Steelhubs.com

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 11 2015 3:00pm

I'm not sure how the magnets were made but I'm guessing the same as most and made by sintering. From what I read even Scorpion motors (I'm always on the quest to beat scorpion or Hacker) use magnets that are like only N42 or less but therefore they can get a higher heat ability - so something like N38shr or something with three letters. And it's this high heat ability before they lose their magnetism which largely enables them to have such high power to weight.
I haven't weighed the motors and they made two mistakes in their making which will be changed : the outer bolt on flange is supposed to be aluminum but it's steel on these 4. they're sending some aluminum flanges (I'm getting over my purple phase but they're coming purple). They also goofed and put the magnets in front of the thicker part of the rotor steel and not in front of the 14 grooves. The flux is best contained and redirected forward with the flux ring steel behind and to the sides of the magnets and not directly behind. complete gaps in the flux ring are ok if these gaps are centered right behind the magnets So the magnets were supposed to be centered right in front of the 14 grooves and that would allow the most flux reflection. ..but since I can't run a motor simulation program and wasn't sure of just what would happen with these grooves behind the magnets and what lines of flux could possibly be cut if the grooves were too big we went the safer way and the rotor steel (1020) is thicker than it needs to be. Trying to pull a steel nut from the back of a typical 62mm motor compared to these is much harder and there is very little flux escaping from these motors, and more importantly the shape of the groove in the flux ring/rotor isn't altering the field shape to cause problems and they video the manufacturer sent me of them running shows them super smooth. Next run maybe we'd do slightly thinner steel rotor to be lighter and make sure they understand where the magnets need to be placed. The weight ultimately can be as little as possible: the stator steel is a must and rotor steel can be pared down a bit but the stator tube (purple) and the bolt on flange will be aluminum.

the output of the motors is unknown still. Cant wait to test them and will overlay with the vesc and my watt meter readings. going to run them on 12s with the low kv of 100 and 80

makithepaki   1 mW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by makithepaki » Dec 12 2015 5:24pm

When will it be done. Estimate cost?

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 12 2015 8:40pm

The final cost I can't say as the rubber part hasn't hit the road. when that rubber hits should be beginning of next week. Cost will be cheeeep as I want to assure we get 50 people. Under 100 each for sure. More like 80

nickkapoor   10 mW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by nickkapoor » Dec 12 2015 11:49pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:The final cost I can't say as the rubber part hasn't hit the road. when that rubber hits should be beginning of next week. Cost will be cheeeep as I want to assure we get 50 people. Under 100 each for sure. More like 80
That sounds awesome.

Freshair   100 W

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Freshair » Dec 13 2015 2:38am

Am probably the only one who would bite for this, but make a mold for 107mm thane and i'll bit onto a set of four of these beauties! Come on, pleeeeaaaase :D
Low impact to no impact

arielrossolato   10 mW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by arielrossolato » Dec 14 2015 2:50am

I'll buy one set.
For sure

addicted2climbing   100 W

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by addicted2climbing » Dec 14 2015 6:45pm

chaka wrote:These look awesome! Your vesc's are shipping today. Had to keep them school for a last minute lecture on FOC. :D
Hello Chaka,

I have a question on the VESC you sent John for the hubmotors. I have the other set of prorotypes since I did the CAD and mechanical engineering of these motors. I have a very early VESC that I intended to use with a set of Jacob's hub motors that never panned out. Actually my not getting Jacobs motor to work lead to my working on my own design. At the same time John was trying to do the same and we joined forces. Anyhow, he mentioned there is a software upgrade that I need to do that will be better suited for pour motor design. Any idea where I find the upgrade. Also at the time, it was only a Linux based software but a windows version was in progress. Is there a windows based tool for this. I have the board required to do the upgrade but have yet to try and use it with the VESC. Any help would be appreciated.

Take care,

Marc

addicted2climbing   100 W

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by addicted2climbing » Dec 15 2015 3:01pm

First test of 3D printed wheel on Hub motor. This Wheel was printed on a Stratasys printer, but th eprint failed half way so its only an inch or so tall. The good print went to Troy to make the mold. Anyhow since I had the old print I thought I would see if it fit.

Im looking forward to getting the actual wheels and putting this together. Unsure if I or John will finish first but I plan to work on things a bit this holiday break.

Marc
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torqueboards   100 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Dec 18 2015 12:23am

Looks awesome! Can't wait to see the final product.
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chaka   1 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by chaka » Dec 18 2015 10:44am

addicted2climbing wrote: Hello Chaka,

I have a question on the VESC you sent John for the hubmotors. I have the other set of prorotypes since I did the CAD and mechanical engineering of these motors. I have a very early VESC that I intended to use with a set of Jacob's hub motors that never panned out. Actually my not getting Jacobs motor to work lead to my working on my own design. At the same time John was trying to do the same and we joined forces. Anyhow, he mentioned there is a software upgrade that I need to do that will be better suited for pour motor design. Any idea where I find the upgrade. Also at the time, it was only a Linux based software but a windows version was in progress. Is there a windows based tool for this. I have the board required to do the upgrade but have yet to try and use it with the VESC. Any help would be appreciated.

Take care,

Marc
I work with linux primarily, the win/osx versions are ported over by jacobloy right now and I am not sure if he has ported version 2.4 of the bldc-tool. Be sure to update your VESC using whatever bldc-tool that is compatible with your current firmware then update your bldc-tool. updating the bldc-tool first could lead to bricking your VESC and would require a st-link to bring it back. Let me know if you hit a wall and need some help.

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 28 2015 2:44am

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I'll have to find a pc tomorrow and download the latest vesc program as doing a plain old plug-in shows no movement

My comp won't go to the website, I gave my girlfriends computer the Optomizer virus, my only associates/friends have outdated apples or iPads. Somewhere some do-gooder tomorrow will make it happen. If anyone is in San Francisco and wants to make it go I have nothing else to do tomorrow.
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Rockymatu   100 µW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Rockymatu » Dec 30 2015 1:30pm

Hummina, did you manage to test the motors?

Any luck with the Vesc?

Thanks!

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 30 2015 3:35pm

I'm in the midst of discovering..how to get the vesc to recognize the trans signal. I have been able to do motor tests and program the motors and vary the rpm and amps and duty cycle(forget what that is but more is more). Don't know if I'm running FOC or not and don't care as the motors sound fantastic!
I've watched a couple videos and read stuff at electric-skateboard.builders where there's good info. I should probably go to the website made by the guy who designed the vesc and ask there :shock: Chaka , ollinboards, who sold them to me has been a huge help.
If anyone has done it already and has advice..other than ask write and ask Vedder' :shock: I'll do that

But the motors...I..am...excited..yet ..stuck. I run them occasionally and reprogrammed them for fun but mostly spend my time plugging my receiver wire in and out and in and flipping it and in and on and off in and out and flip it again and see what will get me a receiver g light on the trans, and what I can get on my computer screen. And then shutting own the program to clear the stuck gauge that's on the screen even though I unclick it. Stuck at fifty.
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Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 30 2015 4:45pm

Got it going! Will put up,a video tomorrow if it's dry out. Or maybe it'll dry tonight.

Rockymatu   100 µW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Rockymatu » Dec 30 2015 4:55pm

Great news!!

Waiting for that video!

chuttney1   100 W

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by chuttney1 » Dec 30 2015 10:06pm

I wanna see some statistics like maximum power in Watts and a torque curve. Keep it going...

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 31 2015 2:28am

Image

Image

I'll post a video later today

Need to set the battery min limit next time. Dropped to 30 volts with 12s after launching up the 3 block hill that is haight street coming off market and maybe 15 degrees. At market the batteries were already down at 3.6. I was just going to ride a bit on the way home and take the bus but couldn't resist testing it as I hadn't been able to get to the end of the trigger on flats. I still couldn't hold the trigger down going up. I had seen someone on a boosted board cresting the hill and I wanted to see how it would compare. I went much faster. The car in front of me stopped at the stop sign at the top and asked me where I got the board. The aluminum in the center of the motor was just too hot to hold my fingers to for longer than 3 seconds. Pumped from the ride I didn't think to look at the voltage on my watt meter and moved on. 10 blocks later another steep hill and I felt voltage sag and I quickly got off and was at 30 VoLTs. Ugh. They've bounced back to 35 volts but still charger says low voltage and won't do anything with them. I'll have to fool my charger into thinking they're a different chemistry to charge them now. They're sitting in my aluminum trash can waiting for their second charge!
But the motors are great and.. I'm not the safest tester and have now found that the threaded rings that hold the motor together are oiled as apposed to thread locked which they need. I had almost a wheel bearing come out after the ring came off and luckily I heard it jingling on the hanger and I got off before the motor fell apart. I pressed the bearing back on its seat and tightened the ring back by hand and moved on and then the ring and bearing on the other wheel did come off about a mile later! I jumped off quickly and thought I might be ruined. Got to see the inside of the motor for the first time. No damage and I definately need loctite before riding again.
The rubber is a great fit and no problems taking tight turns. A bit rough on rough roads though as its maybe 90 or 95 duro.
I'll see if I can download the FOC program today and get the motors with it in the video today. I am thrilled with the motors as is though.
All my electronics have been held in place with a cut up sock for protection and a bunch of packing tape still. Works.

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LEVer   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by LEVer » Dec 31 2015 4:32pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote: ...
All my electronics have been held in place with a cut up sock for protection and a bunch of packing tape still. Works.
You, my friend, gets the DIY award-of-the-century for that! :mrgreen:

I assume the 90/95 duro is to keep the wheels from squishing and jumping out of the flange. I wonder if you guys can make another soft layer around the wheel, kinda have two duros. Harder on the inside, but soft on the outside.

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 31 2015 4:54pm

LEVer wrote:
Hummina Shadeeba wrote: ...
All my electronics have been held in place with a cut up sock for protection and a bunch of packing tape still. Works.
You, my friend, gets the DIY award-of-the-century for that! :mrgreen:

I assume the 90/95 duro is to keep the wheels from squishing and jumping out of the flange. I wonder if you guys can make another soft layer around the wheel, kinda have two duros. Harder on the inside, but soft on the outside.
That's the plan. The different polyurethanes stick well to each other. I'm going to make another mold where I have access to the inner grooves, paint them in the harder duro, then pour the mass

nickkapoor   10 mW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by nickkapoor » Dec 31 2015 5:51pm

Sign me up when their ready! They look amazing.

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Dec 31 2015 11:29pm

Bummed I just get continuous red and blue flashing lights and no connection or movement . I'll have to plug it in to the computer and see if anything shows strange
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bandaro   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by bandaro » Jan 01 2016 1:19am

85 is the max duro I would be after for the urethane. Any higher and it will have a tendency to slide on hard turns, and it would be a real icy slide not a buttery smooth one. This would be way too dangerous to ride at high speeds.

Hope you get the electrics sorted soon, can't wait to hear full reports and speeds, etc.

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 01 2016 2:03am

I've been adjusting things for maybe 2 hours and out of ideas. It stopped blinking red and blue. Not sure if it's cause I upped the max voltage.
I can't get the receiver to bind. I wired in a new receiver plug as the orriginal was looking a bit empty in the center hole. With a multimeter I can get readings but don't know enough to know more than I see electricity. The receiver shows that it's getting elec just won't connect today. Strange as it was lastnight and I didn't unplug the receiver. Can't get it to bind.

I can do motor tests but I can't get the controls to move he motor at the right of the screen (amps,rpm, and duty) unless the receiver is flashing (the receiver flashes when it's looking to bind worth something and not finding it). If the receiver isn't flashing I can just do the motor tests.
Bummed. Was excited to get out and make a video racing up hills. Hard to get help w less than an hour till new year.

And I don't understand what it really was that had me goin get lastnight.
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Rockymatu   100 µW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Rockymatu » Jan 03 2016 4:36am

Any luck binding the controller?

I wish I could help you but I don't have the VESC's yet...

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 03 2016 2:03pm

I wrote about it a couple posts back and maybe you missed it but I was flying around the other night and then haven't been able to get my trans and receiver to bind so it seems.
I've got two more trans and receivers coming in the mail but I'm stuck till then. I was really impressed the moments I was under power. These days I just push it around and am waiting.

But as soon as I get going again I'll definitely put the motors through some tough tests on video and then round up people who want to get a set. According to the manufacturer it will take 30 days to make 100 and that's simple, the rubber though, either I'll be pouring it and it'll be Troy's stuff (bjb enterprises), which is pretty good, or we will get a major wheel maker to make us something better. Marc is friends with Orangatang and they're interested.

Give me two or three days.

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