My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Get real world experience and user feedback on the electric bicycle products.
Mountgreenwood   10 mW

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Posts: 22
Joined: Feb 23 2019 7:10am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mountgreenwood » Mar 27 2021 4:13am

Mountgreenwood wrote:
Nov 30 2020 2:38am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 29 2020 8:32pm
Mountgreenwood wrote:
Nov 27 2020 3:24pm
OK, here is an update as to where I stand. Alibaba escalation ruled in my favor for a refund of $4180. My credit card was refunded $580 shortly after. I have been going back and forth with Alibaba at which time they closed my order as completed showing they have refunded the $4180. My last message from a Alibaba had an agent tell me to take it up with my credit card. I have file a dispute with my card issuer which is awkward as the transaction is over 90 days old as my order was made in April. I’m now out $3,600 awaiting the dispute which can take 90 days.
So basically AliBaba refunded you only the shipping costs? Where is the rest? How can it disappear?

Seems like AliBaba buyer protection is just a scam. I can't believe Frey is scamming you since even their warranty has worked flawlessly. There would be no sense to serve 99% of the customers normally and then scam the 1%.

The risk that AliBaba can ''lose'' your money is a serious one. You should share this story on the Frey facebook-group as well.
Those are all very good questions. This is the last message I receive from Alibaba.

“For your order 34740039001022252 , refund amount 4180.00 USD
ARN: 74064180310060074565463
ARN: 35505900310060073863264
Please use these 2 arn to check , thanks ,contact your bank to check , if your bank can not find , please ask them to help youe escalate to visa or master”

So their trade assurance is recommending a charge back (escalate) which I fear might be difficult as the purchase was on 10 Apr 2020.
OK gang, an update. I’ve now been accused of fraud by Cecelia for initiating a credit card dispute. Alibaba.com ,it seems, refunded my order completely according to Frey for both a CC and EX Pro.

The problem is I’m still out $471 after my credit card deducted that amount which was a previous Customs/shipping settlement from the $3,600 I was owed for a $4180 EX Pro which alibaba.com had refunded me $580. Yes, confusing. The communication with Cecilia improved as she changed from “what’s my problem” tone as I think she might finally believe me. That or her realization she might require my assistance for Frey to be made whole from Alibaba. I will tell yee what I told her, I don’t want anything that I didn’t pay for.

I thought I would never see the $3,600 so I was somewhat relieved to get $3128.50 of it and let the thing die and chalk the $471 up to a lesson learned.

As things stand now. I have the CC and am owed $471 approaching the one year anniversary of a EX Pro order in Apr 20. The CC is super loud and heavy but other than that ok.....wouldn’t jump through hoops for it and of course will never attempt anything like this again.

This could have all been avoided if Frey would communicate their issues and issue a refund if they can’t fulfill an order. That does not seem to be their style. I have learned that once they are the ones out some money I have their full attention. Sadly for the first time since I pushed the pay button.

FREYebikes   100 W

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Joined: Dec 20 2017 11:52pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 28 2021 11:05pm

Hi,

Here I would like to show information from our side.
We have succefully refunded 4180USD for your EX bike on 4th,Novermber,2020.
Before, we have another refund to you is 471.5USD succefully in October, 2020.
Total we refunded to you 4651.5USD.
Don't understand you said only 580?
You can see some records from our side.
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Again, we got chargeback notice for CC bike 3128.5USD on 8th,January,2021 and got chargeback result finally on 24th,March,2021.
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It means there is no any payment left for your order to us now. but to your side, you got a CC bike.
As we can't check with your bank from our side. now the order has been completed.
Can you please check records with your bank and if possible let us know the situation?
It is very confused to us. but we can't do anything now.

We always do what we confirmed and what we should do for customers.
It is a also special case that we have not met before, and very strange to us, hope it is not confused to others.

Best Regards,
Ivy
Mountgreenwood wrote:
Mar 27 2021 4:13am
Mountgreenwood wrote:
Nov 30 2020 2:38am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 29 2020 8:32pm
Mountgreenwood wrote:
Nov 27 2020 3:24pm
OK, here is an update as to where I stand. Alibaba escalation ruled in my favor for a refund of $4180. My credit card was refunded $580 shortly after. I have been going back and forth with Alibaba at which time they closed my order as completed showing they have refunded the $4180. My last message from a Alibaba had an agent tell me to take it up with my credit card. I have file a dispute with my card issuer which is awkward as the transaction is over 90 days old as my order was made in April. I’m now out $3,600 awaiting the dispute which can take 90 days.
So basically AliBaba refunded you only the shipping costs? Where is the rest? How can it disappear?

Seems like AliBaba buyer protection is just a scam. I can't believe Frey is scamming you since even their warranty has worked flawlessly. There would be no sense to serve 99% of the customers normally and then scam the 1%.

The risk that AliBaba can ''lose'' your money is a serious one. You should share this story on the Frey facebook-group as well.
Those are all very good questions. This is the last message I receive from Alibaba.

“For your order 34740039001022252 , refund amount 4180.00 USD
ARN: 74064180310060074565463
ARN: 35505900310060073863264
Please use these 2 arn to check , thanks ,contact your bank to check , if your bank can not find , please ask them to help youe escalate to visa or master”

So their trade assurance is recommending a charge back (escalate) which I fear might be difficult as the purchase was on 10 Apr 2020.
OK gang, an update. I’ve now been accused of fraud by Cecelia for initiating a credit card dispute. Alibaba.com ,it seems, refunded my order completely according to Frey for both a CC and EX Pro.

The problem is I’m still out $471 after my credit card deducted that amount which was a previous Customs/shipping settlement from the $3,600 I was owed for a $4180 EX Pro which alibaba.com had refunded me $580. Yes, confusing. The communication with Cecilia improved as she changed from “what’s my problem” tone as I think she might finally believe me. That or her realization she might require my assistance for Frey to be made whole from Alibaba. I will tell yee what I told her, I don’t want anything that I didn’t pay for.

I thought I would never see the $3,600 so I was somewhat relieved to get $3128.50 of it and let the thing die and chalk the $471 up to a lesson learned.

As things stand now. I have the CC and am owed $471 approaching the one year anniversary of a EX Pro order in Apr 20. The CC is super loud and heavy but other than that ok.....wouldn’t jump through hoops for it and of course will never attempt anything like this again.

This could have all been avoided if Frey would communicate their issues and issue a refund if they can’t fulfill an order. That does not seem to be their style. I have learned that once they are the ones out some money I have their full attention. Sadly for the first time since I pushed the pay button.

Mountgreenwood   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb 23 2019 7:10am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mountgreenwood » Mar 29 2021 8:56am

Ivy,

You repeatedly rejected my requests for a refund when you couldn’t or wouldn’t ship the EX Pro 205 days into a 187 contract. You caused Alibaba.com and my credit card company to get involved. Their solution is you losing 2 bikes for yourself and $471 for me. Not to mention the continued aggravation you continue to chose to cause me. I’m happy to share this experience with any prospective buyers so they know what can happen to their money once sent to Frey/Alibaba.

FREYebikes   100 W

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Posts: 195
Joined: Dec 20 2017 11:52pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 31 2021 12:09am

Hi,

We have refunded as how confirmed with you and you can see the records. and the refund was released in time as how it processed.
we have done orders on Alibaba for more than 4 years. all trasctions goes how they should be. As we have done all we can in our side, so you should check with your bank about your card that it is impossible for us to get contact from our side. do you mean the bank keep the refund from our side? if so, what's the reason? it is very strange.

Mountgreenwood   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb 23 2019 7:10am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mountgreenwood » Mar 31 2021 9:35am

Ivy,

You did not refund me for the EX Pro. Why don’t you share screen shots of you rejecting my refund requests? I was forced to arbitration with Alibaba through the trade assurance protection. Alibaba then refunded me just $580. Alibaba claimed the full amount was sent, it was not. My credit card intervened and credited me $3,128.50 pending the investigation.

If I ever get one penny over the $471(customs refund) and the $123.81(Alibaba payment fee) I am owed I will post it to you via a check. I will gladly post a picture of the canceled check here.

$580+$3128.50+471.50=$4180.00 is what I have received so far. $471.50 from you for the CC fees (not the EX Pro refund), $580 from Alibaba.com then $3128.50 from my credit card company.

I actually paid $4,303.31 for the EX Pro. So I am actually out $471.50 plus $123.81 to Alibaba for transaction fees. $595.31. This thread looks to be dying which is good news as some perspective buyers may be saved from all the aggravation that a Frey purchase entails.

FREYebikes   100 W

100 W
Posts: 195
Joined: Dec 20 2017 11:52pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Apr 02 2021 12:37am

Hi,

If there is some difference info between us. please write by email to us with your detailed records. So then we can check it.
We always done what we confirmed. but it should be clear to each other.
Another point you should understand, payment fee is not included for refund. different payment term is different cost, TT charged around 15-30USD/ payment, credit card is charged by the order amount in certain point, related to the bank, afford by buyer. Hope you understand it.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang
Mountgreenwood wrote:
Mar 31 2021 9:35am
Ivy,

You did not refund me for the EX Pro. Why don’t you share screen shots of you rejecting my refund requests? I was forced to arbitration with Alibaba through the trade assurance protection. Alibaba then refunded me just $580. Alibaba claimed the full amount was sent, it was not. My credit card intervened and credited me $3,128.50 pending the investigation.

If I ever get one penny over the $471(customs refund) and the $123.81(Alibaba payment fee) I am owed I will post it to you via a check. I will gladly post a picture of the canceled check here.

$580+$3128.50+471.50=$4180.00 is what I have received so far. $471.50 from you for the CC fees (not the EX Pro refund), $580 from Alibaba.com then $3128.50 from my credit card company.

I actually paid $4,303.31 for the EX Pro. So I am actually out $471.50 plus $123.81 to Alibaba for transaction fees. $595.31. This thread looks to be dying which is good news as some perspective buyers may be saved from all the aggravation that a Frey purchase entails.

Swannking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 32
Joined: May 03 2020 1:23pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Swannking » Apr 22 2021 9:30am

Does anyone know how to reset the odometer in the DPC-18 display? I’m missing the factory setting from the main menu and was only able to reset the trip data using the trip reset.

machuni   10 µW

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Posts: 5
Joined: May 21 2021 1:54pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by machuni » May 21 2021 8:43pm

Anyone know of a replacement battery for the AM1000? I'm interested in getting the WW Archon X1 Controller, but the Frey Battery continuous amps is 20 and max is 30. For the Archon X1 Controller 2200 nominal, 3000 peak, the battery has to put out at least 50a continuous and 60a peak. Is there a battery that would fit the AM1000 that would work? Or should I figure out how to change the BMS?

TNC   1 W

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Posts: 51
Joined: May 03 2021 11:07am
Location: Texas

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by TNC » May 22 2021 11:15am

Ecyclist wrote:
Feb 16 2021 12:46pm
zoumerela wrote:
Feb 16 2021 11:06am
Grantmac wrote:
Feb 14 2021 6:23pm

Buy a trials bike and if necesssary add a longride seat. It'll do things the Frey couldn't imagine doing and cost the same or less.
I did buy a trials bike exactly for that reason - I found no offroad bike that is "ready to ride" and not "ready to race" so I thought a trials bike might do the trick. I personally found it very uncomfortable to ride, even with the longseat. The geometry was not made for long and cosy tours in nature, and quite frankly it was quite dangerous with all that endless torque paired on a super light handlebar. I almost hurt myself with it. So I sold it. The next toy on my wish list is an eMTB, but I really still want it to be an MTB and not an electric motorcycle and I just do not understand where the line crosses between the 2 categories :D
What you need to do is find yourself a used mountain bike that you love and do a medium power conversion.
That is exactly what I did. My bike with everything on it including 70 miles range battery is 38 lbs.
These Chinese bikes are just too heavy. They are 70-80 lbs. :shock: Maybe this is a price per pound type of deal? :oops:
I just don't understand why people pay so much money for them. :roll:
Avian with the battey installed..JPG
I'm in agreement with you on the issue of converting a good...and I mean "good"...full suspension MTB with one of the mid-drive options. I was very hesitant to do this as I thought it would be a big disappointment compared to the factory Trek and Specialized emtb's we sell at the shop I work at. Markup is not that big on bicycles, so even as an employee it was a big chunk of money to go that route if I wanted the best suspension components.

I installed a BBSHD on an '08 Santa Cruz Nomad that has a 160mm coil fork and a DH style coil rear shock. This bike is used solely for mountain biking on trails that have decent technical aspects. The around 50-pound total weight of this bike is not really noticeable on the trail...in fact I'd say it contributes to a beneficial level of increased stability where you don't get knocked off your line as much as a lighter pedal-only bike...much like why a dirt motorcycle is very stable on a trail. My Nomad has a 26" rear wheel and the Fox 36 fork can run a huge 26" tire or a 2.35 27.5 tire. I'm noticing with the pedal assist that the rollover capability is not as big an issue compared to the 29'er because you have more than our wimpy human power, so stalling out on an obstacle isn't as common.

I'm not really having any ground clearance issues on the Nomad. It's only a tiny bit lower than the 42T Luna Eclipse chainring. If I were constantly running in extreme rock gardens or trying to jump up on to sizeable ledges, I think most of these conversions could be problem...but then I wouldn't want to be smashing my Bosch motor on those ledges either. However, I measured the ground clearance on our shop's Trek Rail 7 with inside-the-frame Bosch motor, and it was the same clearance as my Nomad. Also someone mentioned the power of the BBSHD perhaps being too much for off road. With the program cable I was able to soften up the power delivery using a lot of good guidance from many of the forums. So, with some actual trail time on the bike at this point, I have to say I'm fairly well shocked how good this package turned out. Smooth power delivery and shut-off, ease of switching power levels on the fly, and the sheer power when needed/wanted have been more than I expected out of this motor. Now, if Bafang offered the Ultra motor with torque sensing in a similar conversion package, I'd pick one up in second.

barbarossa   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » May 22 2021 12:42pm

machuni wrote:
May 21 2021 8:43pm
Anyone know of a replacement battery for the AM1000? I'm interested in getting the WW Archon X1 Controller, but the Frey Battery continuous amps is 20 and max is 30. For the Archon X1 Controller 2200 nominal, 3000 peak, the battery has to put out at least 50a continuous and 60a peak. Is there a battery that would fit the AM1000 that would work? Or should I figure out how to change the BMS?
the good thing: orginal Frey Reention Dorado Max 6pin discharge connector will withstand up to 70 amps peaks without any problems - I run this combination for a long time.
but the problem: I don't know any supplier that offers the necessary BMS/cell combination for a Reention Max case. so finally I have built my own battery. I use 14s5p and a Neptune 15 BMS. you will have to change both cells and BMS.
so, yes, I know of a replacement battery :D battery of my good old Version2 Frey AM1000 in this picture does the job:
AM1000.JPG
AM1000.JPG (379.77 KiB) Viewed 464 times
this Frey AM1000 runs with the 3500watts peak version of Innotrace=Archon X1 controller, taking a little under 70 amps peak max:
BMS_INNO_3500.JPG
BMS_INNO_3500.JPG (66.58 KiB) Viewed 464 times
for those who read this thread for a longer time period: my Frey EX was stolen last year but now I have a new one :D :
FreyEX.JPG
FreyEX.JPG (478.45 KiB) Viewed 464 times
instead of Innotrace controller I use an ASI BAC 855 hidden in downtube (using the old Frey AM1000 motor with hall sensors) with 2x36v batteries for the Frey EX and now it is a real fun - the power band is really crazy but also absolutely smooth, taking around 5200-5300 watts - this was my goal last year - but of course with a stolen bike I could not realize it.
EggRider.JPG
EggRider.JPG (58.9 KiB) Viewed 464 times

machuni   10 µW

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Joined: May 21 2021 1:54pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by machuni » May 22 2021 8:10pm

barbarossa wrote:
May 22 2021 12:42pm
machuni wrote:
May 21 2021 8:43pm
Anyone know of a replacement battery for the AM1000? I'm interested in getting the WW Archon X1 Controller, but the Frey Battery continuous amps is 20 and max is 30. For the Archon X1 Controller 2200 nominal, 3000 peak, the battery has to put out at least 50a continuous and 60a peak. Is there a battery that would fit the AM1000 that would work? Or should I figure out how to change the BMS?
the good thing: orginal Frey Reention Dorado Max 6pin discharge connector will withstand up to 70 amps peaks without any problems - I run this combination for a long time.
but the problem: I don't know any supplier that offers the necessary BMS/cell combination for a Reention Max case. so finally I have built my own battery. I use 14s5p and a Neptune 15 BMS. you will have to change both cells and BMS.
so, yes, I know of a replacement battery :D battery of my good old Version2 Frey AM1000 in this picture does the job:
AM1000.JPG
this Frey AM1000 runs with the 3500watts peak version of Innotrace=Archon X1 controller, taking a little under 70 amps peak max:
BMS_INNO_3500.JPG

for those who read this thread for a longer time period: my Frey EX was stolen last year but now I have a new one :D :
FreyEX.JPG
instead of Innotrace controller I use an ASI BAC 855 hidden in downtube (using the old Frey AM1000 motor with hall sensors) with 2x36v batteries for the Frey EX and now it is a real fun - the power band is really crazy but also absolutely smooth, taking around 5200-5300 watts - this was my goal last year - but of course with a stolen bike I could not realize it.
EggRider.JPG
Cool. So can I buy a 14s5p battery already made and slip that into a Dorado case with the Nexus 15? Or do I have to make it? Because I don't have the equipment to do that.

barbarossa   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » May 23 2021 11:35pm

machuni wrote:
May 22 2021 8:10pm
Cool. So can I buy a 14s5p battery already made and slip that into a Dorado case with the Nexus 15? Or do I have to make it? Because I don't have the equipment to do that.
it is not that easy. dorado battery has to be built new from scratch - with high discharge cells, e.g. Sony VTC6, Sony VTC5a and stronger serial connections and wiring. anyways you recognized the problem of this high powered controllers: the battery.
perhaps you can ask Wattwagons or a battery supplier to build a custom Reention Dorado Max battery with high discharge cells and 60amps BMS (that normally also takes higher peaks) and 6pin discharge connector. to be honest : because I build my own batteries I never really thought about the problem to get such a battery at the normal market. all I can say: it is possible which means there are no fundamental problems regading the Frey AM1000 battery setup that would stop someone from building a battery for Innotrace/X1 controller @3000watts or more.
another solution might be to buy the 2200w/3000w X1 controller with USB dongle and use the X1 config tool to reduce battery amps to 30-40 amps until having a better battery...

machuni   10 µW

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Joined: May 21 2021 1:54pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by machuni » May 24 2021 4:20pm

barbarossa wrote:
May 23 2021 11:35pm
machuni wrote:
May 22 2021 8:10pm
Cool. So can I buy a 14s5p battery already made and slip that into a Dorado case with the Nexus 15? Or do I have to make it? Because I don't have the equipment to do that.
it is not that easy. dorado battery has to be built new from scratch - with high discharge cells, e.g. Sony VTC6, Sony VTC5a and stronger serial connections and wiring. anyways you recognized the problem of this high powered controllers: the battery.
perhaps you can ask Wattwagons or a battery supplier to build a custom Reention Dorado Max battery with high discharge cells and 60amps BMS (that normally also takes higher peaks) and 6pin discharge connector. to be honest : because I build my own batteries I never really thought about the problem to get such a battery at the normal market. all I can say: it is possible which means there are no fundamental problems regading the Frey AM1000 battery setup that would stop someone from building a battery for Innotrace/X1 controller @3000watts or more.
another solution might be to buy the 2200w/3000w X1 controller with USB dongle and use the X1 config tool to reduce battery amps to 30-40 amps until having a better battery...
Thanks for the helpful information. I've been in talks with Jenny Mao of Shanghai Aijiu Energy, who has been super lovely to talk to, and she's working on coming up with cells and a BMS that supports 60A that fits into REENTION's new 21700 case. Fingers crossed they're able to do it!

Also, I'm assuming that if I'm going the 14s5p configuration, the cells have to be able to discharge at least 15 amps?

On a side note, I've found Frey's lack of effort and communication around this really frustrating. For a boutique "customize every option" bike maker, it's annoying that there's no way for them to even attempt a larger BMS and/or different cells even though they put it together in-house, so I'm going to have to go to a different battery manufacture to spend even more money on a battery that I'll actually use. And their response rate for my battery questions is pretty poor--it's like two-three days. Jenny's responsiveness and effort into finding a solution (even if it doesn't happen) has made me much more aware of Frey's lack thereof.

machuni   10 µW

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Posts: 5
Joined: May 21 2021 1:54pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by machuni » May 26 2021 4:50am

barbarossa wrote:
May 23 2021 11:35pm
machuni wrote:
May 22 2021 8:10pm
Cool. So can I buy a 14s5p battery already made and slip that into a Dorado case with the Nexus 15? Or do I have to make it? Because I don't have the equipment to do that.
it is not that easy. dorado battery has to be built new from scratch - with high discharge cells, e.g. Sony VTC6, Sony VTC5a and stronger serial connections and wiring. anyways you recognized the problem of this high powered controllers: the battery.
perhaps you can ask Wattwagons or a battery supplier to build a custom Reention Dorado Max battery with high discharge cells and 60amps BMS (that normally also takes higher peaks) and 6pin discharge connector. to be honest : because I build my own batteries I never really thought about the problem to get such a battery at the normal market. all I can say: it is possible which means there are no fundamental problems regading the Frey AM1000 battery setup that would stop someone from building a battery for Innotrace/X1 controller @3000watts or more.
another solution might be to buy the 2200w/3000w X1 controller with USB dongle and use the X1 config tool to reduce battery amps to 30-40 amps until having a better battery...
Have you looked at the Molicel P26A? They're about half the price on 18650 battery store and rated at 35A continuous discharge?

barbarossa   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » May 26 2021 11:49pm

machuni wrote:
May 26 2021 4:50am
barbarossa wrote:
May 23 2021 11:35pm
machuni wrote:
May 22 2021 8:10pm
Cool. So can I buy a 14s5p battery already made and slip that into a Dorado case with the Nexus 15? Or do I have to make it? Because I don't have the equipment to do that.
it is not that easy. dorado battery has to be built new from scratch - with high discharge cells, e.g. Sony VTC6, Sony VTC5a and stronger serial connections and wiring. anyways you recognized the problem of this high powered controllers: the battery.
perhaps you can ask Wattwagons or a battery supplier to build a custom Reention Dorado Max battery with high discharge cells and 60amps BMS (that normally also takes higher peaks) and 6pin discharge connector. to be honest : because I build my own batteries I never really thought about the problem to get such a battery at the normal market. all I can say: it is possible which means there are no fundamental problems regading the Frey AM1000 battery setup that would stop someone from building a battery for Innotrace/X1 controller @3000watts or more.
another solution might be to buy the 2200w/3000w X1 controller with USB dongle and use the X1 config tool to reduce battery amps to 30-40 amps until having a better battery...
Have you looked at the Molicel P26A? They're about half the price on 18650 battery store and rated at 35A continuous discharge?
first of all a CDR of 15A might be the minimum. I also had a look at the P26A - but of course 35A continous discharge is -let's say- very optimistic. I personally would say P26A is a 25A battery. netherless according to your personal riding style and intended use you have a little more capacity with : LG HG2, Samsung 30Q and Sony VTC6 and a little less capacity at less voltage sag with Samsung 25S, Sony VTC5a, LG H26 and Molicel P26A. In our days it also depends of course which cells are available on the market...

ProphetZarquon   1 µW

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Joined: Jun 02 2021 7:51pm

Started my countdown?! Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by ProphetZarquon » Jun 02 2021 9:00pm

:lol: After much reading online (including the woes & joys in this very thread), every competing ebike I found (meaning competitive in componentry and price), was not available this April. (Of which only one was really in the same price range as equipped anyway.)

Edit: It should be noted that our plan is to use this ebike as a reference point to learn what works for our split use-cases & what doesn't. Long private trail rides are an essential aspect, but ultimately if this ebike proves maintainable, we hope to make it just the first of a small electric fleet, registrations & all. Functional ("high powered") electric bikes are shockingly rare under current regulations.

I do mostly city riding in a city where the streets often resemble simulated lunar craters, where unlicensed contraptions roll around through red lights every few blocks, & where anyone actually riding safely barely gets a second glance. ("E-Bike" regulations here are openly admitted to be inadequate for real needs & a stance of encouraging any alternative to big combustion powered SingleOccupancyVehicles is frequently cited.) When I ride technical trails, it's most likely on my Trek Gary Fisher 29er. When I cross town, it's most likely on my 29er. When it's too hot, or the route is covered in icy ruts, I... would really like a motor to assist me. I wanted a fat tire, but my primary concern is RANGE, & I'm a big guy (~6'10"/208cm by 252lbs/114kg), who tends to carry at least a few dozen pounds of cargo. A bike that's heavy all by itself, is a pain to ride, so I wanted something that could help me up more than a handful of hills without overheating or battery death or both. I wanted full suspension & a mid-drive because hub motors don't fit the heavy abuse I dish out. I wanted decent components & if a SRAM gearset failed, maybe I'd try that expensive hub everyone kept lauding.

To get an ebike which assuaged my concerns more than the AM1000, it seemed I might end up spending at least $1000 more. The AM1000 just looked like a list of components I wanted anyway. The EX potentially looked even better, but the price was higher than the AM1000, which was already more than I could really spend...

So I bought the AM1000. Yes, after reading about all the recent shipping issues, and the other ebikes I could have bought/built. After a year of economic crises compounded by COVID shutdowns, I am neither surprised by, nor unused to, delays: "Eventually" sounds better than "No" right now.

When I first spoke to Cecilia Li about via Alibaba this April 15th 2021, she said they were operating at a 3 month production backlog.

I didn't opt for the Lyric shock (really hope I won't need it), but I did select the throttle, lights, gear sensor, fenders, a rear rack, & a second 1008Wh battery. They're using SRAM not Shimano gearsets right now.

After compiling a prospective order, reconsidering my alternatives several times, & then having to wait until banking hours to get the transaction to go through, I placed my order, with $600 ground shipping including tax (per Alibaba). I paid for a 10% credit card transaction fee and Alibaba's production monitoring (which probably won't work, given the timescales, but we'll see!). The order, placed on the 21st of May 2021, states that the product is expected to ship within... 150 days.

If I get to ride it in the snow this winter, that's still sooner than I could have afforded most of the "comparable" bikes!

Next spring, I have my eyes on a 2hr40min 35 mile +2700ft ride. Think I can do it with two batteries & a non-competitive level of pedaling? (Downhill, I think for sure?)

4 months is long enough to wait, plus shipping. I really hope everything arrives "on time", and intact! I wish the small staff at Frey good fortune, sharp minds, steady hands, and strong backs, getting all their bikes together!

Code: Select all

Please wish me luck with this new Frey AM1000 I've just ordered, 
& I'll try to keep everyone here posted on how it goes! 
(Also via Reddit & YouTube, but who uses those? ;)

Limbs   1 W

1 W
Posts: 51
Joined: Sep 03 2020 4:11pm

Re: Started my countdown?! Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Limbs » Jun 03 2021 6:03pm

ProphetZarquon wrote:
Jun 02 2021 9:00pm
Next spring, I have my eyes on a 2hr40min 35 mile +2700ft ride. Think I can do it with two batteries & a non-competitive level of pedaling? (Downhill, I think for sure?)
I'd say that, as long as you use your gears correctly, you should easily make that without pedalling & with a bit of pedal assistance, you'd pretty much make it with only one battery.......but carry the spare just in case! ;)

2old   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1375
Joined: Jul 19 2014 3:20pm
Location: Socal

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 2old » Jun 04 2021 8:49am

Limbs, congratulations; you have more faith and patience than I. Will be interested in your progress.

chilau2000   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 44
Joined: Apr 27 2014 6:38pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by chilau2000 » Jun 09 2021 8:33am

machuni wrote:
May 24 2021 4:20pm
barbarossa wrote:
May 23 2021 11:35pm
machuni wrote:
May 22 2021 8:10pm
Cool. So can I buy a 14s5p battery already made and slip that into a Dorado case with the Nexus 15? Or do I have to make it? Because I don't have the equipment to do that.
it is not that easy. dorado battery has to be built new from scratch - with high discharge cells, e.g. Sony VTC6, Sony VTC5a and stronger serial connections and wiring. anyways you recognized the problem of this high powered controllers: the battery.
perhaps you can ask Wattwagons or a battery supplier to build a custom Reention Dorado Max battery with high discharge cells and 60amps BMS (that normally also takes higher peaks) and 6pin discharge connector. to be honest : because I build my own batteries I never really thought about the problem to get such a battery at the normal market. all I can say: it is possible which means there are no fundamental problems regading the Frey AM1000 battery setup that would stop someone from building a battery for Innotrace/X1 controller @3000watts or more.
another solution might be to buy the 2200w/3000w X1 controller with USB dongle and use the X1 config tool to reduce battery amps to 30-40 amps until having a better battery...
Thanks for the helpful information. I've been in talks with Jenny Mao of Shanghai Aijiu Energy, who has been super lovely to talk to, and she's working on coming up with cells and a BMS that supports 60A that fits into REENTION's new 21700 case. Fingers crossed they're able to do it!

Also, I'm assuming that if I'm going the 14s5p configuration, the cells have to be able to discharge at least 15 amps?

On a side note, I've found Frey's lack of effort and communication around this really frustrating. For a boutique "customize every option" bike maker, it's annoying that there's no way for them to even attempt a larger BMS and/or different cells even though they put it together in-house, so I'm going to have to go to a different battery manufacture to spend even more money on a battery that I'll actually use. And their response rate for my battery questions is pretty poor--it's like two-three days. Jenny's responsiveness and effort into finding a solution (even if it doesn't happen) has made me much more aware of Frey's lack thereof.
Let me know how this plans out for you, I'm also interested in a high discharge 52V 21700 cells pack for my AM1000.

ProphetZarquon   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 02 2021 7:51pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by ProphetZarquon » Jun 12 2021 8:44am

Limbs wrote:
Jun 03 2021 6:03pm
ProphetZarquon wrote:
Jun 02 2021 9:00pm
Next spring, I have my eyes on a 2hr40min 35 mile +2700ft ride. Think I can do it with two batteries & a non-competitive level of pedaling? (Downhill, I think for sure?)
I'd say that, as long as you use your gears correctly, you should easily make that without pedalling & with a bit of pedal assistance, you'd pretty much make it with only one battery.......but carry the spare just in case! ;)
Nice! In reading & watching ebike comparison review after review I'm amazed\appalled how many mention varying levels of pedal assist response on bikes with identical motors, yet fail to mention controller programming or that some are programmable.

Looking at the "Smooth" tuning mentioned here & investigating the decay, % speed, 0-speed start timing, & Delta Voltage settings, I have some ideas of my own about how to tune it so I'm not engaging >750 Watts unnecessarily.

For starters, if I'm able to get a mV reading off the realtime torque measurement field, I'll probably try to set the <10% speed Start Kg & the Delta Voltage range for "0-5Kg" extra high, so neither of my jumbo legs produce a bunch of pedal assist just from resting on the front of the crank. That said, I'm hoping this setting can let me tweak the "Kg" reported by the torque sensor enough to get readings of torque above 60Kg.

I also suspect that once tuned I'll only really need a few PAS levels, so although my plan is for "0" to get the 1&1 % settings for near-unassisted riding, my hope is to set it up so that "1" will have a low speed limit but unlimited power, "3" & "5" will be for actual power conservation, & "7" & "9" will aim for maximum output; ideally with 3 & 7 demanding more effort per Wh of assist, & with 5 & 9 being lazy mode.
2old wrote:
Jun 04 2021 8:49am
Limbs, congratulations; you have more faith and patience than I. Will be interested in your progress.
It was either order a Frey AM1000 now & wait, or buy a lot less bike for similar price range, or spend another $1000 I don't have, or wait for unavailable ebikes to (hopefully) become available... My current choices essentially seemed to be either "later", or "no", so I chose the one that might get me up an ice rutted ravine by this winter... Lots of patience, sure. (Heck, I've been "researching" this purchase for a few decades, why rush now?) And certainly I hope to be riding a Frey by Halloween, but I do try to avoid the folly of unfounded faith. ;P

If I'm riding it this time next year with less than two broken parts, I'll consider that a win.

"Sorry I'm a bit late" - Prophet Zarquon

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