Loaded Tesseract Carbon Single VESC 6355 10S4P

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
Post Reply
User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Loaded Tesseract Carbon Single VESC 6355 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Jan 03, 2016 10:35 am

hey guys, havent been tinkering a lot lately, mostly because I simply enjoyed my topspeed, but during xmas I had some time to fiddle on something I wanted to do in a while now: electrify my loaded cantellated tesseract in a lightweight way. :)

while my topspeed really is a gorgeous carver, its not a very light board. was using it for more than daily commutes lately and I quite often ran into the issue of carrying it around through shops, crowds, etc.
been using my tesseract for a while now without a motor and I think its a really really great and versatile board. I also felt like 2 motors is actually overkill, never really needed the power and ran torqueboards ESC on lowest acceleration settings. I also feel like beyond 40km/h I actually have to stop carving and then the fun is pretty much gone for me. :lol:


first shot:
Image

first iteration:
Image

final result:
Image



Part list:
Board & Hardware: Loaded Cantellated Tesseract, 80A Kegels (*update: back to 90mm flywheels 75A), 44° Calibers, front wedged by 6° to make it 50°, rear kept at 44°. I like a slightly more agile front compared to rear!
Motor and Mount: 1x 6355 R-Specc & Enertion Aluminum/Carbon mount
Gearing: 15T -> 36T = topspeed of 43km/h. *update: 16/36T with 15mm belt, theoretical topspeed 52kph, reached 45kph *update2: changed back to 15/36T due to heat issues from wide gearing. sk3 6374 168kV incoming!
1x VESC
10S4P DIY Battery, currently lent from TopSpeed build

Described the board here already, the Kegels are more uncomfortable than my 90mm 75A flywheels and less grippy too after they are broken in, but they are quite a bit lighter (200g total)! *update: screw the weight, the abecs ride is so much smoother than the kegels with much better grip on rough surfaces - back to abecs and not looking back!!

After trying torques V1 mount, I tested the enertion mount this time. it definitely is more unique in its approach and for the calibers, its also a great looking and very solid choice - less flexible but if you dont need the flexibility I can highly recommend it too. I didnt weight them, but it feels like the enertion approach is a little lighter than the torque v1 ... and easier to assemble too. the upside of the reduced flexibility. :)

Finally I got my first VESC. Took me 20min to set everything up, tested the FOC mode too - overall it feels a LOT more advanced than the torqueboard ESCs with 4 major advantages: super smooth spinup, very very silent, a working battery cutoff voltage and lastly its really really small! Im quite in love with that unit, mostly because it allows a much smaller case.

took one off the latest enertion batches - HW4.10 - its well made with the exception of one little detail: needed a different layout of the battery connectors, so I opened up the shrink tube and found that only a fraction of the seemingly thick cable was actually soldered to the capacitor board. corrected that slight oversight with some soldering, also made the connecting cables a little longer to allow the way I want to place the VESC - rest of the assembly has been working flawlessly though. plug in and go basically.
Image

fist spinup in FOC mode after flawless autodetection of all motor parameters:


I also followed the guide on enertion forums here to set up a nunchuck direct connection to the vesc - and put all of it into a neat shrink tube package. think for this board Ill be fine with my nunchuck, curious about a built in nunchuck compared to the wiiceiver, which has no idea about the ESCs. my biggest complaint about wiiceiver has been, that it doesnt actually know about how fast the engine spins for the cruise control button. it only derived the motor rpm from your current lever position. im hoping now with the VESC, that I could theoretically push the board to my desired speed, hit cruise control and stay at that speed. not sure how it works, ill find out very soon. :)

For this build Im also skipping the quite heavy, quite large and also quite expensive high current switch and just go for a lightweight XT60 or XT90 loopkey from sl33py here. its really perfect - light, sturdy and protects your board against curious colleagues :D
Image

thanks to the heavily reduced electronic package with the same DIY 10S4P TopSpeed battery, I can run a 45x15cm case instead of the topspeed 60x15cm case!! its insane - check out the comparison of the large topspeed case vs. the tesseract form factor (case not built yet).

comparison of the 2 boards and cases:
Image

my topspeed rear section is 2 giant torqueboard escs, 1x giant high current switch, receiver, cables. my tesseract rear is only 1x vesc with directly attached nunchuck receiver and future loopkey switch:
Image

only the tesseract next to the giant topspeed case :)
Image


waiting for the last parts to build the tesseract case now, otherwise Im good to go for spring. will weight and report back once its fully assembled. 8)


p.s.: after getting full vacuum bagging equipment I now rebuild the board completely *click*
Last edited by whitepony on Jun 12, 2016 12:26 pm, edited 10 times in total.

User avatar
okp
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1169
Joined: Oct 26, 2014 3:27 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by okp » Jan 03, 2016 11:06 am

great job ! tesseract is beautiful !

torqueboards
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3907
Joined: May 27, 2013 10:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by torqueboards » Jan 03, 2016 7:41 pm

Great build. I've recently been working on a 29" jet with dual rear 6355 but still makes it much heavier. I may drop one motor and use a single.

Can't wait to see the final build :)
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

Trbt555
10 W
10 W
Posts: 77
Joined: Oct 26, 2015 12:47 am

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by Trbt555 » Jan 04, 2016 1:15 am

whitepony wrote: took one off the latest enertion batches - HW4.10 - its well made with the exception of one little detail: needed a different layout of the battery connectors, so I opened up the shrink tube and found that only a fraction of the seemingly thick cable was actually soldered to the condenser board. corrected that slight oversight with some soldering, also made the connecting cables a little longer to allow the way I want to place the VESC - rest of the assembly has been working flawlessly though. plug in and go basically.
Image
Yep, I noticed the same thing on battery the wires soldered onto the VESC. I ordered two and only one is working.
Had to return one, it will take ages to get back.
I'm not happy with their quality. Enertion does not test the VESC under load either so it's basically a $100+ gamble.
Shred.

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 04, 2016 1:10 pm

torqueboards wrote:Great build. I've recently been working on a 29" jet with dual rear 6355 but still makes it much heavier. I may drop one motor and use a single.
heh, thats really short :D

I dont see a reason to use 2 motors anymore really, especially after building my topspeed. sure, rushing to 50km/h can be fun, but I just live for carving between 25-40km/h. below 25 its boring, beyond 40km/h Im starting to worry about grip. I also accelerate/brake rarely ... often staying at one speed for several kilometers. :)

the downsides of 2 motors are pretty large imo ... nearly double costs, doubled chances for a possible hardware failure, probably adds at least 1kg to the setup. but its very flat around my place, maybe Id have a different opinion if there were more slopes. :)

torqueboards
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3907
Joined: May 27, 2013 10:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by torqueboards » Jan 05, 2016 12:13 pm

I think for flats single motor is all you will ever really need. However, I do like the added traction a second motor provides going uphill here 20-28% inclines. If no hills, single motor is perfect.
DIYElectricSkateboard.com Electric Skateboard Kits

User avatar
psychotiller
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1080
Joined: Jan 01, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Orange County, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by psychotiller » Jan 05, 2016 12:29 pm

I've always been for single motor builds. The best recipe for success is a 245kv 63mm @ 8s using a 15mm belt.
www.psychotiller.com

builds:
XT Wheels/Custom Hub & mount on Randal 180's/Drop Throughhttps://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=59259
6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=60449
"Have you ever heard of Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons!"-Vizzini

User avatar
okp
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1169
Joined: Oct 26, 2014 3:27 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by okp » Jan 05, 2016 1:44 pm

hey psycho,

could you tell me more about the performances & average miles coverage with this setup ? why not a 9mm belt ?

WeeChumlee
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 350
Joined: Jul 08, 2015 9:47 am

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by WeeChumlee » Jan 06, 2016 8:33 am

Quite agree with Psychotiller.
I have two single motor boards and am currently building a pneumatic dual to see the difference.
One of my singles had a 9mm belt (5mm pitch), the other a 15mm belt (3mm pitch). Both 50mm motors.
I noticed, especially on braking, that the 9mm belt was slipping a lot more - despite the deeper 5mm pitch.
I have since upgraded this to a 15mm, 5mm pitch belt and 63mm motor. Much. much better. Adding another much, just because it really is.
Running a 63mm motor on a 9mm belt would, in my opinion, not be great.
Yeah, more drag when pushing - but I am to old to push - that is why I got a motor. :o)

My dual will have 9mm belts but obviously as there are two....

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 06, 2016 9:39 am

I doubt that 15mm vs. 9mm will perform a lot better for my use case! I just dont brake/accelerate a lot and if I do I usually do it in a smooth way - Im pretty sure that a wider belt will only give me more energy loss for nothing in return!

randyc1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Dec 03, 2015 8:34 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by randyc1 » Jan 06, 2016 1:33 pm

WeeChumlee wrote:Quite agree with Psychotiller.
I have two single motor boards and am currently building a pneumatic dual to see the difference.
One of my singles had a 9mm belt (5mm pitch), the other a 15mm belt (3mm pitch). Both 50mm motors.
I noticed, especially on braking, that the 9mm belt was slipping a lot more - despite the deeper 5mm pitch.
I have since upgraded this to a 15mm, 5mm pitch belt and 63mm motor. Much. much better. Adding another much, just because it really is.
Running a 63mm motor on a 9mm belt would, in my opinion, not be great.
Yeah, more drag when pushing - but I am to old to push - that is why I got a motor. :o)

My dual will have 9mm belts but obviously as there are two....
Can i ask: where do u buy your 15mm wide Gears (mot & wheel) ?

User avatar
psychotiller
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1080
Joined: Jan 01, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Orange County, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by psychotiller » Jan 06, 2016 3:21 pm

okp wrote:hey psycho,

could you tell me more about the performances & average miles coverage with this setup ? why not a 9mm belt ?
All of my single motor builds have been with 15mm belts mostly because it seemed a nice way to reduce the possibility of belt slip. Also, you have more surface area so you don't have to have as much tension on your belt which leaves you with a board that pretty much pushes/coasts like a non powered board. less tension also makes for a quieter board. You'd have to be using 18 to 20 tooth motor pulleys with 9mm belts to keep the teeth meshing.

You might be able to use a 9mm set up,(it would be lighter) but I would also recommend using a belt tensioner just to make sure you cover a few more teeth on the pulleys.

Randyc1, I usually buy my pulleys from sdp-si and my belts from v-belt suppy. It's hit and miss though with stock so sometimes I find myself using amazon or ebay.
www.psychotiller.com

builds:
XT Wheels/Custom Hub & mount on Randal 180's/Drop Throughhttps://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=59259
6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=60449
"Have you ever heard of Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons!"-Vizzini

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 06, 2016 5:38 pm

pretty minimalistic electronic package - dont think you make make it much smaller and lighter with 40x 18650 cells:

Image
Image
cable setup done, lots of soldering and rearranging. usb port and motor connectors exit in the back and can be accessed without removing the future case. at the side I used an XT60 instead of an XT90 loop key as on/off "switch". XT90 seemed a little large compared to the fairly weak connections everywhere on the vesc. it most certainly wont be the limiting factor when it comes to current at least .. limited VESC current to 30A max too cause I dont trust that little box without any heat spreaders fully yet. nunchuck receiver is now fully heat-shrinked too. gave it a quick spin through the apartment. :)

blcd mode worked flawlessly, FOC 2.7beta wasnt working well with the nunchuck yet though - some irratic behavior. the few times I ran FOC it really impressed me though ... soo silent, its amazing.


Image
glimpse of how it will look in the end: pretty smooth! :D just waiting for the rubber tubes and aluminum L-profiles for the sidewalls now. Im tempted to sink the electronics slightly into the board, since its stiff enough to hold up. now sure how though, dont have the tools for that kind of operation right now. :?

User avatar
psychotiller
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1080
Joined: Jan 01, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Orange County, Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by psychotiller » Jan 06, 2016 6:36 pm

Love the build! Looks like its going to be nimble.
www.psychotiller.com

builds:
XT Wheels/Custom Hub & mount on Randal 180's/Drop Throughhttps://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=59259
6" Pneumatic Tire Drop Down/Drop Through https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35&t=60449
"Have you ever heard of Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons!"-Vizzini

randyc1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Dec 03, 2015 8:34 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by randyc1 » Jan 06, 2016 7:20 pm

psychotiller wrote:
okp wrote:hey psycho,

could you tell me more about the performances & average miles coverage with this setup ? why not a 9mm belt ?
All of my single motor builds have been with 15mm belts mostly because it seemed a nice way to reduce the possibility of belt slip. Also, you have more surface area so you don't have to have as much tension on your belt which leaves you with a board that pretty much pushes/coasts like a non powered board. less tension also makes for a quieter board. You'd have to be using 18 to 20 tooth motor pulleys with 9mm belts to keep the teeth meshing.

You might be able to use a 9mm set up,(it would be lighter) but I would also recommend using a belt tensioner just to make sure you cover a few more teeth on the pulleys.

Randyc1, I usually buy my pulleys from sdp-si and my belts from v-belt suppy. It's hit and miss though with stock so sometimes I find myself using amazon or ebay.
Thanks Psychotiller!

WeeChumlee
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 350
Joined: Jul 08, 2015 9:47 am

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by WeeChumlee » Jan 07, 2016 4:56 am

--> Randyc1
I spoke to Richard at http://aliendrivesystems.com and he set me up with the gears. He even made a new gear fitting for the Abec Flywheel clone I had.

--> Whitepony
You are quite correct of course. If you are not accelerating/braking a lot then a 9mm would be better.
I use my boards for commuting and have a lot of people dodging and hills to cope with, braking and accelerating all the time so the 15mm belt was a vast improvement.

piyiotisk
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by piyiotisk » Jan 17, 2016 6:34 pm

can you say how is the speed/torque compare to a dual setup? Thanks. Great build by the way!!!

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 18, 2016 6:46 am

from living room burnouts I can say that the torque is strong enough to break the wheel free (I dont really know why youd have to go beyond 9mm belts really). its not as brutal as a dual drive simply due to wheel slip, but still really strong - much stronger acceleration than my evolve if I boost the vesc motor current high enough. 20A is smooth relaxed acceleration, 40A is already pretty strong, 60A I had constant burnouts!

cant comment on topspeed yet, waiting for better weather. I expect at least 40km/h gps speed!

I really just want to carve at 25-35km/h with a touring range of 30km+ with the lightest possible setup to make carrying it around as easy as possible. :)

randyc1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Dec 03, 2015 8:34 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by randyc1 » Jan 18, 2016 10:33 am

Hi.

Do you know what motor is in your evolve ?

And on your build, Is there a way to Calibrate Acceleration even with 60A max output ?

Thanks.

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 18, 2016 11:46 am

evolve motor is some giant sensored 200W inrunner, very heavy, but also very durable, sadly I dont know more about the motor.

Im not sure if I understood the 60A calibration thing correctly - you meant control acceleration with a current limit of 60A? didnt feel like a problem with the nunchuck if thats what you meant. I didnt need the 60A though, will use a max of 40A to take it easy on the cells. :)

User avatar
chaka
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 307
Joined: Jul 02, 2015 2:42 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by chaka » Jan 18, 2016 12:07 pm

9mm belt are inadequate for a single drive. You have never been one to take anyones word so you will just have to find out the shortcomings yourself. Braking is when they usually start slipping.

randyc1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 263
Joined: Dec 03, 2015 8:34 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by randyc1 » Jan 18, 2016 12:12 pm

whitepony wrote:evolve motor is some giant sensored 200W inrunner, very heavy, but also very durable, sadly I dont know more about the motor.

Im not sure if I understood the 60A calibration thing correctly - you meant control acceleration with a current limit of 60A? didnt feel like a problem with the nunchuck if thats what you meant. I didnt need the 60A though, will use a max of 40A to take it easy on the cells. :)

Yes , Controlled acceleration thats what i meant,.. in earlier post , you mentioned constant burnouts with 60A.

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 18, 2016 2:30 pm

chaka wrote:9mm belt are inadequate for a single drive. You have never been one to take anyones word so you will just have to find out the shortcomings yourself. Braking is when they usually start slipping.
hehe, you are right about that! ;)

I simply cannot see the problem with 9mm when I can lock up the wheels with my dual drive 9mm topspeed. if that works for dual rear, it works the same way for single drive. of course I CAN always force slip the belt if I go from full throttle to full braking instantly, since the acceleration side is tensioned and the brake side is loose in that moment, so it will jump a tooth or 2 until the brake side tension ramped up. I can also slip the 15mm belt of my evolve if I push it like that.
if you use reasonably smooth transitions before going full braking/full throttle there just isnt a problem, else I wouldnt be able to lock my wheels with the topspeed.

I guess it depends a little on your driving style in the end. :)
Last edited by whitepony on Jan 18, 2016 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
whitepony
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 665
Joined: Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by whitepony » Jan 18, 2016 2:41 pm

randyc1 wrote:Yes , Controlled acceleration thats what i meant,.. in earlier post , you mentioned constant burnouts with 60A.
ah well yea, I had a problem with my VESC, posted about that in another thread. it kept crashing on me, but only under heavy load from 40A onwards. it might have been my caps board, which I replaced by 2x 2200uF parallel caps and since then I couldnt provoke the issue anymore:

Image

I made these tests in the living room after replacing the caps to force the VESC to crash, so thats why it seemed as if I couldnt control 60A current. I just ramped the max motor current up by 20A each step and then went full throttle for 1-2 seconds before I hit the wall. :lol:

long story short: with 60A+ the wheel just slipped the whole time in my full load tests. think with the wonderful nunchuck vesc combo, controllability is not an issue. its all about the cruise control button <3 <3 <3

its not working like the wiiceiver + nunchuck, that forces you to find the right lever position and then press C to keep that speed. the VESC knows exactly what RPM the motor currently has, so if you press C the vesc keeps up the motor rpm = current speed. so you can kick start your board, press C and cruise along with kick start speed. battery friendly startup and it feels very natural too. :)

piyiotisk
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 15, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Loaded Tesseract Lightweight

Post by piyiotisk » Jan 18, 2016 3:02 pm

With the Nyko Kama wireless wii NunChuck I have to buy the Wiiceiver or I only have to connect the transmitter wires to the VESC ?

Post Reply