Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by onloop » Mar 07 2015 10:03pm

There is lots of talk about making an all in one carbon fiber deck at the moment, with universal sized cavity for mounting components, what would be your ideal design?


lets start the discussion.... submit your sketches.... list the challenges... the feature you want


JACOB & I both proved we can work effectivly with the community & make things happen in reasonable time frame with the VESC project... this could be a viable next project.

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 07 2015 10:05pm

I'm in. I do want an open enclosure which can be opened to swap/change batteries.
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by melodious » Mar 07 2015 10:14pm

A hand grab on the rail sides pretty please.
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by beto_pty » Mar 07 2015 10:22pm

Battery switching is my only request.. I want to be able to ride 3 hours on sunday, and not have to lug my 4 boards along...

not too flexy....wiimote capable...Vesc capable...10s 10ah batts...

Choose my own trucks... 98mm abec capable... hubbed motor/geared motor capable...

Carbon fiber Matte Black...
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 07 2015 10:31pm

Can't forget. I want a kick tail but that just might be me.. A kicktail is ridiculously useful. Nice foot spot on the rear also but that kicktail accomplishes it.
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by onloop » Mar 07 2015 10:35pm

torqueboards wrote:Can't forget. I want a kick tail but that just might be me.. A kicktail is ridiculously useful. Nice foot spot on the rear also but that kicktail accomplishes it.

i also like a kicktail, i grew up riding boards with a kick... its hard not having one now...

but also i just think it makes riding easier, lifting the nose to avoid cracks/rocks... also really tight cornering at slow speed... lifting the nose to change board direction is really fantastic for manoeuvrability

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 07 2015 11:22pm

Yeah, kicktail comes very handy. I switch to a longboard deck with no kicktail right now and everyday I ride it I dread not having a kicktail handy.

Could I always add one of these to a carbon fiber deck. The same UHMW material from slide pucks on the tail to not prevent destroying the carbon fiber tail.

Image

I think we also need a universal 2.4ghz handheld remote. :) Here's Marbels newest controller. Using a slide pentiometer similar to E-go's.

Image
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by onloop » Mar 08 2015 12:46am

Yes... A nice remote for us to use is a must... . But the qty we need to buy is ridiculous... So we should leave that discussion for another thread.

So here are some design challenges that we need to face.
1. The cavity size. We can't really force everyone to use the same battery.. But we also cant build a strong light weight carbon deck if we are just using guess work..

The most common batteries people use are lipo. But I think the 18650 batteries are the way to go... But they all must be custom made.

2. the shape. I doubt we will all ever agree on this. It's very personal. But the deck I really like is the earthling superglider Image

3. Instrument panel. Somewhere to mount ya bits... Switches. Voltmeters. Usb ports. Whatever you want. So i think the best option is a blank piece of aluminium so that individuals can mod to suit there required instruments... So position of this panel is an question. Top of deck in case people want to install Lcd display as well as switches. Or underneath out of the way.

4. The battery hatch / lid. Top or bottom? Personally I think top is best. Then the bottom is completely sealed from water & dirt etc.

5. A solid built in hole for security locking purpose. Like that thing they have on laptops. Think it's called a Kensington lock. Image

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 08 2015 1:11am

1. Cavity size/Shape
The earthwing deck is pretty nice. The tail is longer than usual but not too bad.

2. Instrument Panel
The idea of the instrument panel is a must. I suggest perhaps using something like an ABS plastic square which can slip in. Easily customizeable and comes cheap. Could make a new one with snips and/or even drill into it with a regular drill. Making your own cut outs on aluminum for the average joe is a bit of work.

3. Battery Hatch
I like the top for the hatch. No point in flipping the deck over if it's already top side up. No worries for batteries falling out underneath the deck since only the top opens. It's quicker to pop the top up as well. You can have a lip with velcro that hte top sits on top of and/or a slide or lock hatch would be nice too.
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by bandaro » Mar 08 2015 8:15am

1. Will always vary. This is a major difficulty, because some people like to run 10s10ah packs, others only need 6s5ah, and want to swap over. Either way, you will exclude the large pack users or have a much larger deck/cavity than needed.

2. Shape. I say a nice strong concave with microdrops would be best. The board needs to be as versatile as possible, as good an all rounder as you can get it. Regarding the kick, you can pop a board with a minimal kick around tight corners, so it doesn't need to be a really big thing, but some kick is a definite.

3. Again, everyone runs different components, so the size choice needs to happen. Making it something that Joe can mod at home is a good option, drill a few holes, use some double sided tape/velcro and you're good to go.

4. I'm going for top, leaves the bottom more clean, and I believe the board stronger. However, would strongly disagree with a snuggly fitted and velro-ed patch that you can pull off for battery swaps. If you ever do some standies (or any slides really) the force you exert across the surface of the grip is considerable, and I think both the time delay, padding and strength of the velcro here would be a significant issue. Especially if the rider is switched off, cruising downhill and speed checks, or slides while powered. Using velcro also removes the top surface as a structural component.

5. Gotta leave it somewhere right?

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 08 2015 4:08pm

I've been talking to a few smaller longboard shops and a few have expressed interest in building an all in one deck as well.

Any ideas on compartment size?

I was thinking of a 36" or 38" length deck that has a kicktail and a long wheelbase for added compartment room.

I suggest about a 9.75" width and perhaps about 7.5" to 8" width compartment and being 18" long.

Ability to use both geared/belt drive setups and hub motors.

The question is... do we want to add the option to use All Terrain Pneumatic Wheels with our setups?

If that is the case. We would need something similar to Evolve's setup.

Image

What do you guys think?
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by onloop » Mar 08 2015 5:30pm

Personally I think a skateboard with all terrain wheels needs to have a deck built specifically for it.

Trying to make one deck that is good for both wheel types is possible but will result in a deck that I would not be completely happy with.

The deck that I found suited the large wheels is the ibach from bustin boards Image

I think we should focus on making the street deck first.

When you have the larger wheels you ride rougher terrain and it's really nice to be able to lock your feet into a deck with large drop.

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by onloop » Mar 08 2015 5:43pm

Heres an interesting train of thought.... Mayve we should stop trying to design a deck.... Maybe we should make the entire deck a battery... So basically you are riding a battery with trucks and wheels attached. The ESC can live in the kick.

So actually we are not designing a deck at all... The deck is actually nothing more then a single battery case that looks like a deck.... So we are just designing a battery that looks like a deck.

This method of approach kills two birds with one stone...

Because if we just build a deck, as an empty shell to hold stuff... People still need to design a battery to fit...

So let's just make what we all need... A massive battery with trucks & wheels.... That looks like a deck.

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by beto_pty » Mar 08 2015 9:10pm

Massive battery would be minimum a 10ah 12s that can be connected as 6s 20mah just by swapping the xt60 series connector for one in parallel allowing the use of the 6s series escs as well as the Vesc or 12s Favorite... would need a bms installed as well as single port charging.. Also 18650 seem as easy to swap as batteries on a flashlight... would have proposed the long lipo series from hobbyking but they discontinued them...

Also this is not the everything board.. it cant be street, mountain, race board... street board first.. the rest will come on their own..
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 08 2015 9:30pm

First focus is street board?

I personally prefer a street board for city/street riding. It's definitely much more precise than an all terrain. I'm not a fan of the bouncy rides.

Update - I actually think I like the option of having an all in one - pneumatic or street board.
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by psychotiller » Mar 08 2015 10:20pm

Here's an aluminum deck I was working on. I'm on a job right now that has left me little time to even check emails. Carbon fiber is the way to go, but I thought these pics might offer some inspiration.
Belly Racer bottom.jpg
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Belly Racer lid.jpg
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by chuttney1 » Mar 08 2015 10:23pm

onloop wrote:Heres an interesting train of thought.... Mayve we should stop trying to design a deck.... Maybe we should make the entire deck a battery... So basically you are riding a battery with trucks and wheels attached. The ESC can live in the kick.

So actually we are not designing a deck at all... The deck is actually nothing more then a single battery case that looks like a deck.... So we are just designing a battery that looks like a deck.

This method of approach kills two birds with one stone...

Because if we just build a deck, as an empty shell to hold stuff... People still need to design a battery to fit...

So let's just make what we all need... A massive battery with trucks & wheels.... That looks like a deck.
This itself is possible. A whole deck just made of batteries. Sealed and encase. Just like the Tesla Models using the floor of their car as a great way to put the batteries and somewhat eboards decide to do. Of course some issue to look at from an engineering perspective is the balance of forces and the possibility of flexing of the deck may damage the batteries if the frame is not stiff. Assuming one cell went bad, it would very expensive to replace...

In the simplicity of things, it would be best to use common battery formats and build a board with space for 10S to 12S depending on the length and width of the board...

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by torqueboards » Mar 08 2015 10:43pm

psychotiller wrote:Here's an aluminum deck I was working on. I'm on a job right now that has left me little time to even check emails. Carbon fiber is the way to go, but I thought these pics might offer some inspiration.
Looks great. How much does it weigh?
chuttney1 wrote:This itself is possible. A whole deck just made of batteries. Sealed and encase. Just like the Tesla Models using the floor of their car as a great way to put the batteries and somewhat eboards decide to do. Of course some issue to look at from an engineering perspective is the balance of forces and the possibility of flexing of the deck may damage the batteries if the frame is not stiff. Assuming one cell went bad, it would very expensive to replace...

In the simplicity of things, it would be best to use common battery formats and build a board with space for 10S to 12S depending on the length and width of the board...
I assume the packs wouldn't be swappable in this case. Sounds like a good idea. I am also wondering what about forces and if a longboard drops.
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by frankham00 » Mar 09 2015 12:33am

Needs to be stiff and long for stability at speed (I'm pretty tall and a short deck is not fun) Needs a kick too. Kick is super useful. Like the battery from the top idea. Does anyone know ballpark figure per board for a 1st run batch??

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by 777arc » Mar 09 2015 1:19am

bandaro wrote:1. Will always vary. This is a major difficulty, because some people like to run 10s10ah packs, others only need 6s5ah, and want to swap over. Either way, you will exclude the large pack users or have a much larger deck/cavity than needed.
Is an overly large cavity that bad? It won't add to the weight or overall size of the board, and you can always add padding to fill empty space. Just need to make sure it fits all the common battery configs.

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by melodious » Mar 09 2015 4:14am

onloop wrote:Heres an interesting train of thought.... Mayve we should stop trying to design a deck.... Maybe we should make the entire deck a battery... So basically you are riding a battery with trucks and wheels attached. The ESC can live in the kick.

So actually we are not designing a deck at all... The deck is actually nothing more then a single battery case that looks like a deck.... So we are just designing a battery that looks like a deck.

This method of approach kills two birds with one stone...

Because if we just build a deck, as an empty shell to hold stuff... People still need to design a battery to fit...

So let's just make what we all need... A massive battery with trucks & wheels.... That looks like a deck.
:lol: Imagine the massive range! It'll be the Stealth/Phasor/Raptor/Nyx of the Eboards!

The cavity only needs to accommodate a battery style. The two major players are the RC Lipo & 18650 configs. Maybe there is a way to design the cavity to make both camps happy? I think you'd have to prioritize the RC packs as the bricks aren't as customizable in shape as 18650s.

I've no problems if I have leftover space in my cavity. You could always fill in the rest with lightweight vibration dampening stuff, like a windbreaker & gloves :lol:

I understand that having the ESC as close to the motor is better for electrical efficiency, but is the tail really the best place for the ESC? You'd really need some kind of skid plate to keep it protected. I could see myself doing a curbside drop without enough speed and hitting it :oops:
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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by higrade » Mar 09 2015 10:31am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jfr_IFz2E

Seven part diy carbon fiber deck build maybe we can contact him do a group buy for him to develop a mold for the community then we group buy the carbon fiber to build the board.

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by matty_x » Mar 09 2015 7:21pm

The Earthwing Superglider is one of the sickest shapes I've ever ridden. Love it at speed and when just cruising. So +1 on the Superglider.

A potentiometer-style controller would be very welcome. The hardware components would be fairly simple to prototype. I'm imagining a pot similar to the ones used on mixing boards. But the PCB would be a challenge for me. Analog to digital conversion, need a decent power source, and a radio to communicate with the receiver (I'm assuming Arduino). Perhaps this could be a separate thread?

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by drmacgyver » Mar 09 2015 8:10pm

RE: Controller

Triggers > thumb sliders/joysticks! It feels much less natural using my thumb than it does my index finger on a trigger. And I'm assuming it's because the human index finger is way more articulated than our thumb. Greater articulation means more sensitivity when operating the throttle - and having more control over the throttle is obviously a good thing. I also think there is far less chance of your finger slipping off a trigger than a joystick/slider.

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Re: Community Project - All.In.One CARBON FIBER DECK

Post by onloop » Mar 11 2015 2:20am

So i spent sometime working out the most batteries that you could realistically fit into a deck. The deck i used for the model is an Earthing superglider...
note: I would probably need the help of a composite materials engineer to confirm if it is strong enough

so I've got 80pcs of 18650 cells, inserted from the top, this is a 10s8p pack.

Using a high quality 18650 cell like LG He2 or Samsung 25r this pack could output 160A continuous or burst of 280A. It would have a capacity of 20AH (740Wh). .. this pack would probably cost about $700 from a battery factory.

So you could ride non-stop for approx 74 kilometers... or non-stop maybe 3-4hrs... i have not factored re-gen, so you could expect maybe an extra 30-40 mins.... of course no one would ever ride non-stop for this amount of time... so this setup would probably last most people an entire day, or maybe two.

Also because so many packs in parallel it would probably be suitable to use cheaper Chinese brand 18650 cells... the continuous output current would be less, but still suitable... it would be 80A continuous output and only be 17.6AH (651WH) which is still more than enough... the cost of battery would be much less. maybe like $400

the total weight of this board built, with trucks wheels & dual motors would be about 8.5kgs.

With hub motors it would be under 8kg so around 17.5pounds

the deck would probably be about $300

so with cheap chinese batteries total of about $700USD for a battery & deck combo that lasts all day!



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