Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional

Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:36 am

Time for my very own, very first build thread!!

The board
2nd hand libre race 102 mountainboard - Paid 85€
I saved money on this, because I'm no experienced rider and I felt like my money could be spent better. However, it's the key to my whole build, because my focus is on being able to remove all of the other parts and put them on another board without any changes. (Will depend on the shape of the trucks I have to admit).

Motors / ESC
I ordered and received 2 2kW 270kv motors and the twin ESC (8s) which Bruno sells as a "package". Couldn't test them yet (waiting on other parts).
Check out the package at http://www.aliendrivesystems.com in the motor / ESC section
The package came with banana plugs on the motors and banana plugs to be installed on the ESC wires. Also some accessories were included (mainly for installing a prop for planes, but also some useful ones!). Also a USB-stick with very intuitive easy-to-use software was included with which you can set up your ESC before riding.

Hobbyking order
I definitely forgot to order some parts (don't you always...) and I hope that I can find them in shops around here.
First of all: WTF 116$ SHIPPING COSTS???? Then again, I guess that can be explained since it's coming from Honkong and weighing about 7kg. One thing that gives me some peace of mind: 580$ is around 441€, which feels like I've just gotten a massive discount ^^ What psychology can do to you...
It'll take some time to get here, since 1 item was in 'back-order', which means they have to order it, before you can order it.
Anyways, here's the list of the part names in my order:

ZIPPY Compact 5800mAh 8S 25C Lipo Pack
Hobby King GT-2 2.4Ghz 2Ch Tx & Rx
HobbyKing 350w 25A Power Supply (220v~240v)
iCharger 208B 350W 8s Balance/Charger
4mm Male/Female Bullet Brushless Motor Extension Lead 150mm
EC5 5mm Connector (Pair)
Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire 10AWG (1mtr) BLACK
Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire 10AWG (1mtr) RED
Turnigy 6mm Heat Shrink Tube - BLACK (1mtr)
Turnigy 6mm Heat Shrink Tube - RED (1mtr)
Turnigy Heat Shrink Tube 14mm RED (1mtr)
Turnigy Heat Shrink Tube 14mm BLACK (1mtr)
Battery Monitor 2-6S
Extra Size Cardboard Box and Packing 183g

Motor mounts
First I had a technician at work make me some truck clamps. They worked very well, but they're far too large and heavy:
ImageImage

I've designed some new mounting pieces which are now in production. They will be made by a supplier of ours at work. The parts will be made in Inox steel and will be lasercutted out of sheet metal. Since the hobbyking order, I told them that there was no rush in lead time, so they promised me the parts in 2 weeks.
ImageImage

I promise you better pictures when I have the pieces! =)
Mounting plate is 5mm and clamps are 8mm in thickness.

Any questions/remarks? Shoot!
I'll keep this thread updated when there's news to share :)

I've got a first question: How the hell can I parallel balance charge 3 8S zippy compact lipo's, when each pack has just 1 pair of power supply leads, but 2 balance leads (4s each)??? I could get a 6-parallel 4s balance board, but then how to connect the voltage supply leads? They have 8s in between them...
Another thing I could do, is make the 2 4s leads into 1 8s lead (I'll have 1 spare wire afterwards). But 8s 3-parallel balance boards are hard to find...
Last edited by Murfix on Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:19 am, edited 8 times in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby torqueboards » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:23 pm

Nice setup. Looks like my similar to my HK order when I purchased too. Pretty neat little mount you got there. It doesn't swivel around the trucks? How much are you selling it for? We can use those on longboard trucks?
Last edited by torqueboards on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Vapology » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:35 pm

Murfix's,

I'm excited to see your build thread up and running! 270 kv? What top speed are shooting for and what's your sprocket sizes/reduction? I opted for the 192kv given that I'm doing a one motor build and I've got some wicked hills here in East Tennessee. Glad you posted the bit about the 8s having two balance leads, this I did not know! That does complicate charging and cell checking. I'm glad you're not in a hurry with the Mach shop, they are either never in a hurry or so slammed they can't keep up with projects. They've had my parts fabricating a mount for almost four weeks now! Keep it up and post pics when you get it going.
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:10 am

torqueboards wrote:Nice setup. Looks like my similar to my HK order when I purchased too. Pretty neat little mount you got there. It doesn't swivel around the trucks? How much are you selling it for? We can use those on longboard trucks?

Thanks :) It shouldn't swivel around the trucks. If it does, I'll put in a grub screw or 2.

Vapology wrote:Murfix's,

I'm excited to see your build thread up and running! 270 kv? What top speed are shooting for and what's your sprocket sizes/reduction? I opted for the 192kv given that I'm doing a one motor build and I've got some wicked hills here in East Tennessee. Glad you posted the bit about the 8s having two balance leads, this I did not know! That does complicate charging and cell checking. I'm glad you're not in a hurry with the Mach shop, they are either never in a hurry or so slammed they can't keep up with projects. They've had my parts fabricating a mount for almost four weeks now! Keep it up and post pics when you get it going.

I'm not really concerned about the speed as I probably won't dare going faster than 30km/h. I calculated that 8s, 270kv, 8" wheels will go 46,8 km/h with a reduction of 4,5:1 and 70% overall efficiency. I'm going to order several sprockets though, so I can change the reduction after test rides.
Yes, I'm really concerned about the battery charging. I read on the HK forum of this product that several people got huge sparks when trying to connect it. On the other hand, there's a youtube video of a guy charging it, and he turned the 2 4s leads into 1 8s lead. There's 5 wires in a 4s lead and 9 in an 8s lead, so you can see 1 extra wire sticking out in the screenshot I've made:
Image
Anyone who charged this little wanker before?

About the machine shop: they are really slammed, by the guys from my work :D I could probably have it tomorrow if I really wanted because laser cutting is really fast. They just take your .dxf file, load it into the machine and press on GO, but there is no point in that as I'm playing the waiting game anyway.
Last edited by Murfix on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby torqueboards » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:16 am

There's usually always a spark if your dealing with the high voltage. You would use an anti spark with your eboard setup and a resistor which would eat the spark. The spark will usually just mess up your connectors and you will have to replace it but that's only after a long time. It's not nice seeing and hearing it though lol. Probably, better to just use an antispark.
Last edited by torqueboards on Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:39 am

I've got an anti spark with the ESC (here's a how-to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQoUcm7okc), but how do you do this at the charger? The spark should be at the +/- wires and not at the balance leads?
Last edited by Murfix on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:57 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby torqueboards » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:47 pm

Good question. The spark when charging doesn't look as big as when doing it on the actual board. Not sure, why so when I get a spark on my charger it's not that bad.

I have no idea. But I'm sure, you can do the exact same thing when charging. Can anyone verify that?
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:52 am

torqueboards wrote:Good question. The spark when charging doesn't look as big as when doing it on the actual board. Not sure, why so when I get a spark on my charger it's not that bad.

I have no idea. But I'm sure, you can do the exact same thing when charging. Can anyone verify that?

Can you verify that nothing happens between the balance lead wires and the spark only happens when connecting the + and - of the battery to the charger?
Do you connect the balance leads first, or the +/- wires?

Also I'm a bit worried, but I'll have to take the 2 4s balance leads coming out of 1 Zippy pack and turn them into 1 8s.
Here's the plan:
Image
Last edited by Murfix on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:51 am, edited 3 times in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Location: Belgium

Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby torqueboards » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:36 am

I usually go ground/positive and then balance port. My charger is usually off to begin with but if it is on I also due the same routine. Not sure, exactly if that's the proper way or not or if there is a better way. I'm no expert so maybe someone with more experience can help the both of us. :)
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:04 am

I'll be soldering anyway, so I'll just put an anti spark wire at the +/- wires on the charger side.

Update: I ordered the sprockets:
45T sprocket
57T sprocket
8T sprocket
11T sprocket
Chain: 1m (hope it's enough for dual!)
5 Connection links
5 inner links
Total price shipped from the Netherlands: 75.6€ (I had to pay extra because of placing a small order...)
Lead time: 2wks
Last edited by Murfix on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby PracticalProjects » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:38 am

Love that Truck mount! really nicely designed, keep it up, id like to see more of your build :)
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:34 am

Thx! ^^

Can't complain about Hobbyking so far: I ordered at 6 Aug, they had to backorder 1 item and at the moment it says "shipped" on the site. When I track the package:
Image
I also got a mail confirming delivery within 8 days! I'm curious...
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:49 am

Tadaa! :-)

The new parts are a bit rough, because I asked for standard finishing (to save money). So no polishing or whatsoever.

The old vs. the new clamp parts:
Image
Image
Image

Will be installing them tomorrow!
Last edited by Murfix on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Location: Belgium

Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby furp » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:16 pm

Gratulations on those man, they look really nice! What are the small holes around the motor for? Something protective or a link between both mounts?
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:22 am

furp wrote:Gratulations on those man, they look really nice! What are the small holes around the motor for? Something protective or a link between both mounts?

Thanks! Exactly, both :-) Since the motors themselves will be spinning, I want to have the option of protecting them. I've got the idea from Spooky1's build.

Today I'm having the new clamp parts drilled, hopefully, and I also hope my sprockets will arrive!
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:23 pm

I'm a fool... I didn't order enough chain...
Luckily I found a local supplier where I can get more of the same :)

Here are the sprockets & chain:
Image
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:50 am

This is how it'll be looking. I just have to add the chain and the mechanics are ready. On these pictures, my mounting plate seems too long, but I've also got some larger sprockets and for those, I'll need this length. My HK shipment is still in customs in my country...

Image
Image
Last edited by Murfix on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby torqueboards » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:02 am

Looks good. Why are they so far out?
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby furp » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:20 am

Looks nice and if you need the space for other sprockets, its got to be that way. I hope those 2 bolts connecting the clamp to the mount will be enough to hold it all in place when you get some vibrations on the system and stuff. I had the bolts of my connection between holey mount and motor mount vibrating their way out about 3 mm until the wheel pulley stopped them, but then again they had no nuts. One or maybe two nuts with those plastic inside will probably hold up well enough.

Looking forward to how you will implement some motor protection. Metal or plastic?
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:19 am

furp wrote:Looks nice and if you need the space for other sprockets, its got to be that way. I hope those 2 bolts connecting the clamp to the mount will be enough to hold it all in place when you get some vibrations on the system and stuff. I had the bolts of my connection between holey mount and motor mount vibrating their way out about 3 mm until the wheel pulley stopped them, but then again they had no nuts. One or maybe two nuts with those plastic inside will probably hold up well enough.

Looking forward to how you will implement some motor protection. Metal or plastic?

Yea at the moment I don't have those locking nuts there yet, but I'm going to use those when the build is final. Those kind with the plastic inside should only be used once to get the maximum 'lock'.

I haven't been focusing on the protection yet.I was thinking some thin bars between the 2 motors and then maybe some plastic case around that to close it. Since the mounting plates are this long, I'm also thinking of putting some components (maybe the ESC) in between them.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Byte » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:12 am

Murfix wrote:I'll be soldering anyway, so I'll just put an anti spark wire at the +/- wires on the charger side.

Update: I ordered the sprockets:
45T sprocket
57T sprocket
8T sprocket
11T sprocket
Chain: 1m (hope it's enough for dual!)
5 Connection links
5 inner links
Total price shipped from the Netherlands: 75.6€ (I had to pay extra because of placing a small order...)
Lead time: 2wks


Where did you buy these? Could you give me their website please?
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:50 am

Byte wrote:Where did you buy these? Could you give me their website please?

I bought them at www.maedler.de
It's a German company (you can switch the website to English). They don't sell to people outside of Germany on the website, but there was an e-mail address for Belgium in their contact page so I mailed them (you should try that, if you're European). I got a reply from a Dutch company which would act as a 'middle man'. Surprisingly, they charged less than the prices mentioned on the website (maybe because they recognized my e-mail address from work and gave me the same conditions).

If you're outside of Europe though, there are better alternatives (check other threads).

Hope it helps
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Posts: 491
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Re: Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien ESC

Postby Murfix » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:19 am

All parts have arrived!

I immediately screwed up one of my batteries >< In a moment of brain short-circuit, I accidentally shorted some cells on the balance lead... There were sparks. The most negative wire's core was molten all the way to it's connection. I opened up the battery and replaced this wire (only this wire). Now I'm having a strange phenomenon:

Cell 1 is measuring 0.06V, cell 2 is measuring 7.56V and all the others are normal at 3.81V. The total pack voltage is OK (8 x 3.81V). How is this possible?? I can't believe that the 2nd cell is actually 7.56V without exploding... I didn't mess up other wires. Heeeeelppp!!
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Posts: 491
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Location: Belgium

Re: [Lipo help needed!] Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien

Postby torqueboards » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:40 am

I wonder, what other people are gonna say too. I'm curious to know. I have a 5S battery that is about (1) 4v (2) 0v (3) 4v (4) 0v (5) 4v. I'd say it's pretty much dead I didn't touch my battery anymore and don't want to risk it. I started buying 5000mah packs instead of the 8000mah since this type of stuff can happen on accident. Rather, buy the cheaper packs and have more of them then just a few of the bigger ones.

I'd get another battery and leave it alone. Or take it apart and replace the bad cell for $10 from HK for a 1S. Although, I have yet to do it. I plan on doing that to my bad pack above. But yeah, that's pretty crazy 7.56V in one cell. Dangerous battery.
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Re: [Lipo help needed!] Build thread: Emtb 8s, 2x2kW, alien

Postby Murfix » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:02 am

It's not just crazy, it's impossible IMO. The total battery voltage is still OK, not like in your pack, where you just seem to have dead cells, so there must be something wrong with the connections. However I didn't touch any others than the one I repaired. Perhaps during the shorting, something else melted... Still I have my hopes up on saving it. Watching youtube 'lipo repair' videos all day and tonight, I'm going for the surgery.
Memo to myself: Screw it, just do it!
1 Apr 2013 - Start pre-engineering my first EV build!
6 Aug 2013 - Ordered all parts for my Emtb 8s 2x2kW 270kv Alien ESC setup.
3 Sept 2013 - All parts have arrived: on to the build!
23 Sept 2013 - First test ride: AWESOME!
7 Feb 2014 - Upgrade finished: 3kW motors, 12S Alien ESC, entire new drivetrain and LED's!
Build topic: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=52390
Murfix
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Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:51 am
Location: Belgium

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