Razor Phase Two Conversion

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 20 2018 2:12pm

Hello there,

after reading many threads on this forum I finally managed to create an account to present my EV-journey. To make it less boring I added as many pictures as I could find :D

It all startet March 2016 when I bought my first electric scooter. It is called Mach1 1600W. I ordered one with offroad tires and went on trials in the woods all around our small village.
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It was quite fun but the heavy batteries and high weight paired with only 1600w just wasn't enough after some time.
But I tasted blood of EVs.

Two months later I built my own scooter. It was a Hudora kick scooter with longer base and an Alien Power 6374 90kv, APS 120A ESC and 11s 4Ah Lipos. I had no plan about the perfect kv and voltage and stuff like that. I soon changed the motor for a 170kv and larger gearing. After much time and effort this thing went 50km/h (30mp/h) with a very good acceleration.
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During summer in 2017 I made plans for a bigger and stronger scooter.
My shopping list that time:
Stunt Scooter as base (used Razor Phase Two on eBay)
APS 80100 130kv brushless motor
APS 200A 16s ESC
5000mAh 4s LiPo x4 = 16s
Aluminium profil to lengthen the deck and make room for the batteries
Wheel, Rim, disc brake, sprocket and chain from an electric scooter website
(wheel diameter 270mm, Gearing 14t to 63t)
Alumnium from eBay for custom parts and mounts.
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Then the fun part began: putting it all together, fiddeling with electronics and space. You name it.
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Installed an Arduino Mini to smooth out the throttle
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The final state from 2017 with a top speed of just over 80kmh (or 50mph)
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Here are two videos I also took in that time:

A fast pass:



And a POV.
The only time I gave it full throttle is at 1:55.
Feel free to skip :wink: :


At the end of 2017 I had a working scooter but I wasn't pleased.
Here are my main issues from that time:
-the original front wheel
-the low handlebars
-the poor feeling of control on the APS ESC. You all know what I mean. Even after hooking the hall throttle up to an Arduino that softens the input it was far from good.
-the chain drive. I hated the sound at higher revs, the splashing oil and the pinched chain parts

Perfect for winter the APS ESC stopped working without a sign (I think out of conductive reaons) and I had time to rethink. At that time the VESC6 came to my ears and after some thinking (and saving money) I bought it.

In the next few months I did all the things from my todo-list.
- I milled new parts for the front and a friend of mine welded it on the original fork. Now I could put on the wider rims as I already had in the back
- The handlebar tube was cut and a distance tube was welded in place to give a more comfort height.
- I played around with the VESC6 and soon installed the "no_limit" software which allows a peak of 160 motor amps and 120 battery amps. Thumb throttle on the right and thumb brake on the left. It's a perfect little device. Sadly only for 12s.
- I switched to a HTD 5m 16mm wide belt drive. The gearing didn't change. Chain was 14t on 63t, Belt is 16t to 72t. Both are i=4,5.
-Two Multistars 6s 16Ah in series give me a about 25km (15miles) of full throttle or much more if you keep it slow (but I honestly never tested that :lol: )
-Top speed now is 63 km/h (39 mp/h) which is perfect for a scooter that seize.
-All up weight is around 20kg

Here comes the pictures of how it looks today:
IMG_3718.jpg
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With the bluetooth module from metr.at you see all the live stats (speed, amps, WH and so on) and are able to change the settings with a flick of your finger. It's awesome! (Screenshot is from an ebike tour, don't get confused with the km)
IMG_3266.PNG
On the left the thumb brake and mechanical brake, in the middle the phone holder and on the right the thumb throttle
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Here you can see the custom welded and black paintet fork and the aluminium sideparts
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The motor got a 3D-printed fan tosuck air through it while turning
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The belt drive with 16teeth to 72teeth gearing
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The two 6s 16Ah Multistars with much space for all the cables and connectors
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Disc brake
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Here you see how the alumnium profil is hold in place. There are 8 boldts that go through the deck and clamp under it with the help of small aluminium bridges.
IMG_3725.jpg
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Easy to take apart and fits perfect in my small car
IMG_3726.jpg
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Where do we go from here?
I want (of course :lol: ) more power as the motor seems to laugh at me. Every time I punch the throttle it only gets barely warm but the VESC is on its absolutely limits with bursts of 4800w. So I need a bigger controller, more Volts and a higher gearing for much more acceleration.

Last weekend my ordered Kelly controller finally came in the mail. I got the KLS1872S (200A motor, 80A battery and 72V input Voltage)

I already changed the gearing to a massive 100t rear sprocket which gives me a reduction of 6,25 on the 270mm wheel.
My intention was to go back to 16s (adding a 4s 16Ah) where I came from but unfortunately the 4s was sold out already and the big multistars aren't shipped to germany anymore. With the help of beetbocks (some here should know him) we managed to get one of the last 6s packs before they ran out of stock. Puhhh :pancake: At this point many thanks again and greetings!

My intention was to solder the two cells out of the 6s multistar and make it a 4s. But then I thought that mayve, just maybe I can squeeze all three 6s 16Ah under my small deck. 18s sounds kind of fast :D

In this thread I continue to write about the project and the dream to finally reveal all of the 7kw peak power. I appreciate every comment or tip someone has forme.
Thanks for reading!
Last edited by Amaxophobie on Nov 27 2018 2:21pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 21 2018 3:01pm

Today the massive 100 teeth HTD 5m pulley was CNC milled.

Here is a comparison between the 72 teeth and the 100 teeth
IMG_3614.jpg
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Just after milling
eaee12a3-3a40-4674-a981-ad8494911032.JPG
And back on the wheels
IMG_4325.jpg
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I know it still looks massive but much better than the soup plate before :lol:
During the process the pulley lost about 170 gramms.

It currently weighs 626gramm
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

Fastassmotors   10 W

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Fastassmotors » Nov 22 2018 10:55pm

Hey man you were my inspiration to go for as fast as I can and make a great build. I'd like to get in touch with you. I've ordered 8x turnigy 4s 5ah batteries for 16s 10ah going to upgrade to more the batteries are BEASTLY. Just trying to figure out the batteries I can get because I'm going to need like 100ah and trying not to spend $2000 on batteries lol. My e300 is light at hell it goes 30 right now it is less then 20 kilos only 800w I'm getting a 15kw for the mx :twisted: so yeah it's gonna go at least 80mph 140ish kph it's gonna be awesome

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 26 2018 1:57pm

Thanks for your comment!
The Razor E300 is the perfect scooter to start your modding. Also I'm kind of envious about your Razor MX650.
This is meant to be moded and already got the place for batteries and motor. And on top of that it is a solid frame from a good company, meant for 80 kilos that wont break that easily. Sadly it's too expensive to ship one to germany... :(
Im interested in your build. You should open a new thread about the MX650 :wink:
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 26 2018 2:36pm

Small updates:

As I go up with the amps I need to secure that the belt doesn't slip. So I ordered a biger bearing and now it has a good 180 degrees even on the smallest 16t pulley.
K1600_IMG_4336.JPG
K1600_IMG_4365.JPG
Here is a size comparism between a VESC6 from Trampa and the Kelly KLS7218S. It's huge!! :roll:
K1600_IMG_4239.JPG

The first setup went very easy and without problems. Cable tied the big controller under the scooter and went for a test drive on 12s as I'm still waiting for my other 6s Multistar.

Performance is quite good with 200A motor current and 100A battery. After talking to fany from Kelly I tuned the starting torque and now it lifts the front from a standstill. Beautiful! :D
Whats not that great is the control as this isn't torque controlled.... :(
K1600_IMG_4357.JPG
Now the harder part begins. Fitting it all (3x 6s 16000mAh AND the big Kelly AND room for cables and connectors) under my small deck. I want this thing be powerful but sleek.
I came up with the idea of setting the last battery around 3cm deeper to make room for the connectors. The Kelly can't fit under the motor like the small VESC6 has so I need to screw it under the alumnium profil.
As the cables aren't flexible enough I've ordered silikon ones with 8AWG to solder on the original ones. The cables will be bent and put through a hole in the bottom plate to disappear under the motor.
K1600_top.JPG
K1600_side.JPG
The cables will get a custom 3D-printed case so its hidden and secure from dirt.
K1600_down.JPG
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Emoto » Nov 27 2018 3:35am

Nice build , deck looks a bit skinny :D good work on the tensioner as pullys lower than 20t wear belts a bit quicker, but that should help you. i like all the ali machined parts.

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 27 2018 6:08am

Thanks for your comment!
You are right about the deck. It has the same small width as the original deck with 12,5cm or 5 inches width. A Little bit more space to the side would be great but it's okay.
Talking about belts I can't see any significant wear with the small pulley. But the belt system only has something like 300 km (185 miles) on it.
The problem with the belt is, that it sometimes slips while braking. But on the other hand never slipped during acceleration.
Have to keep an eye on that...

Looking forward to see new stuff on your scooter build!!! :D
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Emoto » Nov 27 2018 8:41am

Your Belt wear will be interesting , and ive never seen a battery draw, pretty damm smart mate .
Looking forward to see new stuff on your scooter build!!! :D
Me too :roll: :D

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eee291   100 kW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by eee291 » Nov 27 2018 12:40pm

Nice Build man :thumb:

You could add a brake switch to stop the Belt from slipping.

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 27 2018 2:13pm

Thank you eee291!

What do you mean by brake switch?
The way I meant it was that the belt slips when you brake with the motor. It starts at around -50A motor current during recuperation. But it doesn't happen during acceleration at 160A motor current.

Maybe it has something to do with the direction of the force going through the belt?
AC_BR2.jpg
While accelerating the motor pulls on the belt that is connected to the wheel. In my case thats a straight line. But during braking the wheel drives the motor and the pulling force changes to the bottom.
Now still at braking the belt comes round the big pulley and goes back to the motor on the upper side. But this straight line has nearly no tension. And maybe this results in the slipping.

I hope my writing is understandable...
Can someone confirm my thoughts? :roll:
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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eee291   100 kW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by eee291 » Nov 27 2018 3:05pm

I see. I thought you were braking so hard with the disk brake that the motor was not decelerating elegantly.
But you can fix that in the Kelly settings. Either decrease regen current or increase regen ramp-up time.

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Dec 22 2018 2:47pm

Finally had time to go on with this project.

After doing some hard accelerations I found the reason for the belt coming lose:
The extension arms holding the back tire are screwed to the aluminium profil using 4 screws with slot nuts. After going up from 160A motor current to 200A the motor pulls the whole back assembly closer to itself.
Result: Belt comes lose.
Solution: Add 4 more screws on each side to hold it even tighter.
K1600_IMG_4616.JPG

As I had to take the whole scooter apart to make adjustments for the third 6s 16Ah battery pack, I thought why not overpaint the ugly blue with dull black?

Sawing the deck:
K1600_IMG_4535.JPG
K1600_IMG_4536.JPG
Repainting:
K1600_IMG_4538.JPG
Here you can see how the aluminium profil is mounted to the deck using slot nuts:
K1600_IMG_4582.JPG
K1600_IMG_4583.JPG
This will be a tight fit!!
K1600_IMG_4586.JPG
3D-printed a temporary controller mount. How do I manage to clean up all the cables :?:
K1600_IMG_4596.JPG
3D-printed a small box with aluminium plate to hide all connectors and cables to make it look clean
K1600_IMG_4607.JPG
K1600_IMG_4608.JPG
(Nearly) fully assembled scooter
K1600_IMG_4609.JPG
Empty battery box:
K1600_IMG_4612.JPG
And full:
K1600_IMG_4614.JPG
As you can see there is about 3cm air over the third battery to makeroom for the XT90 series connector. The cables for throttle, analog brake, motor and motorsensors are stuffed in the space under the motor plate.

To do list for now:

-some kind of voltmeter/ speedometer/ Ampmeter
-add front brakes. driving around only with the disc is stupid
-aluminium holder for mudguard (the 3D-printed one broke)
-race against a car and upload the results to endless sphere :D
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Dec 26 2018 1:12pm

Today was a bad day...

After nearly two weeks of rain and wet streets it finally dried enough to give the scooter a go. While I was loading the batteries my intention was to add the analog thumb braking in the Kelly PC-software. Then it happened:

As I connected a single 6s LiPo the XT90s literally exploded in my hands. Both cables became so hot, that they melted the solder connection on the battery connector! Luckily I went off with no injuries. With the battery in my hand I rushed on the balkony in case the LiPo wanted to have new years eve a little bit earlier :lol:

On the picture you see the XT90s with the male and female part melted together and the desoldered battery side and solder on the floor:
K1600_IMG_4650.JPG
How could this happen?
The wires were all connected correctly as I already got it to work flawlessly.
The only thing I changed was lengthen the battery and motor wires. My thoughts are now that soldering with a temperatur of 400°C (thick cables) near the controller (5cm) maybe desoldered something inside the kelly causing a short circuit...
K1600_IMG_4649.png
Maybe someone has any idea?

Maybe I will open the controller this evening to see what happened inside.
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Dec 26 2018 2:58pm

Found the problem...

I soldered the XT90s for the kelly with reversed polarity :bigthumb:
You can even see it on the first picture...
Maybe I breathed in to much solder smoke on that last connector

I measured the resistance and it's still raising so the caps should be good I guess :?:

Maybe I just connect an old battery for testing and see if it comes back to live
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 26 2018 6:43pm

Reverse power connections will do you in!

I've made my fair share of dumb mistakes.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

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eee291   100 kW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by eee291 » Dec 27 2018 2:37am

Xt90 saved my Controller once. I also had it soldered on wrong and when I plugged it into the battery I was getting a buzzing noise and the connector was heating up fast.
I had it plugged in only partially so the resistor was limiting the current and that ended up saving my Controller form reverse polarity.

If you are one of those guys that don't wait for dor it to pre-charge and just mate the connector fully you will not be able to save it :cry:

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Dec 27 2018 7:40am

Thanks for your comments!

It's back alive, I guess :roll:

First I resoldered the burned connection seen in the red circle:
K1600_IMG_4658.JPG
Then I connected an old 5s battery to the controller (with nothing connected) on the balkony in case something bad happens. No sparks or smoke. The Kelly gave me the LED-code *** ****
I checked the manual and it looked like the Kelly was complaining about the missing hall and motor connections :o

So I went to the scooter and connected throttle, hall set and motor wires. The green LED stayed on and it works on the bench like nothing happened!
Of course I need to check if it handles loads but so far so good. Will report!

Thanks Santa, you came late this year :lol:
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Dec 31 2018 1:06pm

I made a small video around the scooter at my last drive on my local track.
At the end of the video you can see the acceleration from a standstill to around 50km/h.

Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

Madyicstik   10 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Madyicstik » Aug 29 2019 7:43am

great write up! those aluminum profiles, are they mounted through and through or you used those t nus to mount it to the donor scooter? in 230lbs so im just wondering if it will hold the wheight

cheapcookie   100 W

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by cheapcookie » Nov 17 2019 12:29pm

Where can I buy the rear wheel?

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Razor Phase Two Conversion

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 17 2019 1:27pm

@Madyicstik
Thanks for your comment and sorry for my late answer.
I was concerned about the strength of these T-nuts too but believe me before they break the allen key will damage the head of the bolt. Looking back from now I would choose bigger aluminium profiles (like in my Pit-Bike build). The one on the scooter had nut size 5 and the largest size bolt is M5. Toanswer your question: Yes I just used the T-nuts to join the aluminium profile with the deck.
Regarding your concern about the weight, I can say that I rode this together with my girlfriend without any issues. ~around 140kg for us both so around 310lbs. This scooter was not spared. I'm still amazed it hold up after all I've done with it :lol:

@cheapcookie
I bought them in an austrian scooter shop online. Here are the links:
Rim: https://www.elektromoped.at/de/6-5-alu- ... style.html
Wheel: https://www.elektromoped.at/de/strassen ... ooter.html
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqr3x7 ... 5kRkTCIZng

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