SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

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SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 12 2016 11:12am

Which motor do you prefer for a single motor E-sakate ,.. and why ?

SK3 6364 -245KV,.. or 6374-192KV ??

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by piyiotisk » Feb 12 2016 11:26am

Sk6374 i think is best suited for a single drive application, because it will provide you with more torque.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by whitepony » Feb 12 2016 11:42am

piyiotisk wrote:Sk6374 i think is best suited for a single drive application, because it will provide you with more torque.
my rspecc 6355 single drive has quite a lot of torque already. I would max my motor drive wheel teeth and choose the best KV value for my desired topspeed/battery.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 12 2016 1:05pm

whitepony wrote:
piyiotisk wrote:Sk6374 i think is best suited for a single drive application, because it will provide you with more torque.
my rspecc 6355 single drive has quite a lot of torque already. I would max my motor drive wheel teeth and choose the best KV value for my desired topspeed/battery.
Im slowly building my board now whitepony , i have the SK3 6364 , i have a 36 tooth on my kegel 80mm, going to order a 14T for motor, ..maybe try a 12T with a diy " Binder" for more teeth in mesh ??? .
Speed is more than i will probably use , but i cant really change gearing due to size constrictions, , .....but if i build a second board , wonder if i should try the 6374 and gear UP for.speed instead of opposite?

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by whitepony » Feb 12 2016 2:55pm

I would try to go for larger motor pulleys, so more teeth are gripping into the belt (if you go for 9mm). have good experience so far with 15/36 and 16/36, then choose the battery according to max speed vs KV maybe?

6364 with 245KV and 16/36T gearing would go for 35kph with 6S, 47kph @ 8S (theory, slower in praxis). 44kph @ 8S with 15/36T is maybe the most interesting combo.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 12 2016 8:24pm

For speed 8s is sufficient ,...But what about all the VESC theory , about lowering Amp with higher 10s voltage ??

Seeing how you generously showed us how to build a great 10s4p pack,...I was planning to build one just like yours !

I verified with the (center to center calc) , with a 14T i will have at my C to C of 80mm, 6 tooth in mesh on a 15mm wide belt.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by Grizzl-E » Feb 12 2016 9:31pm

I have used both, one for my board and one for my brother in laws, both geared to hit 35kph on 6s. Unless you want faster or have crazy hills I prefer the smaller motor. It has enough torque and doesn't spin so easy. My 6374 192kv is on a 34inch kick tail board and I really have to watch I don't gun it when I have traction. It's a little too much on a short board.
Only brutal acceleration will do.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 16 2016 11:45am

Grizzl-E wrote:I have used both, one for my board and one for my brother in laws, both geared to hit 35kph on 6s. Unless you want faster or have crazy hills I prefer the smaller motor. It has enough torque and doesn't spin so easy. My 6374 192kv is on a 34inch kick tail board and I really have to watch I don't gun it when I have traction. It's a little too much on a short board.
What ESC were you using on your setups

Some are saying the acceleration power on the VESC is almost TO smooth !!

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by torqueboards » Feb 16 2016 4:02pm

Personally, I enjoy the higher KV. Higher KV is great for flat ground and uphill 20-25% inclines. Specifically, 230kv, 245kv, 260kv works great. I probably wouldn't go over 280kv even 260kv for that matter though. I think that's the tipping point when the torque will start to be noticeable.

I've ridden the 170KV, 190KV, 200KV, 192KV and I just don't like them as much. The torque doesn't seem to affect anything that much more noticeable. I prefer the higher top speed when I need it.

Going uphills is much better with the higher kv options. These are hills that are 20-25% inclines.

The higher KV motors also spin more freely since they are higher KV.

VESC seems to be the upcoming winner for ESC's. The price point is getting much lower and everything is pretty much built into the VESC. No need for separate UBECs.
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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 16 2016 5:33pm

torqueboards wrote:Personally, I enjoy the higher KV. Higher KV is great for flat ground and uphill 20-25% inclines. Specifically, 230kv, 245kv, 260kv works great. I probably wouldn't go over 280kv even 260kv for that matter though. I think that's the tipping point when the torque will start to be noticeable.

I've ridden the 170KV, 190KV, 200KV, 192KV and I just don't like them as much. The torque doesn't seem to affect anything that much more noticeable. I prefer the higher top speed when I need it.

Going uphills is much better with the higher kv options. These are hills that are 20-25% inclines.

The higher KV motors also spin more freely since they are higher KV.

VESC seems to be the upcoming winner for ESC's. The price point is getting much lower and everything is pretty much built into the VESC. No need for separate UBECs.

...So many different opinions by different people ! I'm building with the 6364-245kv like you mentioned,.. VESC also on a 10S4P , i Have 80mm Kegels, 36T, and ordered 14T,15T,16T so i will be able to try all 3. Just hope i can figure out that VESC !!

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by Leonard » Feb 17 2016 7:27am

Where are you buying the pulleys?
I got 12T/36T for a 6374 and maybe I did a mistake...

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by chaka » Feb 17 2016 8:50am

torqueboards wrote:Personally, I enjoy the higher KV. Higher KV is great for flat ground and uphill 20-25% inclines. Specifically, 230kv, 245kv, 260kv works great. I probably wouldn't go over 280kv even 260kv for that matter though. I think that's the tipping point when the torque will start to be noticeable.

I've ridden the 170KV, 190KV, 200KV, 192KV and I just don't like them as much. The torque doesn't seem to affect anything that much more noticeable. I prefer the higher top speed when I need it.

Going uphills is much better with the higher kv options. These are hills that are 20-25% inclines.

The higher KV motors also spin more freely since they are higher KV.

VESC seems to be the upcoming winner for ESC's. The price point is getting much lower and everything is pretty much built into the VESC. No need for separate UBECs.
None of this is true. Different motors have different optimal KV ranges. The sk3 6374 happens to peak around 192kv. The 192kv paired with a VESC is super smooth and extremely powerful when hill climbing. Be careful buying the cheap VESC's, you could end up spending a whole lot more due to failures etc...

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 17 2016 9:53am

Leonard wrote:Where are you buying the pulleys?
I got 12T/36T for a 6374 and maybe I did a mistake...
..Bought Gears from Beltingonline.com

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by randyc1 » Feb 17 2016 10:03am

chaka wrote:
torqueboards wrote:Personally, I enjoy the higher KV. Higher KV is great for flat ground and uphill 20-25% inclines. Specifically, 230kv, 245kv, 260kv works great. I probably wouldn't go over 280kv even 260kv for that matter though. I think that's the tipping point when the torque will start to be noticeable.

I've ridden the 170KV, 190KV, 200KV, 192KV and I just don't like them as much. The torque doesn't seem to affect anything that much more noticeable. I prefer the higher top speed when I need it.

Going uphills is much better with the higher kv options. These are hills that are 20-25% inclines.

The higher KV motors also spin more freely since they are higher KV.

VESC seems to be the upcoming winner for ESC's. The price point is getting much lower and everything is pretty much built into the VESC. No need for separate UBECs.
None of this is true. Different motors have different optimal KV ranges. The sk3 6374 happens to peak around 192kv. The 192kv paired with a VESC is super smooth and extremely powerful when hill climbing. Be careful buying the cheap VESC's, you could end up spending a whole lot more due to failures etc...
Wow this whole KV issue will never be put to rest !
I'm surprised I have'nt seen a Real world Torque Tests comparing Identical (Motor,Gearing,wheels,power) with different KV values !

....Well my VESC comes from you Chaka. I will maybe try the (6374) for my 2nd Board,... but for this build i have the 6364, what Motor Gear would you recommend chaka with a 36T on 80mm Wheel with a 10S4P pack?

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by chaka » Feb 17 2016 10:31am

14 tooth would be as low as I would go on a single drive, might get some slippage if you go lower. This will give you an electrical top speed of 33 mph, ideally you would shoot for something a little lower to keep it safe and running cool no matter what. If you start pushing beyond 25mph you will likely engage the VESC thermal back off mode, The board will begin to feel sluggish as the VESC backs off the "current" output. This is all adjustable within the bldc-tool.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by torqueboards » Feb 17 2016 10:33am

chaka wrote:
torqueboards wrote:Personally, I enjoy the higher KV. Higher KV is great for flat ground and uphill 20-25% inclines. Specifically, 230kv, 245kv, 260kv works great. I probably wouldn't go over 280kv even 260kv for that matter though. I think that's the tipping point when the torque will start to be noticeable.

I've ridden the 170KV, 190KV, 200KV, 192KV and I just don't like them as much. The torque doesn't seem to affect anything that much more noticeable. I prefer the higher top speed when I need it.

Going uphills is much better with the higher kv options. These are hills that are 20-25% inclines.

The higher KV motors also spin more freely since they are higher KV.

VESC seems to be the upcoming winner for ESC's. The price point is getting much lower and everything is pretty much built into the VESC. No need for separate UBECs.
None of this is true. Different motors have different optimal KV ranges. The sk3 6374 happens to peak around 192kv. The 192kv paired with a VESC is super smooth and extremely powerful when hill climbing. Be careful buying the cheap VESC's, you could end up spending a whole lot more due to failures etc...
Can you explain more? I've tried lower KV and higher KV.

Time and time again.. Higher KV performs better this is actual testing going up 15-25% grades.

I've also heard this from my customers who have done the same tests as well.

Of course SK3 6374 192kv will be perfectly fine going uphill. A 6355 230-245KV will perform just as well if not better. I don't see any need for the added weight of a 6374.
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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by chaka » Feb 17 2016 11:20am

You are making blanket statements on a topic that has many variables. Gear ratio, stator size, voltage and many other things need to be considered when comparing different motors and how well they climb hills. You can't just come in and say "higher kv is better" because you had some motors wound to a lower kv than original specified and they didn't have as much torque as the original spec.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by torqueboards » Feb 17 2016 11:26am

chaka wrote:You are making blanket statements on a topic that has many variables. Gear ratio, stator size, voltage and many other things need to be considered when comparing different motors and how well they climb hills. You can't just come in and say "higher kv is better" because you had some motors wound to a lower kv than original specified and they didn't have as much torque as the original spec.
True in that sense.

I still think do think that you would have more options with a higher KV motor (300kv less. Although, I wouldn't use 300kv. 260/245/230 better.) than a lower KV. Plus the added loss of wattage and increase in drag for a lower KV is a downfall IMO. I'd prefer to adjust the gearing ratio vs change the KV to a lower option. But that's just me.
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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by WeeChumlee » Feb 17 2016 5:00pm

He he, this will always be a contentious argument .

I have a 5065 motor with 270 KV. Does OK but hills are not where it wants to go.
I also have a 6374 168KV, it laughs at hills.
Also a dual 5065 270KV, great at everything.
All comparing apples with oranges.

I have read quite a bit on this topic, not just here but for other applications as well, and there is no perfect answer. (IMHO)
Quite a few voices are in the opinion that lower KV, in combination with higher voltage is the way to go. Examples are to be seen with RC cars and aeroplanes, the bigger they get generally the lower the KV and higher the voltage. Skateboards have to move some heavy weights so personally I would and will always use larger 63mm motors, probably not over 200KV. (Particularly if single drive or MTB)

But like Torqueboards says, that's just me.

Good advice, then look for people who are your approximate size and capability and see what they find best.
Size and capability means a lot here.
Someone who can rock a long board and weighs 65kg will want a whole different setup than myself who thinks 20mph is fast and weighs near 200 Pounds

My 2 Cents. :D

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by SteveS » Feb 18 2016 1:10pm

WeeChumlee wrote:Quite a few voices are in the opinion that lower KV, in combination with higher voltage is the way to go.
I wonder if this is the heart of the debate? The SK3 6374 192kv motor at 6S will only spin 22.2*192 = 4,262rpm, while it would spin 44.4*192 = 8,525 at 12S. So, it's really only at 12S that the motor is capable of operating about where Vedder says it's most efficient.

Moreover, with an 80A maximum current, it can't produce more than 22.2*80 = 1,776 watts at 6S, while it could easily produce its rated 2,700 watts at 12S.

But this is still incomplete (because my knowledge is incomplete). Can more knowledgable members answer just how much power can this motor actually produce at (1) particular voltages and (2) particular rpms?

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by Ptown_Cruiser » Feb 29 2016 6:46pm

Has anyone tried a 6374 single motor set up at 12s? if so what gearing did you use? I wonder what kind of performance you would get with this. Right now I am running a 6374 at 6s and 18/36 gearing, it does a pretty good job, descent speed, can climbs hills, but I a have noticed that it puts a lot of stress on my batteries and I am thinking of upgrading.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by SteveS » Feb 29 2016 8:25pm

Ptown_Cruiser wrote:Has anyone tried a 6374 single motor set up at 12s? if so what gearing did you use? I wonder what kind of performance you would get with this. Right now I am running a 6374 at 6s and 18/36 gearing, it does a pretty good job, descent speed, can climbs hills, but I a have noticed that it puts a lot of stress on my batteries and I am thinking of upgrading.
I run this with 15:36 gearing and 90 mm wheels; I find it completely adequate. On flats, it's still accelerating when I run out of nerve at 28mph. And it powers up hills better/faster than my Boosted Dual+ did.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by Ptown_Cruiser » Feb 29 2016 10:01pm

SteveS wrote: I run this with 15:36 gearing and 90 mm wheels; I find it completely adequate. On flats, it's still accelerating when I run out of nerve at 28mph. And it powers up hills better/faster than my Boosted Dual+ did.
Do you mind if I ask what batteries you are using? also are you using a vesc or something else?

I have been curious as to why my batteries have not held up to well (i am using 2x3s zippy 8000 mah 30c, so I would think that they should be fine), I am a pretty heavy guy (230 lbs) and I have chalked it up to that so far, but It also makes me wonder if something else is going on with my setup. I might need to go with a more conservative gearing than 15t/36t, and definitely more conservative than my current 18t/36t as well in order to reduce stress on the batteries.

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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by torqueboards » Feb 29 2016 10:49pm

You guys should test higher KV motors. 230, 245, 260 with a similar gearing ratio 15/36 or so. I'd be interested in your findings.
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Re: SK3 6364 vs 6374 for SIngle???

Post by WeeChumlee » Mar 01 2016 7:07am

@Ptown
With a 1:2 gearing (with 6S and 230 lbs) and you will get your required speed but be drawing an awful lot of current, particularly at starts and acceleration. I presume this is why your batteries are not lasting long. Gearing down a bit will definitely help in that regard but you will obviously lose a bit of speed.
Gearing down and also increasing to 12S should give you the best of both worlds though. You would be drawing far less current, stressing the batteries far less, and still get handfuls of speed.

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