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Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 13, 2017 3:04 am
by kiter_UK
Looks great. Good luck.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 13, 2017 3:37 am
by Jezza
Hiorth wrote:Going foiling (hopefully) tomorrow. We have never foiled before, so it will be interesting, but we have some experience with water sports, so I guess it will work out.
Will start with the next version (V2), a 18650 battery pack and counter-rotating propellers (for fun) next week. Would be glad if somebody have inputs on a cheap (and good) battery-cell supplier.
More photos/video:
https://www.facebook.com/nikolai.hiorth ... nref=story
Looking great! Nylon is rather terrible to bond with anything! Are you not worried it might come loose?

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 13, 2017 5:22 am
by Hiorth
The nylon sls surface is great to bond with epoxy and proper gluing technique. Not afraid :) more afraid of the aluminium Bonding

Tested it today it worked great!!! Could run with 8 cells no prob :) will post more videos soon

12s was way too much power:p

More video will come soon!
facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10159438659855144&type=1&l=2e97c1f9fb

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 13, 2017 6:08 am
by Gege2000
Amazing and fast job! Bravo!

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 13, 2017 11:57 am
by Jezza
Hiorth wrote:The nylon sls surface is great to bond with epoxy and proper gluing technique. Not afraid :) more afraid of the aluminium Bonding

Tested it today it worked great!!! Could run with 8 cells no prob :) will post more videos soon

12s was way too much power:p

More video will come soon!
facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10159438659855144&type=1&l=2e97c1f9fb
Well done! So awesome!
I have found someone that's going to help me with a CNC so I will have my aluminium version soon. Super happy 8S works as I have 10mAH 8s just waiting for mine to be done!

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 13, 2017 3:36 pm
by kiter_UK
Very well done guys. Impressive.

PS. More food for foil thought. "Canard" foil set up looks like a good idea to me for powered foils. Main foil at rear, stabilizer at front giving positive lift rather than negative. Means positive lift on both foils (so less thrust required for take off) and less front foot pressure. Check out Zeeko Spitfire.

https://youtu.be/8txcVLVIMNg

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 1:40 am
by Jezza
Hiorth wrote: Tested it today it worked great!!! Could run with 8 cells no prob :)
How much current did you pull with 8 cells?

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 1:51 am
by Hiorth
Jezza wrote:
Hiorth wrote: Tested it today it worked great!!! Could run with 8 cells no prob :)
How much current did you pull with 8 cells?
We did not measure it... the instrument we ordered turned out to be for AC power so we just skipped it.

The last video on our Facebook album is with 8s (it worked for riders =65 and 70 kilos. I (85kg) did not try with 8s ). But I still think the prop and duct can be optimized further.

Will share all 3d files on instructables this week, if you want duct and prop drawings.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 2:00 am
by Clarin
Congrats for your maiden flight!
Could you share the video outside of Facebook, please. I am dying to see them

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 2:10 am
by Hiorth
Clarin wrote:Congrats for your maiden flight!
Could you share the video outside of Facebook, please. I am dying to see them
Will edit a short video of the build and riding and post it on youtube and facebook tonight. Will test again today, only have 10min of battery and 4 guys testing so not much time to learn. Hehe. Have to build a larger pack soon.

But I think you should be able to see the videos on facebook? They are supposed to be public.

Cheers
Nikolai

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 4:22 am
by nanni
Clarin wrote:Congrats for your maiden flight!
Could you share the video outside of Facebook, please. I am dying to see them
Go to this link https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 2e97c1f9fb click on any photo and then slide the photos right or left, you will see all the photos of the building and all the short videos. Sorry for my bad English

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 6:52 am
by staska
http://flyingfishhydrofoil.com/ good idea on propeller drive

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 10:36 am
by kiter_UK
Below seems like the right sort of gearbox spec to me - you never know with second hand parts of course. I have given it a go as only 60 Euro (accepted offer).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEUGART-PLE-4 ... SwOAZZhdZ6

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 10:45 am
by waterfox
That is the gearbox I'm using with 500kV 12S. Just note it has a much lower torque rating than the 5:1

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 12:17 pm
by Jezza
kiter_UK wrote:Below seems like the right sort of gearbox spec to me - you never know with second hand parts of course. I have given it a go as only 60 Euro (accepted offer).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEUGART-PLE-4 ... SwOAZZhdZ6
That's a very good price! You'll have enough torque with that easily!

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 4:26 pm
by staska
Sorry to be on sarcastic size. But 40 sised gearbox is good till 16-20 kg of thrust https://www.neugart.com/de-de/produkte/ ... ple/#PLE40

Any decent 2hp/1.5kw outboard gives you about 50 kg of thrust.. More on zero speed. Or 55lbs per hp.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 4:55 pm
by kiter_UK
Isn't this for 20,000 hrs running life? I probably have my rose-tinted reading specs on again!

Wider units, capable of sustaining higher torques, will create substantially more drag won't they?

Anyway, 60 euro to find out!

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 5:05 pm
by staska
kiter_UK wrote:Isn't this for 20,000 hrs running life? I probably have my rose-tinted reading specs on again!

Wider units, capable of sustaining higher torques, will create substantially more drag won't they?

Anyway, 60 euro to find out!
It is always possible to add aditional bearing for axial load. You will be making a new axle for seal, so make it with thrust bearing, and it will last. Additional 5-7 cm. They are rated with some safety factor. But not more thatn 2-3. Plus god lubraction and proper oil.

Anyway. Found info on one 2hp outboard. Gearbox have two straigth cut bevel gears module 1.5 12/22 teeth. 22 on propshaft.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 5:48 pm
by Hiorth
staska wrote:
kiter_UK wrote:Isn't this for 20,000 hrs running life? I probably have my rose-tinted reading specs on again!

Wider units, capable of sustaining higher torques, will create substantially more drag won't they?

Anyway, 60 euro to find out!
It is always possible to add aditional bearing for axial load. You will be making a new axle for seal, so make it with thrust bearing, and it will last. Additional 5-7 cm. They are rated with some safety factor. But not more thatn 2-3. Plus god lubraction and proper oil.

Anyway. Found info on one 2hp outboard. Gearbox have two straigth cut bevel gears module 1.5 12/22 teeth. 22 on propshaft.

We used this http://no.rs-online.com/web/p/roller-bearings/1988850/ in combination with a shaft coupler. It builds only 4mm and works great!

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 14, 2017 5:55 pm
by kiter_UK
Neat!

Thanks both.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 15, 2017 3:46 am
by staska
Hiorth wrote:
staska wrote:
kiter_UK wrote:Isn't this for 20,000 hrs running life? I probably have my rose-tinted reading specs on again!

Wider units, capable of sustaining higher torques, will create substantially more drag won't they?

Anyway, 60 euro to find out!
It is always possible to add aditional bearing for axial load. You will be making a new axle for seal, so make it with thrust bearing, and it will last. Additional 5-7 cm. They are rated with some safety factor. But not more thatn 2-3. Plus god lubraction and proper oil.

Anyway. Found info on one 2hp outboard. Gearbox have two straigth cut bevel gears module 1.5 12/22 teeth. 22 on propshaft.

We used this http://no.rs-online.com/web/p/roller-bearings/1988850/ in combination with a shaft coupler. It builds only 4mm and works great!
You still need kind of prop saver to avoid any problems with debris /prop inbalance. Twin tapered bearing are bullet proof but bigger.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 15, 2017 5:50 am
by Hiorth
staska wrote:
Hiorth wrote:
staska wrote:
kiter_UK wrote:Isn't this for 20,000 hrs running life? I probably have my rose-tinted reading specs on again!

Wider units, capable of sustaining higher torques, will create substantially more drag won't they?

Anyway, 60 euro to find out!
It is always possible to add aditional bearing for axial load. You will be making a new axle for seal, so make it with thrust bearing, and it will last. Additional 5-7 cm. They are rated with some safety factor. But not more thatn 2-3. Plus god lubraction and proper oil.

Anyway. Found info on one 2hp outboard. Gearbox have two straigth cut bevel gears module 1.5 12/22 teeth. 22 on propshaft.

We used this http://no.rs-online.com/web/p/roller-bearings/1988850/ in combination with a shaft coupler. It builds only 4mm and works great!
You still need kind of prop saver to avoid any problems with debris /prop inbalance. Twin tapered bearing are bullet proof but bigger.
You can use thrust bearing combined with a regular ballbearing on the shaft closer to the propeller. I think it will take less space. The PLE/parker gearhead setup has a short shaft before its connected to the propeller shaft, which makes little room for a large bearings.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 15, 2017 6:25 am
by beonwater
Hiorth wrote:The nylon sls surface is great to bond with epoxy and proper gluing technique. Not afraid :) more afraid of the aluminium Bonding

Tested it today it worked great!!! Could run with 8 cells no prob :) will post more videos soon

12s was way too much power:p

More video will come soon!
facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10159438659855144&type=1&l=2e97c1f9fb
Congratulations! Really nice setup.

In what way is 12S to much? Would not that be adjustable by the trottle?

It would be interesting if you could change the angle of the backwing to keep the hydrofoil down a bit as the prop trying pushing the hydrofoil up. Then you´re able to gain more speed and maybe feel more stable before lift of.

Do you use a 8mm to 10mm coupler for propeller shaft? What shaft seal did you use?

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 15, 2017 6:29 am
by Hiorth
So we have the board up and running, and it works nicely. Will post a detailed instruction with all cad files, part lists etc on Instructables.com this week, if anybody want some inspiration or propeller design that works you should check it out. Will post a link here, once it is up.

We will start on our V2 soon.

Action points:
- Smooth aluminum thruster casing, that can be fully disassembled
- Big Battery pack! probably 2x 48v 530 Wh + battery box for the board
- New ESC with more cooling, aluminium heatsink probably
- Arduino based bluetooth hand controller with launch control and built in battery display + safety features
- Accelerometer and other type of sensors to give feedback to the Arduino to ease operation (and for servo stabilizer)
- Safety features--> controller in water should deactivate the throttle and stop the propeller, Leash that cuts the power if released and proximity "leash" that cuts power when controller is out of range (3-5m).
-Build Foil from scratch, will add more lift to the foil wing than the Nobile wing and make it A lot lighter!!.
- Build a better and lighter Board from scratch

For fun
-Try to build co-axial propellers
- Try to build servo rodder that stabilizer the foil like a "segway", so its super easy to ride for anyone

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Posted: Aug 15, 2017 6:45 am
by Hiorth
beonwater wrote:
Hiorth wrote:The nylon sls surface is great to bond with epoxy and proper gluing technique. Not afraid :) more afraid of the aluminium Bonding

Tested it today it worked great!!! Could run with 8 cells no prob :) will post more videos soon

12s was way too much power:p

More video will come soon!
facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10159438659855144&type=1&l=2e97c1f9fb
Congratulations! Really nice setup.

In what way is 12S to much? Would not that be adjustable by the trottle?

It would be interesting if you could change the angle of the backwing to keep the hydrofoil down a bit as the prop trying pushing the hydrofoil up. Then you´re able to gain more speed and maybe feel more stable before lift of.

Do you use a 8mm to 10mm coupler for propeller shaft? What shaft seal did you use?
Thanks :) turned out to work quite well.

We only used 1/2-2/3 throttle with our 12S pack and a 75kg riders could easily run with only a 8s Pack. But We have changed our minds, will go for 13S with the big battery (which is easily available, from e-bikes) to get really high top speeds :D :D :D

Will try to angle the entire mast (at the attachment point to the board) so the board can be more level when producing lift. Will also try to angle the back wing as you are suggesting, with a washer or something. In the future we will build our own foil from scratch, with more lift (as the board and rider is much heavier compared to a kiter on his board due to upward pull of the kite and batterypack).

We used this type of shaft seal http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/seals-o-rings/8289223/ one with 26x10x7 and 20x10x6. they are rated for 0.5bar so we added two to be on the safe side. We also used a lot of propeller shaft grease to ensure watertight seal agains the 3d printed parts and shaft. We used a 10mm 304 stainless steel shaft, that we polished with 1200 grit paper to also ensure sealing.