Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional

Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Green Machine » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:11 am

awesome work :)
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby north » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:26 am

Very very nice!
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:55 am

Thanks everyone! I have made a flickr album for higher res images: https://flic.kr/s/aHskM3NW9d
The folding stem is from a folding bike - £30 from eBay (china obviously) its saved a load of work in the making but actually isn't stiff enough. I'll have to come up up with a better solution.

I'm going to make a nice lower cover much in the same way the e-skateboard guys tend to do.

All exciting stuff!
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:20 pm

Ive been out for the first proper test ride and ESC settings tinkering, I'm pretty happy with the results!



I've added some more images to flickr too:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskM3NW9d

My observations about the project so far:

- The throttle curve really needs attention, it only became usable when limiting the power to 75% in the ESC (12S connected)
- The gear ratio (11t:56t or 5:1) might be a bit too low, It might need 4:1, this is TBC the throttle issue. (its way to ready to wheelie!)
- The geometry is a bit awkward; the handle bars need to be move forward and I need to have them higher (I could have adjusted that)
- IT NEEDS BRAKES!

About the throttle problem, I'm hoping someone can help me.

My throttle set up is this:
Throttle: http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/electr ... ll-effect/
PWM Chip: http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/rc-ev- ... face-1-4v/

I have noticed that 100% of the power is applied at about 50% of the available thumb throttle travel. I would like to know how to make the physical movement of the throttle equal a 1:1 application of power?

I'd love to sort that out then I believe that riding 12S would be fine.
Last edited by Keith_hill on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:18 pm

Did some speed runs last night, I managed 24.1 mph and it is designed for 25 mph so I'm pretty pleased it worked!!


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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Ianhill » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:17 pm

I never noticed the video good work 25mph needs brakes :roll: the scooter is a very nice first build its a nice build full stop, but I say it needs a battery's enclosure protect from road salts, moisture etc. The throttle on 100% is a bit of a challenge by the looks of it, I never tried the rc esc on scooters because my rc cars used to be quite twitchy on the throttle and so many settings, My scooter on 120% don't like to pull off at 2-3mph it can lunge to 5mph or so but If I'm already in motion I can slow right down to crawling point but it won't start up as smooth around that range unless I go to medium or slow speed settings, so not even the sensored ESC are immune to lunging at slow speeds when set to max speed but it don't really bother me I stay around 15-20mph normally so I'm running in an a fairly efficient rpm a watthour meter makes the world off difference when u can see what u consume climbing at certain speeds etc.
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:19 pm

Yes, I've got a go-ped front calliper brake coming from the US. I'll add it to the front wheel so at leat I have some control!
Ive been using it every day going to and from the carpark at work, it's about 1km from where I park to the office and it's pretty comfy to ride. however it does need to be a bit longer - and needs weatherproofing! I'm on borrowed time at the moment I think. I'm putting a carbon 'under-belly' to protect all the bits and bobs and also mud guards because i'm getting a bit mucky on what is normally a clean way to the office!

Once I have the scooter rolling, it's actually pretty controllable - i thought it would be worse than it is. however that throttle problem is a real pain. Bruno at Alien power systems has agreed to send me some replacement throttle interface units to try - so let's see what happens. If it doesn't work then I'll have a go at an Arduino solution.

I'll get a video of the top speed uploaded soon!

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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby cam777 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:09 pm

"I have noticed that 100% of the power is applied at about 50% of the available thumb throttle travel. I would like to know how to make the physical movement of the throttle equal a 1:1 application of power?"

For my electric longboard transmitter I had the same problem. The solution to solder a 10k ohm resistor in parallel with the potentiometer to get the desired throttle range.
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby MrDude_1 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:24 am

cam777 wrote:"I have noticed that 100% of the power is applied at about 50% of the available thumb throttle travel. I would like to know how to make the physical movement of the throttle equal a 1:1 application of power?"

For my electric longboard transmitter I had the same problem. The solution to solder a 10k ohm resistor in parallel with the potentiometer to get the desired throttle range.

this works, but a trimmer pot works even better, so you can ensure you do get full WOT when requested.
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:40 pm

MrDude_1 wrote:
cam777 wrote:"I have noticed that 100% of the power is applied at about 50% of the available thumb throttle travel. I would like to know how to make the physical movement of the throttle equal a 1:1 application of power?"

For my electric longboard transmitter I had the same problem. The solution to solder a 10k ohm resistor in parallel with the potentiometer to get the desired throttle range.

this works, but a trimmer pot works even better, so you can ensure you do get full WOT when requested.

cam777 wrote:"I have noticed that 100% of the power is applied at about 50% of the available thumb throttle travel. I would like to know how to make the physical movement of the throttle equal a 1:1 application of power?"

For my electric longboard transmitter I had the same problem. The solution to solder a 10k ohm resistor in parallel with the potentiometer to get the desired throttle range.


I'm pretty sure I'm getting 100% power at the motor (24mph when designed for 25mph) but at 50% of the thumb travel on the throttle. When I tested the throttle it is outputting 1-4v on the signal line evenly through the full range of travel. It's as though the Throttle interface chip is deciding to only use 1-2v as the total range of PWM output. Alien Power Systems said they'll send me some new interface chips to play with - so we'll see.

Did you have the same throttle interface chip I have? when you had the problem?
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:36 pm

I have fixed my throttle interface problem by making an Arduino interface. It's been a good learning project and definitely something I'll be using with a VESC in the future.
Anyway, I wanted to post a video of the scooter at top speed. Thanks to the interface it is now completely rideable.

It turned out that the interface chip I had bought from APS was actually outputting 180deg servo angle (2ms PWM pulse) and the ESC is expecting 135deg servo angle. that was the reason for the totally dead throttle at approx 50%. Also, the chip had really choppy output making for very rough progression.


Last edited by Keith_hill on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Suggs » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:20 pm

Looking brilliant Keith :D
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby beetbocks » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:53 am

MrDude_1 wrote:while the work you have done looks amazing... I think you are going to be disappointed in the scooter.
It will not be so quick that its scary.. it will actually be slower than a goped with the torkinator aftermarket motor.

It will move, but it will accelerate like an electric skateboard. Fun, but not scary fast. if thats your goal than its an excellent job... but if you want it to be scary quick like you claimed... you're going to need more power... like a 80mm motor, and an ebike controller.



i totally disagree Mr Dude... I have built many e-scoot form scratch..and even on 8s with a 5065 motor its still really powerfull ..and puts a smile on your face..

my big scoot runs 12s and a 6374 170kv motor on 9" wheels..and that is very fast indeed ..it wheelies on command and the average person cannot actually ride it the first time



keep up the good work..
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby beetbocks » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:22 am

your scoot looks very similar in design to the Goped Knowped (same wheels - i know) ..which looks a nice simple yet strong construction .. looks very rugged!!
for £279 - you can get a version with 2x brakes ..maybe perfect for a conversion ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GOPED-ADULT-PUSH-SCOOTER-THE-URBAN-KNOW-PED-STAGE-4-/272449148289?hash=item3f6f3c1581:g:0SUAAOxyEoFSU8Nl
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Rikobonito » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:55 pm

Sorry Keith ... :oops: I will continue a little bit Off topic but .... cause beetblocks .. :roll: .. :lol: .. I want to made a AT scooter (seens long time mow) and now I saw your poste and your wish liste ... I saw mine :D , but your conception and realisation is way too perfect for me :P your motor mount wheel rear is a masterpiece !!!

beetbocks wrote:your scoot looks very similar in design to the Goped Knowped (same wheels - i know) ..which looks a nice simple yet strong construction .. looks very rugged!
for £279 - you can get a version with 2x brakes ..

1th I was looking to make my frame myself like you, but ... I have no knowledge and practice in this field so looking to customise a Razor (or similar dirt "push" scooter in 6,8 or 9" wheels if possible)
But I also need some structure modification (motor mount, space for drive système ...). And then Keith made this new version of amazing DIY scooter !.. Make me think again :mrgreen:

And yes this will be a perfect compromise, half way between the full DIY and the customization of scooter in e-scooter. Thanks for the link Beetbocks :wink:
I think I will open a topic for my maybe futur one ...

So still throttle travel problem ?.. sorry doesn't know this système (I'm whith GT2B remote system...)..
Hope you will fix it soon, and hurry to see your carbon cover ;)

PS : your flickr is sooooo cool !!! thanks once again !
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:38 pm

Yeah, it is properly fast acceleration. I'm very pleased with the power of such a small motor.
Thanks for all of the positive feedback about the build. I need to finish it off by enclosing the lower portion (hopefully as neat as Beetbock's creations!) then I'll look at making another.
I have actually had quite a few people PM me requesting that I make my frame design available as a platform to work from for builders. but I guess that the Knowped is probable a cheaper and more complete starting point. I wonder if people would be interesting in buying an aluminium frame as a starting point?

I have totally fixed the throttle problem now and actually it would be a neat addition to any scooter or EV project using an RC ESC expecting PWM input. It allows for any hall effect throttle to be used and auto learns the throttle range. I've added adjustable speed control also so you can ride slowly if you want but with full throttle range for control.

I'm going to start another thread soon on the eBike area, I'm building a Schwinn Stingray chopper bike with a revolt 100R motor (2-5kw) I can't wait!!

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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Rikobonito » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:53 am

Thanks for your return !
I'm sure that more than one would be delighted to benefit from your frame !!! (me want to DIMyself :D ... with your inspiration haha)
I will need a throttle like that maybe ... I will go with GT2B but if I could just have a simple wire from the esc its better.
But it can be very long? 1 meter ? :roll:

One more question, How do you do your gallows/leadership steering ? (sorry don't know the english word)
It is just a simple tube, the most adjusted possible to the steering , and it's the headset who make the work (sorry try to understand the process)

I start my e-Dirt Scoot :P

Good ride !
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:21 pm

Hi!

In my opinion it is far better to go with a wired throttle as you don't need the extra receiver and batteries etc... yes, the cable can be 1 meter but it doesn't matter.
I have used a thumb throttle and the cable was like 1.5m long so it's been cut down a little bit.

The folding stem is from a 20" wheel folding bike from eBay (it came from China in the ned) something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOLDING-BIKE- ... Sw5cNYOGSW

The forks are machined and simply use a mountain bike 1 1/8" headset.

I got a standard set of mounting bike forks and cut off the steerer tube and then heat-shrink fitted it into the forks, then I assembled it all together just like a mountain bike.

I hope this helps??
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Rikobonito » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:33 pm

It's really cool, thank you for your return!
Thank you very much for all the info (and the link) ;) !!

A colleague of the French forum E-SK8.FR offered me all a bunch of ancient test and proto in all kind !!! He assures serious :mrgreen:

You help really well with this info about the mountain bike 1 1/8" headset :!:

And Beetbock get a motor mount for me, all rolls :D

Many thanks, good continuation.
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Re: Turnigy Aerodrive Scooter (she'll be quick I hope)

Postby Keith_hill » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:03 pm

I look forward to seeing your build!
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