List of available commercial mini E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by maxwelledison » Aug 27 2015 11:13am

Any word on the VOMO scooter? I saw the pictures Veetron posted several days ago, and those pictures don't suggest to me that anything is going to ship in August. Still a LOT of work to do on that pile of parts. It also occurred to me that nothing in those pictures actually provided any additional legitimacy to this venture. Those pictures were significantly generic enough that they could have really been pictures of any ol' scooter. I'd like to see pictures of actual, finished VOMO scooters. Lots of finished scooters.

Veetron promised another update today. My prediction is that it will mention delayed shipping, while continuing to promise the stars and the moon.

As I originally wrote on August 4, I'm STILL not convinced this was/is a legit campaign. Way too many red flags on this one. I hope to be proven wrong. I really, sincerely do.

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 27 2015 11:46am

We'll so did all the people about the Sondors eBike but they actually delivered. I received mine. Granted it's slow as heck and heavy as heck but I kind of knew that going into it. Going to sell it soon anyhow.

We always hope they'll deliver right. If it's delayed a bit.. That's somewhat expected.

By backing it, I assume the responsibility but hope it doesn't happen.

I'll be keeping an eye out for another update. I hope they do ship :)
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by Vanarian » Aug 27 2015 12:15pm

The VOMO looks like a pile of bulls*** overpriced.

When somebody brags about wanting to make "the best compact EV in the world" he better get ready to back his words. I don't hate scooters but this one I don't like.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 27 2015 2:05pm

As far as compact goes.. The Stary should be nice if it comes out to 9lb board.

VOMO is something like 30 lbs, pretty heavy actually..

EcoReco is overpriced. Basically, the same as VOMO but with less features.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by maxwelledison » Aug 27 2015 5:13pm

Vanarian wrote:The VOMO looks like a pile of bulls*** overpriced.

When somebody brags about wanting to make "the best compact EV in the world" he better get ready to back his words. I don't hate scooters but this one I don't like.
Actually, the first concern I had with the VOMO related to it being underpriced.

They were promising a complete scooter for $349, when the total dollar sum of the parts alone (at wholesale) is around $300 at a minimum*. Samsung lithium battery, controller, hub motor, frame, wheels, tires, disc brakes, programmable digital display, paint, misc parts (bolts, wires, etc.). And presumably the people who assemble all these parts don’t work for free.

I used Alibaba to price each of the above individual components. Here is that breakdown, with pricing that assumes you are purchasing 1,000 of each item:

Samsung Battery: $120
Motor: $60
Controller: $25
Frame: $35
Digital Display: $22
Wheels: $6
Tires: $8
Disc Brakes: $11
Paint: $5 (estimate only)
Misc. parts: $10 (estimate only)
----------
Total: $302

So for parts alone you’re at $300; assuming you’re building 1,000 units. For the apparent 300 or so units Veetron is claiming to build, you can safely add at least 10% to the above prices. Then those parts need to be assembled and, hopefully, QC tested. And if you’re selling these as a business entity, you also need to set money aside for: taxes, permits/licenses, various insurance, general business overhead expenses, salaries for the "team" Veetron claims to have, sales & marketing, etc. (we know Veetron has spent a good chunk of money on paid-placement advertorials.)

In the words of our un-esteemed past U.S. President, "That's fuzzy math." Even ignoring all the other red flags, based on the numbers alone Veetron's business proposition still doesn't add up.

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 27 2015 5:35pm

Yeah, that's a deal to me. $399 for a 36V 11ah Electric Scooter.. The same scooter but less EcoReco M5 sells for $1200+.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by CSN » Aug 27 2015 10:34pm

Check this out

A Marbel board on Ebay with 40 bids and current price is $3,550

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marbel-skateboa ... 23573a5c16

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by scoot-e » Aug 27 2015 10:53pm

First, the Vomo is heavy and doesn't have many features at all, especially compared to the EcoReco (the Vomo 'stole'/copied their folding handlebars exactly) and yet doesn't have front or rear suspension which is a must for higher speeds on small tires especially solid/airless tires like the EcoReco has (not saying they're cheap or the best either...). EcoReco also has a big presence in the US and in major retail e-bike stores and has a great service/support background vs Vomo and it's unknown company in Hong Kong with zero service/support/US presence...so you're comparing apples to oranges really.

Second, your quotes from Alibaba are for retail to overseas customers, Chinese manufacturers get the parts at a 1/4 of those costs especially at scale but yes, the first 100 sales or so are 'loss leaders' to draw attention so Torqueboard and others who jumped on quick got a steal as the prices are now over $700+ shipped for the vomo but at $300something plus shipping it's probably worth it compared to a similarly priced Razor escooter for example...imho

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 27 2015 11:27pm

I don't think the Vomo copied EcoReco. EcoReco is nothing but a cloned escooter from China branded and distributed in the USA.

I paid $399 it's now $649.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by scoot-e » Aug 27 2015 11:33pm

Not sure where you got that info...it's a Taiwanese company related to Patgear and there is nothing in China like their's that they rebranded from...any links? But yes they are Asian based but have a strong distributor channel in San Jose and strong marketing in the US now with sales/support & service if that matters to anyone. I think that's the problem especially with these scooters is yeah you can save a few hundred on cheap sales but do they support it long term, will they be around, can you get replacement parts?...

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 27 2015 11:42pm

True.. I guess only time will tell if VOMO pulls through.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by scoot-e » Aug 28 2015 12:44am

They're going to a lot of trouble to fool people if they claim August delivery from the start which is ambitious and from judging by all the piles of manufactured parts pics they've posted, looks good for ya I'm thinking, and doesn't strike me as shady. Seems like they're making massive progress and are an existing scooter factory in China (which seems to be against the crowdfunding rules for a new design and non existent company but don't quote me).

Curious why you chose to fund it vs other alternative scoots and do you own any now?
Last edited by scoot-e on Aug 29 2015 12:07am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 28 2015 1:52am

Yeah lol.. August delivery..

It was $399. Can't really beat that as far as price goes. Something decent to own for $400.

A friend has the EcoReco.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by Vanarian » Aug 28 2015 5:14am

torqueboards wrote:I don't think the Vomo copied EcoReco. EcoReco is nothing but a cloned escooter from China branded and distributed in the USA.

I paid $399 it's now $649.
This ^ I didn't know previous price was 400$, I only saw 649$. At 349 or 399$ I would agree considering it being fairly priced but yea, when you add taxes, incomes, insurances and everything else around it is quite low price.

BTW Alibaba is a seller's store essentially, so many ressellers and not many manufacturers. This is not the best place to get rates for parts.

I was thinking that it should be compared to the Marble and Stary boards in terms of "best compact etc" and even with Hyena's last bike (it is ULTRA light for a mountain electric bike, even compared with e-longboard standard weights). You can brag about "best" specs only if you back them up IMO.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 28 2015 10:10am

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by maxwelledison » Aug 28 2015 12:20pm

torqueboards wrote:ahh Ha! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vomo ... r#/updates

Delayed 14 days :mrgreen:
Of course!

As I wrote earlier, "My prediction is that it [the next update] will mention delayed shipping, while continuing to promise the stars and the moon."

And they posted more pictures of parts piles that are no closer to completion than they were 10 days ago.

I'll predict the next update will again mention delays, and at that point people will finally start suspecting "something isn't right here." 8)

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 28 2015 1:15pm

And then it will ship to me and then you'll be like :roll: and I'll be like :mrgreen:
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by maxwelledison » Aug 28 2015 3:01pm

scoot-e wrote:First, the Vomo is heavy and doesn't have many features at all, especially compared to the EcoReco (the Vomo 'stole'/copied their folding handlebars exactly) and yet doesn't have front or rear suspension which is a must for higher speeds on small tires especially solid/airless tires like the EcoReco has (not saying they're cheap or the best either...). EcoReco also has a big presence in the US and in major retail e-bike stores and has a great service/support background vs Vomo and it's unknown company in Hong Kong with zero service/support/US presence...so you're comparing apples to oranges really.

Second, your quotes from Alibaba are for retail to overseas customers, Chinese manufacturers get the parts at a 1/4 of those costs especially at scale but yes, the first 100 sales or so are 'loss leaders' to draw attention so Torqueboard and others who jumped on quick got a steal as the prices are now over $700+ shipped for the vomo but at $300something plus shipping it's probably worth it compared to a similarly priced Razor escooter for example...imho
Actually the VOMO has several features the EcoReco lacks, which I believe is the entire point. E.g., air-filled tires, disc brakes, multiple power settings, larger battery, etc. And with those air-filled tires it really doesn't need a suspension. In fact, these tires alone will make the scooter more comfortable to ride than any suspension is able to do. I rode a Curie Phat Flyer SE for a couple years, and it was the same set-up: no suspension but air-filled tires. It's hard to describe how huge of a difference air-filled tires make over solid tires.

I agree, the VOMO is heavy and there's no support for it, and that will be a problem if anything breaks. It will be a "fix it yourself" situation. As for the design, VOMO didn't "steal" anything from EcoReco because the EcoReco design itself is not original. It belongs to Patgear.

As for my quotes, no, those are wholesale. Which should have been obvious by the prices I listed, as I know of no retailers selling 36V, 8.8AH Samsung LiPo batteries for anywhere near $120. "Street price" is usually about 2x that. The figures I published accurately represent what a one-person operation should expect to pay for those items IF they buy 1,000 of them. (BTW, I bought over $400,000 worth of parts and equipment off Alibaba last year, so I know a little about how it all works.).

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 28 2015 3:07pm

Yeah, I think the VOMO is miles away from the EcoReco M5. Tubeless Air Tires, DIsc Brakes, 350W vs 250W, 11ah vs 8ah.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by maxwelledison » Aug 28 2015 3:08pm

torqueboards wrote:And then it will ship to me and then you'll be like :roll: and I'll be like :mrgreen:
Honestly, I don't think you're ever going to see this scooter. There are SO many red flags on this one, it's almost comical people actually gave him money.

BTW, did I mention that the owner of Veetron used a phony name and telephone number on his pr.com press release? I know because I actually tried to call him yesterday afternoon. Whoops.

So he doesn't identify himself anywhere on Indiegogo or his own website, and when he does actually identify himself in one place on the Internet, he uses a phony name and telephone number.

"Sounds legit". :lol:

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Aug 28 2015 3:27pm

Guess, we'll see. I doubt it though. I'll receive it soon.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by scoot-e » Aug 29 2015 12:16am

torqueboards wrote:Yeah, I think the VOMO is miles away from the EcoReco M5. Tubeless Air Tires, DIsc Brakes, 350W vs 250W, 11ah vs 8ah.
Wouldn't call it miles, in fact I'd say they're in the same class and only one exists currently, it has no suspension (and trust me, ride a razor and then ride a full suspension on 8" tires and you will totally see the difference) and is virtually the same weight (5 lbs less without suspension) and both go 20mph and similar range and low power for hills (no hills). Disc vs drum makes zero difference on these small scoots, they lock up and skid either way and are plenty strong and the eco is cleaner lookng not having to see an exposed disc in my opinion but so be it) but I suppose apples to apples minus the suspension and if you get it for under $800 shipped (vs $1200 for eco in the US) and don't care/need/use service/support/replacement parts then it's not bad if/when they deliver. It may be delayed a bit longer but in the end they will deliver, it's not so expensive to make and they aren't paying what call "wholesale" on Alibaba, they go direct and have the battery suppliers build the batt packs from single cells and they are all located in a similar factory area so trust me they pay much less than what you see quoted in English on Alibaba for a typical American customer to buy since those are resellers mainly as you mentioned not the factory itself. But the more scoots the merrier and good to see it pulling a quarter of a mil so far.

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by hillzofvalp » Sep 23 2015 6:05pm

$400 for a scooter with >300Wh? Asking for a lawsuit in so many ways.. I'm going to go have a popsicle now

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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by torqueboards » Sep 23 2015 7:33pm

$498 total shipped to California. I'm still wondering how they are going to ship that pack. I would assume the logical reason would be send by boat first but I doubt they are doing that. Guess, we'll see. Although, it's common practice with as many battery packs shipping out of China that a big percentage of packs are well over >100-140wh.

I wouldn't pay $700-800 for this escoot but $498 is about the price, I would pay.
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Re: List of available commercial E-Scooters/E-Skateboards

Post by hillzofvalp » Sep 23 2015 8:33pm

You can't ground DG ship >300Wh by UPS in the united states.. practically anyways.. don't know about other carriers but I believe UPS is most lenient. If they are doing DHL direct then perhaps they can slip by with that amount of hazmat

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