Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional

Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:15 pm

Hi, I need some help with my build.. Its my first build so I have some strange questions))
Planning to go 25-30mph and 10 miles range or so
Motor: Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 6374-192kv Brushless Outrunner Motor ( no hall sensor installation, Im not ready for this)

Lipo choice: (need help)
1. total 12s out of 3 x (Multistar High Capacity 4S 10000mAh Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack 10C ) - best price for 1000mah but im not sure that 10C Discharge will work here?
2. total 12s out of 3 x (4S Turnigy 7200mAh 14.8V Hardcase Pack 40C )
3. should I go 12S in this build? and.. is it better to go 2x6S than 3x? whats the difference? I believe that its easier to charge 2x6S than 3x4S...
Controller
4. I have no clue what controller to buy, something simple and not pricey. I believe I need ESC that can handle 100-120A, Is is correct?
5. Can I use my stock ESR thumb throttle with ESC u choose from №4? Or I Need to buy something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-Ebike-Elect ... 2a4fc74906
6. Sprockets. Please tell me what sprockets do I need? I know its 8mm but how many teeth? What about wheel sprocket? Someone mentioned this site http://www.surpluscenter.com
7. Charger. Is it a good choice for me Turnigy MEGA 1000W 8S 40A + PC Power supply 500-700W http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__ ... arger.html

Thank you!
Last edited by SarDoX on Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby sl33py » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:09 pm

SarDox - you are all over the place but i'll try to answer a couple i feel i can help with.

1,2,3 - 12s setup. I think this is going to depend on your physical space limits, budget, and Amps needed. I hope you understand how "c" works - so the 10Ah 10C packs will deliver (rated) 100A continuous. Peak C is 20C for 10 seconds (again - rated) so 200A peak. Do you know what your motor will draw max to try and build the batteries sufficiently to provide? I would usually try to not stress the batteries at their constant Amp load if you can help it (batter life likely impacted), if they can even sustain that in real world use (remember it's marketing so take it with a grain of salt).

3/4 - Do you need 12s? Higher voltage usually gives you more power, is more efficient, and lower amps. BUT you need a more expensive controller, charger, etc.
"Simple and not pricey" - good luck. If you want not pricey you are going to be limited to </=6s with most hobby RC Car ESC's like the EZRUN/XERUN/FVT options.
8s and larger ESC's quickly become spendy. And don't get a heli or boat one to save $. You will also need the programmer (card, or software) for any ESC you get. All will need some tweaks to brakes especially for carrying a human vs a RC car.
I would recommend looking at the VESC (i admit i'm a fanboy) - but it's not really "simple". If you can follow directions and some common sense you'll be fine.

5-6 - Check out one of the existing builds to see how it was geared and ask questions. But make sure you are taking into account the motor used. The 6374 motor will not have the power of an 80mm motor like some use, so you will need to gear it down more to run effectively.

7 - get the best charger you can. I really like the iCharger line. It's an investment if you plan on doing this for a while. I'd probably skip that power supply and just get a Dell Server power supply off ebay for 35-70$ (70$ would be dual power supplies in series for 24v).

Welcome and GL!
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build - HELP NEEDED

Postby sl33py » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:19 pm

SarDoX wrote: I believe that its easier to charge 2x6S than 3x4S...


If you can stick to a single connector (which i recommend), something like a paraboard or balance board will make charging 2,3, or 4 lipos a breeze. Standardizing to a single connector type now will save you down the road but means swapping connectors. Soldering heavy wire takes a little practice, but with a good iron is totally doable.

I like the XT60/XT90 connectors as my preferred currently. Though i've run the Deans and Traxxas for years before picking the XT's. Look at the XT90 anti-spark and that's really an outstanding reason to go with them over other IMO. The 60vs90 equals their rated Amp constant capacity. So if you are planning a high amp setup - in general you are going to want some beefier connectors.

GL!
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:39 pm

sl33py wrote:SarDox - you are all over the place but i'll try to answer a couple i feel i can help with.

1,2,3 - 12s setup. I think this is going to depend on your physical space limits, budget, and Amps needed. I hope you understand how "c" works - so the 10Ah 10C packs will deliver (rated) 100A continuous. Peak C is 20C for 10 seconds (again - rated) so 200A peak. Do you know what your motor will draw max to try and build the batteries sufficiently to provide? I would usually try to not stress the batteries at their constant Amp load if you can help it (batter life likely impacted), if they can even sustain that in real world use (remember it's marketing so take it with a grain of salt).

3/4 - Do you need 12s? Higher voltage usually gives you more power, is more efficient, and lower amps. BUT you need a more expensive controller, charger, etc.
"Simple and not pricey" - good luck. If you want not pricey you are going to be limited to </=6s with most hobby RC Car ESC's like the EZRUN/XERUN/FVT options.
8s and larger ESC's quickly become spendy. And don't get a heli or boat one to save $. You will also need the programmer (card, or software) for any ESC you get. All will need some tweaks to brakes especially for carrying a human vs a RC car.
I would recommend looking at the VESC (i admit i'm a fanboy) - but it's not really "simple". If you can follow directions and some common sense you'll be fine.

5-6 - Check out one of the existing builds to see how it was geared and ask questions. But make sure you are taking into account the motor used. The 6374 motor will not have the power of an 80mm motor like some use, so you will need to gear it down more to run effectively.

7 - get the best charger you can. I really like the iCharger line. It's an investment if you plan on doing this for a while. I'd probably skip that power supply and just get a Dell Server power supply off ebay for 35-70$ (70$ would be dual power supplies in series for 24v).

Welcome and GL!

Thank you very much! Tons of info!!
Will 6S + TURNIGY 6374 + EZRUN/XERUN/FVT give me 25-30mph and good efficiency?

VESC is sold out till November, what else can I go? .. CASTLE CREATIONS? I was expecting to spend around $100 for ESC...

I have a 30W iron and 1500w heat gun, should be enough for soldering 12AWG (or 10AWG).. I do really want to have only one connector type everywhere
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build - HELP NEEDED

Postby sl33py » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:00 pm

glad i could help. I don't have a scooter, but stayed at a holiday inn last night. :roll:

My e-board experience says that with your budget you are not going to be going 30mph with this setup. I think you should start reading up on MrDude's build here. GREAT WRITEUP and should be something you read until it makes sense. Then ask questions.

I have an xls sheet that let's me calculate top speed by gearing for e-boards. I don't have the same for a scooter, so i can't help with your top speed goal.

I would emulate as much of MrDude's setup as you can afford and are able to do as a starting point. I would go with a smaller pack to start with that gear ratio, then once you know it works i would add more in parallel or just increase total capacity at that # series to increase range. I might go with 6s to start, and then plan on 12s w/ VESC when one is available.

For $100 you are going to struggle to get a 6s capable XERUN or FVT. If you want a castle it will be more. I have a mamba xl2 and it was about $200 iirc. I prefer the VESC. 30w iron should work if you are patient and get a good solder on the heavier wire.

Parallel charging boards are nice. Here's my favorite ones (from BuddyRC), but you can also get some bare wire ones from HK for *cheap*!
Image
I would get the paraboard with your chosen connector if available, or bare wire and solder on the xt90 if that's the one you choose.

GL!
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build - HELP NEEDED

Postby SarDoX » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:17 am

After all I ended up with VESC ESC, 6374 192kv motor, 2*4s 16000mah = 8s total 32000mah 31v and gearing 56/11 and got 20mph at 1st run

Motor mount was done from homedepot steel plate for 2$ that fits perfectly
from tools I used only dremel and drill

Now I want to change motor sprocket to 15-16t to get 25-27mph, dont think Its safe to go faster than that

here are some pics
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:29 pm

dude, if you gear a 6374 to go 30mph, it WILL just burn up the motor.

Trust me, I know. I just rode my goped to work at 37mph the whole way here... and my motor is 4 times your size plus I have a cooling fan built into it.
I really need to update my thread here about it. was not an easy build.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:10 pm

MrDude_1 wrote:dude, if you gear a 6374 to go 30mph, it WILL just burn up the motor.

Trust me, I know. I just rode my goped to work at 37mph the whole way here... and my motor is 4 times your size plus I have a cooling fan built into it.
I really need to update my thread here about it. was not an easy build.

ohh thanks for the info
right now at 20mph motor is warm not hot.. but at 30 it can be hot, even with my 130lbs
do u think 25mph is going to be good? its 56/14 gearing and gear ratio is 4:1

also I saw someone added a fan to the motor from the side

p.s. I dont think it safe to go 37mph even with helmet and other body armor. ur crazy)) :shock: :shock: :shock:
btw what type of motor do u have?
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:49 am

SarDoX wrote:
MrDude_1 wrote:dude, if you gear a 6374 to go 30mph, it WILL just burn up the motor.

Trust me, I know. I just rode my goped to work at 37mph the whole way here... and my motor is 4 times your size plus I have a cooling fan built into it.
I really need to update my thread here about it. was not an easy build.

ohh thanks for the info
right now at 20mph motor is warm not hot.. but at 30 it can be hot, even with my 130lbs
do u think 25mph is going to be good? its 56/14 gearing and gear ratio is 4:1

also I saw someone added a fan to the motor from the side

p.s. I dont think it safe to go 37mph even with helmet and other body armor. ur crazy)) :shock: :shock: :shock:
btw what type of motor do u have?


If there are zero hills, you could run it at 25, but you might have to stop and let the motor cool if you dont have a fan on it... but only because you're 130.
Remember, if you regear it to go faster, it will accelerate slower... so the motor will get full power for longer because its trying to get you up to speed... trying to hit too high of a peak speed usually ends up making the scooter suck everywhere else.

I run the 10" pneumatic tires, not the sport tires you have... with them, I like it around 25mph to mess around on. you can turn and carve and its fun... 30mph isnt bad, you can still turn back and forth in the lane, but you have to pay attention... 35mph you're just going straight down the road... Its sensitive, but its not too hard to handle. but each small increase in speed makes it less stable. as you reach 40mph it gets twitchier and twitchier.... with my leyn controller I have hit 47mph but that was so twitchy that I only did it once.

Yes I have motorcycle gear, I wear at the least a helmet and gloves.. but when Im going fast I wear full gear including either motorcycle kneepads under my jeans, or Draggin Jeans. Roadrash is easy to prevent and well worth it. At the very least, a full face helmet (because you WILL go face first) and gloves (because the first thing you put out when crashing, are your hands) are needed at slower speeds... I am a stickler for knee armor though after a few incidents on motorcycles.

My motor is an 80-100... You can see my full build thread here: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=67812
but heres a pic:
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby torqueboards » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:56 am

How's that setup with an 80mm climbing hills?
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:09 am

torqueboards wrote:How's that setup with an 80mm climbing hills?

There are no steep hills around here, but a few uphill grades and bridges.
It doesnt slow down. I have it geared so that at WOT the motor hits max RPM at about 37mph. The controller keeps it from going faster, and I stay going 37mph uphill and down. Good for commonly traveled "30mph" streets since cars go about 37-40 anyway.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:44 am

MrDude_1 wrote:
torqueboards wrote:How's that setup with an 80mm climbing hills?

There are no steep hills around here, but a few uphill grades and bridges.
It doesnt slow down. I have it geared so that at WOT the motor hits max RPM at about 37mph. The controller keeps it from going faster, and I stay going 37mph uphill and down. Good for commonly traveled "30mph" streets since cars go about 37-40 anyway.


When I was going short downhill with a full throttle (may be 25mph) I did feel how unstable the scooter is. Every mini nano bump on a road makes me feel unsafe)) Especially when cars and trucks are around or right behind and you know that they cant stop as fast you fall))
I think its all about small wheels and no suspension system here. Last one should add much more stability and comfort for a rider and extra 5-10 lbs in weight

have u ever had a chance to ride any stand up scooter with suspension?
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:02 pm

SarDoX wrote:I think its all about small wheels and no suspension system here. Last one should add much more stability and comfort for a rider and extra 5-10 lbs in weight

have u ever had a chance to ride any stand up scooter with suspension?


Yes, they make the Hoverboard with 10" and Sport wheels.
The suspension doesnt do much for me, besides make the "edge" of bumps feel softer... and your feet dont vibrate as much.
The twitchiness is very dependent upon wheel size. The small tired scooters are much twitchier than the larger tire ones.
steering head angle, caster and trail make a diff in how it feels as speed increases... these scooters are setup to maneuver around 15mph max... so its very short and direct, and that makes it twitchy at speed.
A different steering geometry, 10" or larger tires, and you would have something as stable as a moped... add in suspension for comfort or if you want to go offroad.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby elvill » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:32 pm

This thread is a great example of costs/benefits of going rc outrunner in a stand up scooter. I know many have done it but IMO outrunner is overkill in a standup and waste of watts/power and will not be a reliable setup longterm.

If you want 24mph and 14miles range you can do it super cheap under $100 minus batteries

Super cheap brushed 24v500w overvolted to 36v20ah and 11/55 gets there.

I've tried dozen or so different motors on pocket mods and 300 small cheap brushed is the best for stand up. ESR is good candidate for outrunner but wont be as carefree, reliable, or efficient (amp usage) cheap brushed.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:52 pm

elvill wrote:This thread is a great example of costs/benefits of going rc outrunner in a stand up scooter. I know many have done it but IMO outrunner is overkill in a standup and waste of watts/power and will not be a reliable setup longterm.
If you want 24mph and 14miles range you can do it super cheap under $100 minus batteries
Super cheap brushed 24v500w overvolted to 36v20ah and 11/55 gets there.
I've tried dozen or so different motors on pocket mods and 300 small cheap brushed is the best for stand up. ESR is good candidate for outrunner but wont be as carefree, reliable, or efficient (amp usage) cheap brushed.


You take the MASSIVE stock 24v 750w brushed ESR motor and pump 33v through it, and you'll smoke the brushes.
You take any other motor, and you'll be doing just as much work to make it fit.

what exactly is your point?

(please keep in mind, your response is to someone that commutes 3.1 miles each way to and from work with a brushless RC outrunner powered standup scooter...)
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:37 pm

To turn goped on and off I did an arming switch without going into expensive 100A relays (over 100$)
2 connectors, 2 inches of wire, 1 hour of time and a couple bottles of the best Oregon beer)
switch.jpg
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:01 pm

SarDoX wrote:To turn goped on and off I did an arming switch without going into expensive 100A relays (over 100$)
2 connectors, 2 inches of wire, 1 hour of time and a couple bottles of the best Oregon beer)
switch.jpg


looks good.
does it double as a charging port?
edit:
nevermind, I thought I saw 3 plugs.. a battery+ battery- and controller..
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:28 pm

honestly - I have no clue how to make it charge without opening the board and disconnecting the circuit
2*4s lipos and in series, to charge them I need to plug them to parallel charging board, disconnect stabilizing wires from low voltage meter and also plug them in parallel charging board..
there will be so many extra wires and connectors...
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:36 pm

if your lipos are fairly stable, you can run an 8s bulk charger and balance as needed... or run the balance leads out together with a harness and you could use a 8s balance charger.
I am running 16s, so I have a high 8s and a low 8s. I normally bulk charge them, but I can check them 8 at a time with a cell log. I have a center tap, so I can balance charge 8, then the next 8.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:11 pm

MrDude_1 wrote:if your lipos are fairly stable, you can run an 8s bulk charger and balance as needed... or run the balance leads out together with a harness and you could use a 8s balance charger.
I am running 16s, so I have a high 8s and a low 8s. I normally bulk charge them, but I can check them 8 at a time with a cell log. I have a center tap, so I can balance charge 8, then the next 8.


MrDude_1, can u check out this scheme? Im not good at electrical at all, but..
Its the scheme where I can isntall parallel board into my goped and just add an extra connector on its body to jump charger without opening the cover
Is this scheme correct?
charging.jpg
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:42 am

Ok, so today I did a first long run
Charged lipo to 4.2/cell and did a 7.63 miles on full throttle. And still 3.9 left in cells so I believe I can make up to 12 miles before voltage reaches 3.7
Motor is warm, esc is warm, nothing is overheating. Happyyyy :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:47 pm

SarDoX wrote:
MrDude_1 wrote:if your lipos are fairly stable, you can run an 8s bulk charger and balance as needed... or run the balance leads out together with a harness and you could use a 8s balance charger.
I am running 16s, so I have a high 8s and a low 8s. I normally bulk charge them, but I can check them 8 at a time with a cell log. I have a center tap, so I can balance charge 8, then the next 8.


MrDude_1, can u check out this scheme? Im not good at electrical at all, but..
Its the scheme where I can isntall parallel board into my goped and just add an extra connector on its body to jump charger without opening the cover
Is this scheme correct?
charging.jpg


I would not do it that way, as it looks like a good way to make a nice fire. lol.
You can not have them parallel connected while they're in series or vice versa . Ever.
Its also not really safe to depend on having switches set a specific way... you WILL screw it up eventually.

I would build a small harness to connect the two balance connectors into one 8s connector.
I would then use a 8s charger.
You never have to put them in parallel that way.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby SarDoX » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:10 am

thanks..
Problem is that I have a nice 6s charger so I will have to stick to 4s lipo

btw - I wanted to go with 3*4S = 12S total but not sure if this motor will handle this voltage. Motor max voltage is 44V, 12s lipo just charged are 12*4.2= 50.4V :cry:
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby MrDude_1 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:35 am

You may be able to do it... if your ESC supports it you can test.
The problem is once the motor is saturated, instead of making more power, it starts making heat...it can quickly make alot of heat.
As long as you keep the motor below a specific RPM, its not an issue, go over that, and it builds heat. Volts raise the RPM.

get one of the cheap IR laser thermometers, and measure how warm it gets free running for a few minutes. if it doesnt get too hot, go for it. if it quickly raises temp, its too fast.

Im not supposed to put more than 44v through my 80-100, but I run it at a little over 66v. I just limit RPM in my controller. By running higher volts, It pulls lower amps and everything stays cool and happy.
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Re: Goped ESR upgrade - TURNIGY 6374 build

Postby filbo » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:45 am

Hello!

I've made a electric conversion of a goped cruiser with the same motor, a turnigy K-force 120A HV esc, 12S 16Ah (4 X 6S 8Ah 10C) and it works not so bad.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=84113.
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