DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Sep 25 2015 11:13pm

Cool. Never seen that remote. How big is the receiver ?

Looking forward to seeing ur mount.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by jamesonotc » Sep 25 2015 11:36pm

Finally you have posted a thread around here and got to building.

I've subscribed and will be checking back for updates :D

Sweet choice of deck

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by torqueboards » Sep 25 2015 11:53pm

From the looks of that remote.. It looks to be good to go.

I bought one also to test it out but haven't received it yet. I purchased maybe a week or two ago. You can see the receiver on the Amazon website in the reviews (someone pointed it out.)

Nice Clone :) No, hard feelings at all. Looks great so far! :mrgreen:
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by torqueboards » Sep 26 2015 12:23am

That EW Muirderer is the deck which I like also.. I tried to design this one similar to it. Except it's 29" in length. Now debating on 29" to 31"... https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1101068

I'm sure, you'll like the deck though.
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by onloop » Sep 26 2015 3:15am

torqueboards wrote:
Nice Clone :) No, hard feelings at all
I personally don't think people should be copying your work...

It sets a bad precedent, it also is the opposite of creativity and innovation. This mount took you countless hours to conceptualise and design! it's yours and should only be produced by you until the day you make it open source using a creative commons license.

Of course anyone should freely use other people's work for inspiration, but never directly copy/clone it!

If you can't make a new better design don't make anything.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by whitepony » Sep 26 2015 4:30am

onloop wrote: I personally don't think people should be copying your work...

It sets a bad precedent, it also is the opposite of creativity and innovation. This mount took you countless hours to conceptualise and design! it's yours and should only be produced by you until the day you make it open source using a creative commons license.
agree on that. besides the "stealing" aspect, I also think that the few people that bother with offering "commercial" products for your own "DIY" board are really worth supporting. so far the money always produced new innovations and better packages for even higher accessibility to the electric skateboard world.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 26 2015 6:39am

Thats a pretty awesome mount. The anti-rotation set-screw and clamping end means a builder would not need to braze/weld a mount onto the truck axle.

Image

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by onloop » Sep 27 2015 4:24am

spinningmagnets wrote:Thats a pretty awesome mount. The anti-rotation set-screw and clamping end means a builder would not need to braze/weld a mount onto the truck axle.
YES! You are right, It is an awesome mount. PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST CONCEPTS SO FAR!

But no matter if it is good or bad. That design should not be directly replicated by others without strict written concent & official approval/license from the creator.

In this case (written) approval was given unoffically afterwards....

But still I think it sets a bad precedent for the ES forum. It is not ok to directly copy someone's work.

There are many innovators that openly discuss their designs and concepts on here because they want knowledge to spread, the forum is about sharing knowledge and growing the community. This is great and should not change

But i think there should also be respect for intellectual property.

Copying is not a form of flattery.

If you have the skillz to clone this why not have the vision to create a better version? Then you are truley being a useful member in the community because you are progressing design & technology.

if you cannot improve the design you should buy it from the creator as a sign of gratitude.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by chaka » Sep 27 2015 10:42am

torqueboards wrote:Nice Clone :) No, hard feelings at all. Looks great so far! :mrgreen:
This right here and the fact that it's the best mount on the market is why every board I build will have one or two of torqueboards motor mounts as a standard feature. This guy's character is about as good as it gets.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 27 2015 10:52am

I always like to credit the creators if any original design, does torqueboards have a website?

Edit: found the link in their post sig...

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by jamesonotc » Sep 27 2015 11:17am

SubCreative wrote: Motor Mount: $NA - CNC clone of DIYElectricskateboard (work in progress)
spinningmagnets wrote:I always like to credit the creators if any original design, does torqueboards have a website?

His website is DIYeletricskateboards.com. Great design i've purchased two myself there.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by okp » Sep 27 2015 11:43am

yes, you can't go wrong with Dexter. I confirm all that has been said.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by Vulthor » Sep 27 2015 2:14pm

okp wrote:yes, you can't go wrong with Dexter. I confirm all that has been said.
Same, Dexter is really nice guy wich give very good advices.

I've got to support SubCreative for the mount, he got the tool and ability, he will never buy any mount on any seller, so cloning and give credits to the creator is quite fair especially as a product for personnal uses.

Tons of us didn't have tools or time to make part by themself, and even less can make motors/ESC and so on...

Torqueboards and Onloop sells parts, so we buy and the price is here to give us reliable products, and give them money for the time,the tools, the innovation etc...But it's a DIY forum for makers of all brand, we are here to share, to learn, even to clone.... because basicaly that's what we do...

When okp cloning (or is mostly inspired) by Boosted, we congrats him, and it's fair, he did amazing job, the parts are different from Boosted (product's sells by Onloop and Torqueboards mostly by the way) but the design is not different enough to say by just a quick look that it's not a Boosted), so we should make same here.

We all have a parts of our board that is a clone of something basicaly, it's how it works...or you can go the way of Apple and try convince yourself what you invent the round corner....
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by onloop » Sep 27 2015 10:49pm

SubCreative wrote:you seem more worried about the mount than torqueboards himself...
It's got nothing to do with the mount or his design. It's directly related to YOU and your willingness to blatantly copy somthing without prior consent from the creator, all whilst contributing zero to this community...It's a bit of a shit move mate!

Let me tell you a story..... Before torqueboards or myself had mounts to offer to the community the only option was Alien AND THEY WHERE EXPENSIVE. Currently both our products are more affordable than those from Alien. Most people are grateful of that but instead you justify the perfectly resonable price (considering the small market size) as valid reason to rip him off...

Note: If you want free I offer open source designs which is ok to use for personal use. Go》here《

So anyway.... on my first build I had two alien mounts (the motor plate is 6mm) snap in half whilst riding at over 40km/h..
Image

. this became a major concern for me..and the general safety of the public..... clearly there where some issues that needed to be addressed. Also I could never get my motor mounts clamped down well as his clamp used a single bolt and clamped against two parallel faces which allowed twisting/rotation at the 90deg axis to the truck hanger.

So 18 months ago I began the long journey of prototyping my own unique design, it took many hours to get it perfect. I assure you My wife and new born son would have much preferred that i spent the time with them. But i believed i could make improvements and offer a superior design to the community (I assume you dont have these same aspirations towards innovation)

The issues that I wanted to address.
1. Two piece clamp with two bolts (alien has now updated his design to the method I introduced)
2. Make the motor mount thicker / stronger. The 6mm plate is not strong enough. My original MM design was cut from a 20mm aluminium block. It resulted in an 18mm thick across the weak point. Not one of my previous version mounts has snapped.
3. Improve the belt tension adjustability, it was not possible to adjust the alien mount whilst the wheel was installed. Once again my design ideas where replicated (not copied or cloned) in his new design
4. Introduce a Bash plate/ cross brace for additional rigidity.

So instead of copying his design I made an effort to improve it & offer somthing g new. Now he has upgraded his design to incorporate many of these features.

Soon after alien released his new MM design, torqueboards released his bolt on version. The torqueboards mount is actually very similar to the alien mount (but not a copy, it's a variation with new ideas). Specifically the motor mount plate and adjusting method is similar with both mounts, But torqueboards made improvement with the clamp design and the angle adjustment so that now people can have rear facing motors or in fact any angle they want. Which is a great innovation.

If you want to make a contribution to the community you might consider making some improvements and make a better product so that the community (&you) benefits.

Personally I think there are some weak points on the torqueboard mount, specifically the motor plate, I would not copy that design directly.

Below I have indicated where I think you could make some changes to thickness. I would remove the bash plate screw holes and maybe increase thickness as 6mm eventually will snap.

The point of my story is be inspired by others, then innovate. Copying is lazy, wrong and does not progress the industry.

This motor mount plate is 6mm,

Image

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by torqueboards » Sep 27 2015 11:07pm

I haven't had the need to use anything thicker than 6mm and if it was thicker than 6mm it would run into being too big for typical motors since the motor shaft is normally short.

I'll replace any motor mount if there are any issues.

Also, it's made in 7071 Aluminum.

I wanted to change the design so bad..and not take the same idea as Alien for the adjustable mount but it only made sense. I think I even tested out tons of iterations to make it different but in the end there's only so many ways to make a chair.. I wanted to change the middle part of the motor mount bracket but it only adds to the stability of the mount.

I do agree.. the motor mount does have many holes.. but I also wanted it to be flexible. The bash plate is always optional.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: funny thread.... :shock: :shock:
Last edited by torqueboards on Sep 27 2015 11:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by torqueboards » Sep 27 2015 11:20pm

SubCreative wrote:To get back on topic, my trucks show up tomorrow! Hopefully my deck and wheels get here just as quick! from what torque said about his order on the generic remote it looks it might take a few weeks to get here but I probably wont have my battery built or ready by then anyways.
Looks like that controller isn't for sale anymore.. Or maybe it will come back again like it did last time.
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by whitepony » Sep 27 2015 11:54pm

its unfair how you try to make onloop look - the commercial/overpriced/afraid of "true DIY" card is cheap to play and does not live up to what people like onloop and torqueboards have done, do and will do for this community. I didnt really want to get involved in this discussion, but I'm 100% behind this:
It's got nothing to do with the mount or his design. It's directly related to YOU and your willingness to blatantly copy somthing without prior consent from the creator ... It's a bit of a shit move mate!

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by okp » Sep 28 2015 12:43am

Vulthor wrote: When okp cloning (or is mostly inspired) by Boosted, we congrats him, and it's fair, he did amazing job, the parts are different from Boosted (product's sells by Onloop and Torqueboards mostly by the way) but the design is not different enough to say by just a quick look that it's not a Boosted), so we should make same here.
but it is way different, it is inspired but not cloning at all which is totally different here; if only I would be able to replicate a boosted in my small apartment with a dremel and epoxy fiber, I would have probably another worthy job :)

otherwise, I'm not into this battle so let's go ride :)

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by onloop » Sep 28 2015 1:12am

OP...

DIY MEANS - DO IT YOURSELF

Are you doing it all yourself?

Just because there are many DIY enthusiasts on ES does not mean and will never mean that you should blatantly copy someone's else design without permission.

Also say what you want about me i personally invite public critique about my business practise and/or my product and design methodology. Or email me directly. Jason@enertionboards.com

I think it is worth noting that i was a member on ES way before i had a business selling eboard product, feel free to go check the records....

Let it be perfectly clear.....I am here primarily for the benefit of the eboard movement. Yes I made a business out of selling products to the diy croud and yes I make profit from doing it... but at the end of the day only about 10-15% of my customers come from here. So I'm not here because of potential business. I am here to help progress the movement.

Also...its always funny to hear people complain that business make profit... but that's another topic.

If it was not for this awesone forum I would not know any of you at all! and over the last 12 months I have personally chatted with dexter and got to know him reasonably well and consider him a friend.. you all might think dexter and I are just here to suck coins out of your pockets... but it's not the case, in fact neither of us are wealthy or rich we are just trying to make things better.. I have literally reinvested every single cent of sales revenue back into developing new and better ebaord products. I'm not rich and I don't have lots of cash!

I do know that dexter works his arse off to make his products and run his website, it probably took 3 months minimum for him to finalise this MM design not to mention several hundred dollars spent for prototyping... this shit ain't easy BRo!

So please pay some respect to Dexter who has over 3k of posts on here.

As you only have got about 17 post so far I think it's fair to say you haven't contributed much. So please tone it down.

We are all here to learn! join the tribe and be respectful.

Peace.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by Vulthor » Sep 28 2015 1:29am

okp wrote:otherwise, I'm not into this battle so let's go ride :)
Yeah, well in fact not already... very soon, but yeah :mrgreen:

ps: apologize for your build as an exemple in my post, no offense at all on your build.
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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by onloop » Sep 28 2015 1:35am

okp wrote:
Vulthor wrote: When okp cloning (or is mostly inspired) by Boosted, we congrats him, and it's fair, he did amazing job, the parts are different from Boosted (product's sells by Onloop and Torqueboards mostly by the way) but the design is not different enough to say by just a quick look that it's not a Boosted), so we should make same here.
but it is way different, it is inspired but not cloning at all which is totally different here; if only I would be able to replicate a boosted in my small apartment with a dremel and epoxy fiber, I would have probably another worthy job :)

otherwise, I'm not into this battle so let's go ride :)
What okp is doing is very different!

Firstly an electric skateboard is made from many seperate individual parts.

To the untrained eye some people would say all electric skateboards are the same. But of course they are not!

Okp made a board that 'sort of looks like' a boosted board. But really it is not identical in anyway, except the cases look similar.. The deck and wheels & trucks are not made by Boosted boards... overall what he made is an improvement

What we are discussing here is someone who literally wants to copy/clone a single part that a fellow & well respected ES member designed, instead of buying it.. and the reason is because he thinks it is too expensive...

The funny thing is that when the OP calculates time spent copying the design PLUS machine time in hours he probably would of earned more at his day job. He could of paid for the product and supported the innovators of the community.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by onloop » Sep 28 2015 1:50am

SubCreative wrote:I honestly don't have time for your antics, here you are again trying to make this about someone else. Stick to doing you "bro". While your at it go find my VESC documentation I submitted to Vedders github last week and say I'm not here to contribute or have not contributed you lame.
If you have helped to develop the VESC that is really good news! I honestly respect you for that!

Obviously your a fairly smart dude. If You where able to copy the mount and render your own model... congrats.

So now take it to the next step and innovate...

Leave the copy cat stuff to the chinese.

Peace.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by lox897 » Sep 28 2015 9:42am

Ok. Both of you PLEASE stop arguing. If you are gonna use torque's design then maybe give him a small donation to at least say thank you for spending HIS time to design it. That's all I am going to say.

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by sl33py » Sep 28 2015 1:08pm

SubCreative,

You copied a respected member's product and blatantly posted it here before any sort of approval was given. That's just because Dexter decided to be unbelievably cool about it. If you'd tweaked/improved it to be your own even slightly it would be less of an issue, but a blatant copy is in poor taste. You are not being respectful of either Torque or Onloop. They have innovated and helped the community with products that most of us cannot make ourselves. Filling a niche that previously was just from the UK and $$$. I like competition at that level as the offerings have improved every iteration as a result. I've had all 3 (ADS, Enertion, DIYes) and they all work great with minor differences.

What you don't mention, or aren't aware of, is the large amounts of R+D and costs associated with bringing a product to market. Or the costs associated with running a business, and supporting and backing up your products - often to some ham-fisted "DIY"er who has a hacksaw and duct tape who thinks he can build an e-board... (I'm partly referring to myself - gotta start somewhere!)

You are a 'wet behind the ears' new member bashing respected members by your actions and comments. If you have had any issue with a product from onloop or seen the extra mile he has gone to support people here you might treat him with a bit more respect.

Besides this post, this is the only comment i'll give you to help you. You are obviously capable enough and can research for yourself.

Best of luck!

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Re: DIY Earthwing Muirderer Build (90mm, 190KV, Dual VESC)

Post by LEVer » Sep 28 2015 5:15pm

I don't get it, its a DIY forum. He wants to do it himself, so what's the problem? Especially after torque said it's ok, who are we to interfere. Who knows, maybe he can make that mount much better and benefit us. He certainly wont find out if we hold him from doing it.

I also find it ironic that onloop is not ok with someone else doing something based on someone's work, but he created another e-board forum.

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