DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

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scoot   1 kW

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Jul 30 2010 9:36pm

wit9000 wrote: Scoot - I posted a basic 8s pack build process earlier in this thread - didn't you pair your cells first, then in series? That's for sure another alternative for folks to consider. There are certainly times I wish I would have done that - just one reason is that I have a CellLog on each of my two packs while you only need one.
Yes I did take the pairing approach to simplify the cell maintenance by half. It is a little more complicated to assemble... but not too bad. Tomorrow, I'll post up (weekend is finally here LOL). I wanted to start off first on cell stacking and deck spacer trimming considerations, then show the pairing approach. BTW, for a "novice", sure seams like you did a mighty fine job of things already wit 8) Hasta manana :wink:

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by hmbab2000 » Aug 01 2010 10:01pm

I'm ready to make the jump.

I'm looking for a source on the batteries.
The pack build looks pretty straight forward.

And the BMS tech is certainly there now.
I'm reading and taking notes in all these threads.
Well, trying...
:(

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Green Machine » Aug 02 2010 3:08am

I can get those battery packs with built in bms's for $200 per 8 amp hour.]

That would mean for 32 amp hours it would be 800 bucks..not bad.

The only problem i am having at this point i would have to buy 30 packs.

If i made this purchase would some of you guys want to get in on it?

How much do you guys figure an 8amp hour hobby city pack would cost?

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by maydaverave » Aug 04 2010 6:32pm

Hightekbikes has a 24volt 10ah battery for 349.00 that looks like its designed to fit in an electric scooter.

http://hightekbikes.com/battery24.html
e-bikekit 50v 9.2ah cellman pack

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by wit9000 » Aug 05 2010 8:16am

I'm only speaking to my Go-Ped ESR Hoverboard experience, but right before building packs from headway 38120 cells I could not find a ready-made pack that met all the criteria I felt I needed. To be successful in the ESR I consider the following to be requirements:

- pack no larger than 11.25" x 3.25" x 3.25" in size (split battery pan will hold two such packs)
- 24V 16 Ah real-world total capacity
- 120A peak discharge and at least 50A continuous discharge capability
- 1,000 cycles before significant performance degradation

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Aug 05 2010 11:58am

maydaverave wrote:Hightekbikes has a 24volt 10ah battery for 349.00 that looks like its designed to fit in an electric scooter.

http://hightekbikes.com/battery24.html
I too have spent an incredible amount of time looking for some plug & play LIFePO4 packs. It's definately good to be looking around, as new pack types are always showing up. In this case, I don't think 4 of the smallest ones of those would quite fit in the ESR pan (too long for one thing), and you would need at least four parllel connected with their small amp rating... and even then I think they will be rather anemic at at only 70 amps continuous (at $1400). Sometimes, once a pack with a PCM like that hits their amp rating it starts dropping the voltage off, so even if the current can peak higher it may not be what we would hope for in total performance. Someone, would have to risk trying them out without more detailed specifications to go by. Looks like they are constructed with some really small cells too. JMO, but for the price of just one of those, one could obtain 20ah with the headways and discharge current is certainly not an issue... it's just the cell mangement approach that remains to be adressed, and I think that horizon is improving as we speak.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by wit9000 » Aug 05 2010 1:22pm

As far as some form of BMS for the high discharge rate LiFePO4 Headway cells, I shamelessly picked up on the advice of others :D about using a smoke alarm along with my CellLogs and constructed a cheap, compact (fits under my ESR scooter deck), audible (loud), and effective (alarms for pack HV & LV, cell HV & LV, as well as high-low deltas) solution.

I changed the CellLog configurations for alarm trigger to test each parameter (i.e. set pack alarm trigger value at less than current pack voltage) and in each case got an alarm. So as far as I'm concerned, there's a viable do-it-yourself approach for LiFePO4s for Go-Ped ESRs until such time as a ready-made alternative becomes available.
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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Aug 05 2010 2:38pm

Nice Witt... so do you have the wires from both alarm outputs (each celllog) paralleled and soldered across the smoke alarm test switch? and no problems? What is that other little black box you have there?

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by wit9000 » Aug 05 2010 3:16pm

Some of my connections are underneath the “BMS” base. The CellLogs, smoke alarm board and 9V battery holder (the black box) are attached to the top of the base with high strength Velcro. I tested the components individually and then went on to parallel the CellLogs alarm outputs and soldered to the “test switch” pins on the smoke alarm PCB. I next repeated tests with one pack and then the other. The alarm was triggered in each case as expected while no anomolies presented on the other CellLog. I haven’t experienced any issues yet from the parallel connection of the CellLogs alarm outputs.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Goped ESR750 » Sep 22 2010 10:57am

was thinking of upgrading my batteries on my ESR750 to four of these packs. To mimic the stock package but hopefully extend the range.

Opinions. http://www.electricwingman.com/product.aspx?product=946

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Sep 22 2010 8:40pm

Goped ESR750 wrote:was thinking of upgrading my batteries on my ESR750 to four of these packs. To mimic the stock package but hopefully extend the range.

Opinions. http://www.electricwingman.com/product.aspx?product=946
Doable, but maybe a little expensive for only 5 amp hours of capacity... probably only 2/3 capacity of fresh SLAs. And all of the cell management stuff could get tricky with those particular cell pack configurations and balance plugs... i.e, connecting two of those packs in parallel and two in series (2s2p... effectively 8s2p). I would suggest doubling the number of cells to get 10ah and to avoid pushing them to their maximum C rate in the ESR. i know of a couple of fellas doing effective A123 upgrades (16ah or more) in ESRs.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Goped ESR750 » Sep 23 2010 10:19am

Im having a little difficulty figuring out what the best set-up would be, where to source the batteries and what ratings I require.

I am planning on making a tempary extentended range back pack utilizing either 8x12v 4ah SLA or 8x 12v 7ah SLA's... This I could knock up for next to nothing using a five finger discount :P ... Im pretty sure Im now where I am at with that... being in a back-pack aswell space isnt an issue, and just be the case of feeding the supply and switching from the internals to the pony pack.

My real issue is trying to source powerful enough and small enough batteries as a permanent replacement inside my board. The space in there is real limited and I have next to no battery knowledge. I would like about 16 mile range on full throttle.

Any ideas on any solutions, I have no problem building the pack itself and am technically minded so should be able to understand on some sort of a level. Just can't seem to find any real solid information in regards to actually sourcing the batteries. Help!! lol

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Goped ESR750 » Sep 23 2010 10:26am

Could I replace my SLA with.. 12V 12ah SLA... And create a spacer inbetween my board?

Will the stock controller and motor cope with the high AH. Also will I be able to charge the batteries with the same stock charger?

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Sep 23 2010 10:46am

Goped ESR750 wrote:Could I replace my SLA with.. 12V 12ah SLA... And create a spacer inbetween my board?

Will the stock controller and motor cope with the high AH. Also will I be able to charge the batteries with the same stock charger?
Yes, yes, and yes. Many do exactly that... that is, use an additional deck spacer with B&B 12-12s. There is much history and guidance on this topic out on the Electric forum of Goped Nation. Makes for one heavy bugger though :? Some have even used a battery selector switch to parallel in another set of SLAs from a go-wagon.

With that said, if you are willing to take on a challenge and embrace the learning required, I would recommend going with 12 ah Headway cells. This thread has a few people that have gone that route with great success. Myself, now that a see a window of available time, am planning on posting up more detail on the "how to" apsects and considerations/options in doing so. Using your original single deck spacer you can pack in a theoretical 24ah worth of capacity.... use 16ah of that routinely without ever over stressing them or have much risk over discharging them.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Green Machine » Mar 26 2011 12:34pm

Ok, so it has been a long time since anyone posted to this thread. New batteries have come available etc.

I think hobby king might be offering a perfect pack to convert a goped esr to lithium:

What do you guys think of this pack, a new pack from hobbycity. 8amp our 22 volts. 30c 6 cells with balancing plug.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=16228

I am thinking about running 2 of these in parallel giving me 16ah.

Also from the same place you can buy a voltage monitor that sets off an alarm if any of your cells get too low:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=10952

whatcha guys think?
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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Mar 27 2011 10:18am

If you're going Lipo, 22 volts (6s) is awfully low for a controller system that gets optimum performance from a 7s lipo pack. Presumably you'll be using an external balancing charger one pack at a time with the packs not connected, other wise you'll need to parallel connect the balance taps on the packs somehow. The CellLog can be used to trigger the ebrake on the controller or a $4 smoke detector, but you'll want avoid leaving it plugged in to your system all the time because it will knock your pack out balance.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Green Machine » Apr 05 2011 6:43pm

Thanks scoot for the info...

When you mean plugged into the sytem...you mean the charger or the goped itself?

I now got the packs and am committed to hooking them up.

If i run it as 22 volt pack, will i just get poor performance or will the goped not run at all? I am tempted just to connect a pack as is.

Otherwise i will sacrifice one pack to get one more cell to make 7s lipo pack.

Has anyone done a lipo conversion on a goped yet?

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » Apr 06 2011 3:47pm

Not sure about a lower voltage limit if there is one for the controller. I have seen 19 volts on my CA before with depleted SLAs and it kept running. The high limit is around 31 volts, and if a pack is higher than that the controller will not trun on. Go ahead and try it on the controller. the lower voltage will seem very anemic compared to the stock SLA batteries. As for the onboard charger, it will be completly useless to you without major modofcations. In fact it will toast those batteries and the maybe your house along with it :shock: . You need a balancing hobby charger or equivelent to charge those packs.

Goped actually has a LIPO varient they sell (expensive), and yes I have read of some DIYs with LIPO (7s). Becuase I am still leary of LIPO, although many probably think unnecesarily so, I do not recommend DIY LIPO conversions for anyone other than highly expereinced folks.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by v_tach » May 11 2011 11:48pm

6S Lipo packs actually works pretty well in the ESR. Comparable performance with the SLA powered version and the stock charger does a good job using something like a Chargery DB8 to keep the cells balanced and managing pack charging. I run a 6s4p (20Ah total) setup in my daughter's ESR. Since her machine stays in econo mode all the time, the added speed capability of running 7s packs isn't missed. The setup was only about $250 and has been bulletproof for almost a year now using a single DB8 and the stock charger. The investment has been well worthwhile making the machine much easier to lift in and out of our travel trailer and she can ride all weekend on a single charge.

The ESR's controller cuts off below 19v. The red light starts flashing below 21v. Because the 6S Lipo packs dont drop off nearly as fast at 21v compared to the stock SLA batteries, you can ride quite a long time with the ESR's red Flux Capacitor light flashing. If the packs are all balanced well, the controller's LVC keeps the LiPo cells above 3v.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by maydaverave » May 12 2011 12:04am

I am running something similar on an izip scooter. two of the 4s 8ah packs you have in series for 30 volts. Its an older model without the high voltage cuttoff. The discharge voltage of these batteries is very flat with almost no voltage sag so I don't think your going to notice much of a power difference between 24v lead vs 22v lipo. I got about 5 mph more though with 8s :D
e-bikekit 50v 9.2ah cellman pack

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by maydaverave » May 12 2011 12:04am

I am running something similar on an izip scooter. two of the 4s 8ah packs you have in series for 30 volts. Its an older model without the high voltage cuttoff. The discharge voltage of these batteries is very flat with almost no voltage sag so I don't think your going to notice much of a power difference between 24v lead vs 22v lipo. I got about 5 mph more though with 8s :D
e-bikekit 50v 9.2ah cellman pack

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Green Machine » May 12 2011 1:40am

Thats exactly what i found.

The 22v lipo actually feels just as quick as the 24 volt lead acid did.

Jump in guys..the lipo is warm! The zippy 8ah 6 cell pack is the way to go...

Trash your old goped batteries and install one of these for an instant transformation in your ride.

This is the best conversion i have done in a while...it took literally 5 minutes to do.

Plug in a cell log and you got your battery management system....hobbyking zippy 8ah 6 cell is the way to go in my book.

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » May 12 2011 6:36am

Well, goes to show how actually trying something trumps conjecture almost every time... hard to argue with success, lol :mrgreen:

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by Green Machine » May 12 2011 11:04am

Scoot its really a great solution...

You would be suprised!

Can''t say enough about it. i would say if anything the goped has better performance with 22 volts of lipo than with lead acid....especially given the weight of the new vehicle is a full 20-30 pounds lighter.

I will post pictures later to show you guys...maybe even a test video if your interested...a friend is borrowing it right now.

Scoot by the way...thanks for all the advice along the way...

E

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Re: DIY Battery Upgrades for Goped ESRs

Post by scoot » May 16 2011 12:20pm

extremegreenmachine wrote:... I will post pictures later to show you guys...maybe even a test video if your interested...a friend is borrowing it right now....
E
By all means, please do. It's the whole point of this thread to consider, explore, and test any battery alternatives in the ESRs :mrgreen: Please be sure to include how all of the details/strategies for charging, LVC, HVC, balancing, controller, etc., is being incorporated :wink:

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