Steelhubs.com

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional

Steelhubs.com

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:41 pm

there are a couple places in China I'm writing with that will do these hub motors and while we haven't gotten to the price I'm betting it'll be pretty cheap and they're willing to do as few as three. Looking in the US was honestly impossibly expensive as everywhere required a "custom" stator. The hunt for standard stators led me to 3 places in china. I'm going for the best biggest, strongest, most heat resistant magnets I can get and possibly fully sealed and using thermally conductive epoxy to dissipate the heat...turns out the air current doesn't do nearly as good a job

[color=#808000][color=#800080][color=#800080][color=#BF0080] don't know why I said that. Don't know what other wrong things I put in here. But going back editing taking out pricing. [/color][/color][/color][/color]

The urethane with a big hole and 4mm ribbed nylon core on the other hand I haven't found anyone to do unless I want to do a huge amount and this part needs to be figured out. Id be nice to maybe even do it ourselves with a pla core or something... I haven't looked into how it's done but know some people here have. Chutney for one has sent me a bunch of diy urethane wheel making links I still haven't looked at and was hoping to get it made in china as well

this motor uses a single threaded flanged ring to hold the motor together and the urethane from coming off. Few parts. big parts. Fewer possible tolerance issues. I cant upload the picture and dimensions of the ring as it says it's too big, as well as my other pics I describe below

the outside of the rotor will be ribbed to transfer the motor's torque and I'm waiting on them to see what would be easiest for them to manufacture. Hoping to have both pieces fully done on a lathe for ease...
All this is is two metal parts done in steel, two bearings, magnets, stator, wire, the urethane, and a ring to hold it all. The stator tube definitely would need to be steel but I'd rather do it all.. strength over weight and less parts with the incorporated flux ring behind the magnets.
I think the dimensions of the bearings are in the pics. one is giant and robust the other is smaller at 17x7x5 and has half the load ability of a typical skate bearing but that's really good enough and they're replaceable anyway.
there will also be an axle coming off the stator tube that's 10mm and threaded and need to go into surfrodz trucks which are getting cheaper these days. they have some weird locking mechanism that should do beyond just the pin called heliocoil or something..and maybe even some locktite.
my biggest concern, really my only concern, is the bearing in the stator tube needs more support and that pressing the tube into the stator wont be tight enough. It could go with a smaller bearing and more steel tube but I think if it's a tight press-fitting the stator should support.
help me do this. Help us do this! Any expenses will be split evenly and the more input from anyone the better. I'm not trying to make money, on the contrary I'm trying to lose it and just trying to get some hub motors that will reliably work and have real cooperation and transparency in their making.
Attachments
cad design motor rotor.pdf
(776.51 KiB) Downloaded 960 times
cad design motor stator tube.pdf
(700.96 KiB) Downloaded 610 times
Last edited by Hummina Shadeeba on Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:46 pm, edited 6 times in total. View post history.
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby addicted2climbing » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:05 pm

Hey Hummina,

I just had a look at your PDF and on the motor can your going to have a hard time machining the bore below the bearing journal. Are you going to do this on a Mill or Lathe? How do you intend to attach these to the trucks without a through hole? Are you planning to just have an interface to the 3 tapped holes 120 degrees apart? If so cantilever load is gonna kill you. This is just what I perceive based on the two drawings and my comments are not meant to discourage you. Maybe i am not following your idea correctly.

Marc
addicted2climbing
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:37 pm

addicted2climbing wrote:Hey Hummina,

I just had a look at your PDF and on the motor can your going to have a hard time machining the bore below the bearing journal. Are you going to do this on a Mill or Lathe? How do you intend to attach these to the trucks without a through hole? Are you planning to just have an interface to the 3 tapped holes 120 degrees apart? If so cantilever load is gonna kill you. This is just what I perceive based on the two drawings and my comments are not meant to discourage you. Maybe i am not following your idea correctly.

Marc


I'm going to get it made with a threaded axle. Made on a lathe

The PDF isn't complete because I wavered on having a hole in the stator tube or an axle on it. I like axle on after talking to...forget his name. Surfrodz guy. They use something named something like helio-something which locks the axle on. Don't know anything about it still. Waiting for his email telling the exact dimensions

It is a big drop after the bearing seat but they said they'd do it. Could always change the drop size and use a different bearing if it were an obstacle. Communications with them is awkward.
Last edited by Hummina Shadeeba on Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby LEVer » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:12 pm

I'm in if you make it sensored. I really don't care if I use belts or hub motors, I'm just looking for a pre-made rc sensored outrunners. Alien has been out-of-stock of them for a long time.
User avatar
LEVer
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:29 am
Location: SoCal

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby bossiamnot » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:20 pm

Definitely should be sensored. Hall effect sensors are cheap. I'm very excited to see how this project turns out!
bossiamnot
100 µW
100 µW
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:12 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:43 pm

Great. Glad to hear all your advice both mechanical and electrical and I'll be asking about sensors and the depth of the bearing seat. Wouldn't have thought to.
Psyched cause rubber people are writing and after $2 tacos on Tuesday here in SF I'll be communicating with the Chinese as best I can. They stay open late
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby jacobbloy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:26 pm

Good luck with every thing mate they more ppl doing this sort of stuff will be better for the industry!

Can't wait to see some working prototypes
jacobbloy
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:45 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby addicted2climbing » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:29 am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:Great. Glad to hear all your advice both mechanical and electrical and I'll be asking about sensors and the depth of the bearing seat. Wouldn't have thought to.
Psyched cause rubber people are writing and after $2 tacos on Tuesday here in SF I'll be communicating with the Chinese as best I can. They stay open late


Hummina,

Are you having them do the design for you, or did you give them drawings. You really should go through a few iterations of designs in CAD before you pull the trigger in China. When you do get there, I know a few good machine shops in China that are reliable and make parts right the first time. At least thats been my experience.

Marc
addicted2climbing
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:07 am

thanks Jacob you've been a help in doing this.
I found a couple places that will do the urethane with a nylon core but they're waiting on a model or cad design and I cant do that till the motor is confirmed, but it's been progressive.

The motor getting done is slowed as the lady I'm in contact with, with ideal 53x30 stators with a 20mm hole, has to then talk on the phone with the engineer while he's on vacation. She knows what I want done and told me she'd tell me when she heard any news. sounds good though. and I have one other good lead for the motors being done In small quantity who is hunting for a good stator for me. She thinks it might have to be more than 12 teeth. I think 16.

what do you think of that? the 12 teeth x 14 magnet configuration is touted as the most powerful but maybe in this application more would be better? more power isn't necessarily more efficiency.

why are you guys so into sensors? the short while my board was going I felt comfortable pushing off...in fact not pushing off seemed awkward. there's not much room in the can and I'd like to jam it with as much meat as possible. Justin's good efficiency doing a 1:1 effectively using 40mm of stator using two motors and very big magnets makes me want/wonder about if it'd be possible to get as good efficiency with a single 30mm stator and monster magnets. (I think he had smaller wheels though) I have no idea and it's probably unlikely unless it had some tiny air gap which I don't want to risk

what do you think of press fitting the stator onto the stator tube and using it to be the back support for the bearing tube and support the bearing inside?

What shaping is possible on the outside of the rotor I still don't know and am waiting to hear from them but had though simply a 4mm ribbed core so, 2mm then 4mm, etc, around maybe 10 ribs?
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby LEVer » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:24 am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:...
why are you guys so into sensors? the short while my board was going I felt comfortable pushing off...in fact not pushing off seemed awkward. there's not much room in the can and I'd like to jam it with as much meat as possible...


Simply put, because I build Electric Vehicles and not missiles on wheels. I don't know about you but sometimes I'd like to go less than 5 mph and enjoy the scenery. :D

Cogging torque doesn't just go away after you push off. It's still there, you're just being gentle on the throttle.

And since you're already talking to them, getting the sensors done in China would be the cheapest way to do it.
User avatar
LEVer
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:29 am
Location: SoCal

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby beto_pty » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:51 am

5 mph... you mean our boards can go under 40... :D
I knew not pulling so hard on the trigger was bound to have some sort of effect...just never tried it...LOL

I can live unsensored, but if it ends up not costing much, and the space they demand is not huge... cant see any problems with it...
Do or Do not. There is no try
PATY/neta viewtopic.php?f=35&t=65384
MIni-motor Build viewtopic.php?f=35&t=56839
Destroyer viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58504
Adrianas Board viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61171
Gargoyle viewtopic.php?f=35&t=61569
Velociraptor: 6s 10.4ah, Ezrun150, 9.8 mm abec11s, Quanum, 5060NTM, 16/48 hdt5, Piggyback Charge
User avatar
beto_pty
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:20 am
Location: Panama City, Republic of Panama

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby LEVer » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:10 am

Come on now, be honest. Don't tell me you never slowed down when you saw a pretty one approaching. :wink:



User avatar
LEVer
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:29 am
Location: SoCal

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby addicted2climbing » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:48 am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
addicted2climbing wrote:Hey Hummina,

I just had a look at your PDF and on the motor can your going to have a hard time machining the bore below the bearing journal. Are you going to do this on a Mill or Lathe? How do you intend to attach these to the trucks without a through hole? Are you planning to just have an interface to the 3 tapped holes 120 degrees apart? If so cantilever load is gonna kill you. This is just what I perceive based on the two drawings and my comments are not meant to discourage you. Maybe i am not following your idea correctly.

Marc


I'm going to get it made with a threaded axle. Made on a lathe

The PDF isn't complete because I wavered on having a hole in the stator tube or an axle on it. I like axle on after talking to...forget his name. Surfrodz guy. They use something named something like helio-something which locks the axle on. Don't know anything about it still. Waiting for his email telling the exact dimensions

It is a big drop after the bearing seat but they said they'd do it. Could always change the drop size and use a different bearing if it were an obstacle. Communications with them is awkward.


Hello Hummina,

I also spoke with Wayne when buying the trucks for my board. I was going to use his decks, but I found out after that Loaded is only a few building away form me and they gave me a pro deal on a deck when i stooped by to say hello. Both Wayne at Surfrodz and the guys at loaded are great.

In regards to the locking insert I am sure he is talking about a locking Helicoil. Here is a link: http://www.helicoil.in/helicoil.htm#hi

In regards to sensors designing them in now is far easier then retrofitting them. if you make a radial flange on the motor can, you don't need to rib the urethane. Have the wheels poured onto a hard plastic core that is a very tight slip fit over the motor can. On the rear the wheels have a bore to allow them to slip over the flange. Then with machine screws, screw the wheel to the flange. It fixes all the shortcomings of worrying about if the wheel is going to slid off and also its a positive connection so no need for drive lobes. You can add a press fit threaded insert in the core for the machine screws or even a Helicoil.
Last edited by addicted2climbing on Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
addicted2climbing
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby benj » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:01 pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:...there's not much room in the can and I'd like to jam it with as much meat as possible...


This has to be my favourite quote on ES ever. Good work.
User avatar
benj
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:32 am

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:08 pm

addicted2climbing wrote:
Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
addicted2climbing wrote:Hey Hummina,

I just had a look at your PDF and on the motor can your going to have a hard time machining the bore below the bearing journal. Are you going to do this on a Mill or Lathe? How do you intend to attach these to the trucks without a through hole? Are you planning to just have an interface to the 3 tapped holes 120 degrees apart? If so cantilever load is gonna kill you. This is just what I perceive based on the two drawings and my comments are not meant to discourage you. Maybe i am not following your idea correctly.

Marc


I'm going to get it made with a threaded axle. Made on a lathe

The PDF isn't complete because I wavered on having a hole in the stator tube or an axle on it. I like axle on after talking to...forget his name. Surfrodz guy. They use something named something like helio-something which locks the axle on. Don't know anything about it still. Waiting for his email telling the exact dimensions

It is a big drop after the bearing seat but they said they'd do it. Could always change the drop size and use a different bearing if it were an obstacle. Communications with them is awkward.


Hello Hummina,

I also spoke with Wayne when buying the trucks for my board. I was going to use his decks, but I found out after that Loaded is only a few building away form me and they gave me a pro deal on a deck when i stooped by to say hello. Both Wayne at Surfrodz and the guys at loaded are great.

In regards to the locking insert I am sure he is talking about a locking Helicoil. Here is a link: http://www.helicoil.in/helicoil.htm#hi

In regards to sensors designing them in now is far easier then retrofitting them. if you make a radial flange on the motor can, you don't need to rib the urethane. Have the wheels poured onto a hard plastic core that is a very tight slip fit over the motor can. On the rear the wheels have a bore to allow them to slip over the flange. Then with machine screws, screw the wheel to the flange. It fixes all the shortcomings of worrying about if the wheel is going to slid off and also its a positive connection so no need for drive lobes. You can add a press fit threaded insert in the core for the machine screws or even a Helicoil.


Oo you live right by Wayne. I was just writing to Marc privately telling him Wayne seems to want to do these and if we just get the stators from china instead of having them do the whole motor..that would be nicer. more expensive but not fraught with dangers.
I hear you on screws in the rotor flange but I really like having less parts and the wheel manufacturers are saying they can do the shaping of a nylon core. If the ribs would hold then we could omit little screws and it might be easier and maybe even cheaper to make. Might be harder to make and more expensive though. Having 14 ribs line up with 14 magnets for back iron would be fantastic in it's dual purpose in my mind.

there's the one flange on the outside which would be part of the rotor piece and the other side would have a screw-on flange to hold the inner bearing and the urethane from coming out that direction. I was thinking simply having the can made in 3mm steel, for instance, and then running it through a mill along it's axis cutting 2mm out all the way, even through the outside flange. so not as much flange on the outside but definitely enough to stop it falling off that direction and easy to do as long as somehow the rotor was oriented on the mill with a jig or something. then the nylon core could slide on and simply the flanged ring would hold the other side.
?

wayne wants the cad design to quote a price!!
we need to finish the ring and ribs on the can...or screws on flange..or any changes to the bearing seats...and confirm that the bearing can sit inside the stator with a press fit
??
Last edited by Hummina Shadeeba on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Vanarian » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:09 am

Hummina Shadeeba,

Is there room for adjustability in the design of your hub ?

How do you determine the power and max voltage your hub can take ? How do you determine Kv? Windings size, number, form, position ?

How much power and voltage do you think I could pump out of something as narrow as say 45mm of width for a diameter of 80mm? I aim for 12S max as it is standard among boards and already too much for many.
Last edited by Vanarian on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
I needed to turn Air Gear stuff into reality so I am making this!
-+Electric inline skates - no remote control - weight / angle sensor - hub motors - one frame for all wheels sizes between 80/125mm - from 3.2 to 12 KW :mrgreen:

Rollo Ergo Sum!
User avatar
Vanarian
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 568
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:24 pm
Location: France!

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:16 am

Vanarian wrote:Hummina Shadeeba,

Is there room for adjustability in the design of your hub ?

How do you determine the power and max voltage your hub can take ? How do you determine Kv? Windings size, number, form, position ?

How much power and voltage do you think I could pump out of something as narrow as say 45mm of width for a diameter of 80mm? I aim for 12S max as it is standard among boards and already too much for many.




There is room for adjustability in that nothing has been confirmed and everything is still open to input.

From my own asking on here as to why many little motors are capable of taking less voltage I heared the obstacle isn't the enamel on the windings but the rpm ability of the little bearings. The two bearings chosen so far are bigger than a typical outrunner so... But with a 1:1 the rpms people hit I doubt would be an issue
Determining max power would be decided solely by temperature ability I'm pretty sure. The magnets currie temp (where they lose their magnetism) being the weakest link and id like to get high temp N42s at least. But with higher temp the magnets gauss or strength typically is less but high temp n42s is what i was going for. The enamels ability to handle volts doesn't seem to be a problem and from what I read it'll be the same for a 12s or 8s motor...and the bearings are the weakest link
I've been telling them I'm looking for 125kv as it seems a good balance between induction and amp ability as the amp ability goes down with the thinner winding but the induction coming from the multiple thin winds is needed with the 1:1
From what I've read the dLRK wind has the best power ability done with a 12 teeth x 14 magnet configuration that this would be.
I'm not sure what you're asking about form or position

I'm not sure what voltage these would be able to take and the manufacturers ask this as well as the rpm needed. What you think the obstacles are?

So far this will have a 30mm stator and be 63 mm diameter. That's as far as has been somewhat decided but if u have an extra two cents you could throw in please do as its all open to change and the more knowledge and opinions the better.
12s? I don't know. That's a lot of ssss's. I wonder how all those ssss's will multiply by the kv and what would be optimal but I think just getting the mechanical engineering right is most important now. That can be figured though and at this point I'll likey be getting 5 stator's to wind and I could wind them for different kv to see how they perform compared to each other as I bust out my infrared thermometer and graphing wattmeter which shows amps used and voltage!!!
What kv you think you'd want?!
I'd like to find people who are interested in getting these. If anyone would pay for just the materials I'd wind and put the magnets in myself. If enough people will do it then it'd be worth getting the 100 wheels made.
Last edited by Hummina Shadeeba on Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Freshair » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:19 pm

If you could make it fit into a 107 flywheel, you got some financial support from me :D
As it stands right now though, think I will just try stielz idea first.

Heck to be honest, would be willing to toss a little $ your way just to help this project along.
Last edited by Freshair on Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Low impact to no impact
Freshair
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: British Columbia

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby agraham » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:25 pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:I'd like to find people who are interested in getting these. If anyone would pay for just the materials I'd wind and put the magnets in myself. If enough people will do it then it'd be worth getting the 100 wheels made.


I'm in.
agraham
10 W
10 W
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:57 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby torqueboards » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:38 pm

Why not prototype like Jacob did first? Unless the cost for the wheel mold isn't' too much.

You'll also need to pair this with a nice ESC and/or a sensored esc/motor. Do you have plans for that?
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits
torqueboards
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
 
Posts: 3907
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Hummina Shadeeba » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:01 pm

I wish stielz would get his pictures to work!

Cool agraham. At the moment we're hoping addictedtoclimbing will put his mechanical know-how in and finish the other two cad designs that I didn't do for the outside of the rotor and the ring, and then.. sending the cad of the rotor outside shape to the wheel manufacturers to get a price and quantity required on the strange core required...but all the dominos are lining up.

The wheel size, as is everything, is up for grabs. Then again I haven't seen any manufacturers that will do a size that big. I was hoping to mimic the Kegels with 80mm and 80 duro as they're all the rage these days and feel awesome to me and can just fit on my drop thru

and the cad design I did put up needs to be changed a bit too I've realized.

Prototype? I think I'm trying to. I'm really just talking and seeing what you guys think. Until I get the outside of the rotor cad design to the urethane people and I see what the price is...but from what I've been feeling out a couple can do it and the cost isn't going to be too much and they'll do low quantities.
I have no plans to pair it with anything and will be thrilled to just make these.
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1522
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Freshair » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:53 pm

Stielz pictures work for me.

Will keep an eye on your designs and take some measurements of my 107's, depending on what your final dimensions are for the length of the motor, can likely make it work in my flywheels. Have a cnc lathe and mill at my disposal at work so modifying wheels to fit is no bother. Stielz hubmotors are neat and uber simple, but much prefer something purpose built, so that if a guy wants to abuse the wheels and slide, wont have a worry at the back of my mind of the urethane coming undone.
Low impact to no impact
Freshair
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: British Columbia

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby onloop » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:02 pm

I am finding it difficult to follow this discussion....

needs some drawings of your design...

Please provide some details
User avatar
onloop
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:24 am
Location: Australia

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Vanarian » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
Vanarian wrote:Hummina Shadeeba,

Is there room for adjustability in the design of your hub ?

How do you determine the power and max voltage your hub can take ? How do you determine Kv? Windings size, number, form, position ?

How much power and voltage do you think I could pump out of something as narrow as say 45mm of width for a diameter of 80mm? I aim for 12S max as it is standard among boards and already too much for many.




There is room for adjustability in that nothing has been confirmed and everything is still open to input.

From my own asking on here as to why many little motors are capable of taking less voltage I heared the obstacle isn't the enamel on the windings but the rpm ability of the little bearings. The two bearings chosen so far are bigger than a typical outrunner so... But with a 1:1 the rpms people hit I doubt would be an issue
Determining max power would be decided solely by temperature ability I'm pretty sure. The magnets currie temp (where they lose their magnetism) being the weakest link and id like to get high temp N42s at least. But with higher temp the magnets gauss or strength typically is less but high temp n42s is what i was going for. The enamels ability to handle volts doesn't seem to be a problem and from what I read it'll be the same for a 12s or 8s motor...and the bearings are the weakest link
I've been telling them I'm looking for 125kv as it seems a good balance between induction and amp ability as the amp ability goes down with the thinner winding but the induction coming from the multiple thin winds is needed with the 1:1
From what I've read the dLRK wind has the best power ability done with a 12 teeth x 14 magnet configuration that this would be.
I'm not sure what you're asking about form or position

I'm not sure what voltage these would be able to take and the manufacturers ask this as well as the rpm needed. What you think the obstacles are?

So far this will have a 30mm stator and be 63 mm diameter. That's as far as has been somewhat decided but if u have an extra two cents you could throw in please do as its all open to change and the more knowledge and opinions the better.
12s? I don't know. That's a lot of ssss's. I wonder how all those ssss's will multiply by the kv and what would be optimal but I think just getting the mechanical engineering right is most important now. That can be figured though and at this point I'll likey be getting 5 stator's to wind and I could wind them for different kv to see how they perform compared to each other as I bust out my infrared thermometer and graphing wattmeter which shows amps used and voltage!!!
What kv you think you'd want?!
I'd like to find people who are interested in getting these. If anyone would pay for just the materials I'd wind and put the magnets in myself. If enough people will do it then it'd be worth getting the 100 wheels made.



125Kv seems effectively a good balance since our wheels have limited size! For something as big as a bike wheel I'd have said otherwise but here Yes I agree.

I might not be wrong in thinking that when you talk about bearings, you talk about the 608 wheels bearings? Cr600 is the key if you really want killer bearings, and you will only find this in Cronitect which are overpriced for a "personnal" use... I'd recommend them only to guys going for serious racing with sponsorship.

You can simply get fast bearings like ILQ9 or Bones Swiss Red and flush them with synthetic oil and teflon. I talk of these two models because I found them to be solid and well built, while not being too expensive. I currently run ILQ9, pretty good bearings but ABEC 7 are stronger for shocks absorptions.
Bearings are not really your main concern, in fact unmotorized it is one of the last parts to care about when you talk about rotation speed. Of course it IS important, but in real conditions the wheel has always forces and external friction induced, thus killing the "near 0" benefit from a bearing. You should not worry too much about it, spinning a bearing as fast as a brushless motor will not kill it as long as it is quality bearing with good service and good oiling.

I want powerful hub motors to squeeze into 110mm inline sized and similar wheels, knowing that the inline standard is 22.5mm width. My request / idea is not sefish because this size also accomodates all the "offroad" and "pneumatics" sized
longboards wheels, so you're killing two birds with one stone. Having the motor to protude from the wheels is acceptable as long as it does not reduce the usable surface of the wheel. In longboard it is not an issue because wheels always stay perpendicular 90° to the ground, though in offroad ground itself will vary angle ; in inline skating too much protuding woumd definitely be an issue as to corner the rider needs to carve himself and lean on sides like a blade.

In fact this kind of hub motor is more profitable for an offroad board than a "carving" board because you have benefits on everythings :

-shocks? Motor is directly protected by the wheel around it. Lateral protectoin is easy, put an aluminium shield to keep it safe and light.
a street longboard is made to ride on flat surfaces, you usually don't risk much with a drive kit.
-Size. a 1:1 ratio for a low Kv motor like 125Kv will allow torquey accelerations, while a size like 110mm or more allow versatile top speed. Once one model is done you can always prepare others and determine the exact Kv and size of wheel ratio to always be in the motor's efficiency range, depending on how you plan to use it. Speed? Hills? COmmuting? Racing? Bashing? This is what I mean.
-Size again! It is easier to build a reliable hub motor with appropriated space, since we need lots of power, than fitting it into 80mm tiny wheels. Smaller wheels means lower surface to dissipate heat. More magnetic flux to fight with a so tight model if you aim for serious usable power. Give it more room and you'll be surprised to see how these problems will diminish.

Achieving a street longboard with 80mm wheels will built-in hub motors deserves big praises. As far as design and weight distribution go, it is the best in implementation. But pulley kits nowadays are so well developped and affordable, with the advantage to be able to easily swap pulley sizes, that it put shadows over the hub motors versions. So my vote goes for something more toward inline / offroad / pneumatic sized wheels.

What do you think of it?

I'm definitely in if we can work toward something similar to what I propose :wink:

Btw about max voltage, you need to determine the wire and iron ratio because V causes iron losses and A causes copper losses. We want to favorise iron losses but for that we need enough iron!
Last edited by Vanarian on Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
I needed to turn Air Gear stuff into reality so I am making this!
-+Electric inline skates - no remote control - weight / angle sensor - hub motors - one frame for all wheels sizes between 80/125mm - from 3.2 to 12 KW :mrgreen:

Rollo Ergo Sum!
User avatar
Vanarian
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 568
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:24 pm
Location: France!

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Postby Freshair » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:46 pm

Lots of great points mentioned above ^

Would actually probably consider a pneumatic hub motor rather than modifying the 107's now that I think about it.

One thing I may add is, the only reason why I personally am not riding an electric longboard right now is because they are belt and pulley systems which does not suit my preference for a low drop deck board. Was on the waiting list for a kickr so that I could keep my board low by building batteries into the deck, but they took waay to long. With the belt and pulley systems you are very limited to how low you can go, with a hub motor and batteries built into a board this is a non issue. Granted, that is only with batteries built into the board, or a battery backpack...

Not to mention the stealth factor is pretty sweet too, over belt and pulley.
Low impact to no impact
Freshair
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:47 pm
Location: British Columbia

Next

Return to Stand-up E-scooters and E-skateboards

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests