Looking inside a Boosted Board

agraham

10 W
Joined
Feb 23, 2015
Messages
78
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
Went by Grin Technologies today to try Justin's awesome weight-sensing board (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=49557&start=100#p1017625) and Justin popped open my Boosted Board so we could have a gander at what's in there...
rvG0dwpijJNkoSCYPybcM_FaWGGwVG9fRvxzCe0O-iw=w411-h308-p-no

Justin opening the battery box
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The box lifted off the board. They've gone all out completely wrapping the cells in a plastic box - looks pretty tough. We couldn't get a look at the cells without breaking the waterproof seal around the edge.
medium_boosted-cell-block.JPG

But here's an idea of what we would see. I took this from the Boosted blog
GtbPvznNk1nQx8Fh2KtHRP147kpWt2SHtnw_ieH-ifs=w413-h308-p-no

The 100Wh LiFePO4 pack on the scale.
V_BR4ZxO-5t1VEvMAVh6DC_uZKikDMy2vUrJScZeMLg=w413-h308-p-no

An equally powerful LiPo on the scale. Justin has some awesome ideas for how to integrate this little guy as an optional add-on pack to double my range on days when I'm doing more than commuting. I'm super excited about this so stay tuned.
*edit* this pack is not LiPo but Li-Ion I believe
9NLzb1koJv6qFYKtJ8C4cTH-D_ZnsuBqy1G8RMxBNTc=w414-h311-p-no

And here's the controller. Justin took the time to explain to me a lot of what's going on here which was great but it will come out all garbled if I try to repeat it here so I will let Justin give the lowdown.
 
sami said:
great stuff! thanks for sharing the pics. must have been scarey for you popping it open :)

A little bit. I'm only five days into the one year warranty and technically I just invalidated it. We have not yet begun to hack tho, so soon the warranty will be well and truly gone. Just said "don't worry anything we break we've got the tools and parts to fix right here" how true.
 
Yeah man, thanks for doing this. It's great a great help to us.

I'd like to see the sensors on the motors. I could be wrong but I believe it's optical and located at the shaft's end.
 
:D Is this a sign that Grin and company may be heading into the Eboards business? I'm kinda eyeing at those nice 25R packs.
 
Haha, if you have questions, just ask! Actually, I'll be in Vancouver next week for work - want to meet up?

Pediglide, motor encoders are hall rotary encoders, not optical.
 
skdoo said:
Haha, if you have questions, just ask!

Cool.. you may be opening the floodgates here tho...

What's the two thin wires coming from the battery? Temperature sensing?

What gauge of wire runs to the charging connector (i.e. how much current could safely be put through there?)

What exactly are the cells in my board?

Would you be willing to sell me another battery box complete with cells and if so how much?
Would you be willing to sell a battery box without cells and not yet glued together and if so how much?

What's the worst that could happen if I took out the truck spacers? Leaning over as far as I can and sticking my fingers underneath it feels like without the spacers the outrunners might just barely touch the protectors you have over the braided wires when under the hardest of carving - but that would be a rare event for me so I would periodically check to make sure that is not happening.

What's the worst that could happen if I replaced the 75mm wheels with Orangatang 80mm Kegels? I would have to shave down the inside centimeter of the rear wheels in order to fit within the sensor shrouds so I know I would lose a little bit of grip. I presume that increasing the diameter by 7% would cause a 7% loss in torque? Is there any way to make up that loss? If I added a couple washers inboard of the rear wheels in order to reduce the amount of wheel I have to shave off would that mess anything up?

I've been trying to use the Konami code to access the double-secret-ultra-pro-level-five but I can't make it work. Need help with this.

skdoo said:
Actually, I'll be in Vancouver next week for work - want to meet up?

Definately! I work 9-5 by BC Place stadium and I live across the Cambie bridge by city hall. Justin's workshop is sort of equidistant from both. If you want to ride we could go for a sedate cruise around Stanley Park or along the beach downtown or one thing I've been meaning to do is go to the Seymour Demonstration Forest which has a nice smooth road running through the forest which is closed to cars. I'm at agraham@agraham.ca
 
boosted offers 1 year warranty???
man, no wonder they are expensive.
how often do u ride the board? if u rode 5 times a week, 4miles per ride, and it still lasted 1 year, thats a pretty reliable board!
 
tung256 said:
boosted offers 1 year warranty???
man, no wonder they are expensive.

Sorry my bad that is wrong. People who kickstarted or who bought when it was $2000 had their warranties extended from 90 days to one year. People like me who bought after the price was reduced get six months.
 
Battery wires are power, ground, and two for serial.

The charge current is limited not by the wire gauge but by the BMS charge circuit.

Cells are A123.

What do you want a spare battery for? :)

Truck spacers are needed for drivetrain-deck clearance. Heavier riders will compress the bushings more than lighter ones, so we had to err on the conservative side when setting it up. I would recommend keeping them.

You could put Kegels on there, but as you pointed out, you'll lose torque and it won't all fit together quite right. Doing it right means a new pulley, new belt, modified sensor cap, etc.

I'll email you to set up a ride next week. Stoked!
 
agraham said:
tung256 said:
boosted offers 1 year warranty???
man, no wonder they are expensive.

Sorry my bad that is wrong. People who kickstarted or who bought when it was $2000 had their warranties extended from 90 days to one year. People like me who bought after the price was reduced get six months.

Yeah having a real warranty is way different (cost and logistics) from having people fix it themselves.
 
skdoo said:
What do you want a spare battery for? :)

There are lots of great reasons to use a tough box with LiFePO4 pack as you have, and I want to keep that setup for my daily commuting, but the range on the weekends is absolutely killing me. Something has to change like pronto. Some ideas I'm mulling with Justin's help:

- tap the power wires and run a connector outside the battery box. Velcro a Li-Ion pack to the bottom when I need double range - I understand that the chemistries, voltages, and discharge profiles of the two packs are slightly different but Justin feels it would work fine as long as they are only plugged together when in use.
- as above but with an identical set of A123s - could even velcro a second Boosted battery box right behind the existing one - it's a bit chunky to have in the middle of the board where the flex causes it to drop low so I'm not sure if this would work - I weigh 185
- velcro on extra pack and plug it in with a 90-degree connector to the charging port - not sure if this makes sense - would the motors draw through both packs if the second pack is plugged in to the charging port? And if the draw went through the port went beyond the amperage than a charger would normally deliver, could the port handle the resulting amps? Officially the answer probably has to be "no" since you might not have the engineering headroom you would want, but in fact do you think it would work? Not sure if this idea is half-baked.
- pull off the existing box, cut the wires, and put it back on with connectors - during the week I could potentially use the regular tough weatherproof box, but on the weekend I could use a second box that contains two Li-Ion packs instead. By dremelling out the ridges inside the box that hold the A123s in lines I could fit two Li-Ion packs (might have to route the board down by a couple millimeters and raise the Li-Ion box by a few couple millimeters but that's no problem). Then I would be able to switch the boxes from commuting mode to weekend mode just be taking out the six security screws. As a bonus, I could throw the commuting box in my backpack with a security screwdriver and switch to the commuting box to get me home when the weekend box is flat so I never have to have range anxiety.

So what do you say, would you bring me an empty box when you come to Vancouver? I could pay triple your cost to have the box made if you feel that's fair.
 
I opened the cap and the Boosted Board uses the AS5134 Rotary Sensor.
http://ams.com/eng/Products/Position-Sensors/Magnetic-Rotary-Position-Sensors/AS5134

AS5134.jpg
 
if you don't have huge hills, just flat and you are used to push around and take it easy... what are the specs of the boosted then ? the dual is given for 7 miles stock which is like 11km.. Just wondering if it's possible on a normal and gentle usage to push it to ... 18km...
 
I took my boosted apart and the battery can be easily replaced with li-ion 10S same voltage but bigger capacity but my only concern is the hand remote control battery. If I increase the range of the board than I will have to increase the batt capacity of the remote to. My other concern is the built in BMS. We can connect the new battery to the existing BMS ( not sure if we need to calibrate with the new battery so the sensors read the difference) or run it without the BMS - no sure if the board will work that way.

10S li-ion pack with 5 amp will give you 10 miles range at least.
 
Silenthunter said:
I took my boosted apart and the battery can be easily replaced with li-ion 10S same voltage but bigger capacity but my only concern is the hand remote control battery. If I increase the range of the board than I will have to increase the batt capacity of the remote to. My other concern is the built in BMS. We can connect the new battery to the existing BMS ( not sure if we need to calibrate with the new battery so the sensors read the difference) or run it without the BMS - no sure if the board will work that way.

10S li-ion pack with 5 amp will give you 10 miles range at least.

The remote battery lasts multiples of one charge of the board battery.

You can't connect a 12S 3.2V/cell BMS to a 10S 3.7V/cell BMS without modifying both hardware and software.

The board will not work without the BMS.
 
okp said:
if you don't have huge hills, just flat and you are used to push around and take it easy... what are the specs of the boosted then ? the dual is given for 7 miles stock which is like 11km.. Just wondering if it's possible on a normal and gentle usage to push it to ... 18km...

We've gotten as much as 9 miles from it with gentle usage, but it's no fun then :)
 
for people that are wondering about boosted coverage; I got a feedback from boostedboards that they should be doing two qualification meeting to make the board hopefully shippable to europe which is not the case as of today.
 
erwincoumans said:
I opened the cap and the Boosted Board uses the AS5134 Rotary Sensor.
http://ams.com/eng/Products/Position-Sensors/Magnetic-Rotary-Position-Sensors/AS5134


Where is the sensor located, which cap have you opened?
Also, can you maybe upload higher res pics of the controller board?
What is the motor diameter/length?
Thanks!
 
Those are the metal caps on the outward facing side of each motor.
See 'CAP' in attach picture with motor controller, click on it for more detail.

Haven't measured the motors yet.

FullSizeRender-7low.jpg
 
skdoo said:
Silenthunter said:
I took my boosted apart and the battery can be easily replaced with li-ion 10S same voltage but bigger capacity but my only concern is the hand remote control battery. If I increase the range of the board than I will have to increase the batt capacity of the remote to. My other concern is the built in BMS. We can connect the new battery to the existing BMS ( not sure if we need to calibrate with the new battery so the sensors read the difference) or run it without the BMS - no sure if the board will work that way.

10S li-ion pack with 5 amp will give you 10 miles range at least.

The remote battery lasts multiples of one charge of the board battery.

You can't connect a 12S 3.2V/cell BMS to a 10S 3.7V/cell BMS without modifying both hardware and software.

The board will not work without the BMS.


Did you mean connecting the Boosted Board BMS to a 10S LI-Ion Battery?
Did you try that already?
 
Update: I'm now using a different charger with my boosted board.
It's the Cycle Satiator from Grin Technologies:
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-satiator.html
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It's pretty cool - it's fully programmable and can charge at up to 8 amps instead of the 2.7A of the stock charger.
You can also put it charging profiles that will charge your batteries to only 80% for example instead of 100% for those times you aren't going as far. This will make them last much longer. Then you can have another profile that gives you the full charge when you need it.
I bought it to charge the battery packs for my diy board project (you can see the blue packs I'm going to use to the right of the charger if the image is not cut off) but as long as I have it I thought it would be cool to be able to use it on my Boosted too and keep my original Boosted charger at work.
I have it limited to 2.7A right now even though the A123 batteries in the Boosted can be charged at much higher amperage. That's because I'm not sure how much amperage the charging plug can handle. It's supposed to be a "Switchcraft" brand connector. From the measurements it seems to be a 761KS17 (http://www.switchcraft.com/productsummary.aspx?Parent=956) which is capable of 5A at up to 30V according to the specs.
I couldn't find anywhere in town that sells that connector tho, and Mouser wants $10 plus $20 shipping to send me one. If anyone has a lead on how to get this thing cheaper let me know otherwise I guess I'll drop the $30.
So for now I cut the end off a Lenovo adapter that has the same inside and outside diameters. The Lenovo brick outputs 3.42A at 19V and looking inside the connector it doesn't look as beefy as the real Switchcraft one. The pin inside the Switchcraft port is split so that it springs against the inside of the plug barrel. The Lenovo on the other hand has two little pads inside the plug that get pushed against a solid pin in the port, so the connection surface will be smaller.
The Satiator has an XLR connector and an XLR-Anderson adapter is available. To connect the Lenovo plug to the Satiator I made a Lenovo-Anderson adapter.
Justin at Grin suggests bypassing the charging plug entirely and charging the batteries by tapping into the discharge wires. This way I can charge at a full 8A as there is no concern about the current capacity of the charging port connection, or the soldering and wire between the port and the battery inside the Boosted, or cooking the Boosted's BMS.
Strangely with the Satiator set to 2.7A it seems to charge faster than the stock charger which also claims to be 2.7A. About 45 minutes vs an hour. Perhaps the stock charger doesn't really output quite 2.7A or perhaps it charges to a slightly higher voltage.
I imagine at 8A it would get it done in 20 minutes which would be pretty cool for those times when I have to charge at Starbucks. The crappy range is the main reason I'm diy'ing a second board.

There is currently one drawback with using the Satiator: the Satiator doesn't charge until it detects a battery with the correct voltage is connected - this is a safety feature to keep you from charging with the battery connected backwards. The Boosted's BMS won't present the battery voltage to the charging plug until it detects charging voltage. I guess this is for protection if the charging plug gets splashed or otherwise shorted. So there's a standoff. Luckily the Satiator allows you to override the safety and start a charge even without a battery detected. Another wrinkle is that every 30 minutes the Satiator will drop the current to zero check how the charge is going, and the Boosted will go back to short circuit protection mode. So if you need more than 30 minutes of juice you have to force start another charge cycle.

Justin at Grin says he will add an option in the next firmware to allow the safety to be disabled on a per-charging-profile basis so that will be cool. I'll be able to have safety on when charging my 18650 packs for my diy project and off for my Boosted.
 
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