Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Ingo   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Ingo » Feb 09 2018 4:56am

with my Win 7 PC it works very well ....
allso i fixed my other problems with the CA B21. it was all about the diodes... the CA need schottky´s otherwise the device will be buggy..

thanks teklektik !

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gronph » Feb 09 2018 5:23am

On The Grin Homepage:
Next up on the CA3 front: Android app support
Come on tell us more :D

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 09 2018 8:53am

Ingo wrote:
Feb 09 2018 4:56am
with my Win 7 PC it works very well ....
allso i fixed my other problems with the CA B21. it was all about the diodes... the CA need schottky´s otherwise the device will be buggy..
Great news! Glad you and Justin were able to get things sorted out.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 09 2018 8:55am

gronph wrote:
Feb 08 2018 2:36pm
is EBrake automaticaly Regen or is there an EBrake Function without Regen so that no Power goes back to the Battery?
This is a controller function. You need to post this question in a new or different thread to get the scoop on setting up your particular controller.
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Ingo   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Ingo » Feb 11 2018 4:29am

i calibratet 0 amps with b21. it showes me 2.51-2.49 . but after that i change the mohm value from 0.1879 to 0.1875 mohm . does the 0amps calibration will resett then too ?
or will it stay at 2.51-2.49 . because i see 2.51-2.51 when i go in call menü

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Re: v3.1 Beta 22 Released (Also new Setup Utility 1.54)

Post by teklektik » Feb 12 2018 1:34pm

v3.1 Beta 22 Released (Also new Setup Utility 1.54)

A new 3.1b22 firmware release is available for download as well as a new Setup Utility. The changes are largely cosmetic and don't affect or repair any core functionality. However, this is a candidate for the 3.1 production release so beta testers are encouraged to load up the firmware, beat on it, and let us know what needs attention. :D

Changes to the firmware fix a corrupted chemistry chooser in Setup Utility, add a new torque device as a pre-defined type (Sempu), and move some settings to the 'Misc' category. See the Release Notes under 'Help/Help/Release Notes' in the Setup Utility.

Changes to the Setup Utility include improvements to the 'Get New Firmware' functionality that allows you to be more selective about what you pull down from the Grin server.

The new Setup Utility is available on the Grin CA V3 page >>>here<<<.

The new firmware can be obtained using the Setup Utility via the 'File/Get New Firmware' selection (WooHoo!).

CA_3-1b22.png
CA_3-1b22.png (52.71 KiB) Viewed 1764 times

It's easy to get the firmware and all your settings will remain unchanged, so take it for a spin!
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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madin88 » Feb 12 2018 1:54pm

Awesome!
would it be worth to swap out a Thun torque sensor (or Xcell RT) for the Sempu?

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 12 2018 6:16pm

madin88 wrote:
Feb 12 2018 1:54pm
would it be worth to swap out a Thun torque sensor (or Xcell RT) for the Sempu?
That's a good question.

The answer is pretty much situational and depends on whether you are looking for rapid detection of start/stop (NCTE or TDCM), accurate torque sensing because you are a 'cyclist' kind of person (Thun), or low cost (TDCM). The more poles in the sensor, the fewer degrees the cranks need to rotate before the CA gets an indication (Thun=8, NCTE=16). Some units have accurate torque sensors (Thun) while some have some other schemes that generally work okay for PAS but aren't too accurate for measuring human watts (TDCM=chain tension). And of course, there's the Thun only-one-sided torque measurement thing.

I haven't seen the new 2018 Sempu units yet, but Justin is pretty enthusiastic about them - they work well, are at an attractive price point, and have 24 poles (!). Details to be posted before long.

That said, we also have some firmware PAS upgrades in the pipe that should make all PAS owners a bunch happier, so your Thun should work even better before Summer in any case.
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3.1 Beta 21/22 Tip

Post by teklektik » Feb 12 2018 6:28pm

3.1 Beta 21/22 Tip

The CA3 has always had the ability to hide screens when you are moving so you can navigate to select screens of interest without a lot of distracting button pushing. On the downside, there's lots of important stuff on the Main Screen and so you have to push buttons some more to get back there.

3.1b21 introduced the Disp->AutoMain option that will automatically return you to the Main Screen after about 12 seconds. This lets you click over to a screen of interest and the CA will switch back to main by itself after you've had an opportunity to eyeball the other screen. This should help keep hands on the grips and eyes on the road... :D
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BVH   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BVH » Feb 16 2018 6:09pm

Just received my CA V3 and want to play around with the setup program on the bench. My bike is apart so I can't simply plug in the CA cable to the controller to power it up. Do I just need to supply power to the red and black pins of the 6-pin connector and if so, what voltage? Looked in the back of the manual under firmware update but didn't see any data on the required connection.

I have my original in-line CA shunt that has the CA v2.3 connector so I'm guessing I can just supply my bike battery voltage to the shunt and all will be good to go?

Answered my own question. working like it shoulf.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2018 9:01pm

BVH wrote:
Feb 16 2018 6:09pm
I have my original in-line CA shunt that has the CA v2.3 connector so I'm guessing I can just supply my bike battery voltage to the shunt and all will be good to go?

Answered my own question. working like it should.
Kind of jammed up today, sorry in any delay getting back.
Yep - you are exactly right - that was a good way to bench test the CA.
The wiring for that setup is in the hardware installation section of the Guide - just leave off the controller - see (belatedly):
4.2.1.4 Installation with Cycle Analyst Molded External Shunt Module (Normal Mode).

CA3_extShuntHookup.png
CA3_extShuntHookup.png (32.12 KiB) Viewed 1638 times
While it's on the bench, I recommend you load up 3.1b22....
Last edited by teklektik on Feb 17 2018 8:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BVH   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BVH » Feb 17 2018 2:07pm

Thanks for the confirmation. I did load up the latest beta and it seems to be programming just fine.

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teklektik   10 GW

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v3.1 Released!

Post by teklektik » Feb 21 2018 8:15pm

v3.1 Production Version is Released!

The final production version of 3.1 is released and can be pulled down in your Setup Utility using the "Get New Firmware" option.

This is essentially the 3.1b22 firmware release re-branded with some minor Help file and Release Notes updates. There is no functional advantage to upgrading from b22, but a nice tidy "3.1" Splash Screen will look really nice....

There were a number of things on the wish list that we didn't get to, but the development had reached a point where all the important milestones over 3.0 had been reached and so 3.1 went to production and will be distributed on all new CA3s. If your wish didn't make it into 3.1, don't worry, there will be a 3.11 upgrade this year as we continue chewing into the list.

The super support from our loyal beta testers helped us get here in spite of some unforeseen delays last year. Many many thanks for the assist and a heartfelt 'Attaboy' for everyone who pitched in with posts, bug reports, and ideas.

:D :D :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Feb 23 2018 11:04am

thanks tek! i love how this product has been improving over the last years!!

JeffH   100 µW

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Slow Pwr Up message w/upgrade to 3.1

Post by JeffH » Feb 23 2018 12:51pm

Using the new setup utility 1.55 (nice improvements, btw) I upgraded my CA from 3.1b20 to 3.1.
All seemed good last night.
THe only changes in setup seemed to be display screen settings.

This morning at bootup the screen displayed the message "Slow PWR Up" and nothing else.

So I reflashed 3.1.
The update went normal and the CA booted up ok.

But it's displaying a voltage of 153 V (I'm using a 13S pack)
and a says it's seeing a 6 amp load even with the motor disconnected.

I've tried flashing back to 3.03 and using a setup file used with it.
As well as to B20 (and the last saved setup file)
and back again to 3.1 (along with a setup file that I saved right after the upgrade)

Things are still wonky with the battery voltage showing 153 volts and 6 amp flow.

The only clue I saw was that the shunt resistance was change with the flash to 3.1 but was still within reason.
Further to that I can write a b3.20 setup file from last month to the CA that has a value of 3.871 Mohms.
Reading the CA back after the shunt resistance is showing 4.026 Mohms, and checking directly through the CA setup shows the same.
Manually changing the shunt on the CA works but doesn't help the voltage and amps issue.

Any clues?
Thanks,
Jeff

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Re: Slow Pwr Up message w/upgrade to 3.1

Post by teklektik » Feb 23 2018 1:52pm

JeffH wrote:
Feb 23 2018 12:51pm
This morning at bootup the screen displayed the message "Slow PWR Up" and nothing else.
...
Things are still wonky with the battery voltage showing 153 volts and 6 amp flow.
It looks like there was an error in transferring settings that has corrupted your voltage calibration - and maybe other things.

Ratz.
This will need to be addressed in its own right, but let's look at your particular case to get you on the road.

What is needed is to restore the protected settings that normally are unaffected by reading and writing setups to/from the CA. These settings calibrate the CA voltage and current measurement ability and are calibrations done at the factory for your particular CA. That said, there are 'generic' calibration values that can be used instead that will work fine and are typically only a few percent your specific calibrated settings.

(1) The first thing to try is to load up an older setup file that you read from your CA - ideally you saved one immediately when you got the device. Although you can't normally see them, these settings are in there when you read from the CA. To make the values visible, enable "Preferences/Show Protected Settings". Jot down the values in the dark protected settings rows. You may need to go back to an older Setup Utility, but the idea is to transfer these few items by hand, so - annoying but no compatibility problems. In any case the setup file must have been read from the CA - one you just created and wrote to the CA will have default values instead of the stuff in CA memory.

If you can't locate an appropriate setup file you will just need to use the defaults. This is fine (I have CAs that long ago got a brain-wipe and they work happily...).

(2) Next you want to update your CA with 3.1. Check the boxes on the update screen for "Reset settings to defaults" AND "Reset calibration settings". This will clobber the ALL bogus values in your CA with good default values - including the calibration stuff.

(3) Next, use the tab with the "3.1 New Settings" and fill in your desired configuration. If you found your earlier calibration settings, do the "Protected Settings" checkbox thing and enter the previous values. Be sure to check the box for any protected setting that you change.

(4) Now write the setup to the CA. All your new configuration as well as all protected settings with a checked box will get written. (Best to save the new Setup to file as a new baseline config...)

Your Ca should now have working values (your original calibrated ones if you had them) and should make electrical measurements properly.

(5)Go for a ride and try not to curse us out too much for this slip-up.... :oops:

Thanks for the post - we'll look into this ASAP.
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JeffH   100 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by JeffH » Feb 23 2018 2:29pm

Teklektik,
Thanks for the quick response. (no curses, it's all part of it).
Anyway
It was an easy fix.
-Flashed to 3.1 with both resets
-compared the protected values to the oldest hex file I have and found that they were now the same so no edits needed.
-Wrote yesterday's saved hex file (saved after manually changing a few setup items after yesterday's flash to 3.1)
-Had to rezero the amp calibration

Seems to be back to normal.

Possibly related or maybe something else?
For about a year now I've been getting a blank (but lit) screen on the CA when I turn on the MC to power it up.
A flip (or two) of the off/on switch on the controller will is needed to get it to boot.
Could this be related (or do you have any ideas as to how to fix this)?

Jeff

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 23 2018 3:01pm

Very happy to hear you're on the road again (apologies to Willie Nelson...)

We were just talking about a possible cause and I really don't want to speculate. We need to look at this and see if we can reproduce it, etc. Right now this looks like a one-off failure, but.... (?)

Yep - that blank screen thing sounds like the dreaded "boot failure" problem. It's almost certainly unrelated to your recent problem.

The processor manufacturer apparently had a batch of chips with some timing issues a few years back that made the processors susceptible to that funky hang on power-up. I have one myself.... There are no cases before or after that particular batch so if you've never seen the issue it's highly unlikely you ever will.

There is a software fix that you can try if you wish - see:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 75#p926356

This will flash a new bootloader into your CA with slightly different timing. This can alleviate the symptoms in many cases.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by JeffH » Feb 23 2018 3:33pm

I applied the bootloader fix and so far that problem has gone away.
You have a good memory to have diagnosed that one.

Anyways...
Something curious about those protected settings.

They change order each time the CA setup is read.
The values stay the same.
Seems kinda random

Jeff

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 23 2018 5:02pm

JeffH wrote:
Feb 23 2018 3:33pm
I applied the bootloader fix and so far that problem has gone away.
You have a good memory to have diagnosed that one.
Super news!

Sadly, I actually have a spectacularly bad memory...

As I do to get many links to past posts, I went to the Unofficial Guide download page and clicked on the "Posts of Interest" spoiler. It has an index to many technically interesting posts in this thread.

And there at the top we find your answer... :D

myCA3MemoryHelper.png
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As far as the random ordering of the protected settings in the Setup Utility - I haven't got a clue... :D
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Re: Adding CA Connector to Generic Controller

Post by ebike11 » Feb 24 2018 12:41pm

teklektik wrote:
Oct 03 2017 11:13am
ebike11 wrote: So you recommend ... leave the cyclone controller throttle connector unused?
??
No - I did not say to change that.

A picture is worth a thousand words - again - please download the Guide and follow the installation steps. The Guide has specific wiring diagrams for installing/wiring your CA and shunt (p 19).

You might examine the diagram in the later section "Appendix D. Adding a CA-DP Connector to a Generic Controller". This illustrates all your components in one diagram. The shunt/controller combination shown in the Appendix is a functional replacement for a controller with a built-in CA-DP connector. Although illustrated with a CA3 plugged in for Normal mode operation, the shunt/controller wiring and new CA-DP connector will work for CA2 or CA3 in either legacy or normal modes. That said, you can sleaze a bit on the generality and use the hookup from page 19 if you prefer (i.e. omit resistor and plug green shunt wire directly into the controller throttle connector).

Do not add extra power or ground wires - the diagrams are complete and work without modification.

CA-genericController3.png
Hi again Teklektik..sorry to refresh an older post..i was wondering..what is the purpose of the 1k resistor on the single green throttle wire? Also do i put the resistor between the green wire coming fron the Grin shunt and to the green wire from the controller? Thanks!

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 24 2018 2:36pm

In these various diagrams, the 1K resistor is present to allow the CA to override the operator throttle if the throttle is plugged into the controller. In some particular configurations this does nothing (e.g. running the controller with a CA3 in normal mode). but the resistor is illustrated because it makes the controller usable for CA2 or for CA3 in either legacy or normal modes. It is the equivalent of a built-in CA-DP connector on a "large screen compatible" controller.

As far as where the resistor goes, I can do no better in words than the diagrams illustrate.
"A picture is worth..."
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 25 2018 5:06pm

teklektik wrote:
Feb 24 2018 2:36pm
In these various diagrams, the 1K resistor is present to allow the CA to override the operator throttle if the throttle is plugged into the controller. In some particular configurations this does nothing (e.g. running the controller with a CA3 in normal mode). but the resistor is illustrated because it makes the controller usable for CA2 or for CA3 in either legacy or normal modes. It is the equivalent of a built-in CA-DP connector on a "large screen compatible" controller.

As far as where the resistor goes, I can do no better in words than the diagrams illustrate.
"A picture is worth..."
Ok thx!
Just another thing if u dont mind..i read the manual but i dont understand some of the terminology.
Its regarding PAS.
I have my CA set at Basic PAS so when I pedal naturally PAS kicks in. Is there a setting to set the duration that the motor runs by itself? For example, if I pedal one rotation then the PAS will kick in for a second or two. Is it possible to extend this time? Thx again!

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BVH » Feb 25 2018 8:19pm

Had my first ride with the new Phaserunner and new CA3. Regarding Auto Cruise, I have the Grin POT installed but disabled because it was acting a little strange. So with POT disabled, when I engage Cruise at straight and level, it reacts as expected. More or less steady speed and power consumption. When I come to a downhill, speed increases and so do the Watts being consumed. 1 example is from about 300 to 550 Watts. When I hit an uphill, the reverse happens, less Watts and I slow down.

When the POT was enabled, I set Cruise and it reacts as expected. I leave the POT knob in the middle of travel when I activate Cruise. When turned CCW, my speed falls as expected but when turned CW beyond the set point, I get no increase in speed.

So these two items have me scratching my head. Firmware 3.1, Throttle hooked to CA3

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Re: Slow Pwr Up message w/upgrade to 3.1

Post by Ingo » Feb 26 2018 7:24am

JeffH wrote:
Feb 23 2018 12:51pm
Using the new setup utility 1.55 (nice improvements, btw) I upgraded my CA from 3.1b20 to 3.1.
All seemed good last night.
THe only changes in setup seemed to be display screen settings.

This morning at bootup the screen displayed the message "Slow PWR Up" and nothing else.

So I reflashed 3.1.
The update went normal and the CA booted up ok.

But it's displaying a voltage of 153 V (I'm using a 13S pack)
and a says it's seeing a 6 amp load even with the motor disconnected.

I've tried flashing back to 3.03 and using a setup file used with it.
As well as to B20 (and the last saved setup file)
and back again to 3.1 (along with a setup file that I saved right after the upgrade)

Things are still wonky with the battery voltage showing 153 volts and 6 amp flow.

The only clue I saw was that the shunt resistance was change with the flash to 3.1 but was still within reason.
Further to that I can write a b3.20 setup file from last month to the CA that has a value of 3.871 Mohms.
Reading the CA back after the shunt resistance is showing 4.026 Mohms, and checking directly through the CA setup shows the same.
Manually changing the shunt on the CA works but doesn't help the voltage and amps issue.

Any clues?
Thanks,
Jeff
you wrote SU V. 1.55

i only know about SU V. 1.54

is there a new one to download ?

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