esk8 2015 - e-MTB 2015/16 - e-pintail 2016

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Rikobonito   100 W

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esk8 2015 - e-MTB 2015/16 - e-pintail 2016

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 02 2015 4:13pm

Hello everyone,

[EDIT: Page 1 & 2 e-skate/longboard part ; Page 2 e-mtb Dart Vapor]
Image

I'm Riako, 28 yr old, Architect/Designer in Paris,
it makes 12 years I ride longboard, but now it is time spent to the dark side and take the POWER !
For a little over 2 years I travel forum topic and other DIY project on the subject, I collected tons of info and I'm finally turned to the diy
ALIEN ALIEN & DRIVE SYSTEM POWER SYSTEM :mrgreen:
I come finally to make you a small presentation of my inventory about mounting my WONDERFUL ELECTRIC LONGBOARD :arrow: The ALIENBOARD
so I have in my possession:

- 1 kit for Caliber I 50 ° truck:http://www.aliendrivesystems.com/store/ ... heels.html
Image
- 2 x 8000mAh 35C 5S Lipo battery http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/5s-bat ... o-battery/
Image
- 1 motor kit: http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/e-boar ... d-diy-kit/
Image Image Image
- 1 powerswitch antispark http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/electr ... 20amp-max/
- 1 deckMadrid 40"
Image
my intentions :arrow:
ImageImage Image

analyze, learn, gather, understand, assemble ... it took me over a year and a half ... and it still does not work well.

Image Image Image Image

here is a preview/test
[youtube]https://youtu.be/qwLi1Uq4cR8[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/qwLi1Uq4cR8

But, last week, so after one year and a half waiting, it was holydays, and all my friends took their skate, so I take mine !!
we did a 15km ride along the coast of the Atlantic Ocean north, all is good, allmost perfect,.. except that if I exceed 30kmh ...
when I go top speed around 30km/h it breaks (rupture/cessation/stop) !
I saw the problem with Alien (maybe means some connection are loose) so I insulate all wires correctly but there is steal an issue.

there is a vacuum test of my problem take this evening :
[youtube]https://youtu.be/j90x0IuTA6o[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/j90x0IuTA6o
- Parametres ESC :
Throttle Curve = Linear
Acceleration soft
Motor timing = 20 degrees
Timing monitor off
Brake 30%
Reverse off
Start power 25%

What do you thinks about it ? I already change the ESC too !.. try with differents ESC configurations (timing motor...start power...)

Thanks all for reading !
and to google translator for writinig this :wink:
Last edited by Rikobonito on Sep 03 2016 6:48am, edited 4 times in total.
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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sl33py   10 kW

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 02 2015 8:00pm

Bienvenue Rikobonito!

Good looking board and it looks like a quality build. I'm afraid that your likely issue is the ESC itself.

A couple troubleshooting steps i'd recommend - check to see if the ESC has the same issue with only one pack (half the voltage, only one 5s battery) -still an issue?

Does the motor brake, or does the Rx (receiver for your wireless transmitter (GT2B or Wiiceiver?)) lose connection/power? Is there a power light on the Rx to see if it's losing power? Some of the Flier/APS ESC's are known to have flakey/bad BEC's. You could try a dedicated BEC to provide power to the Rx and see if that fixes it as well.

Last - i would swap in a different ESC if you can find one (again possibly at 5s since most limit to 6s max).

Welcome to ES, great build, and good luck!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 02 2015 8:06pm

watched the videos again, and found one before you put them in the enclosure. A couple more ideas.

You have a GT2B i see. And an OPTO ESC, so already have a BEC.

In that case, i would eliminate the anti-spark switch and see if it's causing issues when you are drawing higher load/amps. I would still check to see if running on only one battery (1/2 the voltage, 5s) let's it run full speed or still has this issue?

If you can keep an eye on the GT2B Rx/receiver - do you notice the light flicker or go out when it happens? That would make me think the BEC itself might be bad.

Hope this helps and good luck!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 02 2015 8:30pm

Really great ! Big thank you for your return sl33py !!
yes I got a GT2B yes the Alien ESC already got an antispark, I will try whithout the anti-spark switch but I don't really know how to use the antispark on the esc that I dont use ... :oops:
So tomorrow I will check if the ESC (Note that the ESC has been changed by a new one before summer) has the same issue with only one pack and the GT2B Rx/receiver to notice the light and charge my remote control fully
For your suggestion " i would swap in a different ESC if you can find one (again possibly at 5s since most limit to 6s max)" I could try with a HK 150A High performance Brushless Car ESC too !
Image
;) many thaks again to you,
Returns tomorrow then !

Best regards
Last edited by Rikobonito on Sep 03 2015 8:02am, edited 1 time in total.
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Vulthor » Sep 03 2015 12:14am

Hey Riko, wish you can solved this freaking problem on your board, with some help of Endless sphere members i ain't got any doubt you will.

finger cross Bro :wink:
"I pushed a button"

Rikobonito   100 W

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 03 2015 8:16am

Hi ES !
first the test with just 5S (8000mah) ... full speed is impossible :( worse than 10S, the engine just to launch and saturates even faster than before.
I see the light of the GT2B Rx/receiver seems to be good (full red).
[youtube]https://youtu.be/oMJ7eL1Y6n0[/youtube] https://youtu.be/oMJ7eL1Y6n0
now before welding to install the connectors on new test items
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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Rikobonito   100 W

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 03 2015 11:36am

Other test where you can see well the light of the GT2B Rx/receiver red,
5S fully charged and remote control too
Timing change to 25°
... but steel don't work ... :cry:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/w0V9jDVclP4[/youtube] https://youtu.be/w0V9jDVclP4
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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sl33py   10 kW

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 03 2015 1:59pm

Good vids Riko. Definitely looks like it's not voltage dependent, and the UBEC/BEC is keeping voltage/power supplied to the Rx.

Looking more and more like the ESC.

Two ideas to test:
1 - remove the anti-spark switch and directly power the ESC.
2 - Try all timings.

Timings - i'm not super familiar with what bad timings will look like, so unsure if this is a normal symptom of incorrect/bad timing settings. I would try each timing to see if any help. I found another of your troubleshooting videos and saw you go through 20*, 25*, and 30*. I saw the motor "cogging" or stuttering especially on start which seems not very good with no load. The cogging i've experienced was only with me on it, and went away after a small kick to start rolling. On the bench when testing i don't remember it cogging at all.

Do you have that other ESC already and just need to put on connectors to utilize it?

Vulthor and OKP - any way you guys are in the area and can meetup to take a look or even swap parts around to test? I'd love to see another ESC tested w/ this motor, and a known working motor tested with this ESC to see if it's at all possible the motor is the problem (seems unlikely). I'd still bet a shiny nickel (5 cents - a gentleman's bet basically) that it's the ESC.

If you were closer i'd send you my XERUN or Mamba XL2 to test with.

GL!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Vulthor » Sep 03 2015 3:00pm

Yeah I think okp will take a look at this if he got time, we are also thinking of the Barrel of the motor (not sure i'm clear).

However I got more time due to my night time job, so when my board is ready trying to meet Riako and spend some time on swapping parts board to board to check this.
"I pushed a button"

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 03 2015 7:52pm

sl33py wrote: Looking more and more like the ESC.
Two ideas to test:
1 - remove the anti-spark switch and directly power the ESC.
2 - Try all timings.
Thx ! I will test whithout it !... but doesn't damage the ESC ? Cause the antispark of the ESC is not use/wire/connected
sl33py wrote: Timings - i'm not super familiar with what bad timings will look like, so unsure if this is a normal symptom of incorrect/bad timing settings. I would try each timing to see if any help. I found another of your troubleshooting videos and saw you go through 20*, 25*, and 30*. I saw the motor "cogging" or stuttering especially on start which seems not very good with no load. The cogging i've experienced was only with me on it, and went away after a small kick to start rolling. On the bench when testing i don't remember it cogging at all.
Do you have that other ESC already and just need to put on connectors to utilize it?
Yes, the cogging problem appened with the other/older Alien ESC (2014 model) ! Its why Alien send me the new one this summer... yes it is already the new one on the setup :| It always stuttering a little at start. :cry: but not so mutch than before !
I will test with the 3rd, the Hobbyking 150A High performance Brushless Car ESC tomorrow I think
sl33py wrote: Vulthor and OKP - any way you guys are in the area and can meetup to take a look or even swap parts around to test? I'd love to see another ESC tested w/ this motor, and a known working motor tested with this ESC to see if it's at all possible the motor is the problem (seems unlikely). I'd still bet a shiny nickel (5 cents - a gentleman's bet basically) that it's the ESC.
If you were closer i'd send you my XERUN or Mamba XL2 to test with.
GL!
Many thanks for your help again, yes I would like to be more closer than you ! USA :P
yes would really again a twist of fate, more than bad luck, if the motor doesn't work too. that would mean all of my first order Alien is all completly dysfunctional !!! :evil: ... hope no !
I hope I will to meet okp, Vulthor or any other e-skaters too try to fiw the problem ! And hope you gonna loose your bet cause it will means it needed a 3rd Alien ESC to finaly works !.. agains a bad luck.
anyway, many thanks again to you sl33py !!! New test to comes so
Vulthor wrote: Yeah I think okp will take a look at this if he got time, we are also thinking of the Barrel of the motor (not sure i'm clear).
However I got more time due to my night time job, so when my board is ready trying to meet Riako and spend some time on swapping parts board to board to check this.
Merci Vulthor (je passe au français entre nous (pour moi) se sera plus simple :roll: ),
Merci de ton aide ! je suis preneur :D dès que tu es ready/dispo fais moi signe, je suis déjà dans les starting bloc :wink:
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sl33py   10 kW

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 03 2015 9:19pm

Rikobonito wrote: Thx ! I will test whithout it !... but doesn't damage the ESC ? Cause the antispark of the ESC is not use/wire/connected
No, it will not damage your system without the anti-spark power plug/switch. Over time that spark will wear out the connector, and at higher voltages (like 12s) it can be a bit more of a "pop!" sound which is disconcerting. Always makes me jump. But the connector is fine doing this for a while - each time it sparks it wears away some of the metal before they touch, and your connector can wear out and not make a good connection after multiple sparks (quite a long time). So not great, and high wear on the connector, but it should not damage anything, especially for just a little while to test.

Happy to help and hope it's a quick fix! best of luck!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Vulthor » Sep 03 2015 11:16pm

I was just thinking, maybe the problem come from a bad soldering somewhere?

I watch many tutorial on youtube (because I don't solder since college) and if the tin doesn't fit properly into the wires it can make issues in conductivity, that could explain the cogging at low and high voltage.

What do you think of this theory sl33py?
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by okp » Sep 04 2015 2:02am

Your mission, should you accept it, will be to save riko.

operation french code name : SAVE RIKO

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SAVE RIKO

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 04 2015 8:11am

sl33py wrote: No, it will not damage your system without the anti-spark power plug/switch.
ok thanks sl33py ! Just to be sure I was speeking about this wire "antispark" Image
sl33py wrote: Over time that spark will wear out the connector, and at higher voltages (like 12s) it can be a bit more of a "pop!" sound which is disconcerting. Always makes me jump. But the connector is fine doing this for a while - each time it sparks it wears away some of the metal before they touch, and your connector can wear out and not make a good connection after multiple sparks (quite a long time). So not great, and high wear on the connector, but it should not damage anything, especially for just a little while to test.
Happy to help and hope it's a quick fix! best of luck!
Ok, for the test no problem ;) Thanks you again !!
Vulthor wrote: I was just thinking, maybe the problem come from a bad soldering somewhere?
I watch many tutorial on youtube (because I don't solder since college) and if the tin doesn't fit properly into the wires it can make issues in conductivity, that could explain the cogging at low and high voltage.
What do you think of this theory sl33py?
yes, it might not be surprising :oops: I will watch somes other tuto so ! But no more 10AWG ... Command HK to comes soon ! thank you for helping me look for all potential problems as possible Vullthor ! Hurry to meet you !
okp wrote: Your mission, should you accept it, will be to save riko.
operation french code name : SAVE RIKO
:mrgreen: Like it ! it is now a global aid :lol: !!! many thanks for all !!!
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 04 2015 5:02pm

here is a test with an other motor, in 5S, without SwitchPowerAntispark = Battery>ESC>New motor (6374 192kv)
its bizare,.. I have some test of ESC parameter to do :!: :idea:
Here is with Start power 20% and timing at 20°
[youtube]https://youtu.be/CxghSMGJ4hs[/youtube] https://youtu.be/CxghSMGJ4hs
but it is worrying that the engine does not start!?! :|
The 5S is the problem !? weird
Here is the 10S test with PowerSwithAntispark
[youtube]https://youtu.be/gBdjYrNf0Qg[/youtube] https://youtu.be/gBdjYrNf0Qg
I can not stay fully depress the trigger, at the end you could slightly hear a little little beggining of break :?
Last edited by Rikobonito on Sep 04 2015 5:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 04 2015 5:08pm

HA! Mission Save Riko - I like it!!

The wire you point to for "anti-spark" isn't what i thought. That looks more like a small gauge wire for a remote on/off switch? The direct connect i was talking about is the main power plug from your ESC to the battery/batteries.

What i was hoping to test was removing the 19mm push button you use for turning the board on/off. It's pretty looking, that is for certain, but it's also in the path from your battery to the ESC, so *possibly* it could be an issue. Removing it to test and directly connecting power from the batteries to the ESC without that push button (you connect it to power on, disconnect it to power off - simple), will eliminate it as a possible contributor to the issue. If that wire you point to is a small on/off switch, then ignore it for now.

Does that make sense, or i can do a quick drawing if needed.

Bon Chance mon ami!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 04 2015 5:32pm

sl33py wrote:What i was hoping to test was removing the 19mm push button you use for turning the board on/off. It's pretty looking, that is for certain, but it's also in the path from your battery to the ESC, so *possibly* it could be an issue. Removing it to test and directly connecting power from the batteries to the ESC without that push button (you connect it to power on, disconnect it to power off - simple), will eliminate it as a possible contributor to the issue. If that wire you point to is a small on/off switch, then ignore it for now.
MANY THANKS sl33py like again and again ;)
I see how you try to help me indeed with the barrier of language, thank you for that ! But I think I get it :roll:
I understand you, don't worry the first test is made without the PowerSwitch ;) Juste the battery directly to the ESC (with a "poc" when I put it like you told me) and the moteur !
thats all, and you can see it doesn't work at all !!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxghSMGJ4hs)

Then in 10S is better but I can stay full on the remote or the motor cut/break (a bit less than before but still there... :? )
:arrow: https://youtu.be/gBdjYrNf0Qg
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by okp » Sep 06 2015 3:04pm

on the field save mission :)

we tried Riako motor on my ESC, just by swapping the motor : works fine

I think the ESC firmware is not appropriate... or the ESC is not good.

check the video


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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 06 2015 4:16pm

YES ! A BIG THANKS TO YOU !!! :lol: :P :mrgreen:
It was a good day, good peoples, good ride 8) ... target problem !!!! What eles !? :twisted:
I was like a kid :!:
thanks again OKP
hurry to see your next build !
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Vulthor » Sep 06 2015 7:04pm

Finger cross for just a firmware problem.

Very nice day with french e-riders, and maybe the end of the line for Riko's problems :wink:
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 06 2015 8:27pm

That's fantastic! Fingers crossed it's just a firmware as well. If not, i'd plan on a new VESC if you can swing it later? Even in APS replaces your ESC again... I'm not loving the Flier/APS ESC's.

Love that the community met up to help him out! Thanks OKP and Vulthor!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Vulthor » Sep 06 2015 9:39pm

Well it was 99% okp, i'm 1% supporter :mrgreen:
"I pushed a button"

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 07 2015 5:12am

Vulthor wrote:Finger cross for just a firmware problem.
Very nice day with french e-riders, and maybe the end of the line for Riko's problems :wink:
Normally I think I should have the answer today :D :P :lol: I hope !
sl33py wrote:That's fantastic! Fingers crossed it's just a firmware as well. If not, i'd plan on a new VESC if you can swing it later? Even in APS replaces your ESC again... I'm not loving the Flier/APS ESC's.
Love that the community met up to help him out! Thanks OKP and Vulthor!
Yes a BIG thanks to them !!! It was super cool to be there !
I'm happy you speak about it cause, "if I have to change AGAIN my ESC" I'm interested by the new V-ESC, I following okp setup en review to learn about it.
The aim would I ride my motor sensor, so I didnt actualy know the number of pole accepted,.. And if it's compatible with my motor.
But that's next :roll:
Many thanks to follow the MISSION RIKO :wink: hahahaah :!:
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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by sl33py » Sep 08 2015 6:26pm

Hey Riko! Any luck loading some other firmwares from APS? Did you download some alternative firmwares to test?

If you want to run your motor sensored i'd look at the e0 Design hall sensor "kit". Looks pretty straight forward to me and i might eventually try one on a single motor board (GF would like sensor i think).

Fingers crossed you are too busy riding your board to update us!

Bon Chance!

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Re: Alienboard-single motor 3.2kw-10S8Ah

Post by Rikobonito » Sep 08 2015 9:56pm

sl33py wrote:Hey Riko! Any luck loading some other firmwares from APS? Did you download some alternative firmwares to test?
Fingers crossed you are too busy riding your board to update us!
Bon Chance!
Hi sl33py, many thanks to follow ! I just find the good firmware (houres hold !)!
AND IT WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRKS !!! :lol: :mrgreen:
HAHAHAHA yeah you right, can't wait to test it so I finish the test around 1am (frensh) !
SO HAPPY ! All thanks to OKP again :wink: !!! it saved me this long, very long and laborious project :roll:
sl33py wrote:If you want to run your motor sensored i'd look at the e0 Design hall sensor "kit". Looks pretty straight forward to me and i might eventually try one on a single motor board (GF would like sensor i think).
It's perfect cause this is exactly what I have! Image
hahaha yes understand, me too also ! It's more like an Evolve after that ? Cause I like the smooth of it !
I hope I willfind it easy too :oops:

I made some new BMS shape too :arrow: Image
Image Image Image
Image Image Image
:) pretty cool

and I try to find what I could do as a handle
Image

it always wants more !next projet for my GF to comes Image

Merci for taking news sl33py, I will try to follow your builds :wink:
Image
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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