first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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ElectricGod   10 MW

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 30 2018 7:43pm

drc wrote:
Jan 30 2018 4:44pm
So the information is coming in thick and fast ! so i need time to digest everything . so my photo bucket is fixed for now so i will use this to post progress so watch this space. This is going to be a slow build as i want to tackle each part in bite size pieces .

in answer to some of the questions : i have replaced the deck and fitted a solid plywood deck and grip taped this. this was done on day one of ownership. the last thing i want is to slip of in a corner due to a slippy surface. i have also taken the advice an orderd a thumb throttle as being planted on the scooter will give me full control. I have also picked up a 3 position handle bar switch for toggling the different settings ( jogging speed, traffic speed , and all out hell speed) .

The controller is being planed and developed by EG as this is the brains of the operation and needs to right!
so this is something i am going to read up on for the next .

i plan to research and source all the part after this and lay them out and build it all in one go. Well that is the plan .
Replacing the deck was the first thing I did too. The plastic one was aweful and dangerous.

While you are messing with the deck seal up the battery box so dirt and water can't get in anywhere. Weather stripping is great for this purpose. It's sticky on one side and not on the other. Once you have it supposedly sealed up, spray the scooter down with water and see where the water is getting in. I bet you missed something. It took me 3 tries to get mine to be essentially weather proof. You will never be able to immerse the scooter, but riding in driving rain or through a deep puddle shouldn't be a problem.
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drc   10 mW

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Feb 02 2018 9:49am

Good day to you all , so I have had a bit of time today to fiddle about with my sons EVs and my scooter. For giggles here is our EV fleet lol.

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The car has a few areas modified, it runs different 550 motors and a 24v system that is adjustable plus it is also radio controlled for safety. it spins the wheels and runs to about 12mph at full tilt, way to fast for a toddle but is now future proof. The trike is now 12v with a 550 motor and again is adjustable. my son loves them.

So the scooter. First job is to make weather proof and cope with mud and water ingress. So the holes at the base have been tapped up with gaffer tape , the gaps and holes in the chassis and have been silicone up . The deck has been lifted with a few washers to level it off then weather strip has been added to both sides as can be seen in the picture . the result is a very good seal with no major water ingress from the hose pipe. So that is that job done .

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I thought I would also add picture of the before I start doing anything else for my refernce as most of the scooter is stock. I was shocked how poor the wiring was it is a joke! This will be replaced along the way.

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So Eletricgod has very kindly decided to be my mentor on this build and has offered to support my journey with his vast knowledge and skills . The bare bones of the build are as follows: it will be running a Alien power c80100 80kv motor with support ( purchased) , a 12f “modified and enhanced “ controller with telemetry , 74v lipo set up , running a 219 chain . There will be many little things that get changed and upgraded over the build but I will add these as they happen. All in all this will be a fun scooter when its done and should provide years of enjoyment. The left over motor controller and batteries will go into a kart or scooter build later down the line.

I’m going to accrue the parts over the next few months as there is no rush to get it done (I am poor and have very little money) . The scooter works as it is and does a basic job of moving my bulk around .

i will keep the thread updated i am off for a scoot as i have the day off.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Feb 12 2018 11:23am

So , I have been picking up lots of little bits from China over the last few weeks such as wires, terminal blocks ,lights, switches ,grips ,bolts, tape ETC but many are yet to arrive due to new year holidays and delivery timescales( photos and info will follow). So the plan is to go with a 20s 20Ah pack made from 5 multi-star 4s packs these should fit in the bay nicely and still give me a little room for wires and other ancillaries. Charger of choice will be something like this:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev ... arger.html

set up to run 82V so this should give me around 9A of current. I’m continuing to get out on the scooter despite the bitter cold weather we are having here in the UK and very much enjoying the experience. this scooter is now officially slow by my standards granted when it gets to 25 MPH it gets a little more interesting but overall the initial thrill has settled into a complacency . I’m sure this will change over the next few months. That reminds me I need a decent skater helmet.
There really is not very much I can update on at this time but I’m continuing to learn and read on most things Scooter and EV. (baby steps) .
EG your emails of knowledge and information have all been organised now so I can reference this more effectively. You are the ORICAL.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Feb 13 2018 5:42pm

I had a couple of hours tonight to tinker so I took myself off to the garage to see what I could do. So after I decided to fit a smaller rear gear (54 down to 44) to the scooter. So after removing the wheel and a couple of links in the chain I swapped out the rear sprocket and also fitted the original dirt tyre as I mostly take it down muddy tracks at the moment.
Whilst I was at it I removed the pinion gear (10 up to 11) and fitted the stock one giving me 4:1 ( as apose to 5.1:1) . Well I put it all back together and with a full charge I took it out and knowing I would loose acceleration and boy I was shocked this thing was now drawing all the power the SLA 48v had to offer the stock controller and it was slow. It took a long run along a 200m stretch of road to just get up to 22 mph. Where as normally it could hit the top speed (26/27mph) in less than half that . So after putting it away I will be putting back the 54 and 10 back on soon , as this was no fun and won't do the stock battery any good .

Goodnews I have ordered the 219 chain and lube this evening . More parts on the way yippy.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » May 14 2018 3:36pm

I have now moved to lipo's and i'm running 3x 4s multi-star 16000mah wired in series. This has made a great improvement as there is very little sag and saves a good amount of weight. The scooter is much easier to ride now and is much more manoeuvrable , my advice is ditch the SLAs for lipos . At £45 per pack you cant go wrong!! i am now going to be running my peak voltage at 82 so this should be interesting in a little scooter.

Starting to get excited, as the the modified parts will hopefully be here in the next couple of months! i just have to finish paying for them lol.
Thank you EG for your wise and supportive ways ! you are 1 in a million my friend.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by ElectricGod » Jul 05 2018 12:11pm

I think I've talked about this scooter somewhere before. Hows it going? New parts arriving on the 9th! More to follow soon after.
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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Jul 30 2018 3:57pm

So, a few little things to add to the scooter build:

The first is I have added a MTB 160mm disc and caliper mounting addapter to the front end and after some working out i have managed to fit the disc to the hub. The result is a solid front brake that when pulled alone has no problem bottoming the front suspension out and wants to push me over the bars. The bad part is that in my testing i ran it to full speed and braked hard continuously about 10 times cooking the disc and giving it a very slight warp. But non the less both the brakes work very well and will be reliable for when i add more power.

Second i have tested the 12s 16000mah packs on the standard controller and was amazed at how much range they give over the SLA factory units. honestly if there is one thing you do to your scooter is replace the SLA's with lipo packs! after a hard run of 9.4 miles with my 20 stone of lard at the helm i only saw just under a 5 volt drop over the packs! this was me giving it full speed up many steep hills. plus there was power all the time with no noticeable drop off!


next up i have rewired the handle bars to how i want them for when i get the rest of my parts.

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As can be seen i have directional turn signals at the bar ends, new grips, a thumb throttle with voltage output and a 6 button switch cluster set up which will do everything i need ( and also with some spare switches for future upgrades) the controller will be a EG modified power velocity unit ( EG please feel free to add the specs) which will be fully controllable with my phone. along side this there will be a digital "EG" BMS keeping the batteries in check and also the system will be wired up to run 12V for everything but the motor.

Also after a search i found a light green die spring that i have swapped out for the hard stock spring and with a little pre-tension the front suspension now works really well and is much softer that the stock spring. I did have to grind a couple of mm from the bottom to help it clear the frame but well worth the few quid and soaks up bumps like it should. link...........https://www.berger-tools.co.uk/Vl__Ligh ... ight_Load/

so i have a shelf full of bits that are ready for the scooter along with a custom "EG" battery charger.
i have also found this link to be most helpful along my path viewtopic.php?f=35&t=94527

EG if you want to add some tech specs of the parts used please feel free as you have the knowledge around this build.

More to follow soon

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by Lurzarac » Aug 23 2018 11:17pm

Hi drc...hows it going on your upgrading scooter project? Please do update us all. I am as well just started to upgrade my scooter. The only setback is i have no experience in any technical skills required to do so. My plan was to purchase the exact same brand of controller/bldc motor but with higher speed/ability.

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ElectricGod   10 MW

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 28 2018 4:55pm

You are about to have lots more parts to put on this thing.

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Shaft to sprocket adapter. Last part!!! Drill it and the shaft for cross bars and it's done.

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Last edited by ElectricGod on Sep 28 2018 6:14pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 28 2018 6:03pm

I did most of this some time ago for his project...which he has been patiently waiting forever for me to finish up and ship to him. Moving in the middle of getting his stuff done...not once, but twice...really slowed me down a LOT. I'm finally down to getting the motor shaft adapter done tonight, doing one more bench test and then he will soon have everything.

Some of these images are "in progress". Heat shrink gets applied to all exposed connections.

Inards of the upgraded controller. Upgraded power and phase wires, stronger shunts, upgraded power and phase traces, better mosfets, reinforced heat sinking, PV telemetry module and Internal temp sensor with connections for an external sensor.

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Everybody needs terminal blocks for terminating stuff. These are made from the terminal blocks that don't drive a screw into the wire or use those crappy flap type clamps. They clamp the wires squarely inside a tiny metal box that the screws draw up tight around the wires. No wire ever touches a screw. He got the 24 pin block. I made the 32 pin one for me at the same time. :)

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Modded thumb throttle. I replaced the Chinese hall, added a 100v meter and rewired everything inside.

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IP68 cable for enable, throttle and 3 speed from the motor controller. The devil is in the details! The heat shrink isolates the enable and ground wires from each other...just in case something were to happen.

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7 switch cluster with better switches, paralleled contacts and dual 3 position rocker switches. Glued down so the wires can't move or get pinched.

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Inline precharger. Connect everything together except those 2 center connections and the system precharges. Make up this one connection and you are ready to roll.

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Upgraded 20S smart BMS with balance cable set up for his LIPO packs...plug and play ready.

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KART to 3 bolt wheel adapter.

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5.5mm bullets and IP68 connector for the motor halls. Extra heat shrink on the phase wires where they pass through the motor base.

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I started with this motor from Alien Power. The shaft got cut to meet his purposes. The shielded bearings were replaced with sealed ones. The shaft got sealed ceramic hybrids and the skirt got a sealed steel bearing. I also painted the stator with electrical paint to keep out water. The shaft to bell union got reinforced significantly so it can hold the 4 kw ++ this motor can turn into torque. The shaft to bell union started with 2 4mm set screws on flats. Now it has 4 5mm set screws trapped in shallow holes on the shaft end and 2 more on the shaft flats. That will hold just fine! The output end of the shaft gets drilled for capturing the shaft to sprocket adapter together. Lots of time went into the motor! The shaft and adapter are very hard steel. Typical HSS drills wont cut it. I have carbide drills just for this sort of thing.

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Last edited by ElectricGod on Sep 28 2018 6:49pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 28 2018 6:33pm

The first box I sent him included the 7 switch cluster, thumb throttle, 82 volt charger, terminal blocks and a few other things.

A freebie I threw in the first box since he is running on 12S LIPO right now. I have 4 of these 12S BMS and one was already set up for 4S LIPO packs with 5.5mm bullets. I won't be using it again so it became a gift.

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I made this 82v charger out of 4 170w Lenovo PSU's. It's good to 10 amps and has a watt meter on it. I made it some time ago for my own uses and then it sat collecting dust so I sold it to to Daniel. It served me well as a silent charger I could use at work.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by ElectricGod » Sep 28 2018 10:48pm

The shaft adapter and shaft is drilled. I used blue locktite to secure the adapter temporarily. Well it's holding quite well and I can't pull it off now. I need a small gear puller to extract it from the shaft. Also, I needed carbide drills to make these holes. I looked at what I had that was close to 4 or 5mm and 5/32 was it. The piece of metal in the second picture that traps the shaft to the adapter is a 5/32 drill shaft. I assumed I had several of a size that would work and discovered there was only one. And that shaft was too short to make 2 lengths. Oh well...buy more tomorrow. I'll be getting a small puller at the same time.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Oct 14 2018 1:23pm

Thank you EG for all your hard work, guidance and expertise. I have learnt a fair bit speaking with EG and i am very thankful for the efforts you have gone to for me. Now the kit is in the mail i plan on doing the build up in a few weeks and will post up the build/end results. If anyone is interested, here is a you tube link to EG's you tube channel that has lots of guides and good advice on all things EV!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCceKlh ... EI-szNMqWw

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Oct 26 2018 6:46am

So the package of goodies is going to be here this Saturday and i have to tell the world that i'm excited! I'm looking forward to planning and documenting my build. Lots of stuff to think about and work out but it will give me a couple of months of fun and enjoyment. Then time to test it all out.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by matsh » Oct 29 2018 3:35am

Hi, have you tried with another controller with the stock brushless motor ?i ahve same type scooter 48v 1600w.
replaced batteri pack, and installed a kelly controller keb modell, having trouble finding the correct hall phase wiring. i have 1 combionation that works, but with no load wheel in the air it pulls 1000w at full speed and i have to slow wheel speed vs the stok controller, if i put load on it its jerky as hell.
all other phase hall combination are either dead stuck motor or jerky as hell.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Oct 30 2018 7:06am

SO the package has arrived !!!! whoop whoop. i am now taking full stock of the build and working out how it will all cram inside the box.

first job is to work out where to mount the controller: so i have planed to mount the controller to a aluminum bar (heat sinks screwed to this) then mount the controller in the box using thermal paste and sanding the inside of the box where it will mount. This will hopefully help keep it cool under use.

the first thing i will be doing is working out the wiring and making sure i spend a lot of time doing this right! following this i will be bench testing the controller motor and BMS so that i can under stand how it all works.

Once that done i will be stripping the scooter back on the bench removing the old controller and motor so i can start the wiring and working out the mounting of the motor. As there will be lots of wires in the bay i want to make sure this is done right ! i plan to do all this with in the next week. i will try and punt up some photos but i am having trouble with it all at the moment.

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Re: first post. Looking for some scooter upgrade guidance

Post by drc » Nov 13 2018 10:39am

So I have had a busy few days with all the items and planned my approach with the build of this scooter. I started with the wiring as there is a limited amount of space available for the wiring as there will be a 20s lipo pack, bms 12v dc to dc converter and lots of wires to sort out. So I figured all the wiring and soldered all the connection to make it solid.

after testing everything I rapped up the wires. Next was to mount the controller , now as this potentiality going to generate more heat than the standard controller, so I decided to screw the heat sinks directly to a ½ aluminium flat bar. All ridges have been leveled and I used thermal past to bolt it to the inside of the battery box. I velcro’ed the dc-dc converter to the side and built up the battery pack to maximize space. The battery is made up of 20s mulitstar packs soldered together and linked up to a Bluetooth smart BMS.


So a big tick. That’s the wiring and plumbing done. In addition to this the PV Bluetooth controller has a heat sensor build in ( cheers EG) so I can monitor its temp the PV app and I also planned to put one inside the c80100 motor.
So for switches I have the following. A main key switch to turn on the controller
a separate switch/feed to the dc to dc control as I want all the power to run at 12v and not 84v.
Front and rear led indicators with a toggle switch
Rear stop and side lights
LED head light
Horn
and a 3 speed switch to the controller which a can fully tweak with the PV app. I have gone with 1: slow speed and medium torque 2: medium/high speed and 3: high torque and full speed and full torque. I have not yet worked my confidence up to using the speed boost (field weakening) as it should be plenty fast enough.
So the battery BMS is fully programmable via phone or laptop and the BMS has temp sensors wired in for good measure.

So that is just about it with the wiring, now time for making a mounting plate for the motor and stripping the rear end down so I can build it up.

Now a photo speaks a thousand works so I won’t go on to much but the drive train is a 219 chain running a 17t motor sprocket and 72t rear kart gear, mounted to the adapter plate then mounted to the wheel. These will all but tensioned by a custom chain tensioner I have made. I will let the photos help explain when they come.

So after a lot of thinking cutting, bolting, drilling, unbolting, checking, bolting and more thinking I have finished to build.

Next is the first test ride: so turned it all on and triple checked all the settings and set it to low speed. The soft start kicked in and I was off. As I did lots of bench testing on the drive train I knew it was al lined up perfectly and all would be good but there is still the air of “what if it goes wrong and I fall off” . So I took it slow down the road and released the throttle to be greeted by the regen!

I thought this will take some getting used to but no the less carried on. Opened it up a little more only to see the speedo was reading 40 mph . “Hang on this is jogging speed of 40mph!” So more fettling with the settings and using another GPS device to check how close I was to the actual speed. Well that is sorted out now and I know up to 20mph it is bang on accurate.
So after checking the 160mm discs where good for some hard braking and that there were no problems with the running gear I switched to speed option 2 and went for a spin on a wet and dark country lanes. Well what can I say, I weight 20 odd stone and the thing pulls strong up to 36/38mph and there was more to go! but I am still building my confidence! I was shaking when I pulled over as I was so excited just like the big kid I am! so onward I thought then why not push the torque up to full and see what hard acceleration feels like.

All I can say is it feels good, very good! After about 5 miles of giving it some stick in that setting I got home in a very happy mood and noticed the temperature gauge for the controller was only showing 27C ( my heat sinking idea worked out well then) and the motor crept up to 60C ( the probe is mounted as close as I could get it to the winding's without taking it to bits).


So all in all I am very happy with the build and how it runs and I want to say a personal thank you to Richard (Electric God) for all your help on this project. You have built me a great motor and controller and have always been there when I got stuck. You have been very patent and I think its been a great journey and I have picked up a good friend.

Anyway enough of that ! There will be more for me to do as I am never happy and this is why I love projects like this………………… oh anyone looking for a 1600w boma motor and controller a couple of different pinions and gears? Oh I have cut most of the connectors from the controller off but it works fine.

photos added later

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