Razor E200 Build

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Dec 19 2021 10:34pm

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This is what I bought used today E200 with lead acid batteries that do not work.

From the Razor website
E200 deck is 26x8 with 8" tires handlebar is 25x16"
E200S means it has a seat mount
E300 deck is 26.2x8 with 9" tires handlebar is 25x16 thats the only advantage for the E300 is the 9" tire, which has a longer fork.

Started taking it apart with the battery and controller being easy to take out then had to deal with the mess of wires.

Motor you need a mini flat head to take out the connector blade from the housing, but you need to take the tray out before fishing the wire out. You need to slide the rear brake cable out by undoing the rear brake bolt and slide it all the way out.
Tray doesnt come out because the on/off switch and fuse hit the frame. After taking the hot glue off the fuse I just broke the fuse off carefully, there looked to be threads. The front hole on the casing has a split rubber protective ring for the wires. The motor hole ring is not split. The on/off switch is hot glued slightly, take off the glue with your mini flat head screwdriver and use that tool to and push the top down while pushing it inside out of the tray outward and watch it fly out. The Charge port has 3 pins with a ton of hot glue, take that hot snot off so its just loose as it wont come off the wires easily, dont even try to take it off the wires just be sure it comes off the plastic casing. Connector uses 2 pins out of 3, ones doubled up with two wires, pushes out I just snipped the wires off so I didnt lose the positioning.

My stock 200W controller will either be next to the batteries inside the tray area, or if theres enough room under the decking or
by the front wheel on the upwards tube which will be where all the other larger upgraded controllers will go 500W brushed controller used with stock 200W motor to see how far I can push that motor, then 1500W brushless to the ebike motor.

Version 1.1 will be stock 200W controller with 36V Makita/Ryobi battery pack from Home Depot with casing and pcb taken off that is two packs in parallel, the packs have a series of 9Ah, 6Ah, 6Ah, 6Ah that I only get 750wh out of which is 15ah, so half capacity but used in the winter and 3yrs old now on the ebike. Over the years its amazingly balance with the furthest away at 3.90V the rest is 4.08V at a top charge of 40.20V. Last time I checked it was 2 yrs ago. Its only ever charged to 40.20V in bulk while split, has a custom made parallel harness. 40.20V should not hurt the stock controller, controller only from the battery what it needs and that battery can handle 36V 30A all day long, the stock controller is 24V and 8, 9 amps.

As you can see in the pictures, the 36V battery is raised a bit with the plastic encasing off I won't use the plastic casement. I will raise the decking and install my own 3/8" metal deck because the next step after this is to install my own motor which I havent decided on, hub motor or m.d. There is no need to buy old technology brushed motor, just a waste of time and money.
If I did not have any motors laying around or available to me by friends, then I would look into rc motors with an esc for big power or for 1kw then the 1020my motor rated for 1kw the sellers state varying 500w or 800w. Those wont fit under the deck.

In the meantime I plan on using the stock 200W brushed motor and stock controller for the time being and hope I dont wreck the controller with my 41v freshly charged battery, years past on the ebike I drain it to LVC of standard 36V ebike controller.
I dont think I will break the controller lots of people do 36V upgrades. I should buy a cheap brushed 36V controller with a few more amps, and a few more total watts and see how long that 200W motor lasts before being baked.

I have a professionally built 48V 16ah battery that I will carry in a backpack for this stand up scooter once I have the final setup I want That battery is used on my ebike which will now be for shorter trips.

There are two metal support rail rods that go under the battery. The batteries were barely bigger to slide in the other way which would mean I could use the stock decking. A welder would be handy to have but lose a bit of ground clearence.
I have some 1/4" or 1/2" flat stock metal I will cut and use bolts and washers as spacers. The decking I will make for it will extend beyond the rear wheel for a larger motor to be mounted and some bracing and supports like extending the frame back.

Bus drivers had no issues, the scooter with the handlebars up still doesnt take up much space. A childs stroller takes up way more room then a 13+ kids Razor E300 scooter and its much cheaper then the higher priced scooters. Has anyone been able to buy any rental scooters legally other then stealing them from the middle of the sidewalk blocking pedestrians and generally getting in the way of everyone.



Folding Handlebars

I need to find a cheap and easy way to make the handlebars fold. As it is now, I need a allen wrench to loosen the 2 bolts for the clamp, no big deal but I got an idea if I cut the stock handlebar about 12" up from the clamp and use a heavy duty industrial hinge, fill in the stock tube with solid bar metal to beef up the hinge bolt mount and slide a 3' pipe over both ends and either tape or velcro that pipe so it doesnt move upwards, gravity keeps it down and thats the best solution I have come up with thinking about this build the last couple days.



Scooter Decking

3/8" flat steel thats cut contoured to the frame and does not come back up over the rear wheel but has a square opening for the wheel, keeping the decking entirely flat but going back beyond the rear frame support by about 8" for a motor mount. Have a second piece that is bolted down going over the wheel that you can stand on.

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Dec 19 2021 11:33pm

I messed up the wiring, thankfully Googles got it.

After the sparks flew and I knew I messed up I hooked everything up correctly, bypassing the on/off switch and got a little normal spark then twisting throttle all I hear is click click click and the on/off light turns on but its delayed. I hooked up the charge port to have both black wires connected and to the on/off switch and back to the controller but nothing changed. The blades on the on off are two silver which are the battery and one copper color which is for the charge port black wire with the blade connector. I touched my battery directly to the motor with a small spark and it spun full blast. I fried the controller or it was fried before I got it I may open it up to see any visual damage. I found a spare Yiyun brushed controller thats 36V 500w which is 14A. The Razor looked to be 24V 30A when I looked at the label, which is 30a max 24v is 720w but everything else states 200W, looks exactly like this so my memory is ok for that but not good for taking apart wires. https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/zk2 ... ns-24.html maybe the shunts are shaved or some other limiter has been applied.

The diagram makes things much clearer the circuit breaker integration makes more sense now, I would haven't have known it was placed between the series connection of the battery. The charging port small black wire with big blade was confusing me it all makes sense now. I am not using the charge port.

I hoped I didnt fry the stock controller, but I most likely did. One connector blade of the battery connector is now blackened. I should have labeled and taken pictures while taking it apart. I basically hooked up battery wires to the on/off switch wrong without the gnd wire on the charge port which relays back to the controller which led to something happening, shorting the battery wires when I connected the battery connector and black marks appeared frying something inside the controllerr. The stock setup wouldnt have been fruitful for my needs, but it would have been fun comparing what the stock power and speed was compared to the incremental steps I had planned.

I did knoew that both red wires were suppose to touch to turn on I just didnt know the switch functional layout which I only diagnosed after the sparks flew. My guess of the on off switch having 2 silver blades on it and one copper color blade was either right or wrong, but I connected a red wire to the outer or reverse of what it should have been. The/on off switch was easy to figure out. What was odd is my meter turned on the light for the audio diode test, must be a little amount of voltage the meter uses.


Here is a wiring diagram for the E200, when taking it apart, label everything and take pictures. I knew I should have done that, just like I know to read the instruction manual when I buy a new gadget.


razor-e200-wiring-diagram-v20.jpg
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Going back to the spare Yiyun Tech YK31C controller that came with one of those cheap ebay ebike kits that have zip ties, a bag and a lead acid battery charger.

The easy connectors are
2 big blue/yellow wires for motor means its brushed
2 big red/black wires for battery
3 wire connector is throttle I did not like the little twist action the Razor throttle had.

Label is 36V, 31.5C +/- 0.5V 500W 1-4V www.yiyun.cn
Math is 500w / 36v is 14A
I was able to load that website but when I went back it wouldnt load, YK31C was not listed, YK31A was listed, all in Cantonese.

Is that 36V is for Lead Acid or Lithium came from those cheap ebay kits that come with lead acid chargers. 31.5v lvc means lead acid is max at 14.40v and dead at 10v to 11v it falls off the cliff. While my lithium ion is lvc at 32v on my ebike controller. 31.5v is a tad low on the lithium ion side, but for lead acid falls right in between 10 and 11v at 10.5v times 3 = 31.50v.

Google Translate got me only so far. Neat trying to decipher the graphics, I like solving problem like that every now and then. Cantonese is one of the hardest languages to learn and no foreigner ever becomes a citizen of that country.
I opened up the controller to see what the print on the pcb was which did not get me no where and a slight problem getting it all back together, friction fit metal piece over the fets body.

A link I found was far more useful and solved the problem I had.
https://www.amazon.com/YiYun-500-Watt-B ... B011NNZ5ZW
Wiring:

Battery
Large Red/Black Wires in 2 pin Connector:
Red: Batt +
Black: Batt -

Motor
Large Blue/Yellow Wires in 2 pin Connector:
Blue: Motor
Yellow: Motor
(If motor runs backwards, reverse these wires)

Throttle
Small Blue/Black/Red wires in 3 pin Connector:
Red: + 5V
Black: Ground
Blue: Signal

Key Switch / Ignition
Small Red/Blue wires in 2 pin Connector:
Key Switch Wires (Connected = power on)

Charge Port is labelled on mine
Small Red/Black wires in 2 pin Connector Labeled "Charging Port":
These wires go to the charger port
Red is +
Black is -

Brake light is labelled on mine
Small Red/Black wires in 2 pin Connector Labeled Brake Light:
These wires connect to an optional brake light.

Battery Level - 3 connectors with red/black, this one isn't labelled
Small Red/Black wires in 2 pin Connector thats not labled:
Indicator Light, normally used for throttle LED battery indicator lights
Red is +
Black is -

Brake Safety switch for brake levers to cut power when used
Small Black/Yellow wires in 2 pin Connector:
Brake Safety Switch.
If these wires are connected the controller kills the power output
Normally used to connect to a brake lever switch.


Spare controller I have is 36V 500W which is 14A
Options to buy a brushed controller are 36V 800W which is 22.2A or 36V 1000W is 28A and I will throw a temperature sensor inside the motor to a display on the handlebar. I am so tempted to go with the 36V 1000W brushed controller because they are all $14 as I might want to sell the Razor later on and dont want to bake the brushed motor but a part of me wants to push the stock motor to its limits and dont care if it bakes. Common sense tells me to play it safe and buy the 800W but the other shoulder says go with the 1000W.

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E200 Final Plan.jpg
For the top decking that I stand on, there will be a slight bump to clear the wheel but it will be sturdy enough to stand on it. 2 layers, one for the motor mount and either flat all the way above the battery or make a bump over the battery and a bump over the rear wheel, I havent decided yet. In stock form, the height over the frame to clear batteries is 3cm and I do not know how much of a hump over the real wheel. Weight will add up so I have to be conscience about that. I have a piece of aluminum but I have lots of pieces of steel plate, angle iron, wood.
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This looks to be the same brand controller as mine but his is 800W mine is 500W https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlC7Jv03ZQQ
He upgraded his motor to 300W which is a direct bolt on, removing the kickstand.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EB ... 98a85e0b15
Its not really worth the $50 cost you can see he isnt going that fast, the ebike throttle has some good progressive action versus the on off action of the Razor throttle. I havent come across anyone who went wild and extreme with any higher powered motors, I thought for sure someone would put on a 2kw rc motor with esc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idX3aTUZj30
hub motor with disc brakes, mod frame, welding https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvaPxC1Mu48

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Dec 20 2021 5:37pm

I got it working with the yiyun controller and the battery only sticks up 30mm from the metal frame.

I am looking for knobby tires for the snow, 200x50 wheel some of the us vendors want gold prices for shipping.
A golds fortune for these guys https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/cat ... /?q=200x50
Amazon is all I've been able to find with generic tires with shipping from China and Amazon fulfilled.

Larger fork for larger tire is on the wish list along with larger 9" or 10" rear wheel


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calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Dec 21 2021 8:53pm

razor1.JPG
ebike throttle through the box hole, just controller inside. Battery wires will string out rear hole to back pack.
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Not a good setup
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razor3.JPG
No room for big feet between battery and wheel.
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Copy 18650 Razor_LI.jpg
One could make a battery easily, I would not go 7 but 6P 10S 36v because the battery box curves down to 10.5cm. Middle is only 16.5cm wide. I would also put the controller on the outside where the Razor logo is to help with heat management. Cheap controllers heat up to much with air cooling should help out. Expensive batteries need to be taken care of.
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It is to much work dealing with the battery raised above the deck and making a cover for the rear wheel so I put the battery box back in, with the controller inside and wiring the battery out to a back pack with 10awg silicone wire. This will help reduce the weight when I fold up the handle bars and carrying it into places and I wont be worried about the scooters batteries when its locked up outside. Scumbag thieves are less interested in kids scooters then ebikes, they should be stealing the rental scooters and I wonder what the loss rate is because those batteries are sure interesting.
I took the Razor on 2 of the community city buses that are the same size as the small yellow buses for retards, the drivers never blinked.

That means I have to carry the battery on my back or make a basket to put the back pack in while riding. A backup short distance battery will be nice in the battery box with 36v out of 18650, 25r's for discharge or 35e's for max ah distance. It looks like you can stuff 15ah or more in there out of the square lattice 18650 holders.

36v 500w is not enough power, doing short full throttle runs in the garage the scooter doesnt have enough zippy torque, I have not done a full speed test but top speed isnt a big deal, slow take off means it will get bogged down on any hills the best I can do is a shunt mod on the 36v 500w brushed controller. 750w and 1000w brushed controllers are both the same $20 price which isnt that bad until its wasted on a baked motor. The other 350w motor that fits the Razor linked in the post above isnt much power either. I have the same motor 1000w brand but in mid drive format which is 98mm in diameter, 176/199mm long, weighs 6kg. Latecurtis and Drkguy plays with those kinds of motors, I should get in touch with them for info on 1500w unite motors.

I was going to test drive the scooter with the raised battery today but my foot always caught the rear wheel. I will do a test tomorrow with the back pack battery which I hope will get me by because I rode my ebike today with a flat tire have no spares.

Skippo   10 W

10 W
Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Dec 25 2021 4:59am

Great progress. I replied you on the other post by 911.

I am going with a simpler approach. I got a ecosmart metro with a burn motor a while back. And a nice member sent me his spare motor left from this monster hub motor upgrade. So I got that all running fine.

The ecosmart I brought came with an extra controller and throttle. So my plan is to swap those over to my e200. (Saw that on another build by member )

My e200 that I got for $20 already came with foldable handle I think older model had those. Maybe you can just get one for cheap and take the handle and have spare parts. Most people selling theirs because of dead battery. Both my e200 and e100 I got for free have running motor. I plug them in the ecosmart and they both fired right up.

Also working on adding e100 front brake and tire, got the fork all took apart just need to drill a hole to mount it.
Looks like I am building a Frankenstein razor from 3 different model. :lol:

Good luck to you
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Foldable handle
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Hole marked for drilling
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Wheel and brake off a e100
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Last edited by Skippo on Dec 25 2021 6:02am, edited 3 times in total.

Skippo   10 W

10 W
Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Dec 25 2021 5:19am

Here is the e200 with ecosmart controller and throttle
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=112077&p=1682813#p1682813

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Dec 25 2021 8:25pm

I am putting in a geared hub motor in the back the rear dropouts are 144mm the hub needs 135mm. 16 iso 305 rim with 16 305 2.125 tire and 30mm spokes retains 90 degree spoke angle. take out the one stock motor brace and I have 8 inches from dropout to box.Weld in extra metal at the dropouts No messing around with small brushed motors this brushless hub motor is just to test the theory then its up to 2000w 232mm flanged hub motor 36v 50a https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... b=B4816_GA
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... grade_b=20
Feet spacing on deck is to short extend the rear by 3in a mockup will be done. A few pounds of extra metal welded to the frame so it lasts the tire mounted to rim is 6.75" in diameter
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calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 08 2022 7:37pm

The phillips head bolt holding the #25 gear on the wheel is stripped I tried heating it but ran out of blue bottle propane and using locking pliers did help. The guy in the other thread posted up a motor I am looking into https://www.ebay.com/itm/FEICHAO-6384-S ... ect=mobile the motor is cheap because the sensor is wrong. Might be an out runner 125kv is a good #
Weight: 954g Maximum power: 3280W Maximum current: 150A but what controller esc would I use for something like that because that is the power range I am looking at then the 500w hub motor I spend $100 to lace. Also what gears attach to the shaft its the shaft that spins not the case out runner.
razor e200 wheel with #25 gear.jpg
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Be better to get an out runner and bolt a gear onto it https://wcproducts.com/products/25-sprockets
https://www.vexrobotics.com/25-sprockets.html
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/propdrive-v ... _analytics

Skippo   10 W

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Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 10 2022 2:29am

If you can't get the bolt off maybe consider getting the rx200 rear wheel to replace it. It is much better set up with the gear bolting onto a freewheel like the e300 (which have a lot more option gear) and a disk brake
https://cart.electricscooterparts.com/r ... ic-scooter.

If you only want to run 500w out of that 6374 ebay outrunner brushless motor.
I think any 500w ebike controller will do the trick.

But to get the most out of the motor something like this
https://flipsky.net/collections/electro ... controller

"then the 500w hub motor I spend $100 to lace." What do you mean by this? I saw you have pictures of a ebike hub motor

Skippo   10 W

10 W
Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 14 2022 2:32am

Just run your other controller to see how you like it before making more investment.

Since you talked about making handle bar and add hinge, I guess you can weld which have a lot more option than I do.

Maybe you can use you bike hub motor like he did on the scooter.
Wonder if anyone tried to mount a solid tire directly on it?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=110607.

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 14 2022 10:36pm

The cost I was referring to was for a rim and custom cut spokes.

I have thought about what to do if I was to lace ebike a larger crystalyte hub motor with a 232mm hub flange diameter can fit a 14" iso 298 with a spoke length of 33.6mm I did another screen shot with the paint app, the problem is to keep the scooter level the extended rear frame hub axle dropout has go up 6-8" and back 8-12" and that is not what I want with a large 14" wheel extending way beyond that upwards beyond the handlebar stem mount. I can now focus on using the hub motor to power the razor wheel, which means I have to deal with the bolt I can not undo on the #25 gear so a trip to get propane tank for the torch is in order or I can bolt a bicycle gear to that with a stand off.

I tried to do a scale model of just using a hub motor and it looks very doable, I placed a piece of paper over the monitor and outlined the 8" wheel then added a hair more to get the motor 232mm is 9.12"

The hub with a bicycle single speed will receive a 14-16t freewheel which will power the razor wheel that will need a a bicycle gear attached to it. You can see the big hub motor does not go above the front fixed handlebar stem :thumb: and the foot deck will gain some room with a custom wheel cover.

I have to drum up an idea for braking. :lol: the direct drive can have electrical braking but I need emergency braking capabilities. 160mm rotor is in the pic is a little to large so I will need 120mm https://www.ebay.com/itm/154600526133 and figure out a front brake.

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Skippo   10 W

10 W
Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 15 2022 2:57am

That would be way cool to have a hub motor powered scooter. Maybe the 1st of its kind. And perfect weight balance.

For the brake, from my understanding the brake drum is screw on to the hub. If you can remove it a fly wheel disc adapter like this one will allow you to add the disc easy.
Check out this video:
https://youtu.be/yID1TMHh6iA
Here is the adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254853896427?c ... aMQAvD_BwE

But if you are planning to use electronic brake will is work with flywheel?

Good luck on removing that bolt on the hub. Maybe a soldering iron or a cheap jet flame light is enough to heat it up.

Like I said if all thing fail look into the rx200 wheel. For 40 USD it has everything you needed. A universal 4 bolt flywheel allow many different teeth # gear. And disk brake, new knobby tire and tube.

I did get lucky and found a rx200 for cheap. And after comparing the two. The biggest improvement over the e200 is that rear wheel. Everything else is the same.
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calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 15 2022 10:02am

Well those are great links to get the brake drum off, I would have just taken a grinder to take down the lip to bolt on the disk but I will do the ebay product.

I want this to be as cheap as possible, I did pay more then I wanted for the e200 as the lead acid batteries were no good. I have two motors a small geared 500-750w ezee clone and a 1000-1500w crysltalyte H-rear clone. The e200's rear dropouts are 140mm for the 135mm hub motors axle flats.

A 12" iso 203 will fit the ezee with 17.3mm spokes radially laced
https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html ... 31&cross=0

But with the Crystalyte H rear is to small for 12" iso 203 rim https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html ... 31&cross=0 but needs 33.6mm spokes on a 14" iso 298 rim. I will do a cardboard circle to 298mm for the erd and add 1.5-2" for the tire height and see what is needed, but like I said the e200 will be high in the rear. Which will need steel welded to the e200, I did make a diagram but I must have deleted it.

The 3 circles are 1) ezee hub to scale 2) 12" iso 203 erd rim eye balled 3) tire od eyeballed
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Skippo   10 W

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Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 16 2022 3:23am

I think the configuration from picture 2 is better. You don't want and slanted deck and lower to the ground will feel more stable at high speed.
I don't like standing on my ecosmart it feel too very unstable.

How about you get a used 12 inch kids bike and cut out the back half and use the bottom bracket to mount it in the e200 drop out, that way you can add suspension. And will have brake take care of too. People giving these away all the time where I'm.

The images are from
https://www.atomiczombie.com/

This guy build lot of cool stuff. And Canadian like yourself.
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calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 16 2022 7:45pm

I just did a 1:1 scale drawing of both 12" and 14" and the 12" 203 needs a 6" rise and 14" 298 needs 9.5" rise with some extended rear distance I like the idea of taking a kids bicycle from bottom bracket to rear dropout either keeping the rear triangle or not. I will have to think about that idea because that is a very good idea as it saves steel plate stock I have or buying steel plate stock. The 1:1 scale drawing is just computer paper taped together and outlined the erd then added a bit for rim wall then added a bit for the tire for 12 and 14" and the 6-9.5" offset is in relation to the 8" razor wheel to keep the foot deck level. The biggest problem with using a big hub motor like the crystalyte H series needs 14" 298 is the wheel diameter and carry the razor the same with 12" iso 203. I actually did save a draft to post.

calab   100 kW

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Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 16 2022 7:47pm

Be nicer to use a higher powered mid motor but the offset is to much to line up the chain properly, the hub motors you can mount a tire to the motors flanges would be awesome http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_rea ... /1049.html
Now, there has two rim dimension options 1. 10x2.15inch rim(Matched tire: 90/90-10) 2. 10x3.0inch rim(Matched tire: 130/90-10)
but for that kind of money you could just go with rc motor and esc but the problem there is it wont be using no 36v, 48v, 52v, 72v battery they only really work with 6s and if your lucky 10s for reasonable value. Since the hub laced to rim idea is scrapped I wanted to double check the lacing hub idea, 6" and 9" is how much of a rise in the rear in the stock dropout which just means the hub axle needs to be raised 6 or 9" and offset backwards a predetermined distance.
comparing rims.JPG
comparing rimss.JPG

If anything I could just unlace my higher powered hub motor to put in the e200 if the 500w ezee clone does not work out. If the speed is not what I want because of the smaller 8" wheel I can up the voltage to get higher speed but 40a is plenty for a 26" bicycle but I am thinking I will need 48v maybe 52v, I should just play around with the motor simulator. Now I just have to check out what kind of steel stock I have and the curvature of the e200 and get welding.

36v 40a is 15.6kph not nearly enough that is what I feared but I do have higher voltage batteries.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... s=120&hp=0

48v 40a is better of course 20.3kph
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... GA&grade=0

52v 40a is 21.6kph which would seem so slow on a bicycle as I am used to 25mph.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... GA&grade=0

And I just realized that doesnt account for the gearing change from the 1s freewheel on the hub motor to the gear on the razor wheel I have no clue how to figure that out. Small motor gear to large wheel gear means slow but more torque and large motor gear to small wheel gear means faster speed lower torque. Played around with it some, the gear ratio needs to be 1:1 on a hub motor setup like a mid drive https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... f=20&tr=16

I took a look to see what gears I have for the motor and its not much two 13t 1spd fixed and fw. 19 and 20t is what I can buy.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... f=20&tr=14 https://dnpgears.webnode.com/products-/ ... freewheel/

Skippo   10 W

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Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 16 2022 10:55pm

https://flipsky.net/collections/electro ... controller

You check this controller out yet?
Up to 4-20s 100a. And very small. I think this will work with your battery.

Skippo   10 W

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Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 17 2022 2:12am

So which way are you going.
1) Using the hub motor to drive the razor wheel with chain?
Or
2) lace the hub motor to the smallest wheel possible and use without chain?

Here is the gear ration calculator. You will need the rpm of you hub motor.

https://electricscooterparts.com/motorw ... ratio.html

I read more on the rpm of typical bike hub motor is about 1000rpm so you will want at lease 1:1 ratio to get about 24mph or 38.5kph

Also the freewheel 1 gear you linked is that for #25 chain?

calab   100 kW

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Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 17 2022 2:51am

Yeah there is always one or two of those around but I never seen 20s rc flips is cool. These guys are expensive https://alienpowersystem.com/product-ca ... c/car-esc/ and hobbyking didnt have much above 6 or 8s. I do not like the sound of rc motors esc's and the costs are not cheap, this build is going to be as cheap as possible I have a 2 hub motors one low power one 1-1.5kw a 2-3kw mid drive motor which I'd love to use I just havent placed it to eyeball how off center it would be. If I wanted to blow a grand or two I'd just buy a stand up scooter if theres any real life powered 2kw scooters around that arent $3k.

Well I am still thinking about which way to go, a small 12" rim fits the 500w hub which is not enough power and the 12" rim with a 12" tire is just to large to carry somewhat stealthily in a hockey bag. I was just planning to extend the rear with a bunch of steel plate welded to the razor frame and place the hub motor raised a bit for rear clearance, hub to chain to power the razor 8" wheel but now I need to think more about your idea of using a kids bicycle using the rear triangle from bb to rear dropout that will save me a lot of weight and welding, I havent thought about it much as I've been busy but I will do that method with just the hub motor not laced, will need a really small kids bicycle the problem I can see might happen is the rear dropout on those kids bicycles will not be 135mm.
14" kids bicycle https://www.walmart.com/ip/RoyalBaby-Fr ... e/43280273
12" kids bicycle https://www.walmart.com/ip/Retrospec-12 ... SellerId=0
of course those kids bicycles are given away for free most of the time. I will have to go to walmart to do some measurements then cruise the online classifieds for freebies.

12" will fit the 500w hub motor nice but I dont know the 232mm crystalyte h series.
Spread out the 110mm a 14" bicycle has more then 1 speed 114/120/126mm
dropouts.jpeg
dropouts.jpeg (96.15 KiB) Viewed 804 times

Skippo   10 W

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Posts: 89
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Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 17 2022 4:12am

You shouldn't need to worry about the drop out much as you will need to beef it up with thicker metal to handle the power you wanted and might as well add the bracket for the disc brake. God I really need to learn to welding :D

I don't think 99usd is expensive at all. Common 2000w ebike controller are about 70-130usd depends if you want sin wave or not. And those things are huge. And I am just pointing out because you said the ESC can't use 36v 48v 60v 72v batteries.
If you can just use the battery you got then you save more money there. And It can be program to work with both of you hub motor or any other brushless you might get in the future. Never mind if you already have controller for those hubs.

I'm with you on the cheap as possible approach and use whatever you already have.

Have you tried to use your 800w controller on the 200w motor yet. I will need to get another 36v controller and throttle for the rx200 soon. If you did what do you think about it? Thanks

calab   100 kW

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Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 22 2022 9:38pm

I lost the razor wheel plastic spacers and i havent done anything else with it but look for various bicycle gears I could use to bolt onto the #25 gear. I will cut a piece of steel to bolt to the #25 gear using washers as spacers for the 28t crank gear 4 bolt 76mm bcd turns out its about the same diameter as the razor #25 gear. I could grind the bolt down to get flat sides on it but I will just leave it. For the brake side I like your link about the thread on disk adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/254853896427?c ... aMQAvD_BwE

I have lots of brushless controllers and I might end up rewinding a 30mm wide lamination hub to a kv I want for the batteries I have but its probably just a pipe dream until I see how the 500w hub does. One important factor is when I make the steel cradle for the hub motor I need it to be far enough away that a larger 240mm diameter hub will slide in with no issues.

I found one spacer it seems to be metal 14mm x 34mm which seems to be about 3/8" i.d. I hope a 80 cent 1/2" copper coupling will do.

https://www.mcmaster.com

edit
I got lucky and found the missing axle spacer, it was in a zip lock bag I threw a bunch of the razor parts in. Time to dust off the stick welder and move it to the garage and grind down the paint on the razor frame.

I seem to be missing me compact air pump which was what I was looking for when cleaning the garage when I ran across the bag of razor parts and took a minute to see it in there. I had the razor sitting in the garage upside down with the hub motor still in it, from the axle to the flange of the motor is abut 3.5" I might have to go to a castor store to see what wheels come close because I think I could secure a tire to the spoke holes on the flange but its better to go back to my original idea to obtain proper gearing of the scooter to make power the razor wheel with the hub via chain.


I dont know the rpm to use so I cant really do this https://electricscooterparts.com/motorw ... ratio.html
I know my hub motor is close to the ezee I just dont know its kv.

I have a few 3 speed egh I could integrate. I have an old sturmey archer. I think its very doable with no space added if I put the igh right above the razor 8" wheel then the motor offset in the rear cradle.

Sturmey Archer AW (3 speed) with the chain still installed and I do believe the shifter is somewhere unless I threw it out.
https://sheldonbrown.com/sutherland/CB-IGH-4-aw.pdf
classic 3-speed internal gear hub with gear ratio of 177%
• Gear steps of 33% and 33%
https://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/aw
ear Ratio
• Overall Range - 177%
• Gear 1 - 75% (Gear 2 - 25%)
• Gear 2 - 100% (Direct Drive)
• Gear 3 - 133% (Gear 2 + 33%)

It has a 20T installed so I have to brush up on my compound gearing formulas. The 8" razor wheel will probably have a 28t from a crank, motor can have anything.

Cant place a 2nd gear on the Sturmey Archer so I could just lace it into a 12" or 14" kids rim. Might be a lot better for me.

razor1.jpeg
razor1.jpeg (158.81 KiB) Viewed 679 times



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcLGYsO0l3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2QMDnEIj9M

This is a good one for the shifter cable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHaajDcL_g

Lace a rim into the Sturmey Archer AW 3 speed with the 20t

The first problem I run into is the sturmey archer aw 3 speed is to short but its easily fixed.
I believe I could lace a 12" kids rim into that with cheap spokes and see how it works.

Motor 28t (which is the gear I have on the razor wheel but I am just using it for the motor gear count)
Sturmey Archer 20t to a 20t hub motor gear 52v at full throttle
75% is 15t 28kph
100% is 20t 21.5kph
33% is 26.6t 15.4kph
I like those speeds https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html? ... t=B5216_GA
Sturmey Archer AW 3spd.JPG
Sturmey Archer AW 3spd.JPG (1.06 MiB) Viewed 673 times

calab   100 kW

100 kW
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Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 25 2022 9:06pm

This is all I have, I dont have the shifter or cable or attachement.
sturmey archer chain.JPG
sturmey archer chain.JPG (1.11 MiB) Viewed 669 times

12" iso 203mm wheel is a wheel used by 3-7 year olds bicycles and it needs to have machined sidewalls for v-braking
The sturmey archer aw is 36h and only needs the shifter cable end to attach and a sturmey archer shifter or friction thumb shifter.
This sturmey archer might be the one I took apart as the locking plate to the hub is loose.
I should have about 70mm length spokes, hey I was close https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html ... o1_ro1_w31
I will like this setup better.

Local bicycle store has 12.5" tubes and tires in 2 1/4 and 2.25. I measured the stock razor and its 2" wide but I bet there is a ton more rubber on it then a kids bicycle tire.

https://www.modernbike.com/iso-sizes-fo ... s-and-rims
wheel iso.png
wheel iso.png (102.7 KiB) Viewed 670 times

calab   100 kW

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Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 25 2022 9:45pm

Oh man I really scored, I have 36 74.4mm (measured) 2.62 straight gauge spokes in my box of spokes and they even fit the sturmey archer aw :thumb:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html ... swap=false
I believe the spokes came off a generic ebay 9c with a 20" fat hub motor.

I need a cable adjuster dodad and shifter.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/stu ... parts.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mech ... ifter.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-STURMEY- ... 3671737633
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Sturme ... 3869860372

Skippo   10 W

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Posts: 89
Joined: Sep 16 2021 8:44pm
Location: Orange country California

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by Skippo » Jan 25 2022 10:36pm

So you are going with a 12" wheel vs the 8" razor wheel?
Why do you need 3 speed?
Can that just be done with the throttle?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/c ... smissions/

calab   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1183
Joined: Dec 11 2013 1:00am

Re: Razor E200 Build

Post by calab » Jan 25 2022 11:15pm

I feel motivated to get the project moving along.

Yes lace a 12" iso 203mm rim into the igh sturmey archer aw 3 speed then narrow the dropouts by 10mm on each side to close them in so the smaller igh will fit.

I am doing it because I want the 75% 1:1 and 133% gearing for fast flats or get extra gearing for the hills and I can easily swap out the 20t igh gear higher or lower to suit whatever speed or torque for the hills. I am also doing it because 12" bicycle tubes are $5.99 and tires are $13.99 at any bicycle store. Razor tubes and tires I have not been able to find locally. The razor is only 2" wide tire and I can get 2.25" wide kids bicycle tire.

I found the specs for the aw, flange spoke hole diameter is 3mm. My 74.4mm spokes are 0.2mm off
https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html ... o1_ro1_w31
s.a.a.w.png
s.a.a.w.png (129.29 KiB) Viewed 651 times
Skippo wrote:
Jan 25 2022 10:36pm
So you are going with a 12" wheel vs the 8" razor wheel?
Why do you need 3 speed?
Can that just be done with the throttle?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/c ... smissions/

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