Steelhubs.com

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Post Reply
torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Jun 25 2015 3:12pm

okp wrote:+1

torque, how is your 4WD going on ?!
lol... pedi just told me he got a new hub motor with swappable wheels..

now i'm waiting for him to release his new data so i can decide if i want to sell my current and buy his new ones :(
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

User avatar
psychotiller   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 949
Joined: Jan 01 2014 7:11pm
Location: Orange County, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by psychotiller » Jun 25 2015 3:14pm

espeed wrote:
psychotiller wrote: How much have you sold on ebay? Staying ahead of customer expectations (especially one's who actually believe they are always right even when they're not) is smart business. Seeing as you have an instant stance in favor of the "customer" I'd be wary of selling to you. Doesn't seem like you respect innovators at all.
I actually am an innovator myself and have sold many things on and off ebay. I have also had my share of complications with customers. The key to a successful business is always customer satisfaction. I don't think its wrong to raise prices to stay ahead of costs, but calling your customers "crazy" is another story. Its disrespectful and pretty telling of pediglides' whole attitude regarding his customers. I didn't just default to defending the customer side I was prompted by pediglide calling his customers crazy. I'm not sure why you are taking offence to this since my comment was not for you, even though you seem to have the same attitude as he does.
Same could be said about being over sensitive. Pining for apologies in the hopes that business will always take a bow and serve the unrealistic expectations of "the customer that deserves all but gives none" is ridiculous. I was a power seller on Ebay for awhile, even had health insurance through ebay. While managing an automotive shop as well. I felt compelled to defend him because he didnt say anything that was wrong or untrue.

You have 2 posts here. Care to share some of your innovations?
www.psychotiller.com

builds:
XT Wheels/Custom Hub & mount on Randal 180's/Drop Throughhttp://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=59259
6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=60449
"Have you ever heard of Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons!"-Vizzini

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jun 25 2015 3:35pm

torque what 4 wheel drive hubs you using?

hows peri going to replace the rubber?

User avatar
LEVer   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 719
Joined: Nov 07 2012 3:29am
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by LEVer » Jun 25 2015 3:54pm

espeed wrote:...

I actually am an innovator myself and have sold many things on and off ebay. I have also had my share of complications with customers. The key to a successful business is always customer satisfaction. I don't think its wrong to raise prices to stay ahead of costs, but calling your customers "crazy" is another story. Its disrespectful and pretty telling of pediglides' whole attitude regarding his customers. I didn't just default to defending the customer side I was prompted by pediglide calling his customers crazy. I'm not sure why you are taking offence to this since my comment was not for you, even though you seem to have the same attitude as he does.
Okay, tell me what you're selling on Ebay and I'll show what a crazy customer is like, and you have to give in to my whims. It's quite telling that you joined on the same date I got that "first and only" negative feedback on Ebay.
Hummina Shadeeba wrote:torque what 4 wheel drive hubs you using?

hows peri going to replace the rubber?
Hummina, sorry for being OT. Regarding the detachable wheels, I really don't know if I should push through with it. The machining is expensive and my sales volumes are really not big to keep the cost down. Then you have to worry about certain customers....
Last edited by LEVer on Jun 25 2015 4:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Jun 25 2015 4:02pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:torque what 4 wheel drive hubs you using?

hows peri going to replace the rubber?
Pedi's hub motors. I assume, you can remove the wheel from the motor.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Jun 30 2015 3:00am

Man writing to China...they seem to not want to understand sometimes. Making headway. Found a stator that's a perfect match and just waiting for them to give me a quote.

In other news I made a mount out of carbon and aluminum filled epoxy. Pattern making, then mold making, pouring, then vacuum chambering and pressure potting has become my new hobby. Waiting for a belt in the right size! Clear acrylic with a marble of Kevlar and carbon out of a new smaller mold is next. Cast on the hanger. This pic is almost all aluminum filled epoxy to test the strength.
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg (85.93 KiB) Viewed 2592 times

User avatar
okp   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1153
Joined: Oct 26 2014 3:27pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by okp » Jun 30 2015 12:03pm

omg Hummina, you taking it to the next level !

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 19 2015 3:14pm

image.jpg
image.jpg (164.42 KiB) Viewed 831 times
Soooo slow.

Going no sensors. With the esc tech always going forward seems a waste of space.

This is the final design but possibly will move the stator a bit away from the aluminum non-moving wall to avoid possible eddy currents. Soooo close.

torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Sep 19 2015 5:27pm

You know there are a ton of companies selling hub motors now? They are still kind of pricey though.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 19 2015 5:47pm

Which other than pediglide's? In complete boards yes, that should come out of kickstarter. There's the German expensive smooth thing but I think it includes everything as well.

These are estimated at 1500 watts each because of the low Kv. the manufacturer will sell themat the "sample" pricing but there is a caveat in which if we get 100 the original "samples" get cut to the 100-purchase price. Pm me if anyone is interested in taking this gamble.

And these are true hub motors in that they are fully recessed within the dimensions of the kegel. And a .2mm stator and n45h magnets and a .4mm air gap. Scorpion motor quality if not better! and bearings that are huge. and will fit onto any standard truck. If there was such a thing out there, at the low price if we get to 100 I'd have stopped by now.

Solid mild steel rotor machined bell which also acts as a great flux ring.
Removable rubber without opening motor.
Good rubber not the no-rebound clone stuff.

torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Sep 19 2015 5:54pm

Yeah, there are quite a few.. They might not be exactly what your looking for but close.

I still find it funny everyone wants scorpion motor quality but it's really not that serious.

We don't nearly use nowhere near the quality which your recommending.

We aren't going into space or anything. lol

I think it's simply bragging rights and not usable quality.

But yeah most hub motors seem to be at about 1500 watts or so.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 19 2015 6:03pm

What hub motors?

There's limited space for the motor in the wheel so Making the space you have count is more important. I'm not trying to brag but trying to tell people there's a difference and people will often spend 4 times as much, scorpion for example of one of a couple motor companies that are considered quality components and winding vs hobby king level stuff. Hobby king and other stuff from hobbypartz or wherever is awesome. I particularly like the tacon160 at 55 bucks and 63mm and something like 3.5 horsepower. But given my choice of having the same power in 49mm? Better.

torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Sep 19 2015 6:33pm

I still think PediGlide's are awesome compared to any of the others TBH.

It's not even worth re-creating the wheel since Pedi's hub motors are pretty sweet.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

CSN   100 W

100 W
Posts: 154
Joined: Mar 05 2015 12:59am

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by CSN » Sep 19 2015 6:55pm

2nd that. Pediglides HW's are going to be killers as they continue to evolve.

Would be interesting to see new efforts with planetary gears and advanced wheel formulations to compliment hub motors.

User avatar
cmatson   100 W

100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: May 21 2015 9:55pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by cmatson » Sep 19 2015 8:08pm

Who cares if there are other hub motors out there? Who cares if he is going for the best quality?

Honestly torqueboard's you come off pretty as being pretty rude by just bashing him for making a good quality hub motor.

It is like saying Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and so on are all worthless because there are already 1,000s of cars available that do the same thing. If this was the case, we would all drive cookie cutter cars, and no one would care: but that isn't the case, there will ALWAYS be people who want more, and there's no reason to bash that. No one needs a 50k Mercedes that does the same thing as a 20k toyota but it's the added performance, luxury, and reliability that you pay for: not all about just going from point 'a' to point 'b'. In addition, competition is always good.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this motor turns out!

User avatar
sk8norcal   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2991
Joined: May 16 2010 5:29am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by sk8norcal » Sep 19 2015 9:55pm

OK, folks.
Let's focus the conversation on the technical aspect.

That's what this thread IS about.

No need to discourage other people's work.

cmatson wrote: there will ALWAYS be people who want more,
I agree, there will always be people that want the very best, even if the benefit is very small.
Case in point, the trucks for longboarding, cast vs "precision".

torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Sep 19 2015 10:09pm

Sorry if that's how it came out.. I was just discussing but good luck with it Hummina.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

User avatar
cmatson   100 W

100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: May 21 2015 9:55pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by cmatson » Sep 19 2015 10:18pm

torqueboards wrote:Sorry if that's how it came out.. I was just discussing but good luck with it Hummina.
no harm no foul!

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 19 2015 10:36pm

I don't understand the "cast vs precision" thing. Everyone is using 8mm bearings on 5/16 axle normally which is weird and not ideal. a "precision" truck is an 8mm axle and actually matches the bearings that everyone uses. So no slop. That's nice. Why not a 5/16th inch bearing to match the 5/16 axle that every non-precision truck has?

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit14240

This has the other two dimensions close enough ( 7.9 vs 7 wide is the biggest difference but wouldn't make a difference). A bit wider in the wheel but a touch of sanding and its fit. effectively give you the "precision" feel. Instead of precision it's appropriate
Attachments
image.png
image.png (4.23 KiB) Viewed 2332 times

User avatar
bandaro   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 526
Joined: Jun 01 2010 2:17am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by bandaro » Sep 20 2015 4:05am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:I don't understand the "cast vs precision" thing. Everyone is using 8mm bearings on 5/16 axle normally which is weird and not ideal. a "precision" truck is an 8mm axle and actually matches the bearings that everyone uses. So no slop. That's nice. Why not a 5/16th inch bearing to match the 5/16 axle that every non-precision truck has?

This has the other two dimensions close enough ( 7.9 vs 7 wide is the biggest difference but wouldn't make a difference). A bit wider in the wheel but a touch of sanding and its fit. effectively give you the "precision" feel. Instead of precision it's appropriate

You got the wrong end of the stick there, The 'precision' is not only referring to the axle (hell, these aren't even machined, simply extruded most of the time) it's primarily referring to the construction method of the baseplate and the hanger, and these have the main differences.

So a precision set will start out at a billet block of high grade aluminium and will then be machined to spec with a 5 axis CNC router. This allows for tighter tolerances and more accurate parts. At a basic level tolerances will be +/-0.1mm.

A cast set will be a mould that comes apart to a few pieces, and the molten aluminium will be poured into the mould and let cool before being ejected. These parts need thicker walls, have larger tolerance levels, can only fit specific methods and shapes and are on the whole larger and heavier. They are typically made using a lower quality aluminium as well. Tolerances can be up to 1mm.

Looking at the two types, you will see that the cast is larger with pits in the surface and it has draft angles as well as larger rounds. The machined on the other hand is a more compact part with a better surface, there will be less 'slop' in the movement. Machined precision parts are typically lighter, stronger and ride lower than cast, more accurate with less slop all around.

Unless you are riding to a very high skill level, I feel the benefits of precision do not outweigh the cost savings of a cast setup. Get a cast with nice wheels, bushings and ceramic bearings for less than a pair of precision trucks.
Last edited by bandaro on Sep 20 2015 6:01am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sk8norcal   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2991
Joined: May 16 2010 5:29am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by sk8norcal » Sep 20 2015 4:13am

^ Even if you are not highly skilled, you can feel the difference in the slop/play in the wheel/bearing/spacer setup. Almost all cast trucks I have, I can not crank the wheel nut down, have to do the usual back off a quarter turn.

and Yes in the longboard world, a "precision" truck does also refer to having the "8 mm" axle.
it's probably the biggest benefit of going "precision"

(should be beneficial in the e-board world also, for the cog wheel to not have slop/wiggle)

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:I don't understand the "cast vs precision" thing. Everyone is using 8mm bearings on 5/16 axle normally which is weird and not ideal. a "precision" truck is an 8mm axle and actually matches the bearings that everyone uses. So no slop. That's nice. Why not a 5/16th inch bearing to match the 5/16 axle that every non-precision truck has?

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit14240

This has the other two dimensions close enough ( 7.9 vs 7 wide is the biggest difference but wouldn't make a difference). A bit wider in the wheel but a touch of sanding and its fit. effectively give you the "precision" feel. Instead of precision it's appropriate
yeah, its not ideal, for the axle, I think it had something to do with the cheap common availablity of 5/16" steel rods.

People have mentioned the 5/16" bearings before,
I can't remember if anyone tried it.
Remembler also, the 5/16" axle needs to be slightly thinner for the bearing to slide on. (but most axles are < than 5/16" with quite a bit of inconsistent variance)

And there is an issue with have tight tolerance between the bearing and axle for the average skater out there. People get the axles wet and next a bit rust forms, now ur bearings are stuck on the axle.

torqueboards   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2940
Joined: May 27 2013 10:02pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Sep 20 2015 4:29am

Shoot... with Caliber Trucks (Casted) at about $52 bucks..
With SurfRodz Hybridsz (CNC) at $89 (Silver) $99 (colored)... It's a damn good deal IMO.
SurfRodz Classic RKP Fixed Axles $99
SurfRodz Classic RKP Adjustable Axles $159
SurfRodz Hex TKP Fixed Axles $99

Great idea to switch over.. Cool part is you can change each and every part's color for the same price (almost). All CNC made.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

User avatar
chaka   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 303
Joined: Jul 02 2015 2:42pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by chaka » Sep 20 2015 10:14am

One of the most notable aspects of precision trucks is the lack of a bent axle. All cast trucks come slightly bent from the factory. I should say they come misaligned but it has the same affect as a bent axle.

Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1769
Joined: Apr 25 2014 10:26pm

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 20 2015 11:06am

Don't know if surfrodz count, they are still largely extruded (I think that's the term ) with minimal CNCing and that's how they are so cheap.
But maybe they end with precision. They look cooler than anything else and that counts.

User avatar
LEVer   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 719
Joined: Nov 07 2012 3:29am
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by LEVer » Sep 20 2015 3:18pm

Well hurry up then... :mrgreen:


Post Reply