Hub motors or Normal Motors

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nickkapoor   10 mW

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Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by nickkapoor » Dec 09 2015 8:27pm

Hi Guys, so am having trouble deciding weather I should use Lever's hub motors or a dual motor configuration using these http://diyelectricskateboard.com/produc ... 0kv-2650w/. I was initially planning on using the hubs but I realized i live in a really hilly area and was not sure they were going to be able to handle the hills. I ordered a flux from Jeremiah which i am extremely exited for, the config is 12s6p. Also if I go with the dual motors what truck mounting systems to you guys recommend and what gearing as well/
Thanks,
Nick

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Nobuo   10 kW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by Nobuo » Feb 12 2016 4:40am

At that size window there are not so many choices on the hub side. Hub's simplify the drive propulsion and could make a very good efficiency but with higher cost and less options to use the wheels you like. The dual motor configuration should have a greater mass and volume, so the heat dissipation should be higher and let you take more juice
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bandaro   10 kW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by bandaro » Feb 12 2016 6:01am

I would object there regarding size, I believe levers hubs are 6374 motors, so are bigger than the ones diy sells. However, I believe the hubs are stock windings so are geared for very high speeds, especially at 12s.

I would recommend a geared setup for hills, as a hub spins far slower and is therefore not able to wind up and tackle a hill well. Sure the 6374 motors have quite a punch and may just be able to brute force their way up a hill though. But if I'm right in assuming the windings of the hubs then they are very unsuitable for hills at 12s. Lever, any inputs?

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LEVer   10 kW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by LEVer » Feb 12 2016 11:55am

The hub motor is rated max amps of 70A each and can take in even higher amps for a few second. Two of them can take 140A. At 12s (44.4v), you are looking at 6216 Watts or 8.3 hp. The question I ask is, is it the hub motor, or is it the VESC or the 18650 batteries that cannot provide the continuous 70 amps max. I personally haven't tried the VESC and 18650 packs,yet.

I'm always amazed that none of my riders that use dual hubs with only the 6s 120A/150A car ESCs complain about the hills. I even have one that uses 2 of torqueboard's 12s ESC and he says he powers through the steepest hill he can find in his really hilly place, although he does not know what percentages or grades they are.

Also, I know that some of you guys think my hub motors are really not hub motors because they stick out and are not fully enclosed in the wheel. There are reasons for that, one of them is that I want the motors to be able to get cooled by the outside air. I could have made a wheel mold that can fully enclose the motors, but how wise is it to cover the whole motor can with plastic? Been there, done that.

torqueboards   100 MW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by torqueboards » Feb 12 2016 4:55pm

Hub motor should be fine if you aren't climbing 15% inclines. If you want hill climbing power, go with a belt setup. Although, I haven't tried the hub motors from Carvon just yet :). Btw my motors are out of stock at the moment. New motors will be 6355 200KV with 12AWG wire motor wires with VESC.

I climb about 20-25% inclines on a dual motor setup.

Your hub motors are better since you have the whole can versus wheel only hub motors.
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LEVer   10 kW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by LEVer » Feb 12 2016 5:24pm

Thanks TB, go Golden State! :mrgreen:

Nick, just try the hubs. If you don't like it or it doesn't work, just return it to me and I'll refund you the payment. Even if it burns up, no worries.

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by torqueboards » Feb 12 2016 5:59pm

LEVer wrote:Thanks TB, go Golden State! :mrgreen:

Nick, just try the hubs. If you don't like it or it doesn't work, just return it to me and I'll refund you the payment. Even if it burns up, no worries.
Now that's some customer service :mrgreen: Can't go wrong with that.
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Hummina Shadeeba   1 MW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by Hummina Shadeeba » Feb 14 2016 1:13am

LEVer wrote:The hub motor is rated max amps of 70A each and can take in even higher amps for a few second. Two of them can take 140A. At 12s (44.4v), you are looking at 6216 Watts or 8.3 hp. The question I ask is, is it the hub motor, or is it the VESC or the 18650 batteries that cannot provide the continuous 70 amps max. I personally haven't tried the VESC and 18650 packs,yet.

I'm always amazed that none of my riders that use dual hubs with only the 6s 120A/150A car ESCs complain about the hills. I even have one that uses 2 of torqueboard's 12s ESC and he says he powers through the steepest hill he can find in his really hilly place, although he does not know what percentages or grades they are.

Also, I know that some of you guys think my hub motors are really not hub motors because they stick out and are not fully enclosed in the wheel. There are reasons for that, one of them is that I want the motors to be able to get cooled by the outside air. I could have made a wheel mold that can fully enclose the motors, but how wise is it to cover the whole motor can with plastic? Been there, done that.
I'd think the reason your motors dont get hot is because they're big not so much so the cooling airflow. I don't know how you're mounting the stator and I think I remember they just have a slide fit and then bolt on. I bet if you put the right goo in there you could pull heat out and use the hanger as a great heatsink. been hunting for a good thermally conductive adhesive for this as well as a thermally conductive potting material for the windings. Heat is a problem with my motors going up repeated hills but mainly because they're only 25mm stators each and yours are like. ..70mm each or something.

With the thin windings and vibrations of a hub wheel the enamel rubbing off seems the biggest danger to instant failure so potting them as well for that reason besides getting rid of heat

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LEVer   10 kW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by LEVer » Feb 14 2016 3:03am

Believe me, every bit of cooling aid counts. And allowing the can of the motor to radiate out the heat helps a lot. The back side of the Sk3s where the skirt bearing is are also shaped like fans, able to redirect airflow. You could probably redesign your hub walls to be like that so that it can take in and/or out air. Real test is in the summer, when there is also heat from the roads.

Having said that, I'm never going back to belt-drives. I can relate to your excitement and awe when you first rode them. You guys want to climb steep hills with hub motors? Easy....go 4WD! Just make sure you have the appropriate ESCs and battery packs to feed the little monsters. :twisted:

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by haimindo » Feb 15 2016 2:52am

Hey LEVer, how good is the waterproofing of your V2 Carvons? Still have not tried my hubz because of the slush outside
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LEVer   10 kW

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Re: Hub motors or Normal Motors

Post by LEVer » Feb 15 2016 3:17am

It's not waterproof...it's not even water-resistant. It's only splash-resistant, and only little splashes.

You cannot submerge it in water, as it will short. And it can't take a lot of splashes mainly because the water will get inside the bearings and ruin it.

You could probably ride inside a parking structure, like RunPlayBack did:


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