My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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Kormyr   1 mW

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Joined: Dec 02 2020 9:26am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Kormyr » Aug 30 2021 2:51am

Kormyr wrote:
Aug 27 2021 2:38am
Saymon Vasilman wrote:
Jul 26 2021 6:34am
I asked the manufacturer Frey about the new CANbus motors. They said that in the near future all ULTRA motors will be with CANbus. This will not allow programming the motor or using the EGGrider. :cry:
Speaking of EggRider, I have 1 on my EX with dual battery, and remaining % is completely off.
For example:
1) I start with 100%, then after 5min of moderate ride it shows 89%, when I turn it off and on again it goes back to 96%.
2) After a 20km ride it goes all the way from 100% to 0%, then 60-70% after rebooting

I did not do any modification on the settings, is there a place where I can set the battery capacity?
Nevermind I found the setting, just needed to read the manual.
In the display option you can enter the Ah (28 for dual battery), then % is ok.

I have another question though. I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?

ProphetZarquon   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by ProphetZarquon » Aug 30 2021 11:38am

...
Today I received overseas & FedEx tracking info:

Oh ship!
A cargo vessel carrying the Frey AM1000 we ordered, is scheduled to depart tomorrow; expected to arrive at port in California by the 12th.

This ebike was originally scheduled to *ship* by Oct 16th, so I'm feeling pretty good about it!
Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 2:51am
I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?

Off-hand, first stop-gap workaround I think of, is "run the primary battery down a bit before connecting secondary, with the EggRider display connected"; but that's hardly safe, to pair discharged with charged! ...?

barbarossa   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 30 2021 12:46pm

Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 2:51am
I have another question though. I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?
mmmhhh... if your battery is set at 54,6 volts at EggRider display settings you can check it by using full throttle and then immediatley release throttle - in that case the voltage spike will happen. it could be that internal cap of EggRiderr or SW102 is too small to handle remaining voltage spikes but normally controllers cap should make it flat. I only tested DPC18 display and a controller without the cap to see the voltage spikes.
anyways I would not recommend dual battery parallel configuration with diodes in the long run - there are also other reasons. I removed the diodes and changed the setup to a serial connection. so I can use 2x 36v internal/external or 1x 52v internal - in case of using only 1x 52v internal I simply short the connection of external battery (shown in my photo), of course 72v not possible with original controller but e.g. 2x 7s = 14s would be possible. so I have no different cell aging problem (in case of using sometimes only internal battery) and no diodes heat problem and no other problems (back EMF regen power has to go somewhere and it can't go back to the battery) . I would say a perfect solution (for me :D ).
short_52v_FreyEX.JPG
short_52v_FreyEX.JPG (201.29 KiB) Viewed 283 times

Kormyr   1 mW

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Joined: Dec 02 2020 9:26am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Kormyr » Aug 30 2021 1:54pm

barbarossa wrote:
Aug 30 2021 12:46pm
Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 2:51am
I have another question though. I had a "display overvoltage" message on my EggRider.
I found this post in this topic that seem to give an explanation on this issue: viewtopic.php?p=1589744#p1589744
If I understand correctly, using EggRider with the stock Frey dual battery configuration could cause damage to the EggRider display.
I'm not an expert so can someone explain if there is something that could be done to prevent damages to the display, without voiding any warranty?
mmmhhh... if your battery is set at 54,6 volts at EggRider display settings you can check it by using full throttle and then immediatley release throttle - in that case the voltage spike will happen. it could be that internal cap of EggRiderr or SW102 is too small to handle remaining voltage spikes but normally controllers cap should make it flat. I only tested DPC18 display and a controller without the cap to see the voltage spikes.
anyways I would not recommend dual battery parallel configuration with diodes in the long run - there are also other reasons. I removed the diodes and changed the setup to a serial connection. so I can use 2x 36v internal/external or 1x 52v internal - in case of using only 1x 52v internal I simply short the connection of external battery (shown in my photo), of course 72v not possible with original controller but e.g. 2x 7s = 14s would be possible. so I have no different cell aging problem (in case of using sometimes only internal battery) and no diodes heat problem and no other problems (back EMF regen power has to go somewhere and it can't go back to the battery) . I would say a perfect solution (for me :D ).
short_52v_FreyEX.JPG
I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?

barbarossa   100 W

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Joined: Jul 21 2018 4:18pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 30 2021 2:54pm

Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 1:54pm

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?
first of all this message is obvious when full throttle and then complete release and back EMF power is high/long enough to show the error - but these voltage spikes happen at any time you release any power by pas or throttle it does not matter - and overvoltage goes back to controller - it can't go anywhere else caused by the diodes. my assumption: you don't have the EggRider for a very long time ?
my next assumption: one day these voltage spikes might kill your EggRider and perhaps your controller (better said your upper controller part's DC/DC converter - low voltage 5v line). so yes, your assumption in your first post was right - it probably will damage EggRider and perhaps even your controller. I highly recommend to use the DPC18 again which can "eat" the overvoltage and won't transfer it back to the controller. but hey, I could be wrong and it will work forever... I never tested it but logically thought this might be the consequence...

Kormyr   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Kormyr » Aug 30 2021 3:41pm

barbarossa wrote:
Aug 30 2021 2:54pm
Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 1:54pm

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?
first of all this message is obvious when full throttle and then complete release and back EMF power is high/long enough to show the error - but these voltage spikes happen at any time you release any power by pas or throttle it does not matter - and overvoltage goes back to controller - it can't go anywhere else caused by the diodes. my assumption: you don't have the EggRider for a very long time ?
my next assumption: one day these voltage spikes might kill your EggRider and perhaps your controller (better said your upper controller part's DC/DC converter - low voltage 5v line). so yes, your assumption in your first post was right - it probably will damage EggRider and perhaps even your controller. I highly recommend to use the DPC18 again which can "eat" the overvoltage and won't transfer it back to the controller. but hey, I could be wrong and it will work forever... I never tested it but logically thought this might be the consequence...
Thanks for all these details.
For the moment I will use the bike in single battery configuration just to be on the safe side.
I hope that later there will be a device that provides the same features as EggRider but with DPC-18 level of protection.
A software or physical switch between batteries would have been enough for me, I am a bit disappointed by this "incompatibility" between Frey Dual Battery and EggRider...

barbarossa   100 W

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Joined: Jul 21 2018 4:18pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 30 2021 4:35pm

Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 3:41pm
barbarossa wrote:
Aug 30 2021 2:54pm
Kormyr wrote:
Aug 30 2021 1:54pm

I think that the message appeared after this exact scenario. Full throttle and then complete release.
It means that for standard pedal assist this issue should not happen?
If yes, I may just refrain from using the throttle and let it as it is. Or just be more gentle with the throttle.

I have also another question for urban users. Which tyres do you recommend for speed and power efficiency on road only use?
first of all this message is obvious when full throttle and then complete release and back EMF power is high/long enough to show the error - but these voltage spikes happen at any time you release any power by pas or throttle it does not matter - and overvoltage goes back to controller - it can't go anywhere else caused by the diodes. my assumption: you don't have the EggRider for a very long time ?
my next assumption: one day these voltage spikes might kill your EggRider and perhaps your controller (better said your upper controller part's DC/DC converter - low voltage 5v line). so yes, your assumption in your first post was right - it probably will damage EggRider and perhaps even your controller. I highly recommend to use the DPC18 again which can "eat" the overvoltage and won't transfer it back to the controller. but hey, I could be wrong and it will work forever... I never tested it but logically thought this might be the consequence...
Thanks for all these details.
For the moment I will use the bike in single battery configuration just to be on the safe side.
I hope that later there will be a device that provides the same features as EggRider but with DPC-18 level of protection.
A software or physical switch between batteries would have been enough for me, I am a bit disappointed by this "incompatibility" between Frey Dual Battery and EggRider...
unfortunately it is not that easy and NOT depending on single or dual battery configuration. Each battery has its own diode - there are 2 diodes. so the problem occurs in single and dual configuration unless you remove internal's battery diode in single battery configuration. or easy said: "incompatibility" between Frey Dual AND Single Battery and EggRider...

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Stealth_Chopper   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stealth_Chopper » Sep 01 2021 9:38pm

You already bought & waiting delivery, seems to be depreciating by the day.
🍿
ProphetZarquon wrote:
Jul 28 2021 1:46pm
Saymon Vasilman wrote:
Jul 26 2021 6:34am
I asked the manufacturer Frey about the new CANbus motors. They said that in the near future all ULTRA motors will be with CANbus. This will not allow programming the motor or using the EGGrider. :cry:
Any idea whether "in the near future" means 'bikes we're still putting together now', or whether it means 'we expect to start using those soon, so order one of the remaining old ones ASAP'?

Perhaps a better question would be "Do you have any UART programmable G510s in stock & if so how many of those could we order right now?" ;D

At the time I asked about programmability on the AM1000, Frey offered a programming cable which I did add to our order, but the lot is not due to ship until middle of October... If it doesn't support the settings I asked about I'll be sorely disappointed! (In particular, the PAS & Torque tabs.)

As it is, feels like Bafang is killing much of the appeal of their motors in the future; or at least their controllers? (Do they even sell Ultras without a controller? I didn't see that on their site.) Without the ability to fine-tune a motor's response for each bike+rider setup (or even for changes to that setup!) they'll underperform chronically, & then be all the more worthless for use on other builds. I can't imagine a locked down CANBus motor retaining anywhere near the resale value of a UART programmable one.

I would not choose to buy a bike with a Bafang drive that cannot be tuned.

ProphetZarquon   100 µW

100 µW
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Joined: Jun 02 2021 7:51pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by ProphetZarquon » Sep 09 2021 1:29am

Stealth_Chopper wrote:
Sep 01 2021 9:38pm
You already bought & waiting delivery, seems to be depreciating by the day.
🍿
ProphetZarquon wrote:
Jul 28 2021 1:46pm
Saymon Vasilman wrote:
Jul 26 2021 6:34am
I asked the manufacturer Frey about the new CANbus motors. They said that in the near future all ULTRA motors will be with CANbus. This will not allow programming the motor or using the EGGrider. :cry:
Any idea whether "in the near future" means 'bikes we're still putting together now', or whether it means 'we expect to start using those soon, so order one of the remaining old ones ASAP'?

Perhaps a better question would be "Do you have any UART programmable G510s in stock & if so how many of those could we order right now?" ;D

At the time I asked about programmability on the AM1000, Frey offered a programming cable which I did add to our order, but the lot is not due to ship until middle of October... If it doesn't support the settings I asked about I'll be sorely disappointed! (In particular, the PAS & Torque tabs.)

As it is, feels like Bafang is killing much of the appeal of their motors in the future; or at least their controllers? (Do they even sell Ultras without a controller? I didn't see that on their site.) Without the ability to fine-tune a motor's response for each bike+rider setup (or even for changes to that setup!) they'll underperform chronically, & then be all the more worthless for use on other builds. I can't imagine a locked down CANBus motor retaining anywhere near the resale value of a UART programmable one.

I would not choose to buy a bike with a Bafang drive that cannot be tuned.
Actually, given sparse availability of bike & ebike stuff in general, I'm feeling fine about it: I already knew it might not be programmable, & none of the comparable bikes come with a programmable controller in the first place! Prices are going up not down, batteries are in high demand (& we ordered two large ones that use decent cells), the bike components & e-kit alone are worth the price, & I still haven't seen anything I could afford that I definitely like better.

What I'm dreading is any damage in shipping or missing equipment. If what we ordered reaches FedEx by Oct 15th & is functional once assembled, I'll be satisfied. If it turns out any better than "functional", it'll be happy faces all around. I'm so used to disaster that I'm basically just obsessing over every possible point of failure; but so far it's been fine & the ebike is probably more than sufficient for the dual usage it'll see.

That said... "Uuuugh, port traffic sucks just as bad as commuter traffic! :evil:"

So yeah, pass the popcorn.

Kormyr   1 mW

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Joined: Dec 02 2020 9:26am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Kormyr » Sep 09 2021 4:27pm

After a few hundred kilometers, my stock cassette (Shimano XT M8000) need replacement, the smallest sprocket is damaged.
I searched and found out I can buy only the sprocket and it is quite cheap. I don't know if it is easily replaceable on an existing cassette.
Also I plan to do ~200km per week, so I don't really want to replace it several times per month...

Some of you replaced it with SRAM EX1 which looks like a much better choice, is it really decreasing your cassette consumption?
And do you need the complete set or replacing the cassette and adjusting the existing chain is enough?

Did anybody go ahead and tried a (costly) upgrade with IGH + Gates Carbon Drive on a AM1000 or AM1000EX?
It seems that for the IGH, this one seems perfect for Bafang Ultra: https://kindernay.com/products/complete ... ernay-xiv/
Of course I guess this would mean some tweaking and maybe custom parts to fit correctly.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Sep 09 2021 6:28pm

Kormyr wrote:
Sep 09 2021 4:27pm
Some of you replaced it with SRAM EX1 which looks like a much better choice, is it really decreasing your cassette consumption?
And do you need the complete set or replacing the cassette and adjusting the existing chain is enough?
Hi, I got the ex1 and have gone through 2 cassettes plus 4 sets of the lowest three sprockets (+4 chains) in 8500 km. I change the lowest three sprockets and the chain once they both are worn out.

I do have the older version bafang motor which came with a larger front sprocket (44T), which keeps me out of the smallest 11T. These 11Ts do wear out very quickly but are easy to replace.

Cheers

Kormyr   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Kormyr » Sep 10 2021 12:15am

Thanks for the info.
My usage is almost road only and high speed.
I already upgraded from 40T to 44T and still need to use almost exclusively the lowest sprocket.
I may consider upgrading to 46T (I saw messages about users having this one, but you need to remove the guide), or even 48T (not sure of the biggest one that can fit).

You upgraded the EX1 after getting the bike? Do you have the full set or just the cassette?

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Sep 10 2021 8:28am

Hi,

I have two AM1000s, one has the EX1 from the factory and consist of the complete groupset. The other, another family member uses mainly on roads but not at fast speeds and has the XTM8000.

Upgrading to the largest possible front sprocket might reduce your 11T usage, but will increase stress on the motor. The chain guide is not necessary for on-road use in my opinion as chain drops don't occur often. I've seen up to 46T on AM1000s, and only after modifications a 48T upfront on HT models.

That said, an alternative I found very helpful in reaching higher speeds is to reduce the crank length (not only beneficial for off-road pedal strike reduction), but nowadays both bikes have 152mm cranks which decreased the necessary RPMs significantly. An alternative is to use the motor's high RPM on the throttle to reduce the gearing, but I guess you want to keep pedalling.

Cheers,
hdr cr

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