Enhanced board (work in progress)

Hi ladies and gentlemans.

First of all i'm french,so... sorry about my English.

I wish to thank you all for this great forum, and also the french forum http://www.skate-electrique-forum.com/ , and the recently okp's forum http://www.e-sk8.fr/forum/ .

I have already done most of the research and listing parts of my project but I really wish to introduce it to you before I start, just because more advice is always best.

But before go in the subject, I had to make a quick (and boring) chapter about me because it's really big part of my reflexion and will help you to understand my choices.

Me, Myself and I:

I have a genetical desease, to resume it, my body can't regulate overheating (my own, the environemental) and then i'm overheating I got pain like electrical spark all over my feet and my hand.
I know my physical limits to prevent it and i've got air conditionning in my appartment and my job but in consequence I just can't do sports and things that requires too big or too long effort (walk over 2 miles if the weather is cold is my max range, and as you can imagine summer is my ennemy )

Chapter close

So with development of individual electrical véhicules, i've got hope, but most of them are too heavy for me.
Few weeks ago I discover electric skateboard and here I am, that's why I call my project Enhanced board.

So my goals for this project is lighweight (under 7 kg) and range ( 25/30 km range) in priority, top speed 25/30km/h will be plenty enough.

I'm 1m71 tall and my weight is 50 kg if it can help.

Parts listing

APS 150Amp 4.4KW Twin motors E-board DIY Kit : http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/dual-m ... d-diy-kit/
on the way

Dual TorqueBoards Bolt On Motor Mount v1 for caliber 2 black 16T/36T: http://diyelectricskateboard.com/produc ... -mount-v1/
done

Alien Antispark Power Switch 2-14S 120Amp MAX: http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/electr ... 20amp-max/
on the way

3*http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10285__Turnigy_5800mAh_2S_25C_Lipo_Pack.html
done

2* Orangatang Kege/Beercan Smooth 76mm Hub Drive Adaptor in 36T: http://www.aliendrivesystems.com/store/ ... aptor.html

Controler/receiver: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ttery.html
done

charging: http://www.flashrc.com/hyperion/1886-chargeur_eos0606i_ad_lipo_life_12v_220v_1_6s_6a_50w.html merci okp hypérion marque bien réputé apparemment.
done

display lcd/wattmeter: http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Fr-Free-Ship...id=100005&rk=2&rkt=5&mehot=ag&sd=181280471727
on the way

I Already have a complete board wich is a Rayne Blackboard with caliber trucks 184 (50) and Orangatang 80mm.

This board wasn't my goal at first i wish to go for Vanguard because of is lighweight but the seller (I told him about electric longboarding and also my physical restriction) guided me to this one because of the big noob I am in longboarding so best for learning, and maybe switch later for a vanguard once i'm feeling more comfortable and experimented as he say.

Making a short session to practice the board without electric few night's ago (1hour), first fall, i reached my limit's and got to take a cold shower, but so fun and really consolidate me into electric skateboard .


That's all for me moment, I apologize for the boring chapter and thank you all for any advice or comment on my setup.

Have a nice day.

welcome ! nice to see you here. ES is really a great community!

Thanks okp, yeah even if i'm not so much comfortable in English great source of inspiration.

Congrats for your new forum a lot, wishing succes .

Haha French Forum is very popular Welcome... Thanks for sharing.

Hey guys, so with 76 view on the post and no suggestion by the community, i'm thinking the setup is ok.

Next step collecting parts .

Hey ladies and gentlemans;

I update the top post for the parts and shared here some photos of the parts I have.

Now we're talking!








Really happy with the motormounts, they looks great, high feelings of quality and strong. The packaging is great and efficient for the travel, and follow shipping by internet and your mail is great.

Very little drawback (not sur the word is good): no instructional at the moment; of course it's not really complicated, but it would give some great information about the way for some pieces, if you look above on my photos for exemple, i'm not sure of the way of the trucks adaptor, even for the motorplate itself.
There is actualy 2 holes on the trucks adaptor but seems no screws in the package for it, or i missed something.

So really good product, wish my comment will help you improve some tiny détails (that's the purpose of them) and wish you great succes with it because you did a really really great job.

So still waiting for my Alien power ordered on august 13, contact Bruno by mail, he answered that i had maybe ordered a backorder item; but that's not possible on his website to click when an item is backorder as a member just told me right.

So still waiting for answer from Bruno ...

edit: Alien power not alien drive I made a mistake between them

Hi Vulthor,

You can mount the truck adapters inside or outside depending on how much clearing you need/have. You can only mount them outside if your using my drive wheel they will still have clearance.

Which other two screws were you referring too?

torqueboards said:

Hi Vulthor,

You can mount the truck adapters inside or outside depending on how much clearing you need/have. You can only mount them outside if your using my drive wheel they will still have clearance.

Which other two screws were you referring too?

Click to expand...

Thanks for your answer about the inside/outside situation.

For the screws, i will take some photos to détail what I mean.

Click on pictures to have it big, i circled in red the screw holes i'm referring to.

Ok, so got some news from Bruno, and will have my delivery next week.

Then i'm will start building, i'm happy, can't wait

Those are the set screws M4 threaded. They aren't needed but could be used.

Ok, thanks for quick answering torqueboards.

I will probably take advice from okp if it's better to use it or not.

Again your motor mount are gorgeous 8)

good luck Vulthor I keep on eyes on you here too :wink:

Thanks Riko :wink: .

Edit for photos size issues on post Fri Aug 21.

Got my 2* Orangatang Kege/Beercan Smooth 76mm Hub Drive Adaptor in 36T today from alien drive (seems really good and solid) and got nice moment with french members of E-SK8.fr

Having some try on members boards, really consolidate my motivation on my project, even if it will take some time to me just to get my legs stronger and more confortable just you know cruising, carving etc...

Made a stupid fall on Rikobonito board because after a selfpush and start the board well ... it was on the wrong way .. shame on me at the moment but big laugh ; good test for the g form elbow protection in fact, really effective.

I really enjoy meet riders, it was really fun, and the spot in Paris downside bridge Alexandre III along the quai de Seine is sweet; can't wait to have my board finish and cruising in Paris with my girlfriend or riders and discover this city that I just never explore in 10 years because of my physical restrictions.

With some lucky my APS dualmotor kit will be shipped this week and so maybe my setup will be finished really soon .

Ok so quick update, because my order from Alien power system had been made on 13 August, and Bruno isn't able to send me a delivery date, I cancelled my order and ask for refund.

I will go for another dual motor/esc/antispark and power switch from torqueboards or enertion, don't know yet because of my 36/16 gearing I've got for the 270 kv motors.

Another opportunity is to consider sensored motor, but really don't know the benefit of them since start pushing is not a problem for me, but got much concern about a smoothest acceleration and better brake management.

Sensored motors will also meen a compatible esc, don't really know if torqueboards got it to go with his 170kv motors; Enertion seems to have vesc but no sensored motors.

Last thing is to go for dual rear instead of dual diagonal, really hesitate on that.

So if you guys can tell me about benefit to go sensored or not?

For reminder keep an eye on my first post for my restriction, wishes and my weight.

Bonjour Vulthor!

Sorry for your issue with APS. I had similar and hope your refund is faster than mine (~30 days). I'll not support APS again as a result.

So re-looking at your requirements and needs here's my summary so please correct me if not accurate:

You are 50kg/110lbs, want a board <7kg/15lbs, and want range of 25-30km/15-18mi? Top speed of 25-30kph/15-18mph?

Only major item i feel is missing is how big of hills you expect you will want to ride up? From my one trip to Paris i don't recall major hills at least along the Seine (gorgeous walk - very jealous for my french brethren).

I can appreciate the desire to have a dual motor and thing that dual rear or dual diagonal would work great for you.

My major question is - do you *need* dual motor at all? *Want* being one thing, and we all expect to overbuild our boards gives us room to grow later on.

I'm just thinking that a single 63mm motor and VESC might be more than adequate for your needs. AND LIGHTER. Considering that when i weighed my Caliber truck, dual DIYes/Torque v1 motor mounts, Dual R-Spec 63mm motors - i was already at 6.5lbs/3kg! With your proposed weight target of <7kg/15lbs i think this is your major challenge.

My GF's Vanguard with single motor is around 16lbs, and should have a range of about 8-10mi (Dual 3/4s 8Ah = 6/8s).

With the smaller wheels 76 vs 83mm, and a smaller motor 50mm vs 63mm i think your <7kg is doable. Dual motors however i think you will be over your desired weight limit quickly.

I looked to see the Rayne Blackboard's weight, but had trouble finding that model - an older one perhaps? Or called something else? Maybe a pic would help, but mostly irrelevant other than checking the boards weight by itself. (always loved Rayne boards btw - they are just above me in BC - great quality boards!)

If power is more important than weight - i think a dual motor board would be a blast! Gearing might be a challenge to limit your speed to max at 18mph (which is pretty fast when you are on the board). If you are running your 3 2s batteries in series here's my calculations which i've found to be pretty accurate: (Considering your original motor picked - 2 x 50mm Alien motors, 270KV, 2200watt, 60Amp, 50mmx65mm)

Diameter Motor KV Battery S/V M pully Hub pulley

76 270 6 15 36

Speed= KPH 38.684304
Speed= MPH 23.30379759
actual speed 19.57518998

Click to expand...

Sensored vs not sensored... that is the question! VESC is pretty amazing without sensors, but i've heard good things from those who've run the VESC with a sensored motor... If you were to get the VESC's and Torque/DIYes' 170kv sensored motors you'd need to run diagonal (they are 50mm x 65mm). I ran dual rear 5065 (Torque's previous non-sensored 200kv model), but used Paris 195 trucks with two 5mm CF spacers to get enough room. You can see them here:


If you go to 170kv motors i shows your speeds like so:

Diameter Motor KV Battery S/V M pully Hub pulley

76 170 6 15 36

Speed= KPH 24.356784
Speed= MPH 14.67276145
actual speed 12.32511961

Click to expand...

So either increase voltage to 8/10/12s, or change motor gears as well. Looks like going to 8s (adding one more 2s pack in series) plus going to 16t motor gear:

Diameter Motor KV Battery S/V M pully Hub pulley

76 170 8 16 36

Speed= KPH 34.64075947
Speed= MPH 20.86792739
actual speed 17.52905901

Click to expand...

Again - one motor can do this - especially a 63mm motor. I'm 120kg'ish (265-270lbs - 6'8"/2m) and have ridden single 50mm(200kv), dual 50mm(200kv), single 63mm(149/200kv), and soon'ish dual 63mm (190kv R-Spec). Never an issue going fast enough on the flats with my weight - just acceleration and hills.

Bon Chance!

Bonjour Vulthor!

Sorry for your issue with APS. I had similar and hope your refund is faster than mine (~30 days). I'll not support APS again as a result.

Click to expand...

Hi sl33py , thanks for your support and quick detailed answer. Same will not recommend APS in future.

So re-looking at your requirements and needs here's my summary so please correct me if not accurate:

You are 50kg/110lbs, want a board <7kg/15lbs, and want range of 25-30km/15-18mi? Top speed of 25-30kph/15-18mph?

Click to expand...

That's correct

Only major item i feel is missing is how big of hills you expect you will want to ride up? From my one trip to Paris i don't recall major hills at least along the Seine (gorgeous walk - very jealous for my french brethren).

Click to expand...

Well in fact I am in a side of Paris called "Butte aux cailles" with some serious hills, for exemple when i go movie theater there is one i think is 15%.

My major question is - do you *need* dual motor at all? *Want* being one thing, and we all expect to overbuild our boards gives us room to grow later on.

Click to expand...

I'm quite hesitate in dual when i thnking of my project, as you mentionned especially for the weight, but in my case if I can't climb a hill with my board and have to carry the board to the top of it, in winter it's duable but in summer I can't do this, or if I do I certainly got my pain issues. There is always the possibility of taking bus or subway but as mentionned due to the heat in summer it's not an option for me.

So that's why i'll go dual even if it meens a heavyweight, because in fact it's safiest in my case (for my experience with my genetic desease)

I looked to see the Rayne Blackboard's weight

Click to expand...

My bad it's the Rayne Darkside deck :wink:

Sensored vs not sensored... that is the question! VESC is pretty amazing without sensors, but i've heard good things from those who've run the VESC with a sensored motor... If you were to get the VESC's and Torque/DIYes' 170kv sensored motors you'd need to run diagonal (they are 50mm x 65mm).

Click to expand...

Yeah dual diag sensored with 2 vesc could be great, i'm a bit afraid of vesc because of the skill requirement, but okp could probably help to this.

Actually my gearing is 36/16, 80mm orangoutang kegel and yeah 3*2s 5800mAh if you can made a quick calc i'll much appreciate.

Again thank you very much

That makes sense. If you are absolutely determined to run dual motors i'm with you - it's nice. I had the dual 5065 200kv motors on my e-Gbomb that was AMAZING. one run at 30mph wasn't smart, but day to day it'd do 25mph easily. 8Ah = 9-10 miles with *me* on it. At your weight i'm betting your range will be much better.

Unless you do some crazy modifications i don't think dual 5065 will fit on Caliber trucks. Simply stacking speedrings as spacers i'd see just how far you can push one motor out from the mid-line. It will be obvious if you can or cannot fit them both on the rear truck.

Gearing. Sure here's two quick adjustments with your 80mm wheels:
The 'code' insert seems to hold the formatting a bit better than quote or plain text. obviously not code but i think it works better to visualize.

Same setup but on 8s:


Are there other motors (kv specifically) besides the sensored 170kv 5065 you are contemplating using? I can re-run the calcs if so.

Thanks Sl33py,

I will probably go on dual diagonal with torqueboard 50mm 170kv, the 27km/h will be fine, and with my weight probably downside between 24/25 km/h, on 6s, it will be ok for me, maybe upgrade on 8s later with practice.

So next I have to choose the Vesc to go with, because I remind there is 2/3 differently for it.

So got to read the differences between them.

Thanks so much for your calc and support .

i would definitely recommend a pair of 4s batteries for later... if nothing else as a swap pack since you want range of 15-18miles. Your 5.8Ah will likely only go about 6 miles. So carry a spare back will double your range and also not be weight in the board (in your backpack/bag instead).

I might recommend the next size larger motor pulley 17 or 18 if you can easily find one. Looks like Enertion and DIYes both max at 15 and 16 respectively. I got some custom pulleys from onlinebelting.com a while back but they are $$. Might be less $ since you are a lot closer to the UK than me? Just realize that going up that large on the motor pulley likely will mean you need to get longer belts to go around the larger diameter gear. Try one of the calculators or see if others have some longer belts to test. I've found that 13-14-15 usually equaled 265-270-275 length adjustments for 36t rear wheel w/ DIYes v1 mount. My experience and comparing with others here with nearly identical setups.

VESC - get the latest 4.8 from Enertion. Don't buy the 4.7 version as there is a lot of development and improvements refined into the new 4.8. I've not seen the list of what is improved, but i trust Vedder and if it required a hardware change to the PCB it's what i want.

Good luck my friend! Can't wait to see this build and some video of you riding with okp!

Dam going vesc from enertion and motor from torqueboards will be pricefull because of the taxe for so far shipment.

When I ordered the bolt motor mounts it was a 100$.

I've got to keep a moment for thinking .

Good luck my friend! Can't wait to see this build and some video of you riding with okp!

Click to expand...

Thank's a lot. Same

Looking back at the pictures you posted of your motor mount and gears - i would stick with the gears you have already! If you do dual diagonal you can also use 15mm wide belts which will give more positive traction for accelerating and braking (probably not an issue for your 50kg, but nice still). It will have more rolling resistance so less easy to push, but will have some small drag when not on the throttle/accelerating which can be nice sometimes.

GL!

sl33py said:

Looking back at the pictures you posted of your motor mount and gears - i would stick with the gears you have already! If you do dual diagonal you can also use 15mm wide belts which will give more positive traction for accelerating and braking (probably not an issue for your 50kg, but nice still). It will have more rolling resistance so less easy to push, but will have some small drag when not on the throttle/accelerating which can be nice sometimes.

GL!

Click to expand...

Thanks again Sl33py, If once you come France your help will allow you a good pinte of Bier

Making some research and that's the 3 choice that I have:

-2 motors 50mm 170kv Sensored with dual ESC sensored from Torqueboards : The most simple

-2 motors 50mm 170kv Sensored from Torqueboards with 2 Vesc from Ampcite or jamesonotc, (got to find how use sensored with Vesc) : Top setup

-2 motors 63mm 190kv with 2 Vesc from Enertion : Priceless (actually free shipping and add 10% off until 7 october)

Really hard choice in fact.