Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
boars   100 W

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by boars » Nov 06 2019 7:40pm

That's a fair amount of power :mrgreen:

I thought you'd have to run tubes on a split wheel?
Does the split have some sort of rubber o-ring or something?

Ianhill   10 MW

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 06 2019 7:48pm

The split does have a tube in there but a rubber ring made from tube would seal it up the bolt holes are no issue I think it's just done with a tube so the factory scooters don't get flats from crappy builders messing the seal installation up keep it simple as u can as China does best.

Most I've run is 16s at 58amp on a 1600w brushless and that got to 48mph, the way I've locked this hub down I could push hard no problem id like to get more volts like 20s 5p worth of 21700 molicel eventually and see just how much I can get from one little wheel.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 09 2019 6:47pm

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Couldn't handle the weight so I kept on hacking away with what ever i could find and end up with what I got both plates were over 2kg now they don't weigh 1 kg between them with fixings not bad for hand made.
You got to be clever enough to know what to do but dumb enough to give 20 hours of your life up if all you got is a vice and basic tools but I'm a happy dummy as it's turned out decent and they look like twins good enough into fooling me into kissing the wrong one if it wernt for the disc brake hanger.
Just got to debur and buff them up now I'll get the frame chromed proberly to make it pop I was gonna galvanize it then have it powder coated so just have to twiddle my thumbs on that one.

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ESR_RSE   100 mW

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by ESR_RSE » Nov 09 2019 8:30pm

look like twins good enough into fooling me into kissing the wrong one

:bigthumb:

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 10 2019 1:25pm

Cheers esr I like to use colourful words get my point across.
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Debured polished and looking decent, closely tapeed in place to give an idea of what I'm doing, the odd match fixings for the brake are temporary.

cheapcookie   100 W

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 10 2019 4:11pm

I was just given a red e300 for freeeeeee :D
I have two ninebot ES2 motors, I will try to fit them.

In either case I will want to put wider handlebars by following your guide.
Best/worst case scenario I will put 6384 outrunner with vesc

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 10 2019 4:27pm

cheapcookie wrote:
Nov 10 2019 4:11pm
I was just given a red e300 for freeeeeee :D
I have two ninebot ES2 motors, I will try to fit them.

In either case I will want to put wider handlebars by following your guide.
Best/worst case scenario I will put 6384 outrunner with vesc
Red one never seen an e300 that colour in UK before, get a build thread up let us now how u get on, I'd say the two ninebot motors on vescs be a nice build more torque than a single 6384 but that has gearing choices and higher rpm so sound wicked when u give it the beans, two hub motors be quite whooshy mind u have them on vescs given it what for.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 10 2019 4:35pm

Ianhill wrote:
Nov 10 2019 4:27pm
cheapcookie wrote:
Nov 10 2019 4:11pm
I was just given a red e300 for freeeeeee :D
I have two ninebot ES2 motors, I will try to fit them.

In either case I will want to put wider handlebars by following your guide.
Best/worst case scenario I will put 6384 outrunner with vesc
Red one never seen an e300 that colour in UK before, get a build thread up let us now how u get on, I'd say the two ninebot motors on vescs be a nice build more torque than a single 6384 but that has gearing choices and higher rpm so sound wicked when u give it the beans, two hub motors be quite whooshy mind u have them on vescs given it what for.
how many outrunners have u tried? you had a 6374 running on vesc 6 correct?
Can you talk sprockets and chain choice for the 6374?

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 10 2019 5:04pm

No I've not owned one only seen them in action I think there's around a 8-1 gearing on a 6.5inch wheel and a 144kv if I'm correct somewhere around there, good thermal cooling path is needed mind they tend to warm up a bit more than the hubs.

I've run a hoverboards motor on a vesc and that thing was shockingly torquey on it's own when run with vesc 12s performed real well so the 2wd version u have in mind would proberly be the best longevity wise take a beating.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 10 2019 6:39pm

Ianhill wrote:
Nov 10 2019 5:04pm
No I've not owned one only seen them in action I think there's around a 8-1 gearing on a 6.5inch wheel and a 144kv if I'm correct somewhere around there, good thermal cooling path is needed mind they tend to warm up a bit more than the hubs.

I've run a hoverboards motor on a vesc and that thing was shockingly torquey on it's own when run with vesc 12s performed real well so the 2wd version u have in mind would proberly be the best longevity wise take a beating.
The solid core tires are PIA to swap out and not comfortable to ride... pneumatic is the way to go here, but Ill give it a shot, expecting the scooter to land this week or tonight, will see

Also, my understanding is that motor and battery cages are welded to the platform? I kinda don't want that trash...

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 10 2019 7:14pm

I pulled the tyre of the hoverboard hub motor with 3 wood clamps and then microwaved it to get it back on but I get it's a solid ride not to forgiving.
Not to sure what u mean by motor or battery cages being welded ?

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 10 2019 7:16pm

Ianhill wrote:
Nov 10 2019 7:14pm
I pulled the tyre of the hoverboard hub motor with 3 wood clamps and then microwaved it to get it back on but I get it's a solid ride not to forgiving.
Not to sure what u mean by motor or battery cages being welded ?
Image

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 11 2019 1:47pm

cheapcookie wrote:
Nov 10 2019 7:16pm
Ianhill wrote:
Nov 10 2019 7:14pm
I pulled the tyre of the hoverboard hub motor with 3 wood clamps and then microwaved it to get it back on but I get it's a solid ride not to forgiving.
Not to sure what u mean by motor or battery cages being welded ?
Image
Not alot of ground clearance same as the stock motor occasionally it could ground out on a kurb etc, protects the motor well mind but i get more air in there the rc motors love getting hot specially when geared hard.

Would like to build a chaindrive again but it have to be a liquid cooled motor and controller with billet wheels so it's gonna be stupid cash to make something like that take ages of saving and finding the rite bits cheap as poss.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 13 2019 5:43pm

Ianhill wrote:
Nov 11 2019 1:47pm
cheapcookie wrote:
Nov 10 2019 7:16pm
Ianhill wrote:
Nov 10 2019 7:14pm
I pulled the tyre of the hoverboard hub motor with 3 wood clamps and then microwaved it to get it back on but I get it's a solid ride not to forgiving.
Not to sure what u mean by motor or battery cages being welded ?
Image
Not alot of ground clearance same as the stock motor occasionally it could ground out on a kurb etc, protects the motor well mind but i get more air in there the rc motors love getting hot specially when geared hard.

Would like to build a chaindrive again but it have to be a liquid cooled motor and controller with billet wheels so it's gonna be stupid cash to make something like that take ages of saving and finding the rite bits cheap as poss.
what's wrong with a high quality air cooled motor? like a neu or something

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 13 2019 8:03pm

Never seen the neu motors I'm a big fan of Inrunners like a bit of rpm but it's got to be controlled so the 32 and 44 series motor look ideal on the rim side they max out just right for the gearing on one these wheels 10000rpm with a 8-1 gearing on a 6.5 wheel is around 50mph 4kw is just enough to keep it there so maybe push gearing and try get a 9-1 so it's not giving full torque quiet often at full beans it can keep up then around 45mph and not overheat take a good kicking and be very responsive, I've seen that flipsky top motor is on deal very tempted to get one but it's out my £€$ bracket without saving up I csnt drop £450 on it easily, found some billet rims too I could get and make the hubs over time like I done with the front mmm very tempted to start hording more crap.

cheapcookie   100 W

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 15 2019 2:12am

Do you have a recommendation for a hub motor on the stock dropouts.
My understanding is that there's a few e300 versions.
Also disc brake seems to be an easy mod, some hub motors propose drum brakes, I find disc brakes very comfy personally.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 15 2019 12:00pm

Could use the stock frame no welding, cut the motor bracket out and add 1cm the motor will drop in the centre off the frame then add a torque arm and it's away, there's another guy that's fine this build buy much more simple uses the dropouts and stock battery box.

I've only done it this way cuz I wanted something very different and unique It can be done on the stock frame specially if u can find a 150mm fat bike fork with 1/18th steerer and make a 2wd razor 5kw hub monster or just use a 135mm fork and make a 1wd setup like I've chosen, I want to do around 30-40 mph tops at 50mph I felt death lurking see the signs every nw and then.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 15 2019 1:27pm

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The stock frame and lid can be made to work if u can imagine the original dropouts in place there's even a ruff template to follow from the pic to hang the disc brake but a torque arm would need to be made simple bit of metal that bolts to the frame would do like I originally had.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 17 2019 12:15pm

fitted my battery, perfect fit, over a 1kwh.
Still hesitating hub and outrunner, will probably buy a cheap vesc soon so I can get the thing running the brushed setup.

If I ran it outrunner, I don't want the freewheeling sprocket, I want fixed so I can regen.

Do you have a recommendation for a rear rim with disc and sprocket mount?

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 17 2019 1:30pm

Mini moto wheels use a 3 bolt disc and sprocket using 25h chain or the scooters use t8f chain both are not upto the task of many kw and surviving.

219 go kart chain and sprockets are small and strong but difficult to fit a custom hub is needed and the motor shaft has to have a 12mm d shape but it can be done it's all a potch to get it working together tidy.

That's why I wanted to make new hubs so I could get the right bolt pattern on the rear, 6 bolt disc Iso either side like an oset trial bike so I can use mtb discs on one side and the other oset sprocket carrier, it requires alot of work but the sky is the limit 14kw burst flipsky motor would easily be tamed it would hold the power no stretching of chains etc.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 17 2019 7:10pm

Fork upgrades? all the goped forks seem to be much shorter tubes than the e300.

More importantly handlebar upgrades, looked for SSC stem clamps online... A friend of mine has a bunch of freestyle scooter handlebars, they most definitely have the simpler stem clamps, but will they fit on the ssc clamp? Or do I need a special ssc handlebars.

Also Can I put goped handlebars on the e300? or the freestyle ones are comfy enough? I'm 6feet

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Nov 17 2019 8:15pm

cheapcookie wrote:
Nov 17 2019 7:10pm
Fork upgrades? all the goped forks seem to be much shorter tubes than the e300.

More importantly handlebar upgrades, looked for SSC stem clamps online... A friend of mine has a bunch of freestyle scooter handlebars, they most definitely have the simpler stem clamps, but will they fit on the ssc clamp? Or do I need a special ssc handlebars.

Also Can I put goped handlebars on the e300? or the freestyle ones are comfy enough? I'm 6feet
If your friends bars are cheap and in good condition make some use of them and get to know the differing standards what feels best for you to ride be sure to check as there's oversized bars with 34.9mm outside diameter that's the size you want and need the scs clamp will have the 34.9mm as it's inner dimension and it will fit a 1 1/8th steerer tube.

I'm 6ft and 160 pounds there abouts and this fits my stance lovely,

The forks are a nightmare it depends on the dropout width u need I wanted 135mm and ended up chopping up a fat bike fork but there's ways around it if you can get a good front end, the frint wheel i got was off a grc mini moto real good quality tyres and rims but the hubs are crap for my use so I got a friend to turn a block of alu on a lathe to make me new ones.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Dec 11 2019 4:25pm

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Some of the welding is done I've cleaned up the rear wheel hanger but the front of the frame needs to be cleaned up, I've been pushing to get it all welded up by the weekend so more progress pics soon on the weekend hopefully when it's all together in bare steel.
The following week I'll get it blasted and powder coated then its ready to be assembled xmas week and enjoy fingers crossed have a trail run just before Xmas I'll have to test run at 12s with no bms or charging circuit but that will be sorted by a Bluetooth 8-20s 400amp bms and the connectors are all in place, that I'll sort out new year when cash flow is a little calmer but it's all been accounted for in the measurements so there's no more surprises down the road.

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ESR_RSE   100 mW

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by ESR_RSE » Dec 13 2019 4:54pm

Nice, looking forward to the updates.

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Re: Razor e300 ultra. Technical guide

Post by Ianhill » Dec 14 2019 12:11pm

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Didn't get welding done next week now but still got stuff to do on it I've made a spacer to go inside the front wheel it's dimensions are critical to give support to the bearings inside the hub to large and the bearings don't seat to small and it rattles in the wheel doing nothing so took my time with that one to keep both faces square to eachother and for a handtool job it looks machined there's methods that can give an impressive level of finish even with handtools and time.

Checked the batterys fit no issues there 20ah 12s of graphene cells will see that I'm never short of current even when nearing flat, made sure the angles of the rear cable glands line, a 12mm for the disc brake hose and a 20mm for the motors wires I choose to use 2 glands to stop water creeping past the egg shaped you get from packing the two wires together in a round hole.

All is well everything fits and there's gap at the front of the battery box to feed wires past the batterys on both sides so there's plenty of room to get the cable runs fairly neat with no tight jam spots.

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