The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Motors

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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby justin_le » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:36 am

torqueboards wrote:
Ohbse wrote:First in wheel motor skateboard? I think Justin would disagree...

This is far from a new concept, though it does look like a slick design.


First production :)


Ha ha, it's not actually production until they start delivering their pre-paid orders. Given that this is just a kickstarter campaign, and considering the track record for kickstarter campaigns to _actually_ get their product to market with all of the production and manufacturing kinks worked out, I'd say we still have plenty of time to be first in production as well! :P
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Silenthunter » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:05 pm

I would drill and make it drop through.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby mccloed » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:38 pm

I agree.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:50 pm

how efficient will this end up being compared to a using the same motor with the typical 3:1 or 2:1 gearing. With rpm x torque = power, and no ability to get that rpm it's going to have to compensate for lack of rpm with more torque and that sounds like amps.
Justin did you do any comparisons with your 1:1 board vs a geared for amp draw?
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby justin_le » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:44 am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:how efficient will this end up being compared to a using the same motor with the typical 3:1 or 2:1 gearing. With rpm x torque = power, and no ability to get that rpm it's going to have to compensate for lack of rpm with more torque and that sounds like amps.
Justin did you do any comparisons with your 1:1 board vs a geared for amp draw?


Without gearing you need more motor/magnet mass to achieve the same efficiency under load. If you account for this, then the efficiencies are comparable going up hills, and even better on the flats and at light loads since there are no belt/transmission losses.

But if you ran the identical motor, in one case in direct drive and another with a gear reduction, then for sure you would see more amperage draw and less efficiency with the direct motor arrangement going up hills. At low loads, the direct drive would still be better because of no transmission losses and (more importantly) because of less than half the core losses too, as a result of the motor spinning at less than half the rpm. So over the course of a trip though, you usually burn through more Ah going up the hilly bits than on the flats, giving the geared setup an advantage. Over a typical trip the geared down drive would have a lower net Ah consumption than direct coupled if you use the same motor, but in practice you wouldn't do it that way, you'd spec the motors accordingly.

The result is very much like the geared vs. direct drive hub motor debate, where in the end DD motors wind up being about twice as heavy as a geared hub for similar torque output, and get better mileage with some types of terrain (flat and fast) while getting worse mileage on the slow steep hill climbs. There's no clear winner, both are viable with their respective pros and cons.

Personally, I don't mind a somewhat heavier motor in exchange for the shear mechanical simplicity and beauty of coupling to the wheel with no transmission. If someone's objective is the absolute lightest board, then there's no doubt the belt drive reduction is the way to go. If cost reduction is the goal, then a belt drive makes sense too, because motor materials (copper and rare earth magnets) are much more expensive than timing belts and pulleys, and if you can trade the former for the latter then you should. If efficiency is the goal, it could go either way.

I'm not sure what others with eboards are logging for their energy consumption, but we're usually getting about 10-11 Wh/km with the direct drive eboards going at 30-35 kph cruising speeds riding in traffic with associated stop and go. Pretty similar to an ebike.

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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby 777arc » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:04 am

I think in-wheel motors have a clear place in DIY, but not as clear in a commercial board. For my build I spent $80 on a motor, $20 on a wheel, and $150 on the alien drive motor mount and pulley system (did not want to weld). So take away the mount and pulleys and I would have been glad to spend $250 on a similar performing motorized wheel.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby agraham » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:58 am

777arc wrote:I think in-wheel motors have a clear place in DIY, but not as clear in a commercial board.


I would think removing the belt would greatly reduce maintenance and increase reliability which would be huge for commercial boards.
Also getting the motors into the wheels gives you more flexibility in terms of board design and also they are somewhat protected against knocks.
Of course the motors are now subject to all the forces wheels have to take so you probably lose some reliability there.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby whilechukwuzout » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:30 pm

one must also consider drive train losses in a belt driven system.
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The monolith- new hub motor E-board!

Postby BShady » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:43 am

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inboard/the-monolith-worlds-first-skateboard-with-in-wheel

I just saw this on kickstarter. It's just like Jacobs hub motors but they seem to have it down and done.

They are selling it for about $1000 USD which isn't to bad.

TECHNICAL SPECS

Top Speed: 24 mph (mobile app adjusts top speed anywhere between 7mph and 24mph).
Battery Range: 10 miles (LiFePo4)
Board Weight: 12 lbs
Max Rider Capacity: Tested to 250lbs
Drive System: Manta Drive® In-Wheel Direct Drive Technology (Dual rear wheel drive)
Braking System: Electronic Regenerative Braking
Throttle Control: RFLX Remote or Vision - Mobile App
Connectivity: Bluetooth Low-Energy
Wheels: 79mm
Charge Time: 90 min
Batteries: Swappable - never wait to ride
Battery Cycle Life: Over 1,000 full charge cycles (Easily Replaceable)
Deck Material: Lightweight Composite
Deck Flex: Stiff - designed for speed and stability
Deck Dimensions: 37" long (94cm) x 10" wide (25cm) with a 13mm-9mm concave for front and back foot (respectively).
USB Connect: charges remote, mobile phone, or any USB device

It actually looks like they got onloops idea of a perfect deck (looks like carbon fiber with a top hatch access) and amazing controller (just not 2.4gh) with Jacobs hub motors.
They only thing they don't have is vedders ESC!!
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Re: The monolith- new hub motor E-board!

Postby 206monkey32 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:51 pm

They look pretty cool. I have thrown down for one. I'm going to attempt my hand at assmbling my own first with some big differences in specs.-
single outboard motor and drivetrain
li-ion pack (theirs looked like a lipo)
I figure the first build will give me some ideas for mods on theirs if needed.I have a feeling i know where my paychecks will be going the next few years.....ive got the bug :shock:
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby snickster » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:24 pm

The guys from inboard just released a video update about the monolith on kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/in ... heel/posts

In the video they also show how their hub motors work, I do not really get it completly but maybe this is interesting for you guys especially for the hub motor project!
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby LEVer » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:55 pm

Hehe, I love how the real uphill is like 50 yards away. Do you guys think there's a stator in that wheel? :mrgreen:
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby torqueboards » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:27 pm

The idea of the hub motor and their design is nice.

Looks like they're using a Nyko Kama.

DIY Hub Motor - DIY Geared still preferred. I was thinking of getting one but every time I think about it again. I realize it's the same thing.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby KyleOrr » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:46 pm

I know Justin mentioned 10-11 WH per Kilometer. But what kind of efficiencies are you guys seeing with Jacobs hub motors?

Monolith states 12 miles on "eco mode" with 95Wh (7.9 Wh per mile / 4.9 Wh per Kilometer), this seems CRAZY high. That is double the efficiency of a boosted board and even my E-go (which I think is over promising at 18 miles) is only at 13.8 Wh per mile.

How can their hub motors be really that much more efficient? Or is this just marketing?

It seems like rolling resistance and rider aerodynamic drag make up much more of the power requirements than the low level of friction on a well designed belt drive ( I can easily kick push my e-go just like they do in the monolith videos)?
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby torqueboards » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:45 pm

We haven't tested them just yet. should be soon.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Hightower » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:13 pm

This board looks sweet! Then again so does the boosted board (or at least so does their advertising campaign)...

Some quick thoughts from yours truely:

- Every component on this board is made by them....so very little customization with wheels, deck, battery, transmitter, esc, most things...

- Hub motors remove the ability to customize torque and speed. You get what you get, and that's about that...

- Hub motors will be inherently smaller than a belted motor due to the limited space to fit inside of a wheel. Comes with 79mm wheels?...meh

- No kick?

- Inboard partnered with Hydroflex board makers....Hydroflex decks are craaaaazy expensive

This board is definitely something to get your typical Apple products fanboy excited, as they seem to cater to the same crowd as the boosted board. Its hard to say without a fair comparison though, but I feel like the ride would be lackluster for what it's worth.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby sk8norcal » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:27 pm

Hightower wrote:- Every component on this board is made by them....so very little customizing wheels, trucks, deck, battery, transmitter, esc, anything...


aren't the trucks off the shelf?
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Hightower » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:42 pm

Yeah sorry, too busy hate mongering. I couldn't find that info on their page, and I must have missed it in the video too.
Either way, its probably not a game changer for someone who's really interested in the board.

But I spotted this....must be Paris
Image

Ill edit my previous comment to prevent the spread of misinformation.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby chuttney1 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:07 pm

Hightower wrote:Yeah sorry, too busy hate mongering. I couldn't find that info on their page, and I must have missed it in the video too.
Either way, its probably not a game changer for someone who's really interested in the board.

But I spotted this....must be Paris
Image

Ill edit my previous comment to prevent the spread of misinformation.



That is indeed Paris' logo.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:41 pm

what they end up selling when they finally start to produce them could be something else. The truck with the motor could be unique since it's still not explained by them, or the one person on this forum who claims to know their "ingenious" method to lock down the stator.
Maybe they don't know yet
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby LEVer » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:51 am

Heard it from the grapevine that this won't be available until January, next year....conservatively. Well, you know where to get your Hub motors if you want one now. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Szogs » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:18 pm

Really? At least 4 months later than the planned end of September 2015? They are climbing the walls over in the Marbel Kickstarter. Mellow Drive gave themselves a year... Let's see.

Pediglide, you've got the market cornered! :-)
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby torqueboards » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:40 pm

I'm sure there will be more people before the year ends who are not seen or noticed.

Eboard hub motors are getting more and more popular.
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:44 pm

Surfrodz said they were working with two organizations on hub motors. The variation in the designs will be interesting.

I'm hoping to sell them to everyone here for the cost of manufacturing and shipping as soon as...maybe tomorrow they will quote me. I've got about 5 businesses that I go back and forth with and 2 of them say they're almost ready to quote me a price.

Was just looking at peri's on ebay. The seeming only downside to Peri's are that the thane is glued on and when it wears down you'll have to cut it off and re-glue another on there. Or maybe he's developed a way to switch the thane. Or maybe that's not even a problem. The fact that his are practically off-the-shell materials and therefore so cheap makes it a hard product to beat. I'm going to do my best to under-sell everyone and should be easier since I wont be making any money. :twisted:

Hub Motor Assy - Inner Flange V3.PDF
(173.71 KiB) Downloaded 83 times
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Re: The Monolith: World's First Skateboard with In-wheel Mot

Postby onloop » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:19 pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote: I'm going to do my best to under-sell everyone and should be easier since I wont be making any money. :twisted:



I can't tell if you are joking?

I completely disagree with this mentality, It is just a crazy idea mate, I assure you it is the best way to guarantee your product / design fails quickly!

Take BUBBLEGUM BOARDS for example. He had a great idea, a nice product and decent branding, he also had some business savvy to make something happen... but I believe he moved to quickly, didn't factor in how much work is involved and the associated costs, failure rates, meeting customer warranty expectations and general business running costs.

If you, or your future business are not financially capable of offering some (depends on product failure rates) customers 100% refunds on products they are not happy with OR because they are faulty, whilst still having enough capital in the bank to keep pumping into product development all whilst buying & holding enough stock to actually sell to your customers to raise the revenue you need to continue NOT to mention pay some tax to the GOV.... You will not exist.

If you want to be a service to the community you need to 'EXIST" if you don't neither does your product. Early Failure is a major disservice to your early adopters.

I seriously don't think people (consumers - your potential customers) expect you to work for free and if they do expect this they are not worth having as a customer.
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