Bayliner Conversion

Boats, Jet Skis, Kayaks etc., including hovercrafts
goatman   100 MW

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Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Jun 28 2020 8:48pm

has anyone converted one of these bayliner 2650 explorers yet? theyre like a trawler with a keel, not a planning hull

Image

these boats had an optional 23hp diesel, heres a right up on it

http://www.canadianyachting.ca/boat-rev ... =component

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by Hillhater » Jun 29 2020 1:47am

That looks like the sort of boat you would speed hours cruising rivers and lakes on, rather than the short fast trips you do in smaller planing boats.
I dont see the motor being a problem , but the battery might be....
So longer trips , longer battery range needed..big battery capacity and associated cost.
Guesstimate...
10 kw cruise consumption = 10kWh , at say 8mph,.. or 1+ kWh per mile cruising.
Even Lead cells would be $200-300 per kWh, so say $250 worth of batteries for each mile of range.
How far would you go ?...20 miles ? = $5000 worth of lead ?
..but as it is Lead, you would probably double that !..pukert and all !
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goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Jun 29 2020 12:45pm

I was thinking twin 5000w screws and a 5kw generator, solar panels. might not be enough, probably better to keep main motor and convert a 10/15hp outboard kicker to electric. I linked to a simulator in one of these boat threads, go find it and see

heres a motor kit
https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon ... t-5kw.html

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Jun 30 2020 1:51am


Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by Balmorhea » Jun 30 2020 1:55am

goatman wrote:
Jun 30 2020 1:51am
found these batteries, any good?

https://comoxvalley.craigslist.org/for/ ... 21911.html
Only if you need ballast anyway. If you do, then it could be seen as a twofer.
___________
Finish Reconstruction.

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Jun 30 2020 2:21am

8 batteries is 48v 340ah and 1024lbs 16kwh for $1000

40gallons gas is 280lbs, motor 350lbs, leg 150lbs. 780 total

I was looking for a deal on a used electric forklift to see if theres a quicker way to convert a boat, no deals right now.

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 24 2020 3:04am

i was trying to figure out solar and then from solar i can figure out motor and then battery.
solar i need another 4 feet of roof which means i need to add 4 or 5 feet to the length of the boat so i can still use a fishing rod. ive figured that out, i know how thats happening and i wind up at 30 feet.

using vicprop calculator to reach hull speed of 7 knots/13kmh
12hp/9kw
1200 rpm
68nm/50 ft/lbs

i was looking at 2-48v 500 watt solar panels paralleled for 1000 watts and a 36v/48v motor

but i could series the panels and go up in voltage

i saw this asynchronous induction motor, im assuming its 72v
http://eastgem.net/da-85.html

rated power 3kw peak 9kw
rated speed 3000rpm peak 15000rpm
rated torque 35nm, peak 65nm

all i have to do is go 2to1 reduction and then
3kw at 1500 rpm would be 70nm
am i missing something?????

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by SlowCo » Oct 24 2020 5:52pm

Why not go for the D9000 kit (9kW continuous) on a big boat like that?: http://eastgem.net/d9000-kit.html

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 24 2020 6:49pm

i saw that motor in the kit, i was looking at the shaft of asynchronous, motor bike spline and looks like the shaft on the 270 leg i took off. the legs 2to1. wouldnt be hard to make a coupling

but i also have a 30hp outboard i might be able to convert.
when i look at the data and by reducing to a 2to1 ratio i double my torque

3000watts and 3000rpm gives me more than hull speed with the prop spinning at 1500rpm. its a waste of energy to go faster, id need like 80kw to plane.

im just curious what happens to the 3000 watts? stay the same or does it jump to 6000 watts?

if it stays the same i only need a 5kw motor, not 10kw motor

justins bombing around with 2000 watts and were not far apart on waterline, beam and weight.

my extension is coming back up and curved like a double ender to get rid of the drag from the transom.

prop calculators, i think, are made for diesel and gas. i have the nm i need but not the hp that the diesel would be but does it really matter???

5kw/7hp would give me 40nm at 1200rpm with a speed of 5.89 knots/10.9kmh with a different prop.

the d4500 is 48v to 72v, it would let me use my existing 17s packs and and work better with solar?????

http://eastgem.net/d4500.html

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by Hillhater » Oct 24 2020 11:34pm

[
im just curious what happens to the 3000 watts? stay the same or does it jump to 6000 watts?...
It stays tthe same...less any losses in the gearing of course.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

tai626   1 mW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by tai626 » Oct 26 2020 12:14pm

I am in the process to convert a sailboat with similar size of yours: 26’ with 8’ beam.


Here is some random thoughts as suggestion:

I couldn’t find the displacement of your boat, let use mine instead: 4600lbs.

The hull speed is around: 7knots.

The rule of thumb for the electric power needed is 1500lbs/1HP. So I only need 3HP to reach the hull speed.

You can consider harness the wind power as well. It will take less real states from the boat.

I would focus on the batteries first before thinking of the motor/solar/wind. It is the most expensive part usually.

Check in the EV used batteries: you can often score $100/kWh Lithium batteries. For example:

https://www.techdirectclub.com/48-volts ... lot-of-14/

https://batteryhookup.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQ ... 8EEALw_wcB

Good luck and let us learn from each other!

Tai

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by Hillhater » Oct 26 2020 6:02pm

Tai626... i assume you have read Justins “Shamrock” thread below ?
There is a lot of useful info there also. :bigthumb:
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 26 2020 7:50pm

tai626 wrote:
Oct 26 2020 12:14pm
I am in the process to convert a sailboat with similar size of yours: 26’ with 8’ beam.


Here is some random thoughts as suggestion:

I couldn’t find the displacement of your boat, let use mine instead: 4600lbs.

The hull speed is around: 7knots.

The rule of thumb for the electric power needed is 1500lbs/1HP. So I only need 3HP to reach the hull speed.

You can consider harness the wind power as well. It will take less real states from the boat.

I would focus on the batteries first before thinking of the motor/solar/wind. It is the most expensive part usually.

Check in the EV used batteries: you can often score $100/kWh Lithium batteries. For example:

https://www.techdirectclub.com/48-volts ... lot-of-14/

https://batteryhookup.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQ ... 8EEALw_wcB

Good luck and let us learn from each other!

Tai
yes, if you look at my 30Q test, if im running with batteries and 700 watts of solar then drop anchor and the batteries automatically go from discharge to charge, they dont seem to suffer any noticeable degradation unlike the sony vtc6 and others ive tested. the mnke 26650 doesnt like to cycle for longer than 24hrs or it suffers damage. so ill be doing a motor battery but also 2 house batteries that can be paralleled to the motor battery for cloudy days.
what hillhater said, checkout the Shamrock, im curious to see if the delta wye switch with relays gives better low speed prop torque for around the marina at 600rpm but switch once your out cruising to 1200rpm,

tai626   1 mW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by tai626 » Oct 27 2020 9:01am

I saw the video of electric bike you posted but I don’t think the boat propeller will unload that much as the boat speed up from 3 to 6 knots...

Tai

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 27 2020 9:31am

tai626 wrote:
Oct 27 2020 9:01am
I saw the video of electric bike you posted but I don’t think the boat propeller will unload that much as the boat speed up from 3 to 6 knots...

Tai
on fishing boats they put "trolling valves" on the transmission to reduce pressure and lower the temperature

https://www.sbmar.com/articles/marine-t ... 20slippage.

if i go out fishing at a slow speed without the switch, what does that do to the electric motors temperature and efficiency?

http://www.electromotores.org/PDF/InfoT ... inding.pdf

i dont know, im asking

heres a good video of another person showing the switching back and forth, somethings going on with torque. why switch back to wye unless theres no torque down low in delta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiiNORLzA18

i went youtubing to figure this out and found, the engineering mindset

heres their article, i got the pics from
https://theengineeringmindset.com/star-delta-startes/

heres their video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h89TTwlNnpY

delta

Image

wye/star

Image

does the tripling of amps in delta triple the torque on the shaft?

tai626   1 mW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by tai626 » Oct 27 2020 7:22pm

Boat doesn’t need gear, I would say.
The water resistance is the best torque conversion. You do need the minimum rpm to match the propeller.

The trolling speed is done by speed controller, no extra torque needed at low speed.

Tai

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 27 2020 10:51pm

theres a difference, i just dont know what it is

wye and delta provide same power but its different voltage and amps to get there

is it more efficient to go slow in wye like when trolling

do you get triple the nm of torque in delta

if it triples the nm torque i can use the 4040 TA from grin

i look at the asynchronous motor from east gem, i can get the nm but its such a small motor, seems like vaporware and they dont answer emails

Golden Motors has 5kw and 10kw bldc air and watercooled motors but the spec sheet/curve shows only 24nm of torque

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by Hillhater » Oct 27 2020 11:49pm

The Delta connection will give 70% higher rpm’s than star ?
...all other things being equal
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goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 28 2020 12:25am

im trying to make sense of this thread but i really dont know what im reading

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=103945&p=1519605&h ... e#p1523056

tai626   1 mW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by tai626 » Oct 28 2020 12:51am

A 23HP diesel engine has ~50nm of max torque.
23nm for a 10kW motor is not bad. All depend on the reduction and propeller, I think.

Tai

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 28 2020 10:12am

i use vicprop calculator and it tells me the prop i need and the hp and torque required to spin the prop at whatever rpm you enter

https://vicprop.com/free-propeller-sizing-calculators?


Image

Image

Image

Image

from that i need 13hp/50ft/lbs diesel motor
or 10kw 70nm electric motor

in the outlaw erider video he showed delta consumption at 90km/h was 100 amps into a leaf motor

i run 17s/60v packs. 10kw at 60v is 166amps into a 4040 ta sounds do-able at 19rpm/v
i already have 17s8p of 25r and 2 phaserunners, its not a big expense to give it a try.
if it works

6.67kn/12km/h/166ah/10kw
mnke 26650 17s30p is $3100 cad for 150ah/9kw house battery
add 2-10amp solar panels in series for 600 watts
17s16p 25r 2kw motor battery $1500 cad
motor $1000 not sure what controller
the shamrock was using 250wh/km?
Last edited by goatman on Oct 28 2020 11:26am, edited 1 time in total.

tai626   1 mW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by tai626 » Oct 28 2020 11:11am

The reason you are getting 3x my number is because You are using Diesel engine concept to estimate the electric motor...

Here is the Uma sailboat:

“So a 1hp electric motor, drawing 750W, can push about 1500 pounds of displacement.“

Very good reading.

https://www.sailinguma.com/the-motor

Tai

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 28 2020 11:52am

from that article
1hp gas/diesel can push 500lbs
electric can push 3x the weight
1hp elecric=750 watt can push 1500lbs
5hp electric/4500watt can push 7500lbs

with a 6kw motor, 48v/50amps/2000watts they push 13500lbs at 4.7knot speed

i look at nm for prop , right now the only thing i can do is try the diesel prop and see if it overheats the electric motor, thats why im trying to figure out the nm of electric motors

tai626   1 mW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by tai626 » Oct 28 2020 1:01pm

Check the rpm that your propeller need and find the motor with the KV that match the voltage of your batteries (48V, usually)

The beauty of hub motor is the high torque low kv otherwise you will need the reduction gear.

The relationship of power vs torque vs rpm

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_te ... torque.htm

Tai

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Bayliner Conversion

Post by goatman » Oct 28 2020 2:08pm

thats why grin technologies rewired their motor from wye to delta to go from 10rpm/v to 20rpm/v and jumped up to 72v

17s/60v with a 4040ta in delta is 19rpm= 1140rpm

4500watts for burst but to cruise ill only need 2000 to 3000 watts and to troll probably 600 watts, might be able to just heat sink the phaserunner to a sea water pipe/heat exchanger. heat exchanger only need to be a pipe from a couple thru-hulls, no pump required.

i use a phaserunner on my 3540 at 60v/3500 watts and it works. thats 50amps

electrobeke is 48v 50amps/2000watts pushing twice my weight. 6500 compared to 13500

looks like it will work
Im just surprised there isnt a formula
pretty much have to, just do it i guess

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