Fliess | 65kmh+

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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fliess
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Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by fliess » Tue May 02, 2017 4:37 pm

Let me introduce Fliess (Fließ auf Deutsch).
It can do what it was made for - riding fast, hard and long.

Below is a short story in pictures of creating Fliess1 and then evolution to Fliess2. The order is more or less chronological, so the actual result is at the very bottom. Fliess3 doesn't necessarily have 3 motors.

got a really good motor with crappy bearings though
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trying to fit different size aluminium enclosures and still believing that it was a brilliant idea to do so :?
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41x accus and each perfectly 3.53V
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at the end very decent remote/receiver with minimum failures (of course, only after making sure that soldering is ok and antenna is properly placed)
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flex bamboo deck makes it more difficult to come up with a good enclosure, but it's worth it
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I compare everything with my Evolve, since with it I learned how things should and, even more important, should not be
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another batch of things came meanwhile from HobbyKing
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very nice genuine Amass connectors
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go for Turnigy silicone wires if you want a good ones
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I did even believe that suspended aluminium enclosure makes sense and ordered custom springs
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of course, I wanted to try both - chained and belted
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minor but still important things
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finally VESC from Enertion arrived. I didn't even have to finish soldering
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1st ride without motor. Only accus to see how aluminium enclose works on flex :mrgreen:
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it's bent after few jumps, but generally was better than expected
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future accus welding station
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only ~300km of relatively easy ride :( Parts have been replaced for free by Evolve, but the lesson is learnt - I need a self-made beast
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quickly made a spare part on the same evening to still be able to commute at work on the next morning
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the most dangerous cutting I ever had :shock: Only by luck, the cut part ended up in a wall, 10cm from the window
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looked very reliable, but as learnt later with its significant drawbacks
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first version of welding station
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I was always unhappy about too many wires even on a single setup
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motor was finally spinning!
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and 43kmh seemed so much! :)
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I rode it in days and nights!
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I was sure I would never switch to belts
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some other stuff comes meanwhile
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even useless wattmeter haha
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now I can ride together with my wife and learn a left side
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sure I needed to check if windings are accurate and be ready to replace bearings
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not that easy to do without proper tools, but I was happy about result
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got an epoxy to protect the motor windings and make it a bit quieter (doesn't really help)
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good new bearings
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playing with NaOH
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CHAPTER 2

crazy little monsters if used properly
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do I really need so much?
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dreaming about dual experience :)
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getting rid of "too many wires"
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welder v2 - 35V + thyristor
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some evenings have been spent on building tools, rather than board itself
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having fun with KiCad and prototyping
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only god knows, why I still believed in aluminium...
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eyes breaking parts
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even proper tape was better than aluminium
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time to understand motors theory and lowering KV afterwards
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only 10gr less than originally - could have been worse as a first experience
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still fighting against FOC instability
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one more tool on a working table
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finally the best combination found. Time to repeat success on 2nd motor
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honestly, I didn't even think that I would need to touch the motors as well...
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randomly bought ABS turned out to be moldable many times without loosing its properties
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it seemed to be a brilliant idea at the beginning. What could be better to test FOC on critical loads without risking your life? Luckily I noticed a smell and smoke from the Evolve motor before it fried
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still trying to perfectly reflect the shape of a deck
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after Fliess1 I understood that my setup is at least 10s5p
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could not wait to try dual
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can only recommend pcbway.com
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not the best shape ever, but serves a purpose. Not the best plastic neither, but good draft material before Kydex or so
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I would get crazy soldering it all, if I didn't have some experience before on even smaller things
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I hope I am not the only one thinking that soldering chips is an easiest part :P
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does anyone know in Frankfurt a hill where I can overheat mosfets? Maybe I just need to take some more weight...
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no more wires! Hurray! Exactly what I wanted
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never thought that stickers could make such a difference :shock: I'm going to leave it as is. I don't event need that black boring Kydex anymore 8)
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less than 1kg of difference in weight but dual, twice a range, almost twice a speed. Anyone wants to buy my Evolve? :wink:
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ahh! What I did?! I cut the wrong wires on perfectly working motors!
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now protected
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slightly lifting up
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of course, the previous idea about individual motor connectors was shit, especially for performance board, where everything must be reliable and well protected
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I don't have any failures for quite a while, but still it is useful sometimes to have a quick access to settings
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still looking for 70kmh+ volunteers. I am kidding of course. Everybody wants to live
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The new drop down deck arrived already! Time to build Fliess3 and master sliding!

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spinningmagnets
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by spinningmagnets » Tue May 02, 2017 6:10 pm

Nice to provide so many pics! I like how the stator is fully potted. Well done!

chuttney1
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by chuttney1 » Wed May 03, 2017 1:52 pm

I like what you did with VESC controller. What are your comments on switching from a 7-pin MOSFET to the 3-pin MOSFET, any pros and cons with the design decision you made over two VESC on one PCB? I can understand that your orientation of the MOSFET allows for better cooling.

Just so you know, VESC 6.0 will solve the FOC and the 8302 DRV errors if you encountered one. I do not know if you have been following project.Currently, in testing from the posts, I have read. Are you going to make a dual VESC 6.0 on one PCB?

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fliess
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by fliess » Wed May 03, 2017 2:54 pm

Hey chuttney1. Thanks for the good questions :)

As I mentioned, somehow I wanted all-in-one without many wires, connectors and other inconvenient stuff. At the end, it's more accurate and needs less space. The drawback of such a design is obvious though - if something really burns and PCB is frocked up, then everything have to be re-soldered. And now I recall these crazy winter evenings/nights when I went again and again outside for testing to make sure that nothing will be fried later. Once there is an error or something fails (even once per 100 times), you immediately stop trusting the board and there is no fun to ride it anymore.

I've heard about DRV errors :wink: There are not so many fried on my count though, maybe 5-6 only. Moreover, I clearly knew a scenario how to kill them, which made a task even more interesting :twisted:
In regards to VESC 6.0, it really looks amazing. Benjamin is the best. I just don't need more than 70-80A in FOC per motor, so there is no sense in dual VESC 6.0 for me. Currently I am riding in 70A and thinking about decreasing to maybe 60A, because there is no need in such a power, especially on small (15-16 teeth) pulley. Over 60kmh, of course, the more current the better. Also all terrain setups might need 80A+ per motor. Didn't try yet, but it's on the list. I wish to test my setup on 80A+, if there are any failures, but then I need to come up with a good testing bench (like I did with connecting to Evolve and then regret to almost fry it) and most probably using different motors with bigger stators to avoid saturation.

jph
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by jph » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:04 am

Hi, really nice build and informative description !
I was wondering where did you buy the copper plates and rod for the welding station ?

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cal3thousand
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by cal3thousand » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:55 am

Great job on the quality board and quality thread! We need more like this on ES. :D

I am definitely subscribing and bookmarking for the day I decide to embark on my journey. 70km/h on an eskate must be a harrowing experience :shock:
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.

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fliess
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by fliess » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Hello guys! It seems I haven't got any notifications on my email and that's why I just missed the questions posted here :cry:
Anyway, if anybody still opens this thread, then it's maybe also worth to check my latest progress on Fliess.

Fliess3:
http://www.electric-skateboard.builders ... rive/32279

Fliess3FL:
https://www.electric-skateboard.builder ... lift/33271

Sorry again guys for ignored comments.

Regards,
Fliess :-)

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fliess
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by fliess » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:32 pm

Looks like 50kmh is really fast if the camera is very close to the road :D
https://youtu.be/9TUSy5aq1aM

north
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Re: Fliess | 65kmh+

Post by north » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:40 am

Amazing build. Both functional and cool

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