Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

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Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:06 pm

So I finally moved to NYC (Manhattan island).

Wow, eBikes are everywhere here, and nobody seems to care about the ban on them (many twist/thumb throttle e-Bikes !!!).
I'd say where I am, (Upper East Side near E67th St) 2 to 3 out of 6 bikes are e-bikes.
The striking thing is, around 95% of these eBikes are all of the same brand/kind : The Arrow-7 ebike : It has a vertical tube (saddletube) 48V 20Ah batterypack in an aluminium case.
After talking to a few people riding eBike, someone told me the rear hub on these are 800W. He couldnt say if it was a DD or hub moter. The brakes are hydrolic brake disks.
On guy said they can go up to 42 mph, but I highly doubt it. Probably more like 25 mph (45 km/h) top.

So I left my precious Bafang BBSHD kit + the bike it was on in Canada. I did not want this expensive kit to be stolen.
The Arrow-7 bike seems rather cheap at 1450 USD for the whole bike (which is fully equipped with motor, controller AND the Big 960 Wh battery (dont know which cells though). I has lights, front suspension, mud gards, rear rack... So quite cheap.

I want an e-Ride in Manhattan. I have some decent bicycle lock too (Kryptonite NY Fageddaboudit).
But still didn't want to risk a BBSHD to get stolen.
THe arrow-7 are soo common and commonly associated to the delivery guys "syndicate" that these eBike don't seem to draw very much attention although they still worth some good cash.

My question :
I'm thinking to options :
1) Ultra cheap 150 $ eBay 1000W kit + by a crap bike + build my own battery (already got a fair amount of VTC4 cells), OR
2) Just directly buy an Arrow-7 ebike like everybody does here...
Arrow-7.jpg


QUESTIONS
Anyone have eperience with the Arrow-7 ebIkes ? How good ? How fast ? Range ? Price you got and where you bought ?
SHould I buy something else?


Thanks,

Matador

I want the occasional20-30 miles roundtrip commute and having fun riding in town... No track here. Manhattan and the surrounding are quite flat. I'm 150 lbs.
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:22 pm

118 view and no replies... Bump !
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:49 pm

Well, I bought a used one off craiglist... 600 US dollars. Battery (100 CYCLES) made of BAK cells or something analogous (Cheap chinese cells) .... 10S10P.
Motor is 350W hub. Controller is minuscule... 15A burst, 7A rated at 36V...
But hey, it's better than walking in NYC.
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby neptronix » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:55 pm

We mostly build our own here.. no surprise you didn't get much of a response.

Anyway, that's actually an interesting frame. Putting the rider up front allows the front suspension to do more work. I always wanted a frame like that.. with a better front shock of course!
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Warren » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:25 pm

Here is a used one.

http://abc7ny.com/1965727/

050717-bikebatteryfire.jpg
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:33 pm

neptronix wrote:We mostly build our own here.. no surprise you didn't get much of a response.

Anyway, that's actually an interesting frame. Putting the rider up front allows the front suspension to do more work. I always wanted a frame like that.. with a better front shock of course!


Oh I get it :) I love to assemble thing also (I have another one in Canada with a BBSHD... still quite easy to assemble though). But on Manhattan island, everything is more complicated. It's hard to have many tools in a small apppartement, etc.
I wanted an ebike that'd worked for commutin ... I like the frame format too... The cool thing is you can buy the battery box (which accepts 100 cells... up to 1.2 kWh) and fill them with the cells of your choice and then you still have the triangle frame is you want to have more range !!! (downtube pack or framebag).

These arrow ebikes.... not so powefull, but there are heavy and solid like tanks... built for the NYC's potholes!
Anyways, it work. And 350W is around 20 mph, which is already quite dangerous enough on manhattan island. Plus 350W is soft on the battery pack (a 10S10P pack !).
My moldel is the old edition 36V.... Some have 36V 20A controllers.... I have 36V 15A controller (15A max.... 7 amp rated).
The newer arrow eBikes have 48V 30A controller i believe. The go 28-30 mph (good luck with that in crazy manhattan)...

The controller is hidden inside a metal box (with one cover and 4 screws) that is just behind the bottom bracket, and which is an integral part of the frame.

A better fork would be great!

THe cool thing is. If you buy new... You'll have the 48V for 1450 USD. And, the bike comes with lights, mudguards, twist throttle, rear rack (heavy duty stuff made for the delivery guys) and mineral oil disk brakes !

The brakes are crazy efficient on these things.
I'm thinking I should buy another one (but new), modify the controller box for bigger controller. And put a new fork and a 6000W Hub in the back wheel !

Funny that it's so hard to find information on these "Arrow 7" e-bikes on the net...

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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:41 pm

I've done 14 miles (22 km). Starting on fresh charge 41.9V, I measured 38.4V after that trip ! Still some juice !
I know a store that repairs them on manhattan. The guy makes very good price, repair anything on them and know everything there is to know on them.
The store/service place is on West 103rd St, between Amsterdam and Broadway. Love my 600$ eBike.
Went to kmart with it today to pick up some stuff for my appartment.
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby neptronix » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:04 am

Matador wrote:My moldel is the old edition 36V.... Some have 36V 20A controllers.... I have 36V 15A controller (15A max.... 7 amp rated).
The newer arrow eBikes have 48V 30A controller i believe. The go 28-30 mph (good luck with that in crazy manhattan)...


If you have a big battery, and you think it can output more juice ( IE, very little voltage sag and heat on the battery ), then you might be able to get away with a shunt mod on the controller. I would check the temperature of the controller after a full day of riding to see if it's hot already though before trying that.. and absolutely have a full watt meter hooked up to asses how much current you've added so that you aren't going overboard.

Matador wrote:Funny that it's so hard to find information on these "Arrow 7" e-bikes on the net...


That's because they're likely a rebrand of some generic China bike. These are probably sold under hundreds of different names.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:06 pm

neptronix wrote:
Matador wrote:My moldel is the old edition 36V.... Some have 36V 20A controllers.... I have 36V 15A controller (15A max.... 7 amp rated).
The newer arrow eBikes have 48V 30A controller i believe. The go 28-30 mph (good luck with that in crazy manhattan)...


If you have a big battery, and you think it can output more juice ( IE, very little voltage sag and heat on the battery ), then you might be able to get away with a shunt mod on the controller. I would check the temperature of the controller after a full day of riding to see if it's hot already though before trying that.. and absolutely have a full watt meter hooked up to asses how much current you've added so that you aren't going overboard.

Matador wrote:Funny that it's so hard to find information on these "Arrow 7" e-bikes on the net...


That's because they're likely a rebrand of some generic China bike. These are probably sold under hundreds of different names.


I think i could do a shunt mod. The controller and motor still seem at room temps after 14 miles (feel normal to the touch).
However the phase wire seem so small, I'Km now sure how much I could push it.
I played with the controller wires. And figuered what was what.
The controller has a connector for a front light,a connector for the PAS donought on the bottom bracket, a connector for a 2 position speed switch (fast and slow), two connector for margetic brack cutuffs.
It turned out most were disconnected. I reconnected everything and now PAS is workind, brake cutuff also and the 2 way speed switch (was stuck on high speed otherwise), one connector for hall sensor, the battery connnector, the phase wires. And there are two 2-pin connectors that could create a wire loop (from controller, to controller) if ic connect togoether, athough I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to do.

It makes sense these are generic chinese bikes and cells. I'm surprized Luna or other sellers don't sell these.
They're heavy and cluncky, but they are solid like tanks, good for commuting even when there is a lot of putholes. Plus the controller is intergrated to the frame and there is a designated spot for a removable, lockable, hard case, massive battery... I love my mid-drive, but the Arrow 7 (and all other iterations of the generic frame) is awesome fo commuting !
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby galvatron1 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:58 pm

I inquired to the 3 shops that carry the Arrow-7 in NYC 2 months ago, each said they now charge $1480, instead of the $1450 advertised price online, b/c they use the new panasonic cells. Still an excellent value for 48v 20aH, they even come with Schwalbe Marathon tires!!

For a couple of dollars more, they offered to upgrade the controller & battery to a 52v 17ah battery pack, @ the 8th ave shop in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. I didn't test ride it, but the frames look well built. It appears to have a sleek, integrated torque arm in a rear drop out recess.

Not sure what to do to prevent the fire posted above in the news report. If only the battery were as safe as an em3ev battery pack, with individual fuses. Would em3ev make a pack to fit that battery slot?
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:08 am

Nice. Did they say how many amps the upgraded 52V controller can dump in the motor ? The growing lewel of power gets interesting!

Personally, I'd open the battery pack and check though.... The guy who sold me my used 600 USD 36V ebike said they where samsung... but when I opened it up it was some generic branded cells with a codbare and numbers... Chinese "DLC-Brand" 2600mAh NMC 18650 cells, rated for 5.2A (2C) max draw..
I'm sure the seller that sell new one have a reputation to maintain. I noted the adress 8th avenue in brooklyn.... I Might visit them !

I love almost everything about these bikes...
- Comes stock with crazy powerfull hydrolic mineral oil piston-caliper disk brakes.
- The frame is a tank. I feel it was designed for delivery guy who spend their days rolling in New York Manhattan's pothole-full streets.
- Intergrated torque arms recessed into the frame.
- Comes stock with mudgards,
- Comes stock with front an rear light and switch (all wired to the ebike battery)
- Comes stock with designated and well placed spot for a massive hard case and lockable battery (now that's range!)
- Comes stock very massive and solid rear rack.
- Comes stock with a V-shaped double leg stand (just like the ones on motorcycles)
- Comes stock with a front fork suspension.
- Comes stock with a PAS sensor
- Comes stock with a controller box at or just in the rear of the bottom brack. So that protects the controller and makes the bike look more stealthy.
- There a key on the seat. When turned, the seat tilts forward a 90° angle and battery can be removed (provided you have the key to remove the battery with is groove frond the metal rail that guides it.
- Comes stock with protection rubber protection pads on downtube and horizontal tube to protect frame's paint from the heavyness ot the fat kryptonite chains we use her in NYC.
- I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, but I love these bikees (even the low power version I have)... They're ready right of the bat.

It looks like nothing, but all these great accessory add up to the cost of the thing...

I'd swap the hub for a 6000W + capable DD hub moter. Get a proper controller. Gut the battery and rebuild it with sony VTC4 cells a proper BMS (20S-5P for 150A bursts at 72V).... and add a frame bag battery for even more range. That would kick ass!

Matador
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby galvatron1 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:45 am

Do you know how to reweld the battery pack with individual cell fuses? Like em3ev?
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:02 pm

I think It's be better to ask eM3EV if they can do a custom job for this. Seeing their youtube vids, I am 100% confident they would do a seamless professionnal job on it. Plus china sell a lot of these bikes and a lot of these battery cases. That a good selling opportunity for EM3EV to gain even more clientelle here.
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:06 pm

have a very old version the Arrow-7 Love it. My battery is not old though (100 cycles).... It's a 36V 10S10P 20ah... I dont have the one with samsung cells.
I got the one with cheap chinese cells .... Still, look at these numbers.... I'm mainly doing throttle only (My system is 350W continous) :

Here, dit a few tests

July 13 & 14 --------- Departure 42.0V (100%) -----> Arrival 38.4V (70%) -------- Distance : 13.5 miles ; 22.0 km
July 15 --------------- Departure 41.8 V (99%) ------> Arrival 39.9V (81%) -------- Distance : 8.4 miles ; 13.5 km
July 17 --------------- Departure 41.7 V (98%) ------> Arrival 40.6V (88%) -------- Distance : 3.0 miles ; 4.8 km
July 20 --------------- Departure 40.5V (88%) -------> Arrival 39.2V (77%) -------- Distance : 9.8 miles ; 15.8 km
July 21 --------------- Departure 40.5V (88%) -------> Arrival 37.6V (63%) -------- Distance : 13.7 miles ; 22.4 km
July 24 --------------- Departure 41.7 V (98%) ------> Arrival 38.6V (71%) -------- Distance : 13.2 miles ; 21.2 km (done in real 1:15 stop included... so average of 17 km/h in traffic and pauses).

I think I can do 35 miles (60 km) range and still have 25% left (33.0V) but starting there, cells will get unbalanced....
With my setup, my cells see 0.5C.... Pretty reliable for commuting needs.
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:36 pm

Pretty happy about this battery...
It's a 36V nominal 10S10P. BMS is 25A max. I found out that the cells are cheap 2600mAh chinese 2C-max rated "DLG" branded cells : http://www.dlgbattery.cn/en/ & http://www.dlgbattery.cn/en/upload/2016 ... huxing.pdf
So that's 36V at 26 Amp-hours.... (936 Whr)
Sans titre-11.jpg
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Not bad considering the price I paid for a second hand bike ... 600 USD. Manufacture code on the cells say they are form June 5th 2016 (1 year old cells).
Cheap cells yes, but at 2C these 2600 mAh cells could theortically give out 52A burst (but BMS is only good for 25A)... Anyways, controller is at max 15A, which is babying the battery

Hence I get great range on Manhattan island. I did a few discharges to see the range (my charger charges the battery at 41.7V fulled).
Sans titre-8.jpg
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I wonder If I can really expect an 80 Km range on a full charge... The LVC is set at 31.5 V. Considering the amp pulls at most 15A and cells are max 55 milliohm. I can't expect much more that a 1.0 voltage drop at full load.
So it I check the curve all the way down to 32.5V, I could expect 80 km from this 26Ah 36V battery ? Quite awesome !

Matador
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:58 pm

This is my 600 USD Manhattan commuter ride.... the Range versus Volts graph you see above are from that battery sitting under my seat (with those cheap chinese cells) :
My NYC Arrow Ride.jpg


I know 20 mph at 36V is not fast but it's more than enough here in Manhattan NYC (cars don't go much faster here anyways).
The thing is old too.... which minimizes the chance of getting it stolen. But it feels like a tank on all those potholes.

The 48 Volt version (most recent version) and 52V options are much faster. The 48V has a 30 amps controller and people say it does 30 mph no problem...
I'm happy with 20 mph for 600 bucks. I Ride respectfully, stopping at light for people who cross the streets and I always put my lights on and of course I wear a helmet.

Matador
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:27 am

neptronix wrote:
Matador wrote:My moldel is the old edition 36V.... Some have 36V 20A controllers.... I have 36V 15A controller (15A max.... 7 amp rated).
The newer arrow eBikes have 48V 30A controller i believe. The go 28-30 mph (good luck with that in crazy manhattan)...


If you have a big battery, and you think it can output more juice ( IE, very little voltage sag and heat on the battery ), then you might be able to get away with a shunt mod on the controller. I would check the temperature of the controller after a full day of riding to see if it's hot already though before trying that.. and absolutely have a full watt meter hooked up to asses how much current you've added so that you aren't going overboard.

Matador wrote:Funny that it's so hard to find information on these "Arrow 7" e-bikes on the net...


That's because they're likely a rebrand of some generic China bike. These are probably sold under hundreds of different names.


I got this exact controller. Same serial number, same spec numbers (just different connectors), except for my LVC which is 31.5Vé
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63242&p=945865#p945915
20140912-082902.jpg
20140912-082902.jpg (47.63 KiB) Viewed 317 times


These days the Arrow-7 is 500W 800W burst (48V ?amp controller) while the Arrow-26A is 350W and comes with a 20A 36V controller.
For some reason, I have a 15A controller (15A burst; 7 A continous).
i'm now wondering if I a have a 250W rated motor. Then what if I push it to 25A or 30A at 36V ? Should it survive ?

The thing fits in the controller box with just a little room for the wires. The metal box part is 9.7 x 5.1 x 3.0 cm.
I'm wondering.... Can I get more speed with a bigger controller but same moter. I mean, is it possible to get more speed with higher amps or will I only gain torque. I was thinking about a 36V 26A controller (althought that might be a bit too big). Like this : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Mot ... 0d2d&tpp=1
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:43 am

Did a 39.0 miles on shot ride today. FUll twist throtte, pedeling along 95% of time, averageing 17.45 mph.
My hands are bruised and my ass aches from the long ride...

I really like the range. 39.0 miles is 62.8 km.
If went from 41.7V to 35.9V and did 39.0 miles. So that's grossly 12.5 Wh/miles or 7.8 Wh/km consumption...
Do you think I can push it even more ??? The battery is a 10S10P made of 2600 mAh chinese cells (max rating 2C.... so maximum 52 amps but anyways BMS is 25A).

At what voltage would you guys push it ? My LVC is set at 31.5.... Should I test discharge all the way down to 31.5V to test the range ?
I thought maybe 33V, not less.... I heard cells become unbalenced is discharges do zero.
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby IronfistZ » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:00 pm

I scrolled through the boards, and I can not find a contact for the Arrow 7 bike. I have a shop back west, and I wanted to purchase some for sale. Can any of you be kind enough to get me to the right person to purchase this bike? I was in NYC for a week in July, and they are by far the most common bike for delivery drivers. They are pretty awesome and I think I can make it work for our needs. Would any of you be kind enough to lend me your contact information for purchasing one of these?

Thank You!

Z
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Re: Arrow-7 Review... NYC's most prevalent eBike

Postby Matador » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:05 am

S'en you s PM with 2 shop adressses in manhattan. I also tried googling it no luck. Maybe try search for generic frames on alibaba or aliexpress. My battery is huge... 480 x 110 x 75 mm , it got range and the frame is made to accomodate this huge battpack. Never seen anything that big befor except custum battery in loose non rigid non turnkey removable batteries.
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