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Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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cmatson
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by cmatson » Jan 13, 2016 11:01 pm

Haha wonderful video! The camera man on the bike barely keeping up just further showed the real extent of the hills you were able to climb.

You've convinced me :D

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by chuttney1 » Jan 14, 2016 12:36 am

Good job on getting those hub motors running Hummina. Glad to see this project moving along. To chime in with others about raising the level of presentation, please post a chart showing the motor's power, torque, and maybe efficiency for the expected RPM range and some basic stats. Makes it easier for one to grasp what is being made from buyer's perspective.

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Rockymatu » Jan 14, 2016 2:39 am

Wooow!! You almost killed your camera guy!!

Now you need to build an e-bike for him to follow you. :lol:

Great work on showing these motors power!!

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 14, 2016 4:01 am

I'd like to overlay a video with the vesc recording. That could show a lot. What the motors are capable of though I don't know. I've seen a testing tool where the motor is spun by another stronger motor, and the graphing of the electrical output at different rpm reveals.. but I don't know. I touch to the motor's aluminum center to feel if the motors are getting hot, too hot to hold for more than 3 sec and I'll take it easy. I don't use my infrared thermostat. I like to feel it while riding and guess at the motor's potential. The wire enamel is the weakest link and will burn out before any other damage to the motors is caused. I forget its rating now but typical standard wire. For me the only test likely to come of these motors,at this point in time, is finding a hill were I do finally burn them out. I've been longing to rewind a motor anyway. At this point the rotor is thicker than likely need be magnetically. But then u can get run over by an suv. comparing the attraction of a paperclip to the rotor on these to a typical outrunner says its sealed in. I haven't modeled the motor in any of the programs that are available and would like to.
I imagine the only thing more I could hope for in an out runner with such a purpose, other than what I got, is more iron in the stator as magnetic saturation and the iron loses there are the biggest inefficieny I think. Maybe having more poles helps with that too. But I'm more than happy with what it is. If a radial flux or transverse flux hub motor comes out that can show better efficiency and strength I could be wooed but till then these are my favorite.

The camera man has an ebike that sits unused needing batteries. if I hadn't gotten the jump on him at the u turn it could've been closer for the start at least.

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 14, 2016 5:21 pm

Whoever is interested in these you need to send me a message to pm and I can send u a paypal bill. I can't order until we have 20 people. Until 20 people, or 40 motors, are paid for to me I can't order them. The manufacturer said it will take 30 days to make them, shipping was literally a day and a half last time, and I should have the rubber all done by then.

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by CSN » Jan 14, 2016 10:35 pm

It's rubber or urethane? what are the specs? weight?

What about replacement rubber/urethane? what would it cost to order extra's?

The performance looks solid!

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 14, 2016 11:08 pm

It's polyurethane rubber as typically used. I'm guessing 20 bucks for replacement. It's a nice sounding price

The specs of the rubber is still to be determined and I've tested in an 89 duro rubberthat Troy(above) sells. He's going to send me an 80 duro to try next week and whatever works best we'll do. Or I'm trying to get a major wheel maker, forget their name now. They'll have better rebound but Troy's rubber still is better than China clone stuff and defnately durable in 89 which is nice.
The weight of the motors I didn't measure before putting them on. Should've. Don't want to take my board apart to weigh them. But a heavy motor is a good thing

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by dfr » Jan 15, 2016 1:59 am

These look really promising and I'm keen to see some data like everyone else.

What trucks can these be used with? Any 8mm axle? Paris 150s? Is thread depth an issue?

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 15, 2016 10:17 am

Any 8mm trucks can be used but some need a bit of further threading cut with a die. Easily done at a machine shop or I can do it for you.

I don't have data to post other than the ingredients, airgap diameter, and that they are 100kv. I will post up weight soon. Other than the ingredients, which I almost never see from a manufacturer or distributor, or rebranders, the max wattage or continuous wattage numbers are not honestly revealing as a motor's ability to dissipate heat, the ambient temperature, wind flow, will greatly change the numbers. The most important ingredient probably being high heat magnets so if you ever do burn out the motor you can rewind it and know it will work as well if not better than before. Going up some steep hills and measuring the temp, as I did in the video above...a real world test, I think is the best revelation of what the motors can do. I weigh 160lbs

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by melodious » Jan 16, 2016 3:38 pm

Eskateboarders in North America need look no further if they want to go the hubbie wheel route than this thread.

I'm guessing you have ridden both types of motor systems (hub motor vs. "satellite" motor). Is there a noticeable difference in ride between them? More maneuverability? Sorry if this sparks a feud haha.

I like the raw video. No promotional BS, just pure footage. I actually thought the person filming was running on foot for most of it, then you realize no one can keep up for that length of time. I lived in the Sunset district years ago and it almost looks like your on the north side of Golden Gate Park? In my reckless youth days, I used to take a fast pass muni ride to UCSF medical and rollerblade w/ski poles down through the Sunset district.
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
42" dual diagonal Eskateboard @6s & 90mm wheels
Next: eMTB @10-12s & 8"-12" pneumatic wheels; Got Strapped? d-(',')z

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 16, 2016 4:26 pm

Rollerblades with ski poles! You are a character. I'm into roller skating but even those are messing my leg so I'm limited to my electric board, which I consider my handicap vehicle.

I've have a satellite drive system and I almost never used it. I think this is largely because of the difference between a hobby parts esc and the vesc. Hobby part esc, at least my hobbywing150, is very loud. I hate having people all turn around to see what the screeching noise is when braking or even the noise going forward. I also hold my ears when the fire trucks are going by..which you having been here probably know happens every half hour downtown.

Elkick, who is in Europe got 24 of the 40 we need to get the bulk order. I think there is money at humminashadeeba@gmail for 6 other motors now. and we need and someone is meeting me downtown here in SF today from here. I want to order as soon as we hit 40 so ten to go.

I'm having a great time and anyone who wants to visit here anytime to ride u can text me 415-849-8130. Thanks to those who are in.
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jordanwu97
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by jordanwu97 » Jan 17, 2016 1:34 am

Went out to SF to try out John's motors. Too bad it was rainy outside, so we only got to ride in the garage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkJM4hXLuEY

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 17, 2016 1:49 am

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It was a sorry attempt to ride for us as we were stuck inside and with my 2.4gh receiver broken I tried the nunchuck and was getting it stuck on cruise control at full throttle for 2 seconds and then slamming on the brakes! Ordered another hobbyking 2.4gh trans/receiver and it should be here in a couple days. If it gets dry out anyone who wants to come and give it a try then..

I'm no camera man.

But I like this picture!

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 19, 2016 3:59 am

The deal with China was 100 motors for 64.40. It's still the deal, but the "samples" we already got were supposed to be included in the payment for the hundred as I remembered it. They say not the case. So I don't have the 6,440 but will see if they will sell us 60. If they do it I'll be content. But if they say no we need the 6,440 then.. I send everyone their money back and wait. Go to work make some money. Then ask all the same people...

will tell you how it goes. They're mostly fast and I wrote them tonight.


The rubber slides off and on easily with the 89 duro. I havent felt any reason to be worried with it on a turn coming off the motor either.
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torqueboards
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by torqueboards » Jan 19, 2016 2:01 pm

Nice Hummina..

I actually like your design... The cap on top to hold the motor is brilliant.

Have you tried riding up some of the 20-25% grades here in SF yet?
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 19, 2016 4:47 pm

I still haven't posted the grades of what I did ride in the video back a couple posts. Arguello and Mcallister up to the top of USF. Turk last two blocks.

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 20, 2016 2:31 am

And Dexter (tourque boards) will probably be meeting me tomorrow and give it a ride and hopefully we can get his thoughts, and hopefully they will motivate the last couple people we need! Hopefully.
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Ryuudan » Jan 20, 2016 3:28 am

Hey, I could help with those motors, but I would use them on my inline skates. Didn't post my build here yet, but its called Thundrblade. I've been posting inside Vanarians build post :oops:

So far I'm using all hobby parts (waiting for my VESCs) and friction drive. I want to try hub motors, but it seems really hard to build them myself with little to no money and no access to a lathe and mill.

I read through the whole thread in a couple days and got confused at some point.
So far I understand that this hub motor you designed is screwed into the trucks. Is it possible to run a bolt through it?

Also I have a question about the motor. How is the can supported? I know there is a bearing on the 8mm axle on one side, but where is the other one? You should need 2 points of support for the can or it would not withstand the weight.

So, I would make my own rubber or adapt an existing inline skate wheel, since I have a 3D printer should be easy enough. Do you think its possible? how wide is the motor?

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 20, 2016 11:29 am

No money talk here in the general section. Edited.
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by JackDaviesDesign » Jan 20, 2016 3:48 pm

Is it too late to send the $200?

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 20, 2016 3:53 pm

Edited.

Can't sell things here

No prices or "selling" in titles.

Ride charge ride charge ride.... That's all I want to do.
Last edited by Hummina Shadeeba on Jan 21, 2016 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

torqueboards
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR (finally selling)

Post by torqueboards » Jan 21, 2016 12:41 am

Sweet setup.. Took it out for a ride today and met up with Hummina.

Great hub motors.. I wouldn't recommend them for anyone trying to ride any hills above 10-15% but the hub motors on flat ground with VESC and the setup is smooth as butter..
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 21, 2016 6:36 am

3am. Been riding a lot. I didn't have a transmitter for a while so at this point I have maybe 160 miles ridden. I charged three times today. 5amp hour at 50 volts, . I feel a need to test them before we order. One more day. ..for example someone who knows said it should use sealed not shielded bearings. So we can change that as that's important. This same guy has had a machine shop for 35 years and helped me yesterday get the loctited rings off with his lathe and a homemade tool. He said the design is sound and he liked it and the bearing size. ... I ride doing circles dragging wheels sliding often. You wouldn't know riding it and you wouldn't know unless in a quiet room and looking but there is the slightest play in one spot and this worries me because...I should send a detailed picture of the airgap with these. They said they could do .4mm and I said sure and while I can't measure it I can compare it to my tacon150. I'm worried that bearings and bearing seats will wear and develop play and it'd be safer not to have such a small airgap. .4mm airgap is maybe asking too much for long term. I want to ride it for another hard day, now that I have a transmitter again, and see what comes of it. Things are great now but a skate wheel needs to take abuse. These are powerful enough that the peace of mind knowing that even if you're bearings go to shit you won't be ruining magnets. So that's holding things till tomorrow.

So purple again? Make it match this time ..or wild fruit flavors..or silver..black
And as I was saying above I'm thinking add .1mm airgap. Small but we can breath easier not stressing about possible bearing play. They are a tight slide fit now and with a dribble of retaining fluid they're solid except I feel the slightest movement with one motor along a diagonal axis ...so not straight sideways or up and down. Just don't want to fret over it and the power is good enough with two that we don't need it. Skate wheels need to take a lot and making them into a precision motor, don't want to expect too much. Make the can a smidgen lighter.
And the sealed not shielded bearings ..(electric motor grade bearings don't seem to apply to us from what I read as they're about vibrations). i forget what abec the NSK bearing on it are and need to make sure the abec scale won't be an issue. any suggestions?

I'll put another 50 miles in tomorrow for sure. I'll try to abuse the bearings and their seats. The power I don't need to test.
Put your thoughts in tomorrow otherwise I'll chose. Hope I'm not concerning you, all is going great and I'm riding the crump out of them...just remembering I'm at mile 150 still and when I send it to them and the details are done they're done

Rockymatu
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Rockymatu » Jan 21, 2016 7:38 am

Hi John,

From all the questions you are asking I can't answer about bearings or airgap or ABEC grade. I trust you already have a very good hub motor prototype.

And I want to say that we should be clear that this is what we are buying, a prototype. For me this means that it could be possible to suffer some failure due to being the first units of a new design and that's fine. We are also buying them at the pure cost, so we should not complain or expect more than a prototype.

Regarding colors, I'm fine with one anodized contrast color (like your purple but another one please :) or also all black. But it really doesn't matter too much. I will be happy with the two motors rolling, whatever color they have.

Hope you get the right answers from the experts here and I'm sure we all be very happy with these rockets!!

Hummina Shadeeba
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jan 23, 2016 7:59 pm

I shorted my motor. They need more insulation (shrink wrap ) on the junction where the wires enter the motor. You gotta do it or maybe I will.

I heard an electrical snap from the board and jumped off, took it home thinking maybe the bit of water on the ground shorted the esc ..or I had no idea but got off thinking sparks bad. Get home see it's all dry and don't know what to think so go back out again after toasting it near the heater. Snap and snap and I still don't know what's happening but I thought I saw a spark so more throttle and snap with spark out of the motor. It was a relief really to know what was going on. So I find the wires have been rubbed off their insulation just as they enter the motor. Wires are pulled down against a corner. They need more shrink wrap in the hole. Triple layer.

I didn't use shrink wrap. My plugs are nicely soldered and shrunken and I didn't have the right size so... After the events above I thought e6000 glue gooped in the wire holes would solve the problem. ((The wires were chafed and making connection through the purple aluminum)). I let it dry maybe 2 hours. My batteries are charged and self-control isn't good for testing so I went out riding.

I sensed something. I think it might have deteriorated. At the end before getting off hard on the throttle was just noises from the motor and no more power beyond a slight acceleration. I get off. I decide its messed up and my glue job didn't work or maybe I have "shorting in the coils" and not just this connection with the purple aluminum. I don't know. One motor had no sparks initially and never had any problems. ..the one that sparked ...when I got off the last time and felt it it was very hot. Way hotter than anything I've seen. And the bearings were seizing!!

The motor cooled and the motor bearings have gone back to seeming as good as they were. This motor always had stronger cogging in hand without power and it still shows that: magnets seem good.

I'll test it with my multimeter and look for shorts. Talk about foreshadowing...think I'll buy that spray enamel product I posted above. Or just rewind it. Haven't even looked at it yet.


More Shrink wrap could've avoided all this.

I don't know if I had burned something with the initial snapping or maybe even my new glue coating wasnt good.

I'll be back out there in as short a time as possible. Things were still going great other than that.

!!!!!!!just sent the money to China for the 60. Had trouble getting my PayPal account to do it.

I say China like trump. China is brotherhobbies which is a branch of something. In Chinese. People have been written asking me where they can get stators or motors. Brotherhobby did not offer to sell me stators. If u want stators I know a place can't remember now and message me 53mm for 63mm motor.
But please don't ask brotherhobby for anything ...for a while,,,,,I want them busy doing our motors !
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