Just bought an olde school scooter

I just bought an old second hand scooter for the kids and I. It has a nice look to it, and it’s built incredibly strong like one of those old-school kids bicycles. It looks like a good base to repair and upgrade.
There’s no brand or model # markings on the scooter frame of any kind. The motor and some of the electronics are made in china. It runs off a 12v SLA battery. Brushed beltdrive motor claims 12v 14.5amps. Nice 200x50 air tires.
the guy had it in storage for years, and had lost the charge cable. The battery reads 0.6v, so I assume it’s garbage. I thought it charged direct from 120AC, so made an old cable fit the unusual socket, and boom! Bit of smoke and light. It appears to have torched the piece I’m pointing the pencil at.
I’ll assume that socket is for stepped down voltage, but no idea how much, type, and what cable.

I just happen to have an identical new battery, so I hooked it up and everything powers up. However, the motor runs so weakly that it can’t even push the weight of the scooter itself. If I hook the motor directly to the battery, it gives much more power and torque, testing on the bench. Why? Can the scooter be ridden this way?
The original throttle is just a simple on off trigger, but it had What appears to be a three level battery indicator. There is also a power switch (and possibly combined resettable fuse) on the bottom.
Any idea how I can get this going?
Would a new brushed controller fix all this? Which one? Would all existing hardware just feed into the box wires? What power can I expect?
Trying to post pics but getting errors. Perhaps a YouTube video is better?

You need to replace everything other than maybe the motor, which may, possibly, be able to run at a more common 24 volts DC, with a DC (?) controller and proper throttle. Is the motor in the hub, or does it sit in the frame and drive the scooter through a chain? Hub motors are more complicated and harder to upgrade, but they also don't generally run at 12 volts, so I'm guessing the drive motor is separate from the wheel.

No more experiments with 120 volts AC, please!

Try juicing the motor directly from the battery. If it runs strong and fast, then your problem is in the controller or wiring.

DC brushed motor controllers are really cheap and easy to find.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-48V-2000W-10-50V-40A-DC-Brush-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller/111851538617

Do you just put + on a phase and - on another phase. Learned something new today. Generic controllers are plenty on fleabay! I stick to what I know, so the only ones I got (2 or 3) cont's are from hksunwin. Easy to modify the LVC by use of a soldering iron and a resistor. Which is a project I am doing today, well its the fix up the ebike day for me. Nothings open I did my annual "Merry Christmas" Email rounds, one came back he was Buddhist or it could have been a joke. Another replied "Merry Commercial Christmas" which is true, but gotta do it for the children. I dont care what I get, I never know what to tell people. They usually end up giving me gift cards and lotto tickets. Yes I regift, so stuff is in storage for 350 days. And Amazon purchases with no store hassle!

Chalo said:

Try juicing the motor directly from the battery. If it runs strong and fast, then your problem is in the controller or wiring.

DC brushed motor controllers are really cheap and easy to find.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-24V-48V-2000W-10-50V-40A-DC-Brush-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-HHO-RC-Controller/111851538617

Click to expand...

markz said:

Do you just put + on a phase and - on another phase. Learned something new today. Generic controllers are plenty on fleabay!

Click to expand...

Brushed DC motors have two wires. Hook them up one way and they go forward, flip the leads and they go backwards. It's the good thing about them. (Also, controllers are cheap.).

The tradeoff is they compromise efficiency (sometimes a lot) and brushes wear down. The failure mode for controllers is often full-on.

E-cars were usually brushed DC until very recently. Golf carts still are.

ya I should have read more, I am so used to working on my ebike brushless. My ideal electric vehicle would still be a bicycle, with the classic bicycle look as apposed to rides that look like motorcycles with pedals on them, though I have no need for fast speed. I like to go places where bicycles are allowed, blending in nicely with everyone, then when that hill comes out of nowhere, do some fake pedaling. Or make people's eyes widen with the classic feet up in the air, going up the hill. Ideal setup, e-bicycle for in the city, and an EV for a daily commuter no need to worry about gas prices.

Jonny333 said:

I just happen to have an identical new battery, so I hooked it up and everything powers up. However, the motor runs so weakly that it can’t even push the weight of the scooter itself. If I hook the motor directly to the battery, it gives much more power and torque, testing on the bench. Why? Can the scooter be ridden this way?
The original throttle is just a simple on off trigger, but it had What appears to be a three level battery indicator. There is also a power switch (and possibly combined resettable fuse) on the bottom.

Click to expand...

Most likely the "controller" is just a set of relays, like the cheap kids' kickscooters, like this one
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=89541

One relay disconnects power if you pull the ebrake lever.

The other relay connects power if you pull the throttle lever.

The two relays are usually wired in series.

If the coil on either relay is faulty, it won't fully pull in the relay contacts.

Usually the one that fails is the brake relay, becuase it is "on" all the time the power switch is on, except when teh brake lever is pulled. This means it's coil always has current thru it.

Many of them use relays with coil voltages that should be significantly lower than the actual battery voltage, so the current thru the coil is too high, and damages the coil insulation over time. Eventually the coil can fail.

Sometiems it is a solder joint that fails, either on the coil or the relay contacts.

Sometimes the breaker or power switch fails partly, so it doesn't pass current sufficiently.

If the throttle trigger and/or brake lever are actually the switch the power to the motor goes thru, then the contacts inside the switch (or the wiring anywhere along the path) may be damaged, and unable to pass current enough to make the motor run.

Sometimes the brushes on the motor are just worn out, so under load it doesn't operate normally, but off-ground it appears to work fine.


You'd ahve to open up the "controller box" to see what is actually in there. If it's relays it's really simple to check it, but it also may not handle the current that a high-current LiPo battery can put out, and may arc-weld contacts in the relays. Same thing for if the throttle trigger/lever are direct-wired without relays.


You can also add a cheap brushed controller and throttle instead of the original wiring/stuff, and ahve actual speed control over the scooter. You need to look at the motor lable to see what wattage it's intended for, and get a cotnroller that limits current such that at the voltage you're running at, it doesn't exceed that wattage much, or you may burn up the motor.

If you just run the power direct to the motor, and use it that way, it may also burn up the motor, if the batteries you use now are more capable than those it came with originally.

This is very helpful. Ill make a video and link to that.
What cheap controller would work?
This 24v?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B0785YQ8CY/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1
This?
https://www.amazon.co.jp/KKmoon-DC10〜50V-PWMスピードコントローラ-モータドライバコントローラ-CCW可逆ドライバ/dp/B07C3P5YLZ/ref=pd_aw_vtph_21_tr_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07C3P5YLZ&pd_rd_r=5b0f4e77-08ea-11e9-ab89-5906063ad78c&pd_rd_w=40yRt&pd_rd_wg=I7Hle&pf_rd_p=c9ccbded-ce14-4c36-a862-3c22b8d60eb2&pf_rd_r=C4ND5TCRJG9XN0XQDWC9&psc=1&refRID=C4ND5TCRJG9XN0XQDWC9
Motor claims 12v 14.5a = 174w. Is this enough to haul kids (or an adult) around?
I may sub out to a li-ion to cut weight. If I go that route, what’s the best bang for buck upgrades? I’m wondering if it maybe wiser to swap out some kind of kit, and just keep the frame and tires...

You have to post photos or a working video link before anyone can maybe say what controller will work. No, that isn't enough power to haul kids. A geared motor might manage it - barely - with 500 watts. A hub motor would need to be at least 1000 watts. Even doubling the voltage to that motor might not be enough. You might well want to start with a new drivetrain, but we need more info to advise on that.

Ok. Thanks for bearing with me guys. Here’s a video overview of everything:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrNk2jNYolU&feature=youtu.be
Here’s the direct motor - battery. I briefly tested it and it shot off with me on it. Almost too much torque and speed for kids without a gradated throttle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aZEzSSF-fA&feature=youtu.be
Bonus question:
SLA that came with it is dead (0.6v). Can it be revived?

Edit: iiuc, all I need to get it running would be this:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F183307786567
And this:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F222745528798
Motor, battery, throttle, on/off switch all feed into box. The box has an auto reset overload breaker that kicks in at 250w? It also has lvc to save the battery? Is the battery recharged through the controller as well?

Edit2: ok, I think I found out it’s called a “street jammer”, from the motor # and specs (close up of controller as well):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-dVZ7-grBg&feature=youtu.be
Not much info available, but appears the charge plug is discontinued, was 12v 3a. Rebranded 24v versions called “Z Turbo”. So what controller and throttle will work to get the 12v version working???

Heh. I for one was picturing a Vespa-type Chinese scooter! If the power is adequate, then that big reduction belt drive is all you need. You'll want confirmation from others, but any 12 volt brushed DC motor controller-throttle set should work. No, you can't revive that battery and have any real capacity. The good news is that 12 volt UPS batteries of that size are cheap.

Ok, so this:
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/crdDJ9R2
Or this:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F183307786567
They may actually be the same item? These are the only 12v controllers I found anywhere! Heaps of 24v+ varieties. I assume useing a 24 or 36v controller would not work? I ask because there are some available locally in that range.
So everything should feed into them? They cutout, and reset, if over amping? They cutoff at low voltage to protect the battery (10v seems aweful low, but better than nothing)?
They appear to have a charge the battery input. What voltage and amps plug do I use???
Any throttle should work, will it display voltage?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F222745528798
Thanks again guys!

Some DC motors can be 'over-volted' with no problems, while others can't. Doubling the voltage to use a 24 volt controller might work, but then you'd need two batteries of a smaller size, instead of one. Hopefully someone here who has actually done this will tell you how to proceed.

If you stick to the same maximum current/amps as the original, doubling the voltage will make the motor turn twice as fast, with the same torque as before. (It most likely won't result in the scooter moving twice as fast.)

DC brushed motor controllers are very simple and won't send more current to the motor than you draw from the battery.

Can I use a 24v or 36v 250w or 500w controller than? These are available localy and cheaper than 12v. If the battery and motor are 12v, these controllers would work just as well?
Edit: acutely, iiuc, I don’t think they will work. The LVC of 24v must be like 20v, so it’ll never even start with 12v. Also, 250w controller would not breaker switch in time for a 175w motor? On this I may have no choice, as looks like they dont make motors or controllers for 12v 175w anymore.

That 12 volt 250 watt controller on Ebay should work fine.

Jonny333 said:

Can I use a 24v or 36v 250w or 500w controller than?

Click to expand...

Those controllers will have a low voltage cutoff threshold that makes them impossible to use with a 12V battery.

The 10-50V controllers you've been looking at would work fine, and would allow you to switch to a higher voltage later if you like. You'll need to wire in a 0-5k ohm throttle instead of the speed dial.

One of the few luxuries of lead acid batteries is that they deliver only as much current as they're capable of, without annihilating themselves in the process. It's running them all the way down, or letting them sit around partly discharged, that ruins them.

After the kids destroy the lead battery, you can set it up with lithium at whatever voltage makes sense.

The 10-50V controllers you've been looking at would work fine, and would allow you to switch to a higher voltage later if you like.

Click to expand...

The Ebay listing is for several controllers, each with its own fixed voltage. He'd have to decide in advance what voltage he wanted.

LeftieBiker said:

The 10-50V controllers you've been looking at would work fine, and would allow you to switch to a higher voltage later if you like.

Click to expand...

The Ebay listing is for several controllers, each with its own fixed voltage. He'd have to decide in advance what voltage he wanted.

Click to expand...

Well, the one I linked is purported to work within the whole range.

Thank you. I would still have to buy a separate low-voltage cut off switch, as well as a dedicated charging circuit? I’m thinking it’s better just to wait the few weeks it will take to order a dedicated 12 V scooter controller. Those two I linked have no reference to input voltage/amps and method of recharging the battery.
As a side, I’m wondering what the point of increasing the voltage is (24,36v systems being sold now) if the wattage output is the same? All that does is requiring more expensive batteries?
Wacky side project: I have an old cordless 12 V drill and impact driver . I imagine the controller could be taken out and used on the scooter, although you would still have no low-voltage cut off, or overload breaker.

Chalo said:

LeftieBiker said:

The 10-50V controllers you've been looking at would work fine, and would allow you to switch to a higher voltage later if you like.

Click to expand...

The Ebay listing is for several controllers, each with its own fixed voltage. He'd have to decide in advance what voltage he wanted.

Click to expand...

Well, the one I linked is purported to work within the whole range.

Click to expand...

Yes, it sure looks that way. I was looking at the other Ebay listing you linked.

I bought this, as it was the only 12v controller with a throttle wireing. It looked like my only choice! I’m hoping it has LVC and over amp breaker, but no specs at all. Does not appear to support recharging.
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c5qThVRK

I also bought a 5v throttle:
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c7bqqb9q

The scooter is wired for motor cut when pulling the brake.

Btw, I tested and the current board outputs only 6.5v, while direct is full 12.5. Something defiantly worn out in the controller.