Razor E3KW Brushed

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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Ianhill
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Razor E3KW Brushed

Post by Ianhill » Mar 18, 2016 10:39 am

I wanted a fairly agile light scooter upto 30mph with a go anywhere attitude Ive built a 10s9p 18650 razor in the past but needed a bit more punch without being to power hungry so I built this mods as follows.
Razor e300/3000
Front disk 160mm rotor
Rear band brake so i can still adjust chain tension
500 lumens dual spectrum headlight plus 1w red rear
50v 60a 15khz pwm controller 12 FETs and 4 caps (very cheap but reliable and widely available)
12s2p 16ah lipo for drive only
1s3p 11.4ah lion
My1020 36v/27.8a overvolted/current to 50.4v/60a peak

I run a 60amp maxi blade fuse for the controller and 5amp fuse for my lights and voltage step up board 4-12v for my anti run away relay and car horn :).
It all fits in the stock battery tray but the motor had to go above deck as it would have ruined the ground clearance all in all it cost £250 battery's included but had a charger already videos too come shortly.
Last edited by Ianhill on Aug 23, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Mar 18, 2016 2:06 pm

Little video showing the scooter not finished yet but operational
https://youtu.be/Hn_X3pHw3cU

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Mar 18, 2016 2:54 pm

I rode the scooter 12 miles of gental 20mph or so and the odd burst of speed and used around 50% of the battery but it was very cold 7c so the lipos were holding back their capacity i didnt want to draw to hard and damge them a warm day I need.
Last edited by Ianhill on Mar 19, 2016 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Mar 19, 2016 2:18 pm

https://youtu.be/wj0obJ9lic8
Another video showing my battery's installed in the box.
Took the scooter on a 12mile eachway trip with a charge back to full at halfway, I used around 50% each cell was at 3.88v it was very cold around 7c so been lipo I think that didn't help with range, but I couldn't go to fast with the wind chill i was frozen never mind the batterys.Tommorow I not using it to commute so I will warm it with a blanky over night feed it some electric and then put a acceleration hill climb and top speed run up on youtube show what i been yacking all this brushed nonsense about nd give a bit of math on my run then on here to go with it show brushed motors are not dead just yet there a few good choice's of motor for those on a tight budget if you exploit them right.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Mar 21, 2016 12:24 am

https://youtu.be/yxJOdD75NbQ

Finally a video showing the performance of my mods, around 3m12s I hit 32mph according to GPS, the whole ride was just under 3 miles i used 1volt on a 12s pack each cell was 4.12 after the ride. And I went up the steepest hills around to show it can climb anything. The motor at best is 70% efficient so with chain and friction losses etc I'd say theres no more than 2000w actually reaching the wheel at best even though 3000w is consumed at peak.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 02, 2016 9:43 am

Let a bit of air out of the tyres from 40 to 20psi and done some offroading with the tyres walls being so tall there's a fair amount of suspension in just the tyre alone, goes up stoney paths nicely I put it on the scales and it only weighs 23.5kg and thats with 12s 16ah much lighter than the Chinese sealed lead acid alternative and it cost me less too, with me on its just under 90kg and the motor makes light work of that up any hill and it light enough to lift over gates and good off road.
I will be going brushless in the future but because ive built it I might as well abuse it till it breaks seems robust at the moment though I must admit.
You will have to excuse the green and red wires to the bars my throttle is still a pot on the bars twist it with thumb very dodgy but adds to the fun of it all :) the hall effect twist is there with the wires all tidy in battery tray just won't play ball for me tryed signal diodes, pull up resistors but just can not get the full throttle range with it.
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All terrain razor

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 07, 2016 5:40 pm

For this scooter its a finished project now fit for purpose performs well and meets expectations, Time for my next project I wont be doing a build thread to the relief of most I appreciate everyone's input haha.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by WeeChumlee » Apr 08, 2016 4:54 am

Nice one Ian
Looks like some serious hill climbs done there at some speed.
Good little commuter you built there.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 08, 2016 5:48 am

Thank you chummlee you broke my silence lmao.
It does what it says on the tin its not bad bad but can be improved

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 09, 2016 5:56 pm

Went for a 15mile ride tonight was very cold crisp night around 05°c not the best for lipo so i went as fast as i could covered the 15miles in 30 minutes all performed flawlessly even with the cold temps the motor was very warm to the touch I had drove it very hard and used 12ah of the 16ah available when the pack is at optimum temps unlike the 5°c so i was very close to empty in the respect that temps change capacity.
I did beat the bus over a 6mile stretch too mind his passengers where warm I in the other hand was not.
I work that out at a 24amp average draw around 2c on my cells so I was not pulling huge loads through the pack or I think the temp would have lowered the performance on a larger motor.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 09, 2016 6:38 pm

1 hour later and its still mildly warm to the touch if it got much warmer the magnets would have suffered a bit of decay or the armature could swell up rub insulation off to a dead short and melt like cheese toasty.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Apr 10, 2016 12:43 am

WeeChumlee wrote:Nice one Ian
Looks like some serious hill climbs done there at some speed.
Good little commuter you built there.
Somethere, there was a post that the Razor E300 tires last 150 kms.

Reminds me of the Tesla S tires -- they last 15,000 kms and are $400 each, according to one owner, who was very happy to pay for those tires.

But, no suspension? And, a chain that often falls off and needs oiling, adjustments? Real-life experience with Currie stand-up scooters is that the E300 is not a "commuter" ride.

This UUmotor uses a hub motor.
http://www.uumotor.com/store/2-12-inch- ... ooter.html

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 10, 2016 8:06 am

4LivesPerGallon wrote:
WeeChumlee wrote:Nice one Ian
Looks like some serious hill climbs done there at some speed.
Good little commuter you built there.
Somethere, there was a post that the Razor E300 tires last 150 kms.

Reminds me of the Tesla S tires -- they last 15,000 kms and are $400 each, according to one owner, who was very happy to pay for those tires.

But, no suspension? And, a chain that often falls off and needs oiling, adjustments? Real-life experience with Currie stand-up scooters is that the E300 is not a "commuter" ride.

This UUmotor uses a hub motor.
http://www.uumotor.com/store/2-12-inch- ... ooter.html
I really abuse this thing on mountain paths it gets full of mud with no probs ive designed it to be puddle proof, It now has a complete different drivetrain it has larger sprockets and t8f chain so thats never slips or been an issue for me its like a tank just keeps on going but the original chain etc would be fragile I think for my uses.
150km per rear tyre where u hear that? ive covered just over 200miles and I can still see all the tread nearly like new, If it had a rear brake only like standard then maybe but ive added a 160mm front disk. The tyre have a 2 inch wall so unless u pump it up like a basketball there's a fair amount of cushion on the tyre for suspension.
Its never going to be a long distance cruiser it was a fun toy on the cheap I use it to cover a local 15mile one way trip to save millage on my car I would like a emax120s road legal scooter in the future with lots of upgrades.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 14, 2016 4:47 pm

Ive decided its best for me to build the most efficient brushed setup I can at the moment just to be a bit different and because it will be a lot cheaper and I have most of the parts ready :). I have found a controller that is very simple to setup with pots it has adjustable regen upto 50amps and motor current upto 50amps and will go upto 16s lipo hopefully if supplier can make a few mods.
The controller will fit on my razor setup situated in place of my current controller with very close dimensions all I need to change is rear wheel to a minimoto type so i lose my freewheel cog, question is how much range will I increase if any at all it is very steep where I live so i could see it being a benefit as I'm either on the throttle or braking at a slow speed off throttle, but the benefit of being able to go the extra 4s lipo in time should give it a good extra kick for fun if nothing else is gained.
I have a spare 48v my1020 motor too, so I will rewind it to have a voltage of 67v theres lots of good threads from endless sphere and v is for voltage on this motor and rewind calculations etc. So in time I will convert to 16s + regen, all in a custom thin gauge metal battery box and stand on lid it will have the same height and razor grip tape standard look etc but the battery box will extend back into the area under deck that I have opened up due to the motor being above deck rather than below have a new higher top speed and a decent twist throttle.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 16, 2016 9:56 pm

After much research it would appear I'm nearly at the limit my motor can produce, I could slightly overvolt to 13s lipo on the 36v with a blower mainly to cool commuter, or and preform a rewind there's room for slight improvement but the 6krpm is max so a simple efficient way of going fast is to just overvolt the 36v to get the 6k rpm and limit current.
The hungarian esc with regen is take it as is or leave it with no reply, and the model of interest to me with regen is only 40v max as is so its not for me.
I know I'm on the limit heat wise and the commuter is a massive weak spot so its going to need a blower no matter what ill keep the freewheel live with the danger pot throttle and a extra lipo cell for the hell of it :)

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 20, 2016 10:23 am

Had an incident today crossed over a dusty path and gave my scooter full throttle with my twist non return pot throttle takes two full turns to get full throttle :oops: , well it spun up went to the side few speed wobbles and spat me off, luckily I managed to return the pot to about 1/3rd throttle before I came off so the thing didn't run away from me like a banshee up the straight but was still revving away on its side its like Christian mind of its own see a scooter no rider flying round running cars off the road :lol:
Not much damage few scrape's on the already battered frame the rubber handlebar grip had a small tear and the back light had shifted slightly tough as old boots this girl just that silly throttle needs a remedy now or a new controller because its holding me back and dangerous.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by elvill » Apr 26, 2016 2:54 pm

Great posts Ianhill,

I too have taken the e300 to the max of its commute abilities, but decided to overvolted the smaller 36v 1020 to get the desired results. I use the 36v 13a 2250rpms motor on 48v it handles the heat very well, carries two ppl and gets to 24mph on 55t but most importantly it just barely sips battery life - IMO this is the best combo of range, speed, torque and price ($45) for an commute e300. I carry my 225lbs and 60lbs son regularly for 4 mile trips. I have tried 6374 outrunner, all the different 1020 motors, most the my16 motors, an industrial mower motor etc... I believe the small 13a high torque 36v1020 is the best combo for e300 size scoots!

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Apr 26, 2016 6:31 pm

Cheers.
For speed this is my fastest results so 28-32mph temps make a big difference, so far its stood up to over 100miles of muddy riding and still counting the my 1020 36v 27.8A on 12s lipo 50.4v its not to bad for range easily over 15miles to 16ah but it could be vastly improved the 48v 1000w would give me a few more miles but be less fun, I have seen plenty of outrunners high speed drag machines but they cost alot more and i feel being so compact the bearings they use are not so robust for my type of abusive driving.
Im collecting parts for a mobility scooter next 72v 20ah lipo, low as possible small fibreglass seat go kart rims for discs upfront and wide rears keep it looking standard for added shocks all on a ebay budget its got to do 35mph+ with 20mile range to fit my needs.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » May 07, 2016 4:32 pm

IMG_20160507_222418.jpg
IMG_20160507_222418.jpg (199.04 KiB) Viewed 4351 times
IMG_20160507_222116.jpg
IMG_20160507_222116.jpg (175.44 KiB) Viewed 4351 times
Added a bit of motor cooling today, I took the brush plate off drilled it and tapped it out to fit PC CPU cooling fins to the rear of the brush plate where most of the heat is mainly generated I figured that at 30mph there is plenty of air flow just a lack of surface area to disapate the heat so I decided using a axial fan would be useless and not last ling with the bumping around so I have took advantage of the moving air flow I already have and as a bonus there's no fan to wire and consume power.
Next I will beef up the motors wires and pump it up too 14s, I'm in the process of fixing a more perminant throttle too from pot to hall.

After striping the motor I expect lots of brush wear but its all clean inside the copper hasn't oxidized like its been overheating so its truly performing well, I have found out its a double would motor with 18awg windings so that might be why its holding up so well and performing stronger than any other my1020 ive had. Its model number is actually a zy1020 36v 1000w.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Jul 19, 2016 8:15 am

Had a small faliure today my insulation failed on my maxi fuse and caused a bit of arcing and soot, but its done a fair few miles now and no real damage just new fuse and terminal, the scooter still got me home :), I get around 315wh per mile at 30mph braking and throttling which is not very bad with how steep some of the climbs are but could be improved massively I believe a Tesla pd85 can match these figure up a gradient at 55mph but thats not stop starting lab conditions and no stone age brushed arc furnace for a motor.

Edit - Silly me i had the decimal point in the wrong spot I get 31.7wh per mile which makes a lot more sense.
Last edited by Ianhill on Jul 21, 2016 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Jul 19, 2016 2:06 pm

Ianhill wrote:
IMG_20160507_222418.jpg
IMG_20160507_222116.jpg
Added a bit of motor cooling today, I took the brush plate off drilled it and tapped it out to fit PC CPU cooling fins to the rear of the brush plate where most of the heat is mainly generated I figured that at 30mph there is plenty of air flow just a lack of surface area to disapate the heat so I decided using a axial fan would be useless and not last ling with the bumping around so I have took advantage of the moving air flow I already have and as a bonus there's no fan to wire and consume power.
Next I will beef up the motors wires and pump it up too 14s, I'm in the process of fixing a more perminant throttle too from pot to hall.

After striping the motor I expect lots of brush wear but its all clean inside the copper hasn't oxidized like its been overheating so its truly performing well, I have found out its a double would motor with 18awg windings so that might be why its holding up so well and performing stronger than any other my1020 ive had. Its model number is actually a zy1020 36v 1000w.

A small computer fan would have been more effective, in my experience.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Jul 19, 2016 4:24 pm

I done a 15 mile ride with temps around 32°c ambient and the motor gets hot but as long as I keep it at high speeds its fine continuous 4000+rpm with all the air movement around 20 to 30mph, but when I stop thats when all the heat comes out or if I ride at 10mph I can get 20+ miles range comfortably but the motor get stupid hot at low rpm if I then go fast as I can it actually cools down a bit, I use this off road so i didn't want to add a fan chances are the bearing would fail and be exposed to mud nd all the elements.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Aug 04, 2016 4:31 pm

Thought I was clever today and my razor flipped me on my back and I was holding handlebars that weren't even there I cause some minor scratches nothing else and a damaged pride as it happened showing off.
I got my 4-1 gearing today too from china so I will fit that soon with a new back tyre give it all a oil and go for a top speed run should be around 35mph then and not so torquey hopefully as it just wants to flip and chuck me on my back.
Compared to my 48v brushless its much lighter, just its bare shell no battery's comparded to the razor with its batterys is much much heavier the brushless is no where near portable at the moment it needs a big diet.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by ElectricGod » Aug 15, 2016 12:29 pm

Ianhill wrote:Thought I was clever today and my razor flipped me on my back and I was holding handlebars that weren't even there I cause some minor scratches nothing else and a damaged pride as it happened showing off.
I got my 4-1 gearing today too from china so I will fit that soon with a new back tyre give it all a oil and go for a top speed run should be around 35mph then and not so torquey hopefully as it just wants to flip and chuck me on my back.
Compared to my 48v brushless its much lighter, just its bare shell no battery's comparded to the razor with its batterys is much much heavier the brushless is no where near portable at the moment it needs a big diet.
Yeah...totally get that! I just don't let anyone ride my ride or do anything but ride around anymore. It seems that showing off is a recipe for disaster.

BTW...too high of gearing (too close to 1:1) will cause you to draw tons of current and the motor will actually be slower and overheat quickly.

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Re: Razor E3000 brushed

Post by Ianhill » Aug 15, 2016 2:33 pm

I'm tight as a nuns knickers when ts come to given people a go as most just abuse anything thats not their own but this he was my fault.
I had a scary wobble over a small hump back bridge on the brushless on my test run i hit it at full speed and the suspension was set up as soft as it would go and it left the ground like I had E.T in a basket on the front, There was metal bars coming out of the floor either side my heart went for a second after a few lefts and rights it straighten up luckily or I'd of been in serious mangled state.

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