Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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Nordle   100 W

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Single VESC SK6374 10S4P

Post by Nordle » Jul 04 2016 4:30pm

Do you use 9mm width DIY's pulleys and belts? I'm a bit afraid that could slip on a single setup. But on the other side i can't find Kegel pulleys somewhere else. (esk8.de is out of stock with their 15mm's).
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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Single VESC SK6374 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Jul 04 2016 4:55pm

alienpowersystem have 15mm pulleys for motors, kegels and flywheels (but only have 9mm in stock right now). Im using old torqueboard motor and wheel pulleys - back then when I bought them for my topspeed, dexter still had 15mm 16T motor pulleys in his shop. not anymore though, its all 12mm now :cry:

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Single VESC SK6374 10S4P

Post by laurentxr » Jul 05 2016 6:41am

Hi Whitpony,

This build like all yours is great and attention to detail is just amazing. I remember you talking about spending hours finding the perfect bushing setup, what did you use this time to get good carving and still no wobble at 40kmh?
Thanks for the info!

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Single VESC SK6374 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Jul 05 2016 8:56am

spent hours on my evovle double kingpin madness, for my calibers Ive got a good setup quickly. using dbl barrels Riptide Krank 93A boardside, Riptide Krank 87A roadside (always with cupped washers, my weight is probably 85kg with clothes and stuff).

to make the calibers extra smooth, you can use riptide 93A pivot cups :)

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Single VESC SK6374 10S4P

Post by Jebe » Aug 04 2016 3:18am

OekM2oC.jpg
OekM2oC.jpg (121.4 KiB) Viewed 913 times
Great job hiding all the cabling
Have you seen the new landyachtz hollowtech range ?

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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Single VESC SK6374 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Aug 29 2016 5:42pm

this board has been such a joy to ride, Im basically using the board whenever I leave the house. it has held up fantastic so far, not a single issue, no rattling, just pure plush carving with an incredibly lively deck. at the same time its so stable at high speeds, just an absolute dream ride, Im running out of ideas what I could improve by now.
checked the battery cell balance status yesterday - no drift up to 2nd digits and Ive ran the battery for about 1000km now! really, who needs a bms? :wink:

Ive found great chargers with end-of-charge adjustment, that charges my battery only to 4.05V/cell for increased lifetime and as a precaution to potential drift *click*

if you followed this forum, you probably also noticed that I switched the calibers for cast ronins (*click*) and extremely happy with that change. ronins are really in a league of their own - so smooth, so precise on small lean, so turny on high lean, so juicy with the tall barrels - I can actually do a u-turn with my 42" vanguard on most streets now and still carve supersmooth and precise at high speeds. :)

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I also swapped out the 6374 168KV with 16/36T gearing for the new APS HEV 6355 190KV with 15/36T gearing. hardly any difference in speed & torque, but makes the board a little lighter which is very welcome, since I really take that board just about anywhere with me! the APS mount that was required for the cast ronin truck adapter has some really unexpected side effects: due to full aluminum mount, the motor heat transfers directly into the mount which in return makes the motor run a lot cooler.

cant stress enough that I think that the flex 1 and flex 2 vanguards are much better carvers than the smaller flex 3+ models that boosted is using. the 2 42" flex versions allow your feet to stand comfortably far away from the trucks, giving you really great damping and a really awesome springy return ... and at the same time, the larger wheelbase makes for a more stable ride.


if you think about building up a vanguard: really, there is no way around a split enclosure and DONT alter the flex with carbon just because someone tells you a vanguard isnt working at higher speeds. it feels like someone had that opinion and the rest of the world chimed in. my vanguard has a top speed of 48kph and I feel extremely comfortable without the slightest signs of speed wobbles. really in love with that board, the flex is so natural and feels just like a soft camber snowboard, the stance is so comfortable and the ride so smooth and soft, its totally addicting and I can really go on forever on that board. :)

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by jujet » Aug 31 2016 8:18am

Hi whitepony, first of all I would like to say that your builds are amazing and very inspiring. So much so in fact that I am actually planning to make a similar build to yours (if that's ok with you) but would like to ask you a couple of questions before.

Did you add the extra layer of carbon fiber on top of the wires in the end?
Are you using 15mm-275 mm belt with the AVS drive system?

Thanks a lot

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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Aug 31 2016 2:20pm

jujet wrote: Did you add the extra layer of carbon fiber on top of the wires in the end?
Are you using 15mm-275 mm belt with the AVS drive system?
hey man, I added just 1 small patch of glass fiber ontop of each channel (non conductive) and one complete layer of glass fibers over the complete surface just to make sure that the wounded bamboo of the vanguard channels is keeping it together ... used glass because of the conductivity AND mostly because I didnt want to make the vanguard any stiffer.

with the ronins Im using a 280mm belt, didnt manage to bring the motor any closer (15/36T gearing)!

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by jujet » Sep 01 2016 5:18am

Interesting. Would you say the extra GFK layer is mandatory?

Also, where did you get the 36 drive wheel for the ABECs? Diyelectricskateboard.com or do you know some shop in Europe who sells them?

What belt size were you using previously, with the caliber trucks ?

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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Sep 04 2016 5:38am

on my last board (the jet spud in my signature), I didnt use a top gfk layer - think you can skip that and just fill up the wires with some putty. :)

the drive wheel is from torqueboards / DIYelectricskateboard. its the 12mm version, which is wide enough to actually work with a 15mm belt (got only about 1mm thats not gripping into any teeth). previously with calibers I was using the enertion mount with a 265mm belt!

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by torqueboards » Sep 04 2016 12:07pm

Wow great build :) One of the best loaded board builds ever :mrgreen:
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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Oct 17 2016 2:59pm

did my winter maintenance - wanted a more natural look, so I removed the black vicious griptape. under it is my wounded vanguard with the wire channels and 1 layer of GFK with 2 additional patches of GFK covering the wire channel wounds.
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I bought a few 0.6mm thick wood veneers - typically these cost about 7eur per piece, so its actually very cheap!
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chose bamboo to fit the rest of the bamboo vanguard, epoxied it ontop of the old vanguard in my vacuum bag, then added a thin film of epoxy to weather proof it:
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adding transparent vicious grip tape, together with my new black trampa wheels. its a pretty gorgeous combo, this white/natural bamboo with red ronins and black wheels. I was very happy with the results. :)
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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by okp » Oct 17 2016 4:15pm

great job mate. you added the bamboo wood veneer at the top of the board right? the bamboo looks really beautiful. I think the vicious does not make justice to the bamboo as it is "blurry". I think what could have also been great is to do it LHB way by using crushed glasses and put that on a thin epoxy resin layer. You would have had a crystal clear bamboo on the top sheet.

what are you gonna do now with the vanguard ?!

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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Oct 18 2016 1:06am

yea, added it ontop to cover wire channels! kinda suprising because that thinn veneer already made the board noticably stiffer. :o maybe because I used epoxy?

lhb style grip is too much of a hassle for me and tbh, i like the "white blurr" effect of the vicious. :)

still riding the board when its dry - its by far my favourite. for the wet i use my unikboard clone, since the enclosure is waterproof and the board is wide anough to cover the wheels completely = splash protection!

i made my own vanguard last night without a bottlenose, so that might become my new rain board (I miss the flex, spud/unikboard = riding with foots rested on trucks = nothing for my knees).

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by Poweralti » Oct 18 2016 2:33pm

Excelent


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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by okp » Oct 19 2016 3:31pm

beautiful.

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by Rikobonito » Oct 19 2016 5:23pm

Shape is crazy !!!
yes ;) told you my think about flex and epoxy ... not that good. But your deck is really simply beautifull :P ENJOY !!!
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Oct 20 2016 3:20am

Rikobonito wrote:Shape is crazy !!!yes told you my think about flex and epoxy ... not that good. But your deck is really simply beautifull ENJOY !!!
hmm, so far I dont find epoxy/bamboo/gfk to be a bad combination. my diy board is very flexy, but most likely because I used only 4 bamboo layer. tonight I added another layer and will check out that Flex tonight. flex seems mostly determined by board thickness and from what I read in silverfish Forums, bamboo & fiberglas is the perfect combo for flexy, springy energy returns. what other resin/glue would you use for the combination of wood and gfk if not the very flexible epoxy?

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Oct 22 2016 9:12am

flex is really great now with 5 layers bamboo and 4 intermediate GFK layers (plus the extra UD carbon stripes around the middle region and as 45° tilted crosses for edge to truck force transfer. basically its just a little bit too flex - just enough so that it will be spot on after I wrapped it in a finaly GFK layer.


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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by chrsitian » Oct 22 2016 12:47pm

Hey whitepony!

I'm relatively new to this community but I went from 0 to 100 with regards of interest and have been reading everything I can on DIY eBoards! However this vanguard build of yours is what has really inspire me above all to immerse myself into doing a build myself :D . I'm a university computer science student so i don't really have an electrical background at all but it's really fun learning how it all works. I've notice you've had multiple iterations of wheels on this build as well as the ratio of gearing/pulley system, I'm wandering what has been your favourite for the two, with what motor ?? If it's okay with you id like to base my build off of yours and do my best to replicate your art work! (Because i'd much rather spend a little less than i would for a boosted board while building it myself and have it performing better and looking better.....hopefully :wink: ). Thanks for sharing your work a giving feedback, its much appreciated!

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whitepony   10 kW

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Oct 22 2016 1:57pm

hey man, yea, go ahead, Im really really happy with all the vanguards details and can really just recommend everything.

on topic of the wheels/gearing/motor: my favourite wheels are still the abec 90mm 75A (not available anymore, guess the 78A is pretty much the same though, dont think youll feel much of a difference). no other wheel rides so smooth and they break loose in a super controlled way. its like they break and you have so much time to catch them again, really love that.

the trampa stickies feel very hard for 76A duro, but its also only a 83mm wheel. they nearly feel harder than the 80mm 80A kegels tbh, so overall Im not the biggest fan of them - only real advantage is: they look super hot in combination with the red trucks and white/wooden board. they are great on smooth roads, not so much on sidewalks or rough roads where they really just feel very hard.

weird enough, the stickies are the grippiest of the 3 wheels from my limited testing. maybe Im still breaking them in ... fresh kegels are also incredibly grippy!

kegels, well, compared to the abecs, they are also just hard and after they are broken in, they dont have a lot of grip on shitty roads. they look nice though .. :)


for gearing I gotta say: 16/36T with 168KV SK3 6374 motor in vesc FOC mode (with 10S battery) was probably my favourite setup. the alien drive HEV 6355 or enertion 6355 rspecc motor with 190K and 15/36T gearing is a close second, but noticeably weaker setup. the SK6374 is a beast imo, especially for the price! :)

if you have other questions, let me know!

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by chrsitian » Oct 22 2016 4:01pm

Wow so much help thanks this is great! Now something i've been thinking about is making it a dual motor setup to get more torque (...if that's how it works ?) this is because where i live is rather hilly with some steep gradients. However with this comes the complication of motor length with regard to your trucks. Whats the length of your trucks ? Maybe I don't even need a dual motor with the 168KV SK3 6374 providing a good amount of torque already. what are your thoughts doing a dual motor setup ? Budget isn't to much of an issue.

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by whitepony » Oct 23 2016 1:56am

with a dual setup, 2x 6355 is already pretty overkill. i started with dual and realized I dont need it around where I live. its just extra noise, extra weight, extra space for one more ESC, and it somehow consumes more energy than a single motor setup. last time I tried my range felt reduced by 20-30% compared to a single setup (same battery, comparable speed).

for a dual setup, 2x 9mm belts is ok and 2x 6355 motors is the gold standard I guess. with a dual, you could also go with 50mm motors if you wanted.

whether you need duals or not really depends on your weight and on how hilly your area is and what top speed you are aiming at. you can change the torque obviously with appropriate gearing. my gearing always aims at around 45kph+!

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by chrsitian » Oct 24 2016 7:02am

Okay well that really helps thanks! where I live the range isn't really and issue but more so the torque so ill probably end up tweaking the torque, because i don't really have the desire to go 45kph downtown with cars everywhere for my first eBoard :shock: . With that said though i think ill still just go with the single 168kv just to make things simpler for my first build, then possible tinker with dual as i become more experienced.

By the way I thought what your cast ronin truck adapter was genius! using as a heat-sink with the aluminum powder was an innovative way of thinking! How is it working, the motor staying cool ?

This is a question directed toward really anyone of reading this, but you guys know anywhere (Besides DIY) you can get any metal type of motor adapter ? AlienPowerSystems is completely sold out.

And my last big question for you whitepony is to do with the battery pack. I'm assuming you have a battery spot welder, because I'm trying to figure out if the only way I can make my 10S4P is by buying a 200$ battery spot welders from Asia. If i need to then i will by one but I'm hoping there's another way i can put the battery pack together, thoughts ?

Thanks :)

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Re: Loaded Vanguard Carbon Cast Ronin Single VESC 10S4P

Post by Rikobonito » Oct 24 2016 12:52pm

Your custom deck flex looks crazy :P ! really beautifull shape.
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
... I wish also an e-MTBike soon !! :v: Thanks DIY Power community :wink:

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