Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by justin_le » Mar 31 2021 5:26am

PS, we finally finished editing the video from last fall showing the boat running at 72V earlier this week


I'll have pics and details to share soon with a new ASI BAC2000 motor controller installed that will let us run up to the 5000 watt power levels, and hope to do water tests on that in the week ahead!
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
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cheapcookie   100 W

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by cheapcookie » Apr 01 2021 4:30am

Thank you for your answer Justin all the best with the new shop.

Check this out, https://www.pogostructures.com/en/fiche ... -electric/

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by justin_le » Apr 01 2021 8:15pm

Oh nice, I like that they provide pretty meaningful consumption statistics. In this case it's a 1800kg boat and with enough motor power to get on a plane. Here's what I extrapolate for their wh/km consumption data as a function of boat speed:
Loxo 32 Stats.jpg
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I managed to get our sailboat running at 5kW yesterday and it reached 11 kph, corresponding to 450 wh/km consumption.

I'm not sure how far most powerboat cruisers want to go on a trip but I think that even the 50kWhr battery here would limit the appeal. 80-100 kWhr seems a little more appropriate for cruising autonomy when you don't have a sail.
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

Voltron   1 GW

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Voltron » Apr 02 2021 11:47am

Great progress! :thumb:

Just an fyi tho for those going down the eboat route, esp for a commercial project, ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) code doesn't like more than 50 volts without lots of special safety requirements.

And re. the low average around the world speed, that seems not unreasonable factoring in driving all night on battery, long stretches of headwinds and bad sea states out in open ocean, preserving the structure for the whole trip etc? It's meant to be mostly a tech demonstrator, so they really didn't want it to break halfway thru publicity-wise. I could def see trans ocean solar racing being a thing though!

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Bullfrog » Apr 02 2021 2:05pm

Voltron wrote:
Apr 02 2021 11:47am
Great progress! :thumb:

Just an fyi tho for those going down the eboat route, esp for a commercial project, ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) code doesn't like more than 50 volts without lots of special safety requirements.

And re. the low average around the world speed, that seems not unreasonable factoring in driving all night on battery, long stretches of headwinds and bad sea states out in open ocean, preserving the structure for the whole trip etc? It's meant to be mostly a tech demonstrator, so they really didn't want it to break halfway thru publicity-wise. I could def see trans ocean solar racing being a thing though!
I believe it is 60v as opposed to 50v. You probably just missed the "6" and hit the "5" key I am guessing :D .

11.2.2 direct current (DC) electrical systems on boats operating at 60 volts nominal or less.

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Hillhater » May 11 2021 6:22pm

Voltron wrote:
Apr 02 2021 11:47am
....... I could def see trans ocean solar racing being a thing though!
Until battery tech/ (energy density)..”tx Ocean Solar” will be little more than a demo exercise for the rich.
I suspect Wind will remain the dominant fuel for ocean racing for a long time yet.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Nils » May 24 2021 2:28pm

justin_le wrote:
Mar 31 2021 5:26am
I'll have pics and details to share soon with a new ASI BAC2000 motor controller installed that will let us run up to the 5000 watt power levels, and hope to do water tests on that in the week ahead!
This is an awesome project. I'd love to see an explanation/diagram for how you are interfacing the ASI controller with the cycle analyst and hub motor. A quick word on tuning/programming would be great too!

I've worked with some of the commercial electric outboard offerings out there (torqeedo, elco, stealth) and haven't been all that impressed with the durability-cost balance. I have a BAC 2000 from another project that I would like pair with a CA to retrofit onto an existing defunct electric outboard. But it would be great to see a what you've done before diving into it.

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Voltron » May 29 2021 12:33pm

Bullfrog wrote:
Apr 02 2021 2:05pm
Voltron wrote:
Apr 02 2021 11:47am
Great progress! :thumb:

Just an fyi tho for those going down the eboat route, esp for a commercial project, ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) code doesn't like more than 50 volts without lots of special safety requirements.

And re. the low average around the world speed, that seems not unreasonable factoring in driving all night on battery, long stretches of headwinds and bad sea states out in open ocean, preserving the structure for the whole trip etc? It's meant to be mostly a tech demonstrator, so they really didn't want it to break halfway thru publicity-wise. I could def see trans ocean solar racing being a thing though!
I believe it is 60v as opposed to 50v. You probably just missed the "6" and hit the "5" key I am guessing :D .

11.2.2 direct current (DC) electrical systems on boats operating at 60 volts nominal or less.
Not sure, but I think they modified the standards with the increase of electric drives, so, yes, I think they went to 60v isolated to just the drive, and 50v still for the regular electric?

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Voltron » May 29 2021 12:41pm

Hillhater wrote:
May 11 2021 6:22pm
Voltron wrote:
Apr 02 2021 11:47am
....... I could def see trans ocean solar racing being a thing though!
Until battery tech/ (energy density)..”tx Ocean Solar” will be little more than a demo exercise for the rich.
I suspect Wind will remain the dominant fuel for ocean racing for a long time yet.
Sorry, slightly off topic, but heres another solar electric tech demonstrator. They make so much electric, they run reverse osmosis to get fresh water from ocean water, then crack it and store the hydrogen, and run fuel cells.
The stat I saw was it would require 14 tons of batteries to match the energy storage of the hydrogen.
The raisable fabric sails produce about half the drive on windy days, but they can motor for a really long time also just on stored energy.
ENERGY_OBSERVER.jpg
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JackFlorey   100 kW

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by JackFlorey » May 29 2021 1:03pm

Hillhater wrote:
May 11 2021 6:22pm
Until battery tech/ (energy density)..”tx Ocean Solar” will be little more than a demo exercise for the rich.
I suspect Wind will remain the dominant fuel for ocean racing for a long time yet.
Agreed. Solar will provide motive power for windless days and for house loads, but most of the energy will come from wind.

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Hillhater » May 29 2021 11:59pm

Voltron wrote:
May 29 2021 12:41pm
Hillhater wrote:
May 11 2021 6:22pm
Voltron wrote:
Apr 02 2021 11:47am
....... I could def see trans ocean solar racing being a thing though!
Until battery tech/ (energy density)..”tx Ocean Solar” will be little more than a demo exercise for the rich.
I suspect Wind will remain the dominant fuel for ocean racing for a long time yet.
Sorry, slightly off topic, but heres another solar electric tech demonstrator. They make so much electric, they run reverse osmosis to get fresh water from ocean water, then crack it and store the hydrogen, and run fuel cells.
The stat I saw was it would require 14 tons of batteries to match the energy storage of the hydrogen.
The raisable fabric sails produce about half the drive on windy days, but they can motor for a really long time also just on stored energy.
They may be able to store a decent amount of Hydrogen (63kg), but they are very limited on how much they can produce with the onboard electrolyser system.
They have a max of 21kW of Solar ...notoriously inefficient laid on a boat...likely produces less than 100kWh on a good day.
That is not enough to crack even 2 kg of H2 ig noring the RO and Compression power loads !
..and of course whilst they are making H2 , they wont be charging batteries either.
Have you seen any feedback data on how it is all working ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Voltron » May 30 2021 1:01am

I just heard about that boat a couple of weeks ago, but it's gone around the world a couple of times, soooo......

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Hillhater » May 30 2021 7:42am

Voltron wrote:
May 30 2021 1:01am
I just heard about that boat a couple of weeks ago, but it's gone around the world a couple of times, soooo......
Sooooo... thousands of boats have gone around the world... ( and without stopping too) ..using nothing but wind power !
... but i would like to know how much of the Energy Observer’s trip was made using Wind, battery, and H2.
Also how much of the hydrogen was actually produced on board rather than recharged when in dock ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Shamrock, 25 foot sailboat electric conversion with an ebike hub motor

Post by Voltron » May 30 2021 10:00am

I kinda want to stop derailing Justin's thread, I'm sure the info is out there if you're really interested.

Ok, one last fun fact, speaking of around the world by sail... It's built on the hulls on the former ENZA (Eat New Zealand Apples), which set the around the world record and captured the Jules Verne trophy as first sailboat to go around the world in under 80 days.

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