Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Boats, Jet Skis, Kayaks etc., including hovercrafts
staska   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Apr 22 2017 2:26pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by staska » Aug 25 2017 3:06am

max2501 wrote: A 1600mm long HTD3 15mm wide belt is only 30€ and really strong. If i can find a good tensionning system i'm sure it can work.
There is not such a thing as really, strong. All should be calculated.
I think this :
https://i.imgur.com/nuUIxn0.png

Or that one:
https://i.imgur.com/oGleLAS.png But, yes, you cant do it with idle sprocket pulley on working side. And it is not so wide - ~22 mm.

https://i.imgur.com/PQ0A7ka.png

90 degree gearbox is cheaper. But need good old lathe and mill to work it out. Not a fancy 3d printer.

bwitt   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 26 2017 12:13am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by bwitt » Aug 26 2017 1:46am

parabellum wrote:
nanni wrote:
anbat8 wrote:
No, did you tried one of these? Is it reliable?

Thanks

Bruno is now closed until July 19, and he told me he ordered the 6374 60kv. After this date I will buy it .
How do you want to cool an out runner under water? :?

What if the motor was in a waterproof housing filled with low viscosity oil? Windage losses would increase but are typically a fairly small percentage of overall losses even for outrunners. Still probably less efficient than a gearbox but not by much but less hassle and cost.

kiter_UK   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 29
Joined: Aug 05 2017 8:47am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by kiter_UK » Aug 26 2017 3:00am

@dirkdiger

My neugart had a 4mm insert too.

Popped out after a bit of fiddling with a flat screw driver under/down side (make sure you loosen the clamp!)

superlefax   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 18 2016 2:26am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by superlefax » Aug 26 2017 6:55am

I'm still not sure which hydrofoil I should buy @Alibaba.
Should I go for the SUP Foil (1) or the Kite Foil (4) ?

@Hiorth: Are you planning to make the desgin of the propguard more safe ? I think I'll buy the 550 KV motor.

Image

nanni   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 23
Joined: Aug 28 2014 1:25pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by nanni » Aug 26 2017 7:21am

bwitt wrote: How do you want to cool an out runner under water? :?


What if the motor was in a waterproof housing filled with low viscosity oil? Windage losses would increase but are typically a fairly small percentage of overall losses even for outrunners. Still probably less efficient than a gearbox but not by much but less hassle and cost.
If you want Bruno sells this http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushl ... tercooled/ or this
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushl ... er-cooled/ you can order it whit custom kv.

For now I bought the 6374 60 kv ...... without cooling ........ we will see.
But my project is different.

Gege2000   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 33
Joined: May 15 2017 12:39pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Gege2000 » Aug 26 2017 7:27am

superlefax wrote:I'm still not sure which hydrofoil I should buy @Alibaba.
Should I go for the SUP Foil (1) or the Kite Foil (4) ?
I ordered the n°4, because it's the NF2 Wakefoil of Slingshot, so you can find a lot of videos with it, and I ordered differents sizes of mast to test the foil at the wakepark.
I think that the ratio (front wing surface) / (rear wing surface) of the n°1 is too high.
Bytheway, this seller sells Lift's foil, but I don't know if the mast is drilled.

Jezza   10 W

10 W
Posts: 67
Joined: Apr 03 2017 7:11am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Jezza » Aug 26 2017 8:34am

Gege2000 wrote:
superlefax wrote:I'm still not sure which hydrofoil I should buy @Alibaba.
Should I go for the SUP Foil (1) or the Kite Foil (4) ?
I ordered the n°4, because it's the NF2 Wakefoil of Slingshot, so you can find a lot of videos with it, and I ordered differents sizes of mast to test the foil at the wakepark.
I think that the ratio (front wing surface) / (rear wing surface) of the n°1 is too high.
Bytheway, this seller sells Lift's foil, but I don't know if the mast is drilled.
Very interested to see what this looks like. No 4 looks like slingshots H1 SUP Pump wing. Should be a perfect match for an Efoil.
Did you order via Alibaba or via email?

Gege2000   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 33
Joined: May 15 2017 12:39pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Gege2000 » Aug 26 2017 8:47am

Jezza wrote:
Gege2000 wrote:
superlefax wrote:I'm still not sure which hydrofoil I should buy @Alibaba.
Should I go for the SUP Foil (1) or the Kite Foil (4) ?
I ordered the n°4, because it's the NF2 Wakefoil of Slingshot, so you can find a lot of videos with it, and I ordered differents sizes of mast to test the foil at the wakepark.
I think that the ratio (front wing surface) / (rear wing surface) of the n°1 is too high.
Bytheway, this seller sells Lift's foil, but I don't know if the mast is drilled.
Very interested to see what this looks like. No 4 looks like slingshots H1 SUP Pump wing. Should be a perfect match for an Efoil.
Did you order via Alibaba or via email?
Alibaba with Visa credit card (so with the payment protection (12$ fees)).

bwitt   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 26 2017 12:13am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by bwitt » Aug 26 2017 9:19am

nanni wrote:
bwitt wrote: How do you want to cool an out runner under water? :?


What if the motor was in a waterproof housing filled with low viscosity oil? Windage losses would increase but are typically a fairly small percentage of overall losses even for outrunners. Still probably less efficient than a gearbox but not by much but less hassle and cost.
If you want Bruno sells this http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushl ... tercooled/ or this
http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushl ... er-cooled/ you can order it whit custom kv.

For now I bought the 6374 60 kv ...... without cooling ........ we will see.
But my project is different.

That could work but then you would either need him to custom wind them or put in a small gearbox anyway and then work out some kind of pumping that that fits into the hydrofoil

max2501   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Aug 22 2017 9:32am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by max2501 » Aug 26 2017 9:36am

staska wrote:
max2501 wrote: A 1600mm long HTD3 15mm wide belt is only 30€ and really strong. If i can find a good tensionning system i'm sure it can work.
There is not such a thing as really, strong. All should be calculated.
I think this :
https://i.imgur.com/nuUIxn0.png

Or that one:
https://i.imgur.com/oGleLAS.png But, yes, you cant do it with idle sprocket pulley on working side. And it is not so wide - ~22 mm.

https://i.imgur.com/PQ0A7ka.png

90 degree gearbox is cheaper. But need good old lathe and mill to work it out. Not a fancy 3d printer.
Thanks for your help. I did the same calculation with poly-v belt and it needs a big tension to work (>400 N). If you add the rider's weight i think that the foil mast won't resist to such a load..

I also checked the 90° gears and it seems to be an easier solution. I have access to lathe, mill and cnc mill, maybe should i go with the 90° gears solution ?

Hiorth   1 W

1 W
Posts: 57
Joined: Jul 15 2017 5:20pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Hiorth » Aug 26 2017 4:33pm

@superlefax
Yes, will build a two part duct (without visible screws) that has downstream stators as well.

Put my ESC, ubec and rc-receiver inside a small aluminium box (3mm wall), with another aluminium 1.5mm heatsink/lid on top. Worked in the workshop, but had loads of signal issues on the water, kind of dangerous... Will extend the antenna outside the box and onto the surface of the board for the next test.

Also built a waterproof case for the controller, it became waterproof with O-ring goove and a Grease seal BUT the springs in the controller are not strong enough to bring it back to starting position, which makes it pretty dangerous. So we will start on my own kontroller design, no point in waiting any longer.

Do anybody know a good way/sensor to translate the movement from the outside of the box to the inside? I´m thinking of making a circle with a strong magnet, connected to a Potmeter on the inside, and similar on the outside connected to the trigger. So the magnet on the outside will pull the magnet (and potmeter) on the inside. should be quite simple to make with a 3d printer.

Cheers
Attachments
Skjermbilde 2017-08-26 kl. 23.25.28.png
Relocated the strap inserts to hold a heatsink plate on top of the batteries./esc Box.
Skjermbilde 2017-08-26 kl. 23.28.08.png

superlefax   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 18 2016 2:26am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by superlefax » Aug 26 2017 5:21pm

@Hiorth: That sounds great. I will wait for your new prop guard design :D . Here is some other interesting cooling method: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-l ... tore=en_us

@gege2000: How much you paid for the delivery fee? They want to have 160$ to send it to Germany via Express... I asked them if they accept PayPal and they do. I'm wondering which is better.

dirkdiggler   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 628
Joined: Oct 18 2012 1:31am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by dirkdiggler » Aug 26 2017 6:06pm

Hiorth:
Look at gt2b on thingiverse. The sparkle or wolf enclosure might be what you want to use to waterproof your controller.
I'm printing your prop right now. I flipped it upside down for my mini printer. Looks good so far. I can't print the duct as it's too big. Can you do another cut in thirds or halfs? I've been using tinkercad and the duct file is too large to upload and split myself. Total 3d newb. I split the structural parts file already and will print the foil attachment parts next.
I do like the idea of using the 6364 outrunner motor as I have a few for eskateboards. Maybe use a bit smaller prop to get the same ratio. My motors are 245 kv. Without 5:1 reduction, prop speeds would be double the 500 kv 50100 inrunner. Just using the motor would save weight and drag. Plus you can get them for $50.

User avatar
parabellum   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2085
Joined: Nov 19 2010 9:55am
Location: Dominican Republic, north.

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by parabellum » Aug 26 2017 10:58pm

nanni wrote:For now I bought the 6374 60 kv ...... without cooling ........ we will see.
But my project is different.
Let us see what is your project. Any project with an out runner and no forced air cooling is easily a failure. I also have several 80100 180kv motors from hobby king. Using in CVT, tuned to perfect rpm, most comparable to prop, any intents to cool the core was no success, only solution- ducted fan pushing air along the copper. I still have a hope to use those guys, despite their inefficiency. :)

Jimmy22   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 17 2017 6:21pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Jimmy22 » Aug 27 2017 6:52pm

#4 looks like the slingshot NF2 foil , the others are the Fwind1 and Fwind2 foils and the sup foil is an unknown monster .

#4 (NF2 ) will get out of the water about 15 kmph and is a higher speed foil , the others will lift earlier

http://www.slingshotsports.com/FOILS

i would have thought the larger Fwind foil (Fwind1) would be the best compromise for this application so you can go 10kmph or so and keep foiling once you are airborne

my happy place on the NF2 replica is 20kmph or so which means you would chew through a tad more Amps/hour i expect , air resistance even starts to sap some significant power after 30kmph

Gege2000   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 33
Joined: May 15 2017 12:39pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Gege2000 » Aug 28 2017 1:25am


Jimmy22   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 7
Joined: Aug 17 2017 6:21pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Jimmy22 » Aug 29 2017 12:20am

Yes the 2018 Slinghot offerings, but the sup foil is not released as of yet so quite an unknown quantity, with no reviews , i note on Ali express the rear foil is upside down on the sup foil ! i assure you folks that will not work, i own one of those rear foils and mounts and it isn't designed to work that way. i had a kite foil/wake foil rear and now have the identical (blue) windsurf version , all of which work the other way up. definitely be cautious is my main message, the Ali express gear looks identical in the photos though and is very tempting i get the feeling they know nothing about the design aspect only manufacturing/copying.

Jezza   10 W

10 W
Posts: 67
Joined: Apr 03 2017 7:11am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Jezza » Aug 30 2017 3:33am

Jimmy22 wrote:i note on Ali express the rear foil is upside down on the sup foil ! i assure you folks that will not work, i own one of those rear foils and mounts and it isn't designed to work that way. i had a kite foil/wake foil rear and now have the identical (blue) windsurf version , all of which work the other way up. definitely be cautious is my main message, the Ali express gear looks identical in the photos though and is very tempting i get the feeling they know nothing about the design aspect only manufacturing/copying.
- I also saw the rear wing was put on upside down, however you should be able to take the wing and shim off and then put it the other side.
- Slingshot is manufactured in the east, so it wouldn't surprise me if one of those guys are the actual manufacturers. But I would think it would be one that will only allow bulk sales and not single pieces.

ewarner   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 31 2017 2:39am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by ewarner » Aug 31 2017 3:48am

Interesting watercraft with steering hydrofoil and electric propulsion.

Link: http://www.graphidia.de

Image

beonwater   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 08 2017 4:39pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by beonwater » Sep 01 2017 3:55am

Does anyone here have knowledge in what type of lubrication to use in the planetary gearbox like Neugart or Parker when using them with hight input rpm?
Should the gearbox be filled with oil?

Does anyone here have experience in laminate carbonfiber/epoxy onto PLA? I would like to 3d print the mast and I´m worried about the adhesion. Is there any special treatment you need to do with the PLA before lamination? I heard someone told me that PLA could suck out the epoxy resin from the carbon fabric.

Jezza   10 W

10 W
Posts: 67
Joined: Apr 03 2017 7:11am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Jezza » Sep 01 2017 7:01am

beonwater wrote:Does anyone here have knowledge in what type of lubrication to use in the planetary gearbox like Neugart or Parker when using them with hight input rpm?
Should the gearbox be filled with oil?

Does anyone here have experience in laminate carbonfiber/epoxy onto PLA? I would like to 3d print the mast and I´m worried about the adhesion. Is there any special treatment you need to do with the PLA before lamination? I heard someone told me that PLA could suck out the epoxy resin from the carbon fabric.
I am using the grease that is already in my Neugart. After all it was designed for an outboard motor so should work.
As for carbon - PLA, I have never done it, but would approach it as follows:
- lightly sand PLA
- coat with a layer of epoxy and let dry.
- lightly sand layer of epoxy to prepare it for carbon.
- laminate carbon onto mast.

beonwater   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Aug 08 2017 4:39pm

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by beonwater » Sep 01 2017 8:40am

Jezza wrote:
beonwater wrote:Does anyone here have knowledge in what type of lubrication to use in the planetary gearbox like Neugart or Parker when using them with hight input rpm?
Should the gearbox be filled with oil?

Does anyone here have experience in laminate carbonfiber/epoxy onto PLA? I would like to 3d print the mast and I´m worried about the adhesion. Is there any special treatment you need to do with the PLA before lamination? I heard someone told me that PLA could suck out the epoxy resin from the carbon fabric.
I am using the grease that is already in my Neugart. After all it was designed for an outboard motor so should work.
What do you mean by Neugart is design for an outboard motor? What type of model do you use? When I speaked with one of their reseller in my country he told me their gearboxes PLE040 are designed for input speed below 10000.

Jezza   10 W

10 W
Posts: 67
Joined: Apr 03 2017 7:11am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by Jezza » Sep 01 2017 8:45am

beonwater wrote:
Jezza wrote:
beonwater wrote:Does anyone here have knowledge in what type of lubrication to use in the planetary gearbox like Neugart or Parker when using them with hight input rpm?
Should the gearbox be filled with oil?

Does anyone here have experience in laminate carbonfiber/epoxy onto PLA? I would like to 3d print the mast and I´m worried about the adhesion. Is there any special treatment you need to do with the PLA before lamination? I heard someone told me that PLA could suck out the epoxy resin from the carbon fabric.
I am using the grease that is already in my Neugart. After all it was designed for an outboard motor so should work.
What do you mean by Neugart is design for an outboard motor? What type of model do you use? When I speaked with one of their reseller in my country he told me their gearboxes PLE040 are designed for input speed below 10000.
The PLE 40 can take a maximum input RPM of 18000.
I have the one designed for the Torqeedo 1003 outboard motor. I'd imagine its designed around an input max of 18000 as well, but its pretty solid so should be able to handle higher than that as well.

ewarner   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 31 2017 2:39am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by ewarner » Sep 01 2017 9:05am

beonwater wrote:Does anyone here have knowledge in what type of lubrication to use in the planetary gearbox like Neugart or Parker when using them with hight input rpm?
Should the gearbox be filled with oil?

Does anyone here have experience in laminate carbonfiber/epoxy onto PLA? I would like to 3d print the mast and I´m worried about the adhesion. Is there any special treatment you need to do with the PLA before lamination? I heard someone told me that PLA could suck out the epoxy resin from the carbon fabric.
Sanding your PLA parts is important to ensure enough layer adhesion to the composite material.
Another possibility is to choose a certain infill rate and structure and fill the hollow space with epoxy. The surface still is your 3D printing material but overall material strength is strongly improved.

kiter_UK   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 29
Joined: Aug 05 2017 8:47am

Re: Electric Hydrofoil/E-Foil

Post by kiter_UK » Sep 01 2017 10:23am

Are people 3d printing with PLA rather than ABS or other?

Post Reply