Safety issue

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional

Safety issue

Postby Flexscoot » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:44 am

Obviously, the weak point of scooter/board is the lack of protection, so I am wondering about potential safety issues...
I have some experience with boardriding but the circonstances (milage, protections and level of attention) are probably different from urban transportation.

In almost 2 years of use, I had basically no bad experience, only a small near miss ( front wheel puncture during a turn) but the traffic is not dangerous around my place...

Does forum member have information or experience about personal transportation safety?
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Re: Safety issue

Postby Flexscoot » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:14 pm

Ok, I know that it is not a sexy issue!!

However, beyond legal problem, if there are too many accidents linked to personal transportation, the result will be the same .

Personal vehicles will be banned and not insured anymore... same story than for the skate in the 70'!

That is why I believe that safety issues need to be addressed. So, if someone has information on the subject, he is welcome...
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Re: Safety issue

Postby LEVer » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:18 pm

As long as there is a braking mechanism, I dont think its any more dangerous than ebikes or escooters. Also the board needs to stop and not go into traffic when the rider gets off. I believe this is one of the reason they approved escooters here in CA, the scooter will fall down and not go anywhere when there is no rider. I know its a little unnerving when you read the story about the guy that bought the Segway company died from it. :(
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Re: Safety issue

Postby sk8norcal » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:02 pm

Flexscoot wrote:
Personal vehicles will be banned and not insured anymore... same story than for the skate in the 70'!.


ur refering to the gas skateboards, i presume..
important to note the key difference of gas vs electric...
gas motor is just not acceptable around pedestrians.

gas gopeds had some popularity here in the late 90's, early 2000's
many were sold.
annoying kids would buzz these things up and down the street, (nice to hear one go by at 11pm)
enough people got irritated,
laws were made,
now I don't really see them anymore...

segway seems to have some success in terms of legality.
their users have more $$ power, and they also use the "handicapped" card to their advantage.
http://www.adatitleiii.com/2012/08/busi ... r-segways/
Last edited by sk8norcal on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby Flexscoot » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:58 am

Thanks for your answer...
Are non seated scooter legal in CA? or only seated scooter? (a forum member said that non-seated scooter are forbidden in Germany)
My safety question was about stand up scooters, Eboards, solowheels, orbitwheels, segway..... all "exotic" non seated vehicles different enough from a bike to be suspected to be unsafe (proving the opposite might be difficult)

For instance, segway has some pretty bad safety record but is popular enough now not to be banned at least for rental. If it was used on large basis for commuting, the number of accidents might rise up to a point where it might be banned or discarded by insurance...
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Re: Safety issue

Postby sk8norcal » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:16 pm

somehow i dont believe segway have bad safety record, just more negative exposure when they have accidents...
seems like there are still plenty of segway tours,
i see tour groups in SF, (although they are banned from sidewalks in SF)

recently, I saw some video of rental Ezip scooters in Spain.


here's some links on the laws, focusing on CA/US
(i don't believe there is any difference between seat or no seat)


http://www.electric-bikes.com/scooters/legal.html
http://www.electric-bikes.com/scooters/skateboard.html
http://www.scootercatalog.com/elscla.html
http://www.goped.com/oldsite/html-laws/california.htm
http://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/govern ... ehicle.cfm


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a5.htm


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/scooters.htm
(shows a pic of an electric scooter)
(A motorized scooter may be operated on a bicycle path, trail or bikeway, but not on a sidewalk.) + more on road usage.


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc407_5.htm
(A "motorized scooter" is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, has a floorboard that is designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by an electric motor) (gas motor is referenced also)

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22411.htm
(No person shall operate a motorized scooter at a speed in excess of 15 miles per hour.)


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21220.htm
legislative intent (this part sounds positive, seems to aim at electric scooters)

Motorized Scooters: Legislative Intent

21220. (a) The Legislature finds and declares both of the following:

(1) This state has severe traffic congestion and air pollution problems, particularly in its cities, and finding ways to reduce these problems is of paramount importance.

(2) Motorized scooters that meet the definition of Section 407.5 produce no emissions and, therefore, do not contribute to increased air pollution or increase traffic congestion.

(b) It is the intent of the Legislature in adding this article to promote the use of alternative low-emission or no-emission transportation.

Added Sec. 5, Ch. 722, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000.


anyways, if you read through the laws,
some stuff seems like conflicting statements,
and vagueness separating gas and electric.


euro laws,
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=54934#p819406


regarding safety,
doubt anyone has done any studies on accidents/injuries for standup motorized scooters...
even if there is, i doubt the validity of it.
Last edited by sk8norcal on Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:27 am, edited 3 times in total. View post history.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby LostMD » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:22 pm

For me and the location I live in, Florida, the laws for electric longboards are non existent and so I try to always keep in mind that I am some what of an ''ambassador'' for electric longboards and PEVs in general. The most important thing I will point out is interactions with traffic.
Things I always try and keep in mind when traveling:
 People can be stupid, the second someone gets behind the wheel of a car they cannot be trusted; I do not mean that in any negative way (for most drivers), I just know that a simple mistake on their part could put me in the hospital or even kill me.
• This policy extends to all interaction with traffic
o Crossing the street at a crosswalk
o Riding on a sidewalk that is parallel with the road
o Stop sign
o Roundabouts
o 2-way/3-way/4-way/32-way/whatever-way intersections
Example: You are riding on the sidewalk next to a busy road and someone pulling out of a McDonalds is watching traffic waiting for the opportunity to pull out onto the road. With big-mac or cellphone in hand and both eyes watching traffic, Mr. Driver does not see the pedestrian approaching the crosswalk; by the time you have made it to the middle of the crosswalk Mr. Driver sees the tiny gap in traffic and hits the gas to make it…. Completely oblivious to the pedestrian crossing the crosswalk.
- Even if Mr. Driver has decided to not park his car right on top of the crosswalk like a lot of driver unfortunately do, make eye contact and wait for the ‘wave’ to allow you to cross before actually crossing.

• or areas where traffic occurs or MAY occur
o Empty neighborhood road
o Parking lots
o Sidewalks
o Inside gas stations
o Basically everywhere that is in a 1 mile radius of traffic

- From my experience studying, training and working in the field of EMS, cars can get anywhere and can do anything… They can climb trees, coleman slide, kickflip, they can stand vertical, smash through a wall, get on top of the roof, grind rails…. of a bridge…

I hope you get the point, life hurts get a helmet and ride safe.
And know that no yellow sign stating ‘’Pedestrian Crossing’’ or ‘’Yield for Pedestrians’’ will stop stupid from happening
Traffic: noun – equal to or greater than 1 car
Last edited by LostMD on Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby sk8norcal » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:08 pm

one more,

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21235.htm
(Prohibitions: Operate a motorized scooter without a valid driver’s license or instruction permit.)

that would mean all the little kids riding a Razor or Ezip are breaking the law. :P

Image
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Re: Safety issue

Postby torqueboards » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:00 am

From what I read previously for California. Anything with over 200 watts is considered illegal and would need a motorcycle license. However, riding in San Francisco they are pretty lenient. I have not been stopped and see quite a few cops during the day when riding. I do a lot of riding on the street after work but usually only for about a half mile stretch where traffic is pretty much stopped. I end up riding with some of the bicyclists. Going to work I'm on the sidewalk and the street depends on the street.

For the most part, I give cars the right of way and only ride when there are no cars and/or I'm riding behind the car. If I'm on the side and need to move in I'll signal to the driver. Can get dangerous if your not careful. Rather then being in a rush (usually I am) I try to just let the cars go first. I definitely don't want to get hit by a car or bus LOL.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby whilechukwuzout » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:27 pm

torqueboards wrote:From what I read previously for California. Anything with over 200 watts is considered illegal and would need a motorcycle license. However, riding in San Francisco they are pretty lenient. I have not been stopped and see quite a few cops during the day when riding. I do a lot of riding on the street after work but usually only for about a half mile stretch where traffic is pretty much stopped. I end up riding with some of the bicyclists. Going to work I'm on the sidewalk and the street depends on the street.

For the most part, I give cars the right of way and only ride when there are no cars and/or I'm riding behind the car. If I'm on the side and need to move in I'll signal to the driver. Can get dangerous if your not careful. Rather then being in a rush (usually I am) I try to just let the cars go first. I definitely don't want to get hit by a car or bus LOL.


Torque, your in SF? I keep finding more and more ppl on here who are from the bay area. We should have a meetup sometime.

Back on topic though: personal mobility is a tricky thing. A big part of it is that there is no ecosystem of safety built around it. On the roads you have infrastructure and maintenance to optimize the safety of the transportation, (road signs, stop lights, etc). Even in the car you have things like crumple zones and airbags. Unfortunately the experience on a skateboard or a scooter is not like that. Sidewalks arent regulated, so a crack or a raised block could pop up anywhere and throw you off at a moments notice. You also have to watch out for tree branches lol.

Regardless: wear a helmet!
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Re: Safety issue

Postby torqueboards » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:12 pm

I haven't been wearing my helmet although I definitely should. It's just so cumbersome to carry around. LOL. I only ride about 15-18 mph though. I cruise only about 10-14mph.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby Flexscoot » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:59 pm

Thanks for all the info and feed back (I will read the link more in details).

The only data I have found were thesis about senior scooters accidents....you can't imagine the level of safety issues (simply crazy) and in opposition with the topic of this post, they are not banned ! We should benefit from it as our vehicles are lighter and less powerful !

Agree with sk8norcal that laws are unclear and conflicting but not enforced as we are generally tolerated. Agree also that personal transportation are very vulnerable, branches, dog,...and no passive safety except helmet

I really appreciate the word "ambassador". I think that it is the kind of behaviour we need to have if we want to be accepted.

*for segway, I was not simply referring to the company owner's death but to all what happen when a wheel loose traction (it's a channel on youtube). I agree that injuries are generally not too serious.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby AstroKat » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:29 pm

sk8norcal wrote:http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21235.htm
(Prohibitions: Operate a motorized scooter without a valid driver’s license or instruction permit.)

that would mean all the little kids riding a Razor or Ezip are breaking the law. :P


Just found this when looking up scooter laws. Anyone know if this has been addressed yet? I found this recent bill that deals with motorized boards: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces ... 20160AB604
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Re: Safety issue

Postby Ianhill » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:19 am

_IMG_000000_000000.jpg
Razor e300 ( No front brake 36v )

Sorry for the grim picture to the squeamish but I want all to know just how dangerous these scooters can be, specially the razors in stock form with very little braking.
The rider of this scooter had a compound fracture massive lump on his head and bruises cuts lumps, He had skid out of control on an incline, It is the mistake of a noob with little respect for the ride but that is how most kids ride these things.
It was modded to 36v with 3 × 7ah slas so could reach 22mph max but only had a drum rear brake to skid to a stop the result was the compound fracture that you see in the pic along with bruises lumps and cuts, no rider deserves to end they ride with this its made me think to start wearing protection.
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Re: Safety issue

Postby AstroKat » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:53 pm

Yikes! I'm not at all squeamish and have witnessed autopsies but that makes me cringe... :shock:

Thanks for the post!
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Re: Safety issue

Postby Flexscoot » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:08 pm

Impressive!
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