Power winch for wake-boarding

Boats, Jet Skis, Kayaks etc., including hovercrafts
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Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Oct 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Hey Guys,

For those of you who do not know me on this particular forum, I am into high end E-bike drive systems. You can check out my builds in the non-hub motor e-bike section.

This project began as an OEM product development project for a client. It was a lucrative project. However, that was a while back and after building and testing his winch my 13 year old son insisted I build another one for us to use. So, this is my personal winch.

The design perameters from the client were;

#1 Deep water starts pulling up a slalom skier.
#2 30mph top pulling speed.
#3 Under 20 pound weight.
#4 "Suit-case" size.
#5 Must be reliable and very efficient to maximize how many runs could be achieved per KWH of charge.
#6 Changeable gear ratios to test various speeds and the resulting torque changes with those ratio changes.

You can see the winch is very compact. Most wake-board winches are the size of a wheel barrow. My 13 year old son is pictured holding the winch. It is 7 inches wide, 15 inches long, and 8 inches high. The tow rope is a 500 foot long, 3mm spectra fiber cord with a 1,500 pound limit.

The motor is an Astro Flight 3220 motor custom built to my specs with fan cooling. The controller will be a Castle Creations Edge 160 controlled by an RC car pistol grip transmitter. The pack will be 12S-20ah multi-star 10C pack. That pack should be good for 60 runs minimum.

I have already built the identical winch and tested it by pulling myself (180 pounds) across grass at 26 mph. The client has pulled up 200 pound men from a deep water start in a slalom ski. Needless to say, it has a LOT of power. The winch uses a mechanical torque limiter (slipper clutch) to protect the system from over-torquing.

I will post more pictures as I have them. :D

Oh, ignore the date on the pictures. This camera insists on resetting the date every time I recharge it. :wink:

Matt
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by LightningRods » Oct 01, 2016 5:29 pm

A comely winch. :D
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Oct 01, 2016 5:40 pm

LightningRods wrote:A comely winch. :D
Not enough cleavage showing for that title. :mrgreen:

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 01, 2016 5:50 pm

Thats bad ass Matt! Nice job!
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Oct 01, 2016 7:05 pm

Nice work! How did you do the big side plates? Did you make those yourself or farm it out to a shop?

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Oct 01, 2016 7:33 pm

Okuma CNC. :mrgreen:

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by macribs » Oct 05, 2016 9:17 pm

We need videos Matt, I would love to see this winch in action.

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Oct 06, 2016 4:05 pm

I will post videos when I have them. I have a couple videos of the first winch I build for the client. But, that footage is proprietary to him. So, I will take new footage of this winch when I have it.

I plan on mounting all the operating equipment for this (batteries, controller, receiver, etc) in a weather resistant box directly mounted to the side of the winch. There will be a sturdy handle on top so, the entire 30 to 35 pound assembly will be carried as a unit.

The primary purpose for this winch is to pull people accross a 3 acre park behind my house on a sled in the winter. There is only one decent sledding hill around us and it is a bit of a drive to get to. This way we have our own private "Hill" where-ever we want. :mrgreen:

The beauty of this is that the pull of each person is controlled by a transmitter and can be sped up or slowed down at will (or stopped). That is not an option with a hill. Also, there will be no walking up the hill, just walking across level ground to start again.

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by macribs » Oct 06, 2016 4:39 pm

What kind of speed did your client get on that thing? Enough to get some air on the waves if used in the ocean?
I only seen one of these things live, and that was not very impressive as it was really slow and with a short spool.

Your version could even be fitted on the back of a truck and used all over, in lakes, rivers and in the ocean.
And as fast as those 32xx spins there should be both torque and speed to pull at least one grown man or even two or three young ones at a once on wakeboard.

I think you need to branch out and do more then just bikes, would be amazing for people with a pond or a lake near by or even on their estate, much easier for people to buy into then going for the full cable pulleys with em big towers. Those are too complex and costly for ordinary people. Your version could be a nice way to get introduced to wakeboarding without the need for boat, a boat trailer, expensive motors not to mention fuel for those thirsty v8's.

When do we see the first davinci drive all electric powered wake board?


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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Oct 06, 2016 8:52 pm

macribs wrote:What kind of speed did your client get on that thing? Enough to get some air on the waves if used in the ocean?
I only seen one of these things live, and that was not very impressive as it was really slow and with a short spool.

Your version could even be fitted on the back of a truck and used all over, in lakes, rivers and in the ocean.
And as fast as those 32xx spins there should be both torque and speed to pull at least one grown man or even two or three young ones at a once on wakeboard.

I think you need to branch out and do more then just bikes, would be amazing for people with a pond or a lake near by or even on their estate, much easier for people to buy into then going for the full cable pulleys with em big towers. Those are too complex and costly for ordinary people. Your version could be a nice way to get introduced to wakeboarding without the need for boat, a boat trailer, expensive motors not to mention fuel for those thirsty v8's.

When do we see the first davinci drive all electric powered wake board?

The winch pulls at 30mph.

I also installed a 3220 in a jet surf wake board for this same client. We achieved 26 mph reliably. Pushing for 30 fried the motor. I have this $15,000 carbon fiber wake board in my shop and the client has not returned my texts about picking it up. If I still have it by next summer, twin 3220s are going in. :mrgreen:

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by Bazaki » Oct 09, 2016 2:28 am

Looks very nice and compact. Great.





I have made several winches. This last version is very compact. Even the batteries are inside.

Works perfectly

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Oct 09, 2016 7:54 am

I saw pictures of your which when I began building my first version last year. I love the used of a hub motor as both the motor and the cord drum.

My client tried the same setup. It worked great for him. He wanted even smaller and lighter. That is why he contacted me. The hub motor is a great foundation for a winch, though. :mrgreen:

Matt
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by dirkdiggler » Oct 10, 2016 11:37 pm

Where did you see pics of Bazaki's build? Is there a thread? Winter is almost here and I wanted to make one for the snow. I tried a few back to get a motor version hooked up, but bought a boat instead. :P The idea of using a remote to self control the speed is awesome. I've got a spare hub and a few ESC's that might work. I remember back in the day looking up all the parts, but what is the best rope to use? I guess also need to find a good winch feeder. Any recommendations would be appreciated - I'd like to but one out some weekend. Going to california for a surf trip in a week, might be sweet to take it with me!

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by treloid » Nov 10, 2016 10:25 am

recumpence wrote:I saw pictures of your which when I began building my first version last year. I love the used of a hub motor as both the motor and the cord drum.

My client tried the same setup. It worked great for him. He wanted even smaller and lighter. That is why he contacted me. The hub motor is a great foundation for a winch, though. :mrgreen:

Matt
Hi Matt

I'm currently planning a new winch which should be electric since the one i made from a 125ccm Scooter is broken now. What do you think of those parts? Do you think it will work to do deepwater starts with either wakeboards or surfboards ? (More likely surfboards)

We're currently surfing in a river with a low flow value.

Motor:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rot ... motor.html

ESC:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-mon ... s-esc.html

Batteries:

Haven't decided yet if i go for Li-On or Lipo's... But it will be a 10 S pack i think.


Thanks for your opinion! And everybody elses too! :D

Simon

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Nov 10, 2016 6:44 pm

treloid wrote:
recumpence wrote:I saw pictures of your which when I began building my first version last year. I love the used of a hub motor as both the motor and the cord drum.

My client tried the same setup. It worked great for him. He wanted even smaller and lighter. That is why he contacted me. The hub motor is a great foundation for a winch, though. :mrgreen:

Matt
Hi Matt

I'm currently planning a new winch which should be electric since the one i made from a 125ccm Scooter is broken now. What do you think of those parts? Do you think it will work to do deepwater starts with either wakeboards or surfboards ? (More likely surfboards)

We're currently surfing in a river with a low flow value.

Motor:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rot ... motor.html

ESC:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-mon ... s-esc.html

Batteries:

Haven't decided yet if i go for Li-On or Lipo's... But it will be a 10 S pack i think.


Thanks for your opinion! And everybody elses too! :D

Simon
The motor should be fine. I am only comfortable with Castle Creations controllers. The rest tend to have trouble starting up powerfully.
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Nov 19, 2016 5:51 pm

Some progress to report.....

The belt guard is done as is the battery mount cage. All I have left to do is fabricate the lower stabilization feet, weather proof the pack, fabricate a carrying handle, and wire it. Current weight is 28.4 pounds. Should be right at 30 pounds when it is finished. Not light, but that is complete including 12s-20ah pack. It should have enough battery for hours of use.

Should be running in time to pull my son in the snow!

Matt
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by Ykick » Nov 19, 2016 5:57 pm

Beautiful work! 'Bet using it is a ton of fun too...
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Nov 19, 2016 6:05 pm

Ykick wrote:Beautiful work! 'Bet using it is a ton of fun too...
It is really alot of fun. You do not even need someone to operate it for you. In the snow, you attach the pull cord directly to the sled and hold the RC pistol grip transmitter in your hand and control the winch from the sled. It is tons of fun. Of course, when I am pulling my son, I control the power myself while he rides. :mrgreen:

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by Bazaki » Nov 20, 2016 2:37 am

Very nice !! How easy does it unwind ? Can you swim it off ?

Do you have a safety switch ? I always had a big off switch. Probably we would have been too late but at least we had something, I'm always care full with safety, there is so much power at that thin line. If someone or something gets struggled in the line, and for some reason (maybe water) the throttle will keep on going an accident can happen. I also used a small switch at the esc signal wire, but when disconnected throttle will stay on for a full 1 or 2 seconds.

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Nov 20, 2016 7:33 am

Bazaki wrote:Very nice !! How easy does it unwind ? Can you swim it off ?

Do you have a safety switch ? I always had a big off switch. Probably we would have been too late but at least we had something, I'm always care full with safety, there is so much power at that thin line. If someone or something gets struggled in the line, and for some reason (maybe water) the throttle will keep on going an accident can happen. I also used a small switch at the esc signal wire, but when disconnected throttle will stay on for a full 1 or 2 seconds.
Safety is the reason you should never use something like this completely alone. On this build I may or may not install a kill switch. If I don't, I will make sure the power connector is right there to pull of need be. Also, this winch has a mechanical torque limiter that will slip if the cord gets tangled badly or if the cord gets stuck (very deep snow, or some other issue). I doubt this particular winch will ever get used in the water. The line pulls relatively easy enough. I know the first winch I built like this was used for deep water starts. So, I would assue it can be pulled while swimming.

Actually, the likely use of this winch will be pulling my son UP the big snow hill we have, then he can sled back down while dragging the cord and I can winch him back up again. Endless lazy-man sledding! :mrgreen:

Matt
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Nov 26, 2016 1:17 pm

The winch is nearly finished. All wiring is done and I fabricated a carrying handle. All that is left to finish is stabilizing legs and a simple weather resistant box to protect the winch from snow when used in the winter. Beyond that I just need to wind the cord onto the drum. Oh, the final details of the winch will not be made for another week or so because I am waiting on a new transmitter and receiver. The RC system I have here is faulty.

I must say it is looking like quite a clean cube. Hmm, "Power Cube"? :mrgreen:

Matt
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by Monstarr » Nov 30, 2016 5:31 am

I am following this build for a while now. First of all I would like to say, excellent work! It looks really well.

As an highly interested lurker I do have two questions:

- How do you prevent snow entering the enclosed box when you are winching up again? The wire will be wet or has snow on it no matter what wire you are going to use. At high speed it will get sprayed all across the inside of the box causing waterdamage to motor bearings/electronics or possible slippery timing belt on small pulley side.
- When sleding down the hill, will you disconnect the motor? Otherwise how do you handle the regen power?

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by recumpence » Nov 30, 2016 8:04 am

Monstarr wrote:I am following this build for a while now. First of all I would like to say, excellent work! It looks really well.

As an highly interested lurker I do have two questions:

- How do you prevent snow entering the enclosed box when you are winching up again? The wire will be wet or has snow on it no matter what wire you are going to use. At high speed it will get sprayed all across the inside of the box causing waterdamage to motor bearings/electronics or possible slippery timing belt on small pulley side.
- When sleding down the hill, will you disconnect the motor? Otherwise how do you handle the regen power?
Good questions.

First, believe it or not, there is nearly zero snow or water that slings from the cord. These Spectra fiber cords are very slick and do not carry moisture. Also, the tiny bit of moisture they carry only touches the motor can. Everything else stays totally dry. The motor is water proof and a tiny bit of moisture actually helps cool the motor.

The regen is an interesting thing. In a water application the cord is pulled slowly. I have no idea what sledding down a hill pulling the cord would do. I plan on calling Castle Creations to ask their opinion before I test that.

Matt
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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by treloid » Nov 30, 2016 10:46 am

Beautiful work Mat! :D I'd like the lazy man sledding aspect of your project! :mrgreen:

Actually the braking power only by ESC braking would be interesting... Because if you are surfing on a river like we do, you defenitely need a brake to tension the rope. Normally you have a diskbrake for this, and i believe the motor will get pretty hot if you try to stopp a surfer in the flow in the river only by ESC braking. Maybe you can test this for us ? :)


Again awesome project it looks so clean and nice built. :D

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Re: Power winch for wake-boarding

Post by Voltron » Nov 30, 2016 11:23 am

You could market that to flat land hang gliding and paragliding operations... they would be salivating over that with the portability. How many feet of line will it hold?

It would beat the crap out of the normal setup...
SteveOnScooter.jpg
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If you look close you can see the towline running out under where the front wheel was, and it runs thru a pulley anchored out in the field and back to the pilot to let the scooter operator be nearby.

On a really good day I've done a tow to 500 feet and dropped the line, then thermal-ed up to 9000 feet in flatland Fla. so it doesn't take a lot of initial altitude...

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