Farfles Electric Ultralight.

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Farfle
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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 24, 2017 12:03 pm

helno wrote:How is your weight budget looking? Far 103 is pretty strict with that 254 lb limit.

Looks like it will have tons of power. Belite makes neat little planes.
It should be OK. However the term "Dry weight" is being with modules removed if need be.
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by tomjasz » Jun 24, 2017 12:50 pm

fechter wrote:Do you need a FAA license to fly one of those?
Most of us that have or do, have at least gone to solo with conventional. Absolutely brilliant and impressive build. Man! The work with aluminum and rivets is first class! What they heck is your trade? As a relatively new fella I know your name from a swing arm. (one I'm always on the lookout for a deal on)
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Arlo1 » Jun 24, 2017 12:56 pm

So Stoked for this.

Needs a leaf motor for vertical take offs and some cool stunt flying...
My Leaf motor controller build. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
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HI power controller design. Game Changer

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by helno » Jun 24, 2017 7:06 pm

Farfle wrote: It should be OK. However the term "Dry weight" is being with modules removed if need be.
Just be careful with "dry weight".

Dale Kramer went that way with his electric Lazair (he as going to sell them so ensuring legal compliance was a necessity.) His opinion that the battery was fuel was allowed but he then had to ensure that the volume of his "fuel" was less than 5 gallons in volume as spelled out in FAR 103.

It is an unfortunately restrictive set of rules. The Canadian ultralight regs allow quite a bit more in terms of weight.

The LSA rules as written do not allow electric propulsion because when they were written piston engines were specified to avoid having some joker install a gas turbine.

How much current are those cells capable of? Would a 2p pack be capable of 300+ amps?

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 24, 2017 9:23 pm

His pack is capable of ~1300A peak and >600A continously on 28s (~102vdc nominal).

On just 2p vs 4p, it will do 300A fine.
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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by jonescg » Jun 24, 2017 11:01 pm

They're a 10 C continuous cell aren't they Luke?

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 24, 2017 11:34 pm

jonescg wrote:They're a 10 C continuous cell aren't they Luke?
Nope, 10C peak ~5-6C continous depending on pack cooling.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 27, 2017 8:40 pm

Playing with Dash layouts:

Image

Image

Image
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 27, 2017 8:47 pm

Something that I just thought of is the "fuel" weight. In a conventional aircraft, the fuel tank(s) have to be located where their changing weight (as the fuel is used up) will not adversely affect the balance of the aircraft.

In the past, some long-range aircraft would use up fuel near the center of its balance, and then pump fuel from various extra tanks to the central tank. Tricky business if a transfer pump failed. Also, constantly adjusting the balance is an un-necessary task that takes the pilots attention away, just when they might desperately need it for something else.

With batteries, they can be placed just about anywhere...even places where it could enhance the handling in a way that liquid consumable fuel could never do.

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 27, 2017 8:54 pm

spinningmagnets wrote:Something that I just thought of is the "fuel" weight. In a conventional aircraft, the fuel tank(s) have to be located where their changing weight (as the fuel is used up) will not adversely affect the balance of the aircraft.

In the past, some long-range aircraft would use up fuel near the center of its balance, and then pump fuel from various extra tanks to the central tank. Tricky business if a transfer pump failed. Also, constantly adjusting the balance is an un-necessary task that takes the pilots attention away, just when they might desperately need it for something else.

With batteries, they can be placed just about anywhere...even places where it could enhance the handling in a way that liquid consumable fuel could never do.
Yes, The CG will be Sooo much nicer to calculate out with masses that dont change :mrgreen:
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by helno » Jun 27, 2017 9:51 pm

The downside of course is that you are always flying around with full tanks as far as W+B goes. It is less of a problem in a single seat plane but I rarely fill the tanks in my Cherokee because it limits what you can carry and slows you down when you don't need it.

You have quite a bit going on in that dash for a low and slow plane.

Here is what I had in a Lazair a few years ago. The EFIS is just clutter in a VFR plane like this.

Image

MONI has a similarly spartan panel.

Image

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 27, 2017 10:00 pm

helno wrote:The downside of course is that you are always flying around with full tanks as far as W+B goes. It is less of a problem in a single seat plane but I rarely fill the tanks in my Cherokee because it limits what you can carry and slows you down when you don't need it.

You have quite a bit going on in that dash for a low and slow plane.

Here is what I had in a Lazair a few years ago. The EFIS is just clutter in a VFR plane like this.

Image

MONI has a similarly spartan panel.

Image

Thanks for the panel shots! I am still working thru ground school, and so I dont know jack about what Instruments to be running. I will likely ditch the EFIS for a dedicated instrument from Belite that just does airspeed, altitude and climb rate.
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by amberwolf » Jun 28, 2017 1:41 am

The one thing I can highly recommend is to design the dash around teh things you *have* to see *right now* and *all the time*.

Anything you don't have to have or have to see should be peripheral, but not so far out of eyeshot that you have to take your eyes away from the stuff you *do* have to see, or the outside view.

Make stuff you need to see big and clear; easy to see. Ditch subtlety--anything that's important is probably something you need to know without thinking about it, right now. (maybe not all the time, but when you really do need to know, you really need to know and won't have time to sort the info out from each other).

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by helno » Jun 28, 2017 8:55 am

The combined airspeed and altimeter were all I ever needed. Getting a low range airspeed indicator is important for aircraft like this since accuracy at the bottom of the scale is more important than at the top of it.

The Stratomaster I have (its sitting on a shelf if you are interested in buying it?) has a red LED and has a provision for an external idiot lamp that goes off when you go below a certain airspeed.

I would leave space on your dash to mount a cellphone or tablet and then run a Stratux so you get mapping and ADS-B in.

What are you doing for engine monitoring? Does the controller you have give you a good dash?

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 28, 2017 10:41 am

helno wrote:The combined airspeed and altimeter were all I ever needed. Getting a low range airspeed indicator is important for aircraft like this since accuracy at the bottom of the scale is more important than at the top of it.

The Stratomaster I have (its sitting on a shelf if you are interested in buying it?) has a red LED and has a provision for an external idiot lamp that goes off when you go below a certain airspeed.

I would leave space on your dash to mount a cellphone or tablet and then run a Stratux so you get mapping and ADS-B in.

What are you doing for engine monitoring? Does the controller you have give you a good dash?
For "engine" monitoring I have the MGL 12 channel thermocouple reader picking up on a variety of battery, motor and controller temps,
On the electrical side I have a Cycle Analyst with the normal shunt and voltage measurements taking input from a pitot tube for airspeed to get efficiency numbers.

I likely wont be looking at all the temps all the time, but mainly just looking for the alarm light. Battery heat will not be a problem, nor will controller heat, but the motor will go into reduced-current de-rating if pushed too hard for too long. granted, the equilibrium point should leave me with more horsepower than stock, but keeping an eye on power available will be important i think.
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by helno » Jun 28, 2017 11:00 am

I suspect you will be able to push that motor pretty hard with the massive amount of air cooling available.

I have seen it fly on an Earthstar Thundergull which is a much bigger and heavier plane. The Belite is likely half the weight.

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by billvon » Jun 28, 2017 11:03 am

Farfle wrote:Playing with Dash layouts:
Pretty sure you are not going to need the cylinder head temperature monitor!
--bill von

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 28, 2017 11:06 am

helno wrote:I suspect you will be able to push that motor pretty hard with the massive amount of air cooling available.

I have seen it fly on an Earthstar Thundergull which is a much bigger and heavier plane. The Belite is likely half the weight.

IIRC the thundergull is running the longer stator version of this motor, just not the IPM rotor. I bet it performs well with ventilation behind a prop.
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jun 28, 2017 11:06 am

billvon wrote:
Farfle wrote:Playing with Dash layouts:
Pretty sure you are not going to need the cylinder head temperature monitor!
Its being used for measuring the motor/controller/batt temps :pancake:
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by flathill » Jun 28, 2017 11:28 pm

Might want to hook up with Virgil in SF. He built an ultralight with his dad in high school

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Farfle
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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jul 03, 2017 11:26 am

helno wrote:The combined airspeed and altimeter were all I ever needed. Getting a low range airspeed indicator is important for aircraft like this since accuracy at the bottom of the scale is more important than at the top of it.

The Stratomaster I have (its sitting on a shelf if you are interested in buying it?) has a red LED and has a provision for an external idiot lamp that goes off when you go below a certain airspeed.

I would leave space on your dash to mount a cellphone or tablet and then run a Stratux so you get mapping and ADS-B in.

What are you doing for engine monitoring? Does the controller you have give you a good dash?
Mixing up the dash on the plane home. Will post up the simplified version shortly.
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jul 03, 2017 11:46 am

tomjasz wrote: Most of us that have or do, have at least gone to solo with conventional. Absolutely brilliant and impressive build. Man! The work with aluminum and rivets is first class! What they heck is your trade? As a relatively new fella I know your name from a swing arm. (one I'm always on the lookout for a deal on)
Thanks! My official trade is electric vehicle powertrain consulting, but I have been fabricating things on the family farm since I was a kid. Lots of learning things the hard way.

My father has a quote from his dad that goes something like "Education costs money" and we both think that he wasnt talking about college. Trying stuff, breaking some things and learning from it may or may not be the cheaper way to learn.
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jul 14, 2017 3:48 pm

Battery modules are mounted up! CG math says this will get close, but its pretty early on in the weight and balance game, so we will see how much these will have to change.

Image

Image

Image
The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Farfle
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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by Farfle » Jul 14, 2017 3:50 pm

Also, a quick video of the DIY welding table I forgot to post:

The race bike:
24s5p 50c nano tech
Badass custom mofo outrunner 205x177mm 26kv
Peak power in : 420A at 87v
Peak power out: 34 Hp and 105ft/lb

Build to last...
"It will be assaulted by the elements, It will be ravaged by time and it will be destroyed by the user. BUT, if you Stick to the little rules: K.I.S.S., Overbuild everything, and test, review, revise, repeat. It will last"


Team Farfle blog!! http://www.farfleselectrics.blogspot.com

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Re: Farfles Electric Ultralight.

Post by cwah » Jul 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Woaaa

Will you be inside or remote controlled?

How long can u fly?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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