10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Aug 03, 2014 9:58 pm

20ah 10 series which will fit nicely in the pan without the deck spacer
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Pain in the ass getting the wiring to fit inside the motor so I had to use this paint shielded headphone wire
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Just have the sensors taped in for bench testing in the next few days
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I damaged one of the strands of the wiring in the motor while drilling the spots for the hall sensors, I am scared I may need to buy another motor! I saw worse in another post so have my fingers crossed.
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These are the turnigy 5ah cells, the cheapest per watt hour you can get. Total price if I had bought them new would be about $250. Motor, $70. Controller plus accessories $150. Gears $20. Total about $500, not too bad of a deal :D
Current project: 10s 20ah sensored goped hoverboard
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Aug 06, 2014 10:33 pm

Watching this with interest. I'll be doing something similar.... however im going to use an inrunner because im worried about eddy current losses.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Aug 07, 2014 5:31 pm

MrDude_1 wrote:Watching this with interest. I'll be doing something similar.... however im going to use an inrunner because im worried about eddy current losses.
I never even though about using inrunners. Everyone seems to use outrunners. Are you planning on installing hall sensors, the lyne controller I am using requires them.

I have half of the pack built. I ordered some new batteries to finish the other half that I have to open. Going to bench test the motor in a few days and make another post :D
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Aug 08, 2014 1:46 pm

silviasol wrote:
MrDude_1 wrote:Watching this with interest. I'll be doing something similar.... however im going to use an inrunner because im worried about eddy current losses.
I never even though about using inrunners. Everyone seems to use outrunners. Are you planning on installing hall sensors, the lyne controller I am using requires them.

I have half of the pack built. I ordered some new batteries to finish the other half that I have to open. Going to bench test the motor in a few days and make another post :D
The plan is to either buy a sensored inrunner (they make them for RC cars/trucks, but the kV is crazy high) or buy a RC boat inrunner and add halls (proper kV, but I have no idea how to fit them.)
With either one, I plan to put a boat style water jacket around it, like the boats have. This is what lets them run crazy high wattage for extended periods of time.. the windings can easily move heat out to the jacket. For cooling, I plan to use the bottom "spine" tube under the board as a reservoir, and just pump the water in by the neck and let it flow back.. the sheer mass of the water will be enough to cool it for an entire pack run at WOT uphill.
For a controller, I also plan on a Lyne controller... but what one will depend on how big my lipo pack ends up.

basic plan in steps:
1. swap over to Lipo.. between the lipo itself, and the charger/power supply.. thats enough of an investment.
2. build motor/controller combo and bench test the crap out of it.
3. swap motor/controller onto board.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Aug 09, 2014 8:58 pm

MrDude_1 wrote:
silviasol wrote:
MrDude_1 wrote:Watching this with interest. I'll be doing something similar.... however im going to use an inrunner because im worried about eddy current losses.
I never even though about using inrunners. Everyone seems to use outrunners. Are you planning on installing hall sensors, the lyne controller I am using requires them.

I have half of the pack built. I ordered some new batteries to finish the other half that I have to open. Going to bench test the motor in a few days and make another post :D
The plan is to either buy a sensored inrunner (they make them for RC cars/trucks, but the kV is crazy high) or buy a RC boat inrunner and add halls (proper kV, but I have no idea how to fit them.)
With either one, I plan to put a boat style water jacket around it, like the boats have. This is what lets them run crazy high wattage for extended periods of time.. the windings can easily move heat out to the jacket. For cooling, I plan to use the bottom "spine" tube under the board as a reservoir, and just pump the water in by the neck and let it flow back.. the sheer mass of the water will be enough to cool it for an entire pack run at WOT uphill.
For a controller, I also plan on a Lyne controller... but what one will depend on how big my lipo pack ends up.

basic plan in steps:
1. swap over to Lipo.. between the lipo itself, and the charger/power supply.. thats enough of an investment.
2. build motor/controller combo and bench test the crap out of it.
3. swap motor/controller onto board.
Interesting. Adding the halls is harder then I had imagined. You really need a steady hand to drill the spots for the sensors. Finding a motor with wide enough stator spacings would be much more ideal. My motor now has one cut wire from the drill bit skipping and running over the wiring. I can only imagine those inrunners with watercooling are expensive. Hoping it is not a problem or I have one more idea to resolder, resheild, and glue the damaged wire back in place. I chose 260kv just to test out running a low gear/high rpm set up, hoping it will be more nicer to the controller then the problems with the 180kv and below motors.

As for the lipo you will see how I hook a 10s battery together, it is cheap with the cells I am using. I will make a step by step guide in this thread when I open them tomorrow or monday and make the second 10ah pack. You need just 4 packs plus one of the 5ah single cell HK sells per 10ah for 9s. I am using 10s but 9s is ideal as only 9 cells fit with the wideness of the pan. Total price is $240 in cells for 20ah 9s. Or if you use a different battery just make sure it will fit. It is tough to find a correct fit for the pan with lipo with the size of the cells. As long as you do your research it will be cheaper then you think.
Current project: 10s 20ah sensored goped hoverboard
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=62155

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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Aug 10, 2014 4:30 am

Just opened my new packs I need to complete the other half of the pack

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =1&t=62313
Current project: 10s 20ah sensored goped hoverboard
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Aug 12, 2014 6:18 am

For the battery in order for it to fit in the pan and be secure I had two options, use two 5 series packs which would make two separate 10series 10ah packs or connect them all together. I wanted the entire pack to be as one so I came up with this.

Having it this way I would have to have two seperate packs. I didn't want to monitor both at the same time so..
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with the pan shaped the way it is I came up with this
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Using two of these to connect all 10 series 5ah packs
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Between them will have removable wiring so I can easily remote the packs when I want to clean the pan out or whatever
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I ordered the wrong jst connectors to finish this part and the only seller on ebay that has 10 series connectors is in china so I have to wait another week or two before I can finish
Later it will look much more nicer covered in epoxy when I get the connectors.
Current project: 10s 20ah sensored goped hoverboard
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Nov 12, 2014 1:34 pm

Any updates?
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Nov 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Actually last weekend I got one 5ah 9s pack built, 3 more to go. I will be using it to bench test the motor and try figure out how the sensors wires are plugged in. Too cold now up here in MN to ride until spring but I plan to have it ready to go in the next few months. Might ditch the lipo and build a 50 maybe 60ah 10s with 18650 since I assume range will be cut in half doing 35+ compared to 10mph.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Nov 13, 2014 10:34 pm

Bench tested. Works like a dream! Very relieved that this went well. Getting over 8k rpm with the 9s pack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11YUUUF ... e=youtu.be
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Dec 13, 2014 5:32 am

The battery pack. 10 series with 20ah which will fit in the pad without a deck spacer. The black box will be a removable pack that will charge while I am not using it or add about 5-8 amps while riding. The build thread is here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=63623

Image


Image
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Jan 18, 2015 2:58 pm

Motor mount. I will have to keep my fingers crossed just two bolts will be strong enough. Every component is just like it's own 1-2 day job but almost there. Next week I will mount the motor and try pulling 100 or so amps with my rear brake.

Image
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by walls99 » Jan 18, 2015 4:51 pm

silviasol wrote:Motor mount. I will have to keep my fingers crossed just two bolts will be strong enough. Every component is just like it's own 1-2 day job but almost there. Next week I will mount the motor and try pulling 100 or so amps with my rear brake.
You might want to consider a stronger mount and using the 4 screws to secure your motor, especially with current above 100A, this is a lot of torque to hold in place. I have a similar setup and here is what I had to do to secure everything:

Image

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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by Silenthunter » Jan 18, 2015 5:39 pm

Much easier will be to draw in Auto Cad a plate that fits the 4 screws of the motor mount and the plate of the frame. Drawing should''t take more than 10-15 min. After, fast cut on the E-flow (2-3 min) and your are done. It will look like it belongs there and will hold the torque. This way if you decide to place the brushed motor back you will only remove the screws and the plate.

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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Jan 18, 2015 7:30 pm

I was thinking drilling two more holes on the frame and bolt those to the motor thru the frame and mount so then there would be 4 bolts holding it in place. The stock motor had the entire frame circle to support it, this will be just the metal lip which is next to nothing. I will only be testing it at 100amps, won't do much hill climbing or WOT from a stand still. Might go to a guy I know who welds, cut the metal lip off and have him weld a mount to the top, bottom and sides of the circle.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Jan 20, 2015 3:39 pm

silviasol wrote:I was thinking drilling two more holes on the frame and bolt those to the motor thru the frame and mount so then there would be 4 bolts holding it in place. The stock motor had the entire frame circle to support it, this will be just the metal lip which is next to nothing. I will only be testing it at 100amps, won't do much hill climbing or WOT from a stand still. Might go to a guy I know who welds, cut the metal lip off and have him weld a mount to the top, bottom and sides of the circle.
stock motor had the frame all the way around it, BUT relies only on the two small screws on the endplate to keep the whole thing from rotating.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Jan 21, 2015 9:29 am

The circle of the frame will be more then half of the support. The issue will be the brushless motor will want to twist when it pulls the chain so high torque will bend the end piece. I am making a mold now to build a carbon fiber mount to bolt inside the circle and hold the motor using three of the screws.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by Silenthunter » Jan 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Here is how I did mine. I cut a piece of pipe same OD as the tube. Cut under the angle until in fitted in the opening. After, welded all around. But if you cut a piece of aluminium on the water jet than you can match all 4 halls and make it work without welding. Much faster and easier in case you decide to use the stock motor.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by Silenthunter » Jan 21, 2015 7:33 pm

I don't have a good camera...I hope u can see it.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Jan 22, 2015 1:30 pm

Can you send more pictures? I can't exactly see how you did it. I am ditching the carbon fiber since the mold turned out to be crap and I don't want to spend $50 for better mold material. My new plan is 3" aluminum tubing cut to fit into the end of the frame tube and have the mount that is on the frame currently welded to the end of it so it will slide in and out of the frame like the stock motor will. Then just bolt it to the frame just like the stock motor would.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Feb 22, 2015 9:54 pm

You still messing around with this?
I just finished the first round of mods I wanted to do to my goped... One of them was adding a left side rear disc brake... so I had to cut and weld everything up... the stock motor is really only held in by two strips welded to the center tube.

I say, just cut/grind off the motor mount like it was never there, make a proper end piece to mount your brushless motor to (remember to make it a decent heatsink too!) and then weld it in place with some metal strips.
The open air around it can only help.

After I finish lipo-ing mine, I will start on my brushless mods... I am really trying to find two 80-100 motors, but even finding one is impossible.... and yes I know they dont fit in the stock motor mount tube, but at this point its no big deal for me to cut the frame and replace that part with a larger tube. lol.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Feb 23, 2015 9:30 am

Absolutely. I plan on having it ready in a few months when it gets warm enough to ride. Right now I am working on this awesome controller linked below. Has a ton of features and doesn't need hall sensors to get good low speed rpm's. I will have that done in a week or two and have a motor mount being made now which should be ready about the same time as the controller. The battery is completed other then a thing I made to hold the batteries down into the pan which I will post pictures of when I finish it after testing the controller and mount.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=63540

You should make a thread about what you have been making. I have a guy at a welding shop with a cnc machine make my mount. It is a 3" aluminum tube with a cnc cut part(to mount the motor) welded to the end of it. So it slides into the stock motor hole then I will drill a few holes in the circle part of the frame to bold it in place. Not too sure about strength and if there will be enough air flow for good cooling(I may add a fan to the oposite side of the motor). So it will work very well or just a start for a mount I guess.

That motor would be insane. After going almost 30mph with my stock black case motor I really can't see anything more then 40mph safe for me, which I hope my 63mm motor gets me. No hills around where I live so don't need much torque. Back in the day when gopednation was still up there was a guy who must have had that motor on this crazy fast 48v one he built. It had the motor on the opposite side of the frame mount.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Feb 24, 2015 1:40 pm

How did you get a black case motor up to 30mph?
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by silviasol » Feb 24, 2015 2:39 pm

It was 15/76 gearing so I assume that was almost 30. The stock 8/80 gearing is 20mph. I never clocked it though.
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Re: 10S 20ah Sensored Brushless Goped Hoverboard Build

Post by MrDude_1 » Feb 24, 2015 3:50 pm

silviasol wrote:It was 15/76 gearing so I assume that was almost 30. The stock 8/80 gearing is 20mph. I never clocked it though.
stock black can early ESR gearing is 15/76... maxxing around 20, but most people over 120lbs on lead acid see 18 or 19.
8/80 would be almost 50% of stock gearing... maxing you out around 10-11mph.
if you're interested I did all the calcs here in this thread:
http://www.billetboard.com/showthread.p ... -questions

Code: Select all

Stock ratio:	0.197368421									
				As percentage of stock  (aka stock means 100%)						
	Sprocket									
Pinion	56	60	64	68	72	75	76	80	82	98
8	72.4	67.6	63.3	59.6	56.3	54.0	53.3	50.7	49.4	41.4
11	99.5	92.9	87.1	82.0	77.4	74.3	73.3	69.7	68.0	56.9
13	117.6	109.8	102.9	96.9	91.5	87.8	86.7	82.3	80.3	67.2
[b]15[/b]	135.7	126.7	118.8	111.8	105.6	101.3	[b]100.0[/b]	95.0	92.7	77.6
25	226.2	211.1	197.9	186.3	175.9	168.9	166.7	158.3	154.5	129.3

From what I understand, read, and believe, the stock black can motor will overheat and kill itself under the load required for 30mph.

I recently changed to a 11/56 ratio, almost identical to stock(99.5% stock speed), about 19mph fresh off the charger... but I also have a 13t front I could swap on.. that would bump me up to 117% stock speed or 22mph... but I havent tried it yet. Mostly because the unanimous opinion online is the motor will burn itself up at that ratio.. and its only 17% faster than stock. I plan to try it right before I swap to brushless.
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