Loaded Vanguard 2015 Dual VESC / Rear 12S

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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okp   100 kW

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Loaded Vanguard 2015 Dual VESC / Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 01 2015 3:16pm

hey guys, been few weeks without my board. Next riding session in Paris is tomorrow morning :)

Latemotiv here is to keep you spirit inspired !

My first thread is quite huge (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=64332), so to keep keep things clear, I started a new thread as ... I am actually thinking of building a new project, well nothing innovating; just want to have another eboard, that looks like a boosted.I don't know why but actually I just like the Vanguard.

Any tips are much appreciated !

- Deck : Loaded Vanguard 38 Flex 3
- Bearings : Biltin Abec 7
- ESC : two VESCs using CAN BUS
- Battery : Hobbyking 12S 5AH (4x3S in series) - TO BE CONFIRMED - STILL UNDER REFLEXION
- Motor setup : Dual Rear motor Enertion RSPEC 190kv
- Mount Dual Rear : Torque Bolt on v1
- Mount Wheel : Dual ADS Kegel Driver
- Wheels : Kegels 80mm 8OA
- Trucks : Caliber II 184mm Black
- Pulley Size : 15T (or 14T)
- Gear Ratio : 32T

This should give me a huge top speed with a significant torque on 12S.

Some of you may tell me that one rear motor could be enough; but I really want this extra pull provided by the two motors.

Thanks guys !

I forgot, my blog is expending progressively; I will be releasing a set of t-shirts and bunch of stickers ! If you need any review don't hesitate to contact me :D

It's in french (for the french community, I will translate that later on on my blog) but anyway, you can look at my actual visual walkthrough DIY to make yourself a carbon GT2B enclosure... learning the hard way!

http://www.e-sk8.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23

have fun!
Last edited by okp on Sep 29 2015 10:51am, edited 11 times in total.

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sl33py   10 kW

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by sl33py » Aug 03 2015 4:37pm

Hey OKP! I have a vanguard 42 flex 1. I'm significantly heavier than you at 120kg (2m helps).

(Edit - removing my setup so you can focus on OKP's build)

Look forward to following this new build! Your last was one i kept coming back to watch. Great craftsmanship!
Last edited by sl33py on Aug 05 2015 12:31am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by vedder » Aug 03 2015 5:01pm

okp and sl33py: nice builds!

okp: for 12S, a 295 kv motor is not a good idea. Use 200kv or less if possible.

If you have the nyko kama nunchuk and VESC, you should really connect it directly to the VESC without the wiiceiver. It will give you a much better experience with direction change, configurable smoothing for the throttle and closed loop cruise control. I just pushed an improvement for the nunchuk cruise control now and in my test drive it worked perfectly smooth.

I have also been using my custom nyko kama with NRF tranceivers for a while now. Since I made the latest updates, it is super reliable and smooth. It also has power saving features now so that the AAA batteries last for over a year in standby or several days when running. The code is updated on github and implemented in the latest VESC firmware. I will make some tests with jacobs boards when I get them.

Another update I have that might be interesting for your boards is that I have ordered a PCB that I designed for a power/anti-spark switch. It can handle 3s to 12s and more amps than needed. It can be controlled from a tiny switch and even when the switch is left on, the is no spark when connecting the battery.

Yet another update is that I'm working on a weight-sensing longboard. The PCBs for strain gauges are ready and tested and I will make the first test drive in a few days :-)
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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by onloop » Aug 03 2015 7:30pm

vedder wrote:
Yet another update is that I'm working on a weight-sensing longboard. The PCBs for strain gauges are ready and tested and I will make the first test drive in a few days :-)
I am glad you are still working on electric skateboard innovations. It is an addictive hobby.

I really think the strain gauges have some huge potential. For anyone that followed justins build they would probably agree.

The theory is really simple, lean forward to accelerate and back to brake... I think it is very intuitive.

However I believe the reason the "strain gauge" method of control has not been more broadly accepted is that setting up somthing like this is too complex for most of us....

Not many people know how to build the circuit that can filter the input and give a functional output into a standard ESC.

If you can somehow can make the VESC interface directly with the strain gauges, using auto detection and minimal configuration & compute/process the input "onboard" the vesc it will be a game changer!

I am ready to start testing!

I'm am truley glad you like skateboards vedder! Legend.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by akiraEC » Aug 04 2015 1:15am

The antispark and power switch integration in the beach would be a great add-on. Great news !!

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 04 2015 3:41am

hey !

thanks a lot for your feedback; I will try to make this new build as sleek as possible. I will opt for the vanguard in flex 3; I think 42 is too much for me. Only challenge will be handling the flex impact on the enclosures. I really want this to look like a boosted... but with real boost !

According to your messages, I have modified the setup (motor is now 190kv)

- Deck : Loaded Vanguard 38 Flex 3
- ESC : two VESCs
- Battery : Hobbyking 12S 5AH (4x3S in series)
- Motor setup : Dual Rear motor with Enertion 170kv
- Wheels : Kegels 80mm 8OA
- Trucks : Caliber
- Pulley Size : 15T
- Gear Ratio : 32T

Regarding the wii nunchuck, I have bad memories about it. My only fall at 30km/h was (90% sure) cause by using the wii receiver + Nunchuck. So I am quite afraid of using it again.

Nevertheless; I am open to do it :)
That's it!
Last edited by okp on Aug 04 2015 8:25am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by vedder » Aug 04 2015 5:00am

okp wrote: Regarding the wii nunchuck, I have bad memories about it. My only fall at 30km/h was (90% sure) cause by using the wii receiver + Nunchuck. So I am quite afraid of using it again.

Nevertheless; I am open to do it :)
I thought you were using it with the wiiceiver anyway, and then it would be better to connect the nunchuk directly with the VESC for a much better experience. The reliability won't become any better, so if you have problems with the nunchuk you shouldn't use it. The modified nunchuk I'm using is perfectly reliable so far and hopefully it will become available soon. Having a digital connection for the joystick and buttons and two-way communication is just so much better than using pwm signal.
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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 04 2015 5:22am

awesome, I am riding in Paris downtown, so maybe there could be interference or something that has cause the sudden stop with my wiireceiver and the nunchuck.

I am really open to use your upcoming nunchuck ! keep me posted !!!!

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by onloop » Aug 04 2015 7:59am

Just to clarify. The NEW Edition Enertion 6355 R-SPEC motor is 190kv.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 04 2015 8:25am

hey jason, good point. I modified my post.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by whitepony » Aug 09 2015 2:46pm

I was toying around with a boosted dual+ rebuilt too. also a huge kegel fan myself, but wasnt sure which transmission/KV to use. 190KV with 12S and 15/32 gearing with 80mm wheels means a potential max of 60km/h, or did a make a mistake here? that seems WAY too high for the flexy loaded vanguard cruise deck! for that kind of speed, youd need a real downhill machine - stiff with the right shaping to lock in your feet. the vanguard doesnt have any concave from what I remember.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 09 2015 3:00pm

yes, you are right :>

already got my downhill machine. I really like the vanguard and want to make a boosted look board :)

If I get any wobble around 40/50km or weird behaviour or depending on the flex when building the board, I will add a carbon topsheet to reduce the flex :)

this board is going to be fun !

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by jamesonotc » Aug 09 2015 7:35pm

onloop wrote:Just to clarify. The NEW Edition Enertion 6355 R-SPEC motor is 190kv.

Are these new edition motors suitable for use with 12s ?

If so I may pull the trigger on them tonight.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by sl33py » Aug 09 2015 11:39pm

jamesonotc wrote:
onloop wrote:Just to clarify. The NEW Edition Enertion 6355 R-SPEC motor is 190kv.

Are these new edition motors suitable for use with 12s ?

If so I may pull the trigger on them tonight.
They should be. These are the motors i just got installed/mounted on Caliber 50's now for my next board. Shot you a PM James, can bring them over and test them if you'd like. I'm planning on running them 12s.

OKP - are you going to router out a spot for your batteries on the loaded like you did on your current board? Carbon Fiber reinforced?

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by kimboviper » Aug 10 2015 12:12am

sounds cool but not sure how a vanguard would handle 25+mph speeds... im itching to build a 35+mph dual diagonal or mountainboard tho :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

okp your builds are awesome btw keep posting up pictures and videos!

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 10 2015 1:09am

sl33py : routing out was quite straightforward on my Fibretech FlyPan 940/2015 cause it's a downhill deck; really stiff and STRONG! It has already some fiberglass reinforcement. Nevertheless, by routing out I introduced some flex, which was really nice. I added a snappy flex with Carbon Fiber. For the Vanguard, I really don't know yet; I will find out one I get my hands on it. Adding carbon fiber is a really benefit in my opinion. I will make the enclosure similar to boosted. I wish I could run the wires on the top of the deck as boosted did, only drawback is that I will need to drill the board and I am not sure it will not weaken it; even if I route the two discharge extension. Don't know yet too !

kimboviper : don't know too, I will try progressively. Almost sure I am going to add a carbon fiber sheet on the top of the deck as I did with my current board. I will also try to replicate the same grip look :) thanks for your kind feedback on my builds ! I learnt a lot here and giving back to the community is normal. I am actually continuing to develop my blog and a french forum on electric longboard riding as this is growing in France. I will also try to check with vendors/beta builders to review their stuff cause I like trying new things!

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 11 2015 1:57pm

guys, any thought on these lipos ? I am barely using my existing 5000mAH of my existing deck on 12S dual and 63mm motors. I will have two decks, so I am interested in these:

Turnigy nano-tech A-SPEC 4500mah 3S 65~130C Lipo Boat Pack

Image

these are a bit expensive (45 euro per lipo), but they are ultra flat (around 8mm less than the Turnigy 5AH 3S 20C)
Capacity: 4500mAh
Voltage: 3S1P / 3 Cell / 11.1V
Discharge: 65C Constant / 130C+ Burst
Weight: 278g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 150x44x19.5mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 5.5mm Bullet connector
65C constant is way too much for my use but too much is not enough right?

I also found this one... OVERKILL 150C... 100 USD per pack
137mm x 45mm x 22mm, 294g

4000mah capacity
3-cell 11.1 volts
True 150C rating
Lifetime warranty
5C fast charge capable
100% waterproof
4000mAH charging in 20 minutes (20C) - 3800 mAH usable with a cutoff at 3.4V

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by sl33py » Aug 11 2015 4:09pm

OKP - i like the A-Spec 4500's! I might have to use similar on my next build.

What motor mounts are you going to use?

I test fitted my new Enertion R-Spec 190kv's to the new Torque/DIY adjustable motor brackets - PLENTY of room even w/ the wider wheel pulleys!! I could run dual 15mm belts...

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 11 2015 4:14pm

Thanks, I updated the first post of this thread. Two RSPEC and Two Bolt on. Problem is to find pulleys and drivers to get this 15mm belt fit :) Not sure someone is releasing Kegel 32T 15mm wheel drivers. You made your test with 184mm trucks ?

Do you have any photos to share?

some close up photos of the Torque Bolt Mount (sorry it's for the french community, no english translation yet)

http://www.e-sk8.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=50
Last edited by okp on Aug 11 2015 4:23pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by torqueboards » Aug 11 2015 4:20pm

Nice! Yeah with the 6350/6355 type motors, you could easily fit two motors with 15mm belts on a dual rear.

SK3 63mm / BigFoot 63mm / Enertion 190KV 63mm
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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by sl33py » Aug 11 2015 5:53pm

okp wrote:Thanks, I updated the first post of this thread. Two RSPEC and Two Bolt on. Problem is to find pulleys and drivers to get this 15mm belt fit :) Not sure someone is releasing Kegel 32T 15mm wheel drivers. You made your test with 184mm trucks ?

Do you have any photos to share?

some close up photos of the Torque Bolt Mount (sorry it's for the french community, no english translation yet)

http://www.e-sk8.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=50
Image
Quick cell phone pic of them. I'd like to gear down one more tooth if i can find 12t motor gear, these are the 13t. Similarly wish there was a 36 or 40t wheel gear option for 12s setup!

Torque - beautiful adjustable brackets and extremely impressed.
Onloop - haven't run the motors yet, but they are gorgeous and feel like quality.

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by jamesonotc » Aug 11 2015 6:13pm

What is the best size trucks to get with use for the torque mounting brackets? I will use dual rear and like these newly anodized adjustable you have shown sl33py.

Can you recommend the truck size/brand to get?

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by sl33py » Aug 11 2015 6:38pm

jamesonotc wrote:What is the best size trucks to get with use for the torque mounting brackets? I will use dual rear and like these newly anodized adjustable you have shown sl33py.

Can you recommend the truck size/brand to get?
Those are just regular 'ol Caliber 2 50's - 10"/184mm. Melon green color since they were like $5 less than elsewhere and prime...

James - Want to meetup with you anyway for VESC's, so can bring these to check them out.

One thing i'd recommend is 270 or 275 belt instead of 280 if you are using 13/32 like me. 16/32 fits perfect (what Torque ships you).

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Re: E-SK8.FR / Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by torqueboards » Aug 11 2015 7:11pm

Haha nice Sl33py!

I will have 265mm belts soon. They are on their way. Will have them in 9mm and 15mm widths.
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Re: Busted Board - Loaded Vanguard Dual Rear 12S

Post by okp » Aug 12 2015 12:43am

thanks sleepy, this help me much ! it seems we are going for the same setup ! that's really great !

plenty of space to go for 15mm, unfortunately I don't think someone is selling the Otang Kegel driver in 15mm width; as I know ADS has Kegel 5mm driver. I am running 9mm pulleys for quite a while (I mean on the roads of Paris) and these are performing flawlessly; not even a tear.

can't wait to see your build going on - I should be getting the board today

thanks for your kind proposal to get some additional "surface" photos; I don't have any access to boosted board in Paris, seems none have one because they can't be shipped (regulations or stuff like that);

my interest are on the bottom of the deck, way the wired the batterie to go through the deck :)

I also confirm that Torque Bolt motor mount is awesome, no need to sand anything, two holes on the side to manage putting a sleek motor cover. I will add that :)

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