ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional

ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:11 pm

So my lifelong friend Adriana sees my videos and really likes the idea of flying down the road on her own board..
Ive already made a couple boards for some pals who are tinkerers and can manage to balance charge and plug and unplug, and keep on eye on charges and whatnot.Adri however needs a carefree board.. ride, plug and forget sort of thing...something that never needs tightening/balancing/tinkering.. we agreed a grand was a good price..The board`s name Butterfly...
Welded mounts and motors, locktightened everything... from wheels to trucks to motor screws and grub screws... low voltage alarm, 5200 mah 6 s batteries, hobbyking 150 esc, abec clones, longboard, quanum remote (apropriately painted pink) enclosure and mounted charger... All under a an 18 gauge galvaized steel enclosure.
ScreenHunter_135 Jun. 29 21.45.jpg
galvanized steel enclosure
ScreenHunter_135 Jun. 29 21.45.jpg (55.83 KiB) Viewed 4492 times

Electronics galore...
ScreenHunter_137 Jun. 29 21.55.jpg
electronics
ScreenHunter_137 Jun. 29 21.55.jpg (63.61 KiB) Viewed 4492 times

stealthy look, well at least as stealthy as you can look in pink and violet...
ScreenHunter_138 Jun. 29 21.55.jpg
Stealthy look
ScreenHunter_138 Jun. 29 21.55.jpg (35.73 KiB) Viewed 4492 times

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xxlupoo2lyyaf ... 131721.mp4

The motor is turned on by a xt60 key that turns on the esc, (beetbocks idea if im not mistaken) the battery cell monitor... the charger/balancer is permanently mounted on the board so that it just plugs into the wall power source brick ...IN this manner batteries are balanced/chargerged every time, single cable charging... I tested 4 balance/chargers and none withstood more than a couple hours (some just one ride) on the board.. they are of course not designed for the vibration and shack they receive.. all exept the Hobbyking Imax B6 http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=41635 this one has over 2750 kms straped on my board and shows no signs of slowing down. Batteries are connected to the battery monitor, and permanently to the battery charger. You have to weld the second male extension which is not exactly fun but not really a problem either. The key connects the batteries ground wire to the esc, you use that as the 1st lead that connects to the battery monitor, that way everything turns on at the same time, as well as turns off...
Charging takes about 2 1/2 hours.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xxlupoo2lyyaf ... 131721.mp4
Adri wanted her max speed to be 30 kph so the Hobbyking is set to 80%, and appropriately geared. It gets 12+ km with my 195 lbs so I assume she can expect a decent 15 km range, as she weighs in at under 150 lbs. She wanted a light and stealthy looking board.. Pink as well... enclosure and trucks were painted violet-ish
ScreenHunter_134 Jun. 29 21.45.jpg
Pink 83 mm wheels
ScreenHunter_134 Jun. 29 21.45.jpg (50.51 KiB) Viewed 4492 times

She hasnt ridden it yet.. but im sure she will like it and we'll be seeing here at some point.
Here is a complete lookover of the finished board
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs4l0719iyyrc ... 172548.mp4
I rode 25 kms on it over 2 days and it runs quite nicely (if not fast) and is extremely agile, being so small and light...Here is todays ride on what was a really nice morning...
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PATY/neta viewtopic.php?f=35&t=65384
MIni-motor Build viewtopic.php?f=35&t=56839
Destroyer viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58504
Adrianas Board viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61171
Gargoyle viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61569
Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby JackHMcD » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:36 pm

Looks as good if not better than the boosted. Very professional in look and I like the integrated charger. Quick question, what motor and gear ratio are you using?
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby LEVer » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:14 pm

Where's the Hello Kitty sticker? :)
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby onloop » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:08 am

front wheel drive! cool

thats some hard core leg protection...
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby superpef » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:02 am

Awesome! Have been planing to build something similar for my gf!
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby psychotiller » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:28 am

Good job Beto!
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builds:
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6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=60449
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:28 am

Pediglide wrote:Where's the Hello Kitty sticker? :)

LOL yu are not so far from target..
It will have a cnc'd pink butterfly on the top. and a black hornet on the bottom..
The "hello kitty" themed top .. the 6s kick-push slayer electronic bottom. :twisted:

onloop wrote:front wheel drive! cool

Soooo much better than rear wheel drive, also the inevitable motor/mount crash dynamics are reversed.. it flows, or pulls itself over obstacles as opposed to slamming into them...also feels nice going up the overpasses... braking also feels more controlled and secure as the board noses into the brake, as opposed to skidding

JackHMcD wrote: I like the integrated charger. Quick question, what motor and gear ratio are you using?

83mm clones, 17 tooth motor sprocket 42 tooth wheel gear... the 5060 spins at 270 Kv... 15/42 felt overgeared 20/42 felt undergeared.. Rememeber my riding areas are flat as a pancake... These numbers will be very different for Adri. At under 150 lbs she will probably feel the motor supertorkey.. The current setup on her board is a copy of my Velociraptor board in everything except the wooden board.. and the enclosure.. The motor mounts/ gearing cableing, ESC selection and such is the same. It worries me to change gearings freely, so Im sticking with what works for me, to insure whoever gets the board will have no fuss with it... However for someone who does not dislike fuss in the name of speed/ riding pleasure... id go with the following gearings.
under 150 lbs 17/38
150-200 lbs 17/42
200+ 15/42
The integrated charger was sort of the sell on this... nobody wants to fuss with plugging/unplugging balancing and stuff.. everybody is lazy as shit! :D including me.. it was necesary that after a ride you just plug in the board and allow it to charge and balance, The same with the cell voltage alarm... it has to be foolproof.. Adri does not want to become an electrician... she wants to ride a board without Kicking...

Just got a request for a black one... "Gargoyle".. 6s/42kph/ mounted charger...Just ordered parts, should be ready a week or so after they get here..
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PATY/neta viewtopic.php?f=35&t=65384
MIni-motor Build viewtopic.php?f=35&t=56839
Destroyer viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58504
Adrianas Board viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61171
Gargoyle viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61569
Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby onloop » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:09 am

Yeah i agree..

FWD is good for many reasons...
> naturally offers better protection for motor
> immpossible to pop wheellies from to much torque.

.... is there any valid reason we all shouldnt use FWD?
> maybe if you have a kick and you want to try ollies having the weight at front is not ideal...



I really like your 'keep it simple' mentality.... having everything onboard is such a good way of.keeping it simple for.people.who are not hobby enthusiasts.... you might be interested in my all.in.one balance charge cable for you next build? It was born out of trying to simplify everything.

I also think its awesome you are making other people boards. This process really gets you thinking about design from a different perspective, it forces you to make robust, reliable & optimized eboards..... i think its a great way to drive innovation.

Do you have a momentary switch on the volt meter?
Last edited by onloop on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby verruckt » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:26 am

Another awesome build, beto. Great work!
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby Carbon » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:13 pm

Sweet board Beto. A few quetions: how did you make it so slim? I don't know if it's the camera angle or something but that case looks really thin. The ESC alone is 40mm tall (1.5in). I see that you removed the fan. Did that affect the performance of the ESC?

Also, I have the 150a HK ESC, but mine seems to have a really fast initial acceleration (like I would pull the trigger a little from neutral and it would spin really fast then slower at the correct speed). I guess in the RC world it's called "punch" (maybe?). Does yours do the same thing? I can't figure out how to lower it because the programming card does not give that option.
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby psychotiller » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:42 pm

Just a heads up Beto,
I burned out an Imax B6 charger using my balance charging board. Connected at the time were 2 6s 5000mah packs.
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builds:
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6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=60449
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:49 pm

Hi Carbon
The preset settings of the hk150 suck for eboards.. However with a couple tweaks it rocks. You'll need the card as you cannot program with just the remote...
ScreenHunter_141 Jun. 30 12.28.jpg
front programming card
ScreenHunter_141 Jun. 30 12.28.jpg (61 KiB) Viewed 4368 times

ScreenHunter_142 Jun. 30 12.31.jpg
rear programing card
ScreenHunter_142 Jun. 30 12.31.jpg (66.44 KiB) Viewed 4368 times

set your remote/receiver limits..
0. set to front/brake only setting
1. Increase the timing to the second to last timing or last timing or you'll get an ocasional cogging.
2. Set to lowest punch start , and if you havent done it yet set your transmitter/receiver so that the range of your remote is correctly read...
3. 3% neutral range gives you a smidgeon more trigger space..
4.0 % drag brake setup..
and you should be set. Ive always ridden without the fan.. and havent had a problem so far... no hills here, but its hot all year round...so go figure..
the cables are forced to the battery height, again no problem there so far..
The enclosure is about 28 mm high.. the 2.6 ah 6s batteries being the limiting height factor. The enclosure is 18 gauge galvanized steel. It is held to the wood by through screws. Each individual part is held to the board by a thin 22 caliber galvanized steel strap screwed into the wood as well, so that there is no rattling or movement inside.
Do or Do not. There is no try
PATY/neta viewtopic.php?f=35&t=65384
MIni-motor Build viewtopic.php?f=35&t=56839
Destroyer viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58504
Adrianas Board viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61171
Gargoyle viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61569
Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:57 pm

psychotiller wrote:Just a heads up Beto,
I burned out an Imax B6 charger using my balance charging board. Connected at the time were 2 6s 5000mah packs.


Hmmmm :shock:
Mine has 2772 kms riding on my board. (acording to map my ride) and charges 4 2600 mah 6s batteries...
It has been used almost continuously for 147 days (out of 155 or so...) without a hitch...
Hopefully yours was a lemon... would suck if mine was the exception...
Do or Do not. There is no try
PATY/neta viewtopic.php?f=35&t=65384
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Gargoyle viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61569
Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby superpef » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:54 pm

onloop wrote:.... is there any valid reason we all shouldnt use FWD?
> maybe if you have a kick and you want to try ollies having the weight at front is not ideal...

Naturally we should have more weight on the rear wheels most of the time especially when accelerating, theoretically making the rear truck the better one to be propelled. The chance of popping a wheelie is probably more dependand on truck placement, with most setups almost impossible. I don't know but I can't help feeling like I'd rather be pushed out of a corner and while accelerating than pulled. In the real world however all these considerations might just be irrelevant^^ How did it feel? Just the same? I would love to hear someone who fully and perfectly understands every aspect about the physics of longboarding explain this to us hehe. You're right about the motors being safer from debris. My motors are fine after close to 2000 km's though, the dents in my motors come solely from scratching down curbs.
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:17 pm

My mechanics courses are sooo far back...however as a gut feeling pulling is always better than pushing.. INterestingly front mounts feel coolest when turning corners or carving..
My original minimotor setup was rear wheel, the destroyer was originally rear wheel, and after riding front wheel I would not go back...that said I dont think there is a HUGE advantage either way, nothing to start a fight over :shock: .. also the final distance from batteries and max speeds (in the destroyer's case) were identical in rear and front setups..
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PATY/neta viewtopic.php?f=35&t=65384
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Destroyer viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58504
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Gargoyle viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61569
Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby superpef » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:23 pm

Hm.. Gonna try it :)
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby psychotiller » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:28 pm

beto_pty wrote:
psychotiller wrote:Just a heads up Beto,
I burned out an Imax B6 charger using my balance charging board. Connected at the time were 2 6s 5000mah packs.


Hmmmm :shock:
Mine has 2772 kms riding on my board. (acording to map my ride) and charges 4 2600 mah 6s batteries...
It has been used almost continuously for 147 days (out of 155 or so...) without a hitch...
Hopefully yours was a lemon... would suck if mine was the exception...


Yeah, mine worked like a champ for a few months and then all of a sudden it started reading input voltage error. Now even if it isn't plugged in, and I plug a battery into the charge port, it powers up (which it shouldn't) and says input voltage error.
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builds:
XT Wheels/Custom Hub & mount on Randal 180's/Drop Throughhttp://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=59259
6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=60449
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby psychotiller » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:35 pm

beto_pty wrote:My mechanics courses are sooo far back...however as a gut feeling pulling is always better than pushing.. INterestingly front mounts feel coolest when turning corners or carving..
My original minimotor setup was rear wheel, the destroyer was originally rear wheel, and after riding front wheel I would not go back...that said I dont think there is a HUGE advantage either way, nothing to start a fight over :shock: .. also the final distance from batteries and max speeds (in the destroyer's case) were identical in rear and front setups..


I think I am preferring front wheel drive too. It feels more like I'm carving downhill. I may switch one of my other boards to FWD this week and do a before/after video comparison with a non biased test rider.
www.psychotiller.com

builds:
XT Wheels/Custom Hub & mount on Randal 180's/Drop Throughhttp://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=59259
6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=60449
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby torqueboards » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:35 pm

Nice work beto. You just kept the charger on the board itself? lol

What's the weight of your board?

Ditto for a one wheel front wheel drive as best as well.
Last edited by torqueboards on Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:58 pm

torqueboards wrote:Nice work beto. You just kept the charger on the board itself? lol
Ditto for a one wheel front wheel drive as best as well.

Yup, the trick was getting one that would survive the slamming and vibrations... not to mention the ocasional puddle, mud and grime.
Poor mans 6s 100 amp BMS LOL...
Unfortunately I lost my counter,I was trying to see how many times my batteries would charge/balance using the charger... hopefully psycho got a lemon, this is a seriously well built to hold up to the punishment they go through mounted on a board.. and i want to believe it will last.. however that said Onloop came up with a much better alternative in his all in one powercord. Same single cable connection, but without having to lug the charger around..IDEAL!
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Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby dirkdiggler » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:49 pm

Beto
That girl couldn't just push in a balance plug and the charger into the socket? Seems just as easy to me to use the balance plug. I wouldn't want a charger on board. If I was selling boards, I'd would put that same charger in the kit. My first brushless RC car charged two 2s batteries using a similar charger and I did fine figuring it out. Can't blow up things if you are slow charging like that. Takes forever, but most people don't know any better. My SLAs took like 10 hours to charge on my Altered board.

We had a discussion a year or so back on front wheel vs. rear wheel drive. Can't find the thread. I switched over to front wheel drive on my mt. board due to lack of traction on hills with loose dirt. I also like to be able to look down and be able to see everything to make sure things are working right - no loose belts, sprockets and such. Its easy enough to switch back and forth on a longboard. Never really decided what I liked better. I don't think you get much slip climbing hills on a longboard like you do on a mountainboard.
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:41 am

dirkdiggler wrote:Beto
That girl couldn't just push in a balance plug and the charger into the socket? Seems just as easy to me to use the balance plug. I wouldn't want a charger on board.


Dirk how can you be so insensitive.. she is balance plug impaired!!!! :(
Of course she "could"... but if we can get a single wire, automated balance charging why not? (deep southern voice)..cause that is the way my grand pappy did it? IT rocks to just get home, lean the board against the wall and just watch it charge... it is like magic man.... it's like living in 2020 :D ...

However that said, Im rethinking the charger towards Onloops single wire charger/balancer alternative, which will allow me to leave the charger home but still retain the single wire charging. The charger weighs close to nothing, and has proven extremely rugged, however I agree that if at all possible it should be left at home. It will also allow the enclosure to be roughly 2/3 of the current size.


dirkdiggler wrote: Its easy enough to switch back and forth on a longboard. Never really decided what I liked better.

Yeah i guess it might be up to personal choice.. I dont think there are any real technical or dynamic advantages.. if they are, they are not measurable either in top speed or range...
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Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby onloop » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:14 am

I have been thinking about fwd vs rwd.

So When applying brake i bend my rear leg, lock my front leg, by default this results in weight shifting to the back of board. The reason i do this however is to brace my mass against the force of inertia.... these forces that want my mass to keep moving forwards....

So if the braking force was being applied at the front of board it may actually be less effective as the weight is lifted from the front `slightly` meaning the wheels could lock and start sliding if loss of traction occurs.

So i think rwd is better for braking at high speed. Suppose same applies at lower speed but just not as obvious

So now the opposite happens when accelerating hard.

When i was doing 16m sprint tests, for the motor review vid i recently posted, the only way to stay on the board was to put all weight forward. Locking back leg. This additional weight put forward would be an advantage on FWD. The weight above the motors would be better as it would minimize the chance of traction loss & wheel spin... YES wheel spin is actually possible.... it happened during my testing.... however the ground was slightly wet..... but once you loose traction the only way to get it back is ease of throttle.

So fwd is better for hard acceleration.

......

Fwd offers better clearance for riding up small steps of an inch or so. So motors are better protected against hitting shit.... however does this actually happen enough to be of concern? Probably not.

FWD puts more weight at front of board.... this is not good if you are planning on building a board with a rear kick... the rear kick is a great way of navigating tight turns as you can lift and pivot using the kick.... once again not a major issue.... not many people use boards with a kick...

The other thought i had was regarding steering.(probably only a concern for dual rear or dual front motors)... the trucks that turn the most when cornering probably should not have the motors on them..... longer boards tend to be (in my experience) turned using front trucks more than back trucks. Shorter boards i find you turn more using rear trucks....so my point is if the truck is turning and you accelerate it will impact the turn... as both wheels want to spin at the same speed, however in reality they need to spin at different speeds as they must travel different distances in the same time. So not a problem with one motor.
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby beto_pty » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:52 pm

Agree..
Fwd is not so cool when braking downhill.... other than that it rocks.. :D
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Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
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Re: ADRIANA´S BOARD The Butterfly...

Postby made_in_the_alps_legacy » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:16 am

Hi, any chance to get some power reading of this set up ? I am always curious to understand why we use 150A ESC...
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made_in_the_alps_legacy
10 kW
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