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Freshair   100 W

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Freshair » Apr 02 2015 10:21pm

The 'skatemotor 2' further down the page in this link looks like an interesting possibility for a pneumatic wheel set up
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?page_id=1663
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Vanarian   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Vanarian » Apr 04 2015 5:33am

Yes the idea is exactly this kind of implementation, I think this guy is the author of razerblades too, he succeded to put tiny hub motors into skates wheels with almost no protuding areas :P

But his wheels have limited power thus use, seems that he put way more time to build them than use them because it was not really usable in the end. He mentions that he did with the tools and materials he could afford and that best could be done, but seeing how clean his build was I don't know if something way more powerful can be done under the same dimensions or if we need to look at a bit bigger layout.

I kinda lack the understanding of windings to design a scratch for you, if somebody can explain what part of the stator and rotor do what, I can try.
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Freshair » Apr 04 2015 10:48am

Gotta love the ghetto roller blades he used too!
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Apr 04 2015 11:39am

@Freshair, You could always mount the motors from the outside of the trucks to get the board really low.

Hrmm.. I guess pneumatics might not be too bad.I didn't really like pneumatics though as you can't go 20-25mph on bumpy terrain without being strapped onto the board.

It's much easier going 20 to 25mph on a sturdy board.
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Freshair   100 W

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Freshair » Apr 04 2015 12:39pm

You mean like how they do it on mountain board setups? Suppose that would be an option as well, though not nearly as discreet as under the board, or a hub motor. Though that la grange truck was something I was considering a while back....though the way I ride and with my luck it would be damaged pretty quick.

Definitely would not want to take any wheel on bumpy terrain at higher speeds without being strapped in! The nice thing about pneumatics on the street, is you get a little bit of shock absorption, and would imagine shock absorption would be easier on the hubmotor and any parts attached to the board. The other nice thing about going the pneumatic route is it makes the mechanical design a whole lot less complicated, the way I am picturing it anyways. Though figuring out how to get a stem in there to fill up tires might be tricky.

Am really starting to consider making a hub motor myself, the only crap part is my electrical know how is basically nil, as far as making the parts to house the stator and magnets, that is no problem....
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Apr 04 2015 12:46pm

Google is our friend :)

I didn't like pneumatics much. Slowed down my commute and too bumpy. Not as fun.

It's actually quite fun to maneuver around objects and potholes.
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Freshair » Apr 04 2015 1:22pm

Quite enjoy the speed of urethane as well :D
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LEVer   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by LEVer » Apr 04 2015 2:49pm

You really cannot pair pneumatics with narrow skate trucks, it will tip over easily. Evolve sells a lot of their pneumatics, with custom trucks.

I also do not know why you need to put straps on, unless you plan on getting some air. A really gritty grip tape will do the trick.

If you guys are in the area, I will be at OC mini maker faire and San Mateo maker faire. You can try my pneumatics with "brushless" motors.

Hummina, I think I remember you contacted these guys: http://www.gobrushless.com/shop/index.p ... MDANmotors

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Apr 04 2015 7:06pm

gobrushless, yes. He couldnt' get any stators though.


The guy who made those hub motors in the pic has made tons of different iterations and as you might have seen on vanarians build post for his inline skates:
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?page_id=700
I wrote him about 6 months ago asking him about his doings when I made a hub motor then and he was really helpful. i forget what I was asking about, probably kv

Thanks for the iron loses vs copper loses answer to the voltage ability question vanarian. The stators I plan to use are for 60mm motors so... 12s should still be comfy in the iron loses department. What do you think?

Should be getting a couple stators from china if anyone is interested in some. They're crazy impossible to get in this country.
addicted to climbing almost finished the model and it runs..and spins..in edraw.com pretty much what's above but with a great secure pin to keep it unspinning . hopefully he'll explain it. He's a pro engineer and knows the ins and out of metal fabrication and...he wants to make the same thing so... rather not post it yet till it's done...no point talking about it either.

I'd love to get these people to make it:
https://www.solidconcepts.com/
their fully completed gun is awesome and they have a program that will give quotes at anytime on getting jobs done

too bad about this kickstarter disappearing even though they got the funding. I wonder why...maybe it has something to do with the ability to make a gun so easily at home

http://news.softpedia.com/news/New-Auro ... 9670.shtml
http://www.3dprinterworld.com/article/m ... urora-labs



pneumatics just aren't cool in my mind although I've never ridden them. The idea of strapping a board to my feet if I'm not riding on snow sounds like a recipe for a giant head wound

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Ryuudan » Apr 07 2015 11:35pm

you guys know that it has been done right? the kickstarter already ended.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/in ... =discovery

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by chuttney1 » Apr 08 2015 2:36am

Ryuudan wrote:you guys know that it has been done right? the kickstarter already ended.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/in ... =discovery
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by teamtestbot » Apr 08 2015 2:42am

You may find this interesting:
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=3501

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Vanarian   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Vanarian » Apr 08 2015 9:03am

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:gobrushless, yes. He couldnt' get any stators though.

Thanks for the iron loses vs copper loses answer to the voltage ability question vanarian. The stators I plan to use are for 60mm motors so... 12s should still be comfy in the iron loses department. What do you think?

Should be getting a couple stators from china if anyone is interested in some. They're crazy impossible to get in this country.
The majority of 60ish mm hubs I've seen so far were rated for 10 or 12S voltage, so if the one you're looking for is at least "standard" it should deal with the iron losses without much problems :)
teamtestbot wrote:You may find this interesting:
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=3501
This design is closing in! Well for skateboard it might not be best, structure seems to need to be tightened on both sides. For longboard one would want a way to fix hub motor only on one side torque arm.

For inline skates and its siblings this is not an issue.

Good find you got there!

Do you see a way to improve this to 1500W at least?
Only need to squeeze more power from this form factor and squeeze this into polyurethane wheels!

Maybe a slim cover for both sides of the cans can be achieved? I see quite wide covers on side of motors
-+AT-One project : electric inline skates - no remote, hub motors, one frame for various wheel sizes & quasi-universal boot mount

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Apr 08 2015 11:39am

Those motors are nice. They look like the Eco Reco 5" hub motors. I bet they are.....
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Vanarian   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Vanarian » Apr 10 2015 3:04pm

Torqueboards :arrow: I can't find back the post where you gave a link for Tiko 3d printer coming for November so kinda hijacking a bit the thread but Thank you! :D

I will get one or two, this thing will be pretty useful!

By the way I'd love to look into the stomach of this hub to see what can be done over it.
-+AT-One project : electric inline skates - no remote, hub motors, one frame for various wheel sizes & quasi-universal boot mount

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Apr 10 2015 3:23pm

It was in beto 3d depository thread. I backed one too lol two would be nice lol
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by torqueboards » Apr 12 2015 12:33am

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Vanarian   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Vanarian » Apr 12 2015 5:45am

torqueboards wrote:Check this out guys maybe this might speed up the process.

http://www.coroflot.com/JeffBotticello/ ... s-Personal

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Yo ... /?ALLSTEPS
Holy Grail here, thank you ! I've been spending the last hour reading all this and I'm only midway!

I'm starting to get crazy designs in mind where I couldn't even figure what was what inside these.

I'm even getting the width length ratio needed for windings and numbers of turns, defining the number of teeth might likely be highly dependent on maximum heat resistance before damaging magnets.

Hummina can your chinese contact build something as exotic as 80mm 21 teeth stators with the same core diameter as regular 50-60mm stators? This will accomodate standard 608 bearings and I am also concepting a freak now.

I haven't finished all yet but I can already tell that the total lenght of copper wires determine how much magnetic flux you can storm around the teeths. So even if teeths are bound to be spaced at the outter diameter of the stator, I am pretty confident when I say I can provide a variation of dLRK design which kills the useless space thus keep the magnetic flux strong. I'm also confident I can provide a wire design which can reduce end-turn effect to at least an average level instead of reaching ridiculous levels.

This first model should work out for my inlines as well as your MTB wheels.

I could also try to design something similar for your regular PU longboard hub motor. Like Orangatang or something like this, it looks pretty popular. But with the classic size the only thing I might be able to bring will be "low end-turn", I won't be upgrading magnetic flux in any way. There is no magic behind it after all.

If you wonder why I speak of end-turn, it is just about the part of the wiring that raises the internal resistance of the motor, but doesn't give any power back. It is like the brushless' dead weight. You can't do without it in dLRK but you can try to weaken it.

I'll keep digging!
-+AT-One project : electric inline skates - no remote, hub motors, one frame for various wheel sizes & quasi-universal boot mount

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Apr 12 2015 12:27pm

I don't understand about your stator goals. I skipped most research by assuming that a 12x14 ratio with a dLRK wind would be best. There's comparisons out there of every combination and 12x14 gets the most power yet not the most efficiency.
At this point, today, I'll be cutting two more stator's off the bearing tubes of tacon 160s and reterminating them to wye and saving the windings, also sinking the rotors in acetone to soften the epoxy and get the magnets. Getting magnets cut the right size can only be done by supemagnetman done custom and takes 3 weeks.
Getting stators at even a standard dimension was almost as expensive and this way I can keep the windings and hopefully keep the magnets as well. Getting custom laminations I didn't bother trying to do but my friend is on an exciting project making powder core stators from iron he gets from beach sand and epoxy!! Powder core supposedly is better than even lams
Marc and I are very close to done. I'm hoping next week to have the motors done. They'll be kegel copies in every way and go with surfrodz.

The thane can be done at home at room temp with an aluminum mold and a core made of many different materials.

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do you know sketchup?

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Apr 12 2015 10:00pm

I cant post what I'd like to get made on the site. The file is a skp from sketchup. If you know sketchup and feel like finishing what I have it needs the slightest thing. I paid someone $120 bucks to put from paper to a cad design what I posted before and it turns out sketchup is good enough to send to metal 3d printing manufacturers once you convert it to stl. Not that I want to three-D print it but I'm surprised how sketchup is free and easy and legit. Not easy enough though.


http://www.wseas.us/e-library/conferenc ... 98-341.pdf

By end turns maybe you mean the copper that isn't surrounded by or covered by iron. With a powder core you can make the shape so it covers the windings and then some with an "overhang". This article shows powder core performing as well as laminates but Depending on material (maybe MU metal?) They can do better. And maybe much easier to make.

Or maybe you could make a stator using very thin MU metal wire submerged in thermally conductive epoxy along with the windings ?

Haven't read this all yet but seems an easy read
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1348795

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Freshair » Apr 13 2015 2:18pm

To save your file to jpg in sketchup, go to File-Export-2d
Am somewhat proficient with sketchup, depending on what you need done can likely help you out.
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Apr 13 2015 6:05pm

I don't know how to add threading
and I cant get the two parts to mesh.
and the three drill holes aren't going through but I think I should be able to figure that. I just extrude and cut it off and sometimes it will make a hole


But MU metal has a low magnetic saturation. So great level of induction but when the current gets high, as we would do, it saturates and wouldn't work. Maybe a mix with it in would work though
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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by chuttney1 » Apr 13 2015 6:48pm

Well, if you need information on CAD software. Pretty much all of the Autodesk programs are free to students/teachers with Autodesk Fusion 360 being "free" students/teacher/hobbyist/startup. Did I mention Autodesk Fusion 360 has CAD to CAM functionality, CNC all the way... Option 2 is Solidworks...limited trial or so.... Google skectchup is free as always. Blendr is another open source modeling program. I found out through my school which happens to use both Solidworks and Autodesk though is Solidworks mostly if you're an mechanical engineer.

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Vanarian » Apr 14 2015 5:03am

For having used Blender a lot in the past, you don't want to mesh industrial designs on this, it has it all but you end up starting everything through points per points.

Use Solidworks for mechanical parts as the esquisse system will make you gain non negligible time !

I'm currently getting my home Internet installed, I'll read everything after it's done ;)
-+AT-One project : electric inline skates - no remote, hub motors, one frame for various wheel sizes & quasi-universal boot mount

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Vanarian   10 kW

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Re: community project HUB MOTOR

Post by Vanarian » Apr 14 2015 5:55pm

Hummina Shadeeba wrote:I don't understand about your stator goals. I skipped most research by assuming that a 12x14 ratio with a dLRK wind would be best. There's comparisons out there of every combination and 12x14 gets the most power yet not the most efficiency.
Glad to hear that Marc and you are close to your goal :) Well most RC models are on 12x14 layout but I've seen more powerful hub motors with a stator wound around more teeth. Assuming that you need a multiple of 3 to get an efficient dLRK, with more teeth you end up with more power. But you also need to design the stator to have enough space for this.

To be quick, my stator can't be as wide as yours without protuding too much from the wheel. Yours fits perfectly on a PU flat wheel, mine fits better on a MTB or a big inline wheel, even a scooter wheel could be hacked with this. So I keep or compensate the total magnetic surface by modifying the layout and number of teeth.

But a standard 12x14 can be also made this way, it's just that the winding would become more difficult because of more space between the teeth.
Hummina Shadeeba wrote:
By end turns maybe you mean the copper that isn't surrounded by or covered by iron. With a powder core you can make the shape so it covers the windings and then some with an "overhang". This article shows powder core performing as well as laminates but Depending on material (maybe MU metal?) They can do better. And maybe much easier to make.

Or maybe you could make a stator using very thin MU metal wire submerged in thermally conductive epoxy along with the windings ?

Haven't read this all yet but seems an easy read
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1348795
Yes I mean the cooper that only serve as a conductor and no more as a mechanical force. I didn't know differences between powder core and laminated core, but yes this is a lead.

About the layout I think I'd be able to (EDIT) design a winding around the core as to get only 1 tooth of end turn loss for 4 teeth. Crazy torque there I think.
-+AT-One project : electric inline skates - no remote, hub motors, one frame for various wheel sizes & quasi-universal boot mount

Rollo Ergo Sum!

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