Blackfly at Oshkosh

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craneplaneguy   10 kW

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Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by craneplaneguy » Jul 25 2018 1:22pm

https://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/ ... ail#231245

Looking good, especially as it is a very tough crowd crowd there, a static display won't cut it. I've flown there several times but have passed in recent years, too damn hot and sticky, and crowded, plus with the web nowadays I can get the skinny on whats happening and stay in Idaho, ha ha. It was 48 degrees the other day on a flight up to Montana for some e biking :D

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by craneplaneguy » Jul 25 2018 1:31pm

My bad, it has not yet flown at Oshkosh.

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by fechter » Jul 25 2018 2:31pm

That's pretty cool. Uses big RC motor controllers. I kind of like how it angles downward during level flight so you get a good view of the ground (but maybe not so aerodynamic). Vertical landing looked pretty smooth.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by LockH » Jul 25 2018 2:47pm

Hehe... "The concept of home-to-office personal flight"... "rush hours" will nEVer be the same... :lol:
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Hillhater » Aug 29 2018 10:15pm

Looking at the Oshkosh stuff i came across this..
Its not electric, ( very much the opposite infact) ,.. but i thought you "bush Flyers" would appreciate it.
..Draco..tech stuff.
https://youtu.be/PqhI4MeCn1c


and this for stunning flight scenery..
+ a neat trick at 15 mins :o
https://youtu.be/D5Z2VNTFp-Q?t=917
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Chalo » Aug 30 2018 2:27am

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 29 2018 10:15pm
..Draco..tech stuff.
Yeah, just the thing for folks who can afford to spend more on a tacky toy than an honest man makes in his entire life.

And for someone who isn't bothered that his transient jollies disturb the peace and quiet of every living thing for miles.

And for someone who doesn't mind that his recreational activity results in over 10 pounds of CO2 per minute-- for hours and hours at a time.

One day soon, the people who think this stuff is okay will all be dead. I hope they don't take the rest of us with them due to a general lack of conscience on their parts.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Hillhater » Aug 30 2018 8:32am

Ahh ! .. Do i detect a hint of envy ?
....10 lbs of CO2.
.....isnt that plant food ? :wink:
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Voltron » Aug 30 2018 12:00pm

Fertilizer is plant food too... doesn't mean dumping so much of it into the environment that every waterway in Florida turns into turns into stinking toxic algae sludge is a good thing.

Water is pretty essential for plants too... until its flooding from abnormal storms that crush the crops and leave flatted hardpan behind after stripping off the topsoil.

And while radically increasing the amount of CO2 in one generation might help some land plants grow where it used to be cold.... its offset by all the areas that can barely raise crops on the summer due to drought, heatwaves and desertification, and the massive acidification of the oceans, killing many sea dwelling plants, and interfering with the development of pretty much any animals that use limestone secretions i.e. shellfish and coral reefs.

And Hillhater... one of the articles YOU linked to in the melting ice caps thread made that exact point about Australian winter crop gains being more than offset by summer crop losses due to heatwaves and drought, while you were hypocritically trying to make that same point that CO2 is just plant food, so its all good, which is the exact opposite of the evidence presented in the article.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Chalo » Aug 30 2018 12:57pm

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 30 2018 8:32am
Ahh ! .. Do i detect a hint of envy ?
You're mistaken. I don't want an idle couple million stolen dollars so I can build a flying Hummer. I don't want to take a pleasure trip to orbit. Or own a slave. Or burn up more than my part of the world's shared resources, whether for funsies or for greed.

Being able to identify things that are wrong is not the same as being envious of them.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Hillhater » Aug 30 2018 6:40pm

Chalo wrote:
Aug 30 2018 12:57pm
.... I don't want an idle couple million stolen dollars so I can build a flying Hummer. ....
Ironicly ..the guy made his millions (legaly) cleaning up environmental waste ! :D
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Hillhater » Aug 30 2018 6:47pm

Voltron wrote:
Aug 30 2018 12:00pm
.....
And while radically increasing the amount of CO2 in one generation might help some land plants grow where it used to be cold.... ....yada, yada,yada.! :roll:
I think you are posting in the wrong thread !
....go try one where someone might be interested in misguided ideology.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Voltron » Aug 30 2018 6:53pm

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 30 2018 6:47pm
Voltron wrote:
Aug 30 2018 12:00pm
.....
And while radically increasing the amount of CO2 in one generation might help some land plants grow where it used to be cold.... ....yada, yada,yada.! :roll:
I think you are posting in the wrong thread !
....go try one where someone might be interested in misguided ideology.
Says the guy who dragged the gas plane into somebodies Blackfly thread, because he thought it was cool.

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Hillhater » Aug 30 2018 8:00pm

Sure, i brought attention to a gas plane at Oshkosh,...in a flight thread, thinking that some flight enthusiasts may be interested.
But you seem to have just trolled around looking for any transgression of the CO 2 religion in order to regurgitate your ideology, no matter what the thread may be. :roll:
Last edited by Hillhater on Aug 30 2018 9:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Voltron » Aug 30 2018 8:04pm

As a flight enthusiast myself, I actually came to read about a cool electric aircraft... In the electric aircraft section... In a forum generally focused on electric alternative transportation.

Your drivel was just an annoying delusional sidenote.

Anyways, back o.t... that Blackfly does seem pretty interesting!

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by craneplaneguy » Sep 02 2018 2:50pm

I personally know some guys, who were in the short field contest at Oshkosh, 5 of them anyway, those guys are my homies, who know the builder of Draco. Not my cup of tea, airplane wise, but the guy made his money the old fashioned way, he didn't "steal it." He has a work ethic that is unreal, is super sharp mechanically, and pretty much a genius in all things, his taste is just different then our's in aircraft, nuff said.

That angle of attack it (Blackfly, I'm done with all things Draco) flies at looks like something from a science fiction movie, I get why it does, but it's hard to get used to! I find it super interesting to see pretty much non traditional airplane guys, with a strong computer background, messing around with this new tech E drives and just generally taking a brand new fresh approach to things. One result is the way that Blackfly operates, it's landing configeration is as weird, and as practical, as it's flight, outta the box thinking at work.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Chalo » Sep 02 2018 5:23pm

craneplaneguy wrote:
Sep 02 2018 2:50pm
but the guy made his money the old fashioned way, he didn't "steal it." He has a work ethic that is unreal, is super sharp mechanically, and pretty much a genius in all things, his taste is just different then our's in aircraft, nuff said.
He can have all the things you say, but he still won't have an unallocated million+ dollars and a couple thousand free hours to spend on a toy, without having stolen the proceeds of a whole lot of people's actual labor. Let's be honest about that. Even if you get $250/hr AND your work is worth that much, you won't have a loose million bucks to spend on a toy, plus the time to build it. You have to skim off other people's living.

It's a product of the same philosophy that drives the petroleum-powered world. Somebody else is paying the cost, so who cares?
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by craneplaneguy » Sep 04 2018 7:50am

I just have to respond, though I tried hard not to beat this dead horse as I know you won't get it.

He MADE his money, think about that term for a second. He didn't take it from you or others, he CREATED a larger "pie", he didn't take your piece. It's a simple concept.

Another very wealthy airplane guy I know, who has one of the largest private airstrips in the country in an area near me (and I am welcome to drop in, and do from time to time) a guy who you would say stole his millions from others no doubt, MADE his wealth by creating the winglets on Boeing and other aircraft. These winglets save tremendous amounts of fuel and the aircraft companies are more then happy to pay a fee for their use as it saves them so much money, it's a win/win situation for all concerned. I also know a lot of "trust fund babies", who live off their inherited wealth, they are non productive citizens in general, EXCEPT for the service people who make a living taking care of them, the bike mechanics who keep their high end bikes in shape for example, or the crane operators who work on their new too large homes like me. I have rubbed shoulders with very wealthy people via my aviation activities, and the self made millionaire is a super impressive hard working and smart son of bitch every time, as far from a thief as could be. These high earners can't help but spread it around to us others lower down on the economic rung, even if they just stick their cash in the bank, that money is loaned out for other uses, you obviously have a very limited and incomplete view of how the world works when it comes to financial issues. I like your bike advice, your world view is immature and childish.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Chalo » Sep 04 2018 11:35am

I was hired personally by a billionaire to work on his vanity space program. During the years I worked there, he introduced me to a couple of other billionaires-- one was a software executive turned patent troll, and the other had developed an online financial hustle and then started a space program of his own. So I'm no stranger to rich fux. On the other hand, I've done actual work all my adult life. There's a difference between fair work and getting rich.

The billionaire I worked for can afford the hobby space program I helped start, only because his money CREATING company (as you put it) has hundreds of thousands of people working in demeaning near-slave conditions and being paid much less than the profit they generate. That, or one of various kinds of fraud and trickery, is how most rich people "make" their fortunes. Some of them are less unethical than others (and less rich). But there are few truly good (as in beneficial and ethical) ways to make millions of dollars, and zero good ways to make a billion. No rich person gets be rich without lots of other folks doing the actual work for them while getting paid amounts that will never make them rich.

I won't pretend that the flying Hummer guy is a scoundrel on the level of a tech billionaire. I don't know anything about him. But I know he can throw away more money on his hobby than an honest man can earn, and I know his hobby is inconsiderate of others and polluting. Neither of those things is a good indication.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Ghost Rider » Sep 06 2018 7:13am

Chalo wrote:
Aug 30 2018 2:27am
Hillhater wrote:
Aug 29 2018 10:15pm
..Draco..tech stuff.
Yeah, just the thing for folks who can afford to spend more on a tacky toy than an honest man makes in his entire life.

And for someone who isn't bothered that his transient jollies disturb the peace and quiet of every living thing for miles.

And for someone who doesn't mind that his recreational activity results in over 10 pounds of CO2 per minute-- for hours and hours at a time.

One day soon, the people who think this stuff is okay will all be dead. I hope they don't take the rest of us with them due to a general lack of conscience on their parts.
The vast majority of fossil fuel users are not enthusiasts.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Hillhater » Sep 06 2018 7:49am

Ghost Rider wrote:
Sep 06 2018 7:13am
The vast majority of fossil fuel users are not enthusiasts.
??? "not enthusiasts".... Of what ???
And you do realise that the vast majority of the population are "fossil fuel users" !
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Ghost Rider » Sep 06 2018 8:29am

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 06 2018 7:49am
Ghost Rider wrote:
Sep 06 2018 7:13am
The vast majority of fossil fuel users are not enthusiasts.
??? "not enthusiasts".... Of what ???
And you do realise that the vast majority of the population are "fossil fuel users" !
Yeah, and they are not enthusiasts, that's my point. I'm not arguing with you, I argee with you.

Let's assume just for the sake of the argument that "human activity" contribute to global warming to some degree. Enthusiasts make up a microscopic portion of fossil fuel users. The irony is that the majority of fossil fuel users are not so called "climate deniers".
The greenies are barking up the wrong tree.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by craneplaneguy » Sep 06 2018 9:15am

Unless you're living in a cave and subsiding off local flora and fauna, you are as fossil fueled as the the Draco guy. The extra amount he may use, looked at from a total amount used per day world wide, is so tiny, many MANY times less then the smallest drop in the bucket, it is laughable to get excited about his ruining the planet for others, "being inconsiderate". This is just simple math, read the great book 'The Prize" by Daniel Yergin. It's not pro or anti oil, it just lays out how intertwined modern society is with oil, and how much we use every day. It's scary as hell but a factual look at the situation, and Draco ain't going to matter diddly squat, anymore then me taking a leak in the ocean is going to raise sea levels, just as an example of how whacked out worrying and getting excited about Draco and his owner is going to matter at all. You guys who do, you better move into a cave because EVERYTHING we eat, drink, or use is oil based one way or the other, and you're going to go crazy whining about it. Anyone care to follow the "oil path" of how we get our bike batteries, including mining, transportation, etc. , oil is not going away anytime soon, this from a guy with more renewables experience then most.

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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Ghost Rider » Sep 06 2018 9:18am

craneplaneguy wrote:
Sep 06 2018 9:15am
Unless you're living in a cave and subsiding off local flora and fauna, you are as fossil fueled as the the Draco guy. The extra amount he may use, looked at from a total amount used per day world wide, is so tiny, many MANY times less then the smallest drop in the bucket, it is laughable to get excited about his ruining the planet for others, "being inconsiderate". This is just simple math, read the great book 'The Prize" by Daniel Yergin. It's not pro or anti oil, it just lays out how intertwined modern society is with oil, and how much we use every day. It's scary as hell but a factual look at the situation, and Draco ain't going to matter diddly squat, anymore then me taking a leak in the ocean is going to raise sea levels, just as an example of how whacked out worrying and getting excited about Draco and his owner is going to matter at all. You guys who do, you better move into a cave because EVERYTHING we eat, drink, or use is oil based one way or the other, and you're going to go crazy whining about it. Anyone care to follow the "oil path" of how we get our bike batteries, including mining, transportation, etc. , oil is not going away anytime soon, this from a guy with more renewables experience then most.
Exactly, well said.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Voltron » Sep 06 2018 10:02am

So lets just shrug our shoulders and do nothing while the planet spirals into uninhabitability? The US is the second highest producer of CO2 in the world, and the highest by far per capita, and one of the richest countries in the world. Our actions as citizens of this country have outsized impacts on the world due to our ridiculous overconsumption of the worlds resources. We have the means to do it, the knowledge that it needs to be done, and the money to do it. The choices we make DO have an impact... and claiming that individual actions don't matter is just a copout to avoid accepting being a part of the problem and doing something about it.

One quick number... the average driver in America emits four to six TONS of CO2 out their tailpipe of their car annually. I haven't owned or ridden in a car or bought gas for most of the last 20 years, so my lifestyle choice kept about 250,000 pounds of crap out of the atmosphere, and that is direct effects, not counting the add on effects of the extraction, transporting , refining and the spilling and gassing off of the fossil fuels on the way to the pump, which multiplies that a lot.
So maybe one piss in the sea doesn't seem like much,,, but if you are pissing 6 tons of piss a year, its going to make a difference if you stop.


re. enthusiast, for those not used to hearing it that way, "enthusiast" used to be a mild insult in old English novels esp when used as "mere enthusiast" adding a small level of superiority to the user, implying that once one got a little more worldly experience one would stop getting excited about values and morals and doing the right thing and settle into being blasé about life. It used to be commonly applied to Americans, who USED to be known for their excitement and optimism about taking on big challenges, and their commitment to doing the right thing, even if it meant hard sacrifices, to the bemusement of our European relations.
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Re: Blackfly at Oshkosh

Post by Chalo » Sep 06 2018 11:24am

Voltron wrote:
Sep 06 2018 10:02am
One quick number... the average driver in America emits four to six TONS of CO2 out their tailpipe of their car annually.
For perspective, that flying Hummer chugs out a ton of CO2 in about three hours of flight time.

If we all flew one, we'd already be dead. But hey, since there's only a handful of folks who can even afford to do it, that makes it okay. Right? Some people think so. :(

Also, be a rich fuk with a plane and make so much racket that literally hundreds of thousands of people could hear you at the same time, and that's okay too. Bush planes spend most of their time scooting around otherwise silent places anyway, right? So what's the problem?

Who cares about being considerate and recognizing that we all have to share the place with other people and other living things, anyway? That kind of thinking is for losers. The Sultan of Brunei does sport flying in a 747. Now that's a winner.

Right?
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