2000 ft or more in Elevation Climb Club

Since the world is not flat and some people do live on hills 2000+ feet up in elevation from where they travel to and from it makes sense to make ebikes that will handel this efficently at a decent speed for a 6 mile strech up hill. If anyone can do such a round trip of 12 miles or so POST IT. A video and a elevation map of the trip along with watt hours used on the round trip along with bike weight and batteries used may open up a a great testing platform for any new products that may meet any demand other than just commuting in flat areas.As it is there are no products that I know of that will meet this demand carrying a rider of up to 250 lbs vary efficicently.Or make it at all at any speed.
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The video didn't have the wide angle so when climbing the hill it was pointed at the ground too much.The trip included going down to the ocean then back to where I started in 11.1 miles using 6.4 amp hours on 72 volt pack.Also using one gear ratio.You may notice that it took anout 4 amp hours to go about 4 miles up a average 20* grade with a 2000 ft elevation rise in 20 minutes.Now lets see a hub motor ebike do the same with a 26" wheel.

http://tinyurl.com/ynsh69


Here is the video..
http://tinyurl.com/3ad8g2
http://tinyurl.com/yp8378

<img src="http://www.lonestartours.com/web/4-24-06-hill-challenge.jpg">

<img src="http://www.lonestartours.com/web/4-24-06.jpg">

EbikeMaui said:

Since the world is not flat and some people do live on hills 2000+ feet up in elevation from where they travel to and from it makes sense to make ebikes that will handel this efficently at a decent speed for a 6 mile strech up hill. If anyone can do such a round trip of 12 miles or so POST IT. A video and a elevation map of the trip along with watt hours used on the round trip along with bike weight and batteries used may open up a a great testing platform for any new products that may meet any demand other than just commuting in flat areas.As it is there are no products that I know of that will meet this demand carrying a rider of up to 250 lbs vary efficicently.Or make it at all at any speed.
........................................................................................................
The video didn't have the wide angle so when climbing the hill it was pointed at the ground too much.The trip included going down to the ocean then back to where I started in 11.1 miles using 6.4 amp hours on 72 volt pack.Also using one gear ratio.You may notice that it took anout 4 amp hours to go about 4 miles up a average 20* grade with a 2000 ft elevation rise in 20 minutes.Now lets see a hub motor ebike do the same with a 26" wheel.

http://tinyurl.com/ynsh69


Here is the video..
http://tinyurl.com/3ad8g2
http://tinyurl.com/yp8378

Click to expand...

EbikeMaui said:

... on 72 volt pack.Also using one gear ratio.You may notice that it took anout 4 amp hours to go about 4 miles up a average 20* grade with a 2000 ft elevation rise in 20 minutes.Now lets see a hub motor ebike do the same with a 26" wheel.

Click to expand...

Randy has stated:
-an elevation increase of roughly 500 ft per mile.
-an average speed of 12 miles per hour (4 miles in 20 minutes)
-72V pack
-4 amp hours consumed in 4 miles
-this equal 288 watt hours
-this equals 72 watt hours per mile

-----------
my results on a similar slope using a hub motor (as seen on the first chart above):
-elevation increase of 451 feet per mile
-average speed of 18 miles per hour
-48V pack
-65.75 watt hours per mile

randy, according to your own numbers, your machine is both slower and less efficient at 72V climbing up a hill than an X5304 Hub Motor running 48V.

d said:

randy, according to your own numbers, your machine is both slower and less efficient at 72V climbing up a hill than an X5304 Hub Motor running 48V.

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Lowell said:

d said:

randy, according to your own numbers, your machine is both slower and less efficient at 72V climbing up a hill than an X5304 Hub Motor running 48V.

Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Click to expand...

My numbers were averaged over miles of riding up hill on the dirt.Yours are from a 1/3 mile trip pedaling.Lets see a video of you climbing shuch hills for MILES of up hill riding to show your girlscouts a burning hub motor. :lol:

doesn't change the fact your run was slower and less efficient. we're comparing motor efficiency, not battery size. given 2 batteries with an equal number of watt hours, according to your numbers, your bike would travel slower and less distance.

Now lets see a hub motor ebike do the same with a 26" wheel.

Click to expand...

So now hub motors only come in 26" wheels?

Now let's see how an ordinary with a front 404 fares up a 45% climb, huh?

Mathurin said:

Now let's see how an ordinary with a front 404 fares up a 45% climb, huh?

Click to expand...

Top speed, given the wheel size and a 404, so about 100 MPH on level ground?

knightmb said:

Mathurin said:

Now let's see how an ordinary with a front 404 fares up a 45% climb, huh?

Click to expand...

Top speed, given the wheel size and a 404, so about 100 MPH on level ground?

Click to expand...

With, or without RRF???

:lol:

Lowell said:

Now lets see a hub motor ebike do the same with a 26" wheel.

Click to expand...

So now hub motors only come in 26" wheels?

Click to expand...

If you are comparing do it with the same size wheel, on a rockey dirt road , and throw in a few 20* to 30* hills and do 4 miles up hill on a video with the same elevation map I use. :lol: Also 82.85 watt hours per mile on the pile was stated for less than 1 mile. The only thing not even proved was that a hub motor might last on a 98 second ride :lol:
At least do a few miles to take a good avrage before the hub motor burns up.

I still have not seen you provide any proof about the supposed burnt up hub motors you always talk about. On the other hand, who could forget Ken T's smoking disc, aka "burned lump" :lol:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17279&sid=c63c22985809728e2e7a64ee8e5786fe

My X5 will burn your 5lb disc motor any day of the week. What was your 0-100ft time again? 0-40mph? Why don't your videos show any data on the screen like mine do?

Lowell said:

I still have not seen you provide any proof about the supposed burnt up hub motors you always talk about. On the other hand, who could forget Ken T's smoking disc, aka "burned lump" :lol:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17279&sid=c63c22985809728e2e7a64ee8e5786fe

My X5 will burn your 5lb disc motor any day of the week. What was your 0-100ft time again? 0-40mph? Why don't your videos show any data on the screen like mine do?

Click to expand...

Randy built his motor, you bought yours. As for hub motors, look at the huge threads here trying to improve the controller, the controllers are like $200 fuses for the hub motor, they blow thus saving the motor, and also keeping the people who sell controllers very happy.

Yo Karma

That's not true, some controllers have issues at 72V not at lower voltages, this is down mainly to a few bad batches of fets and their associated mounting hardware, I have yet to have any problems with controllers when running below 60V and my main controller has done 5,000 miles now.

The fact is you really would have to go some to burn up a hub motor esp one like lowells, the X5 is a big heavyweight motor, I have never even got one remotely warm, Randy just says this as he knows it will goad a response from people on here, you would have to pump more than 10KW in to an X5 to get it to burn, they run very happily at 2-3KW without even getting mildy warm, none of us run batteries that could feed it to destruction.

Randy always signs off with Efficiency and longevity rule in his signature, but Availability and suitability also rule as well! Hub motors are easily available and are also suitable for most folks as most folks dont need to climb hills Like Randy has.

Randy has made his bike to suit his needs which is fine and nobody is arguing that most off the shelf hub motors would not cut it up the climbs he makes which is also true. There is quite a bit of work in doing what Randy has done, its far beyond the capabilities of most e-bikers who simply want to buy a kit, bolt on and go.

Stealth also rules as well! Randys conversion can never be made to look pretty and you couldn't get a more obviously powered look other than Dave's Insane a cycle, A small geared hub motor such as the Puma would make a perfectly decent hill climber for most and remember 99.999% of the world don't live in such areas that require such efficient hill climbers.

There are pros and cons to all systems, Randys idea is just another idea, it wouldn't sell well in Florida or Holland! like I said suitability! I am sure if e-bikes were legal and Randy was competing against hub motor sellers on the Island he would be the clear winner, but for most of us we live in much more moderate a cooler climates and don't need or worry about efficiency or longevity as much as Randy does.

The fact is I don't think anyone would be retiring on the sales of 0.00001% of the population that live in such areas, mountain goats also generally don't ride bicycles!


Simplicity and Availability also Rule!

Lay on Mac Duff!

Knoxie

lol,

randys posts just run and run.
thats where the logevity must be.

D

deecanio said:

lol,

randys posts just run and run.
thats where the logevity must be.

D

Click to expand...

:lol: tHIS BIKE SURE LOOKS UGLY.a MOTOR OF 5 LBS that would work better for any rider .conditions, with any type of battery would out perform any ebike motor many times its size.The advantage is NO derailer needed and rather larger weight savings.Not to mention battery costs when expensive batteries are used.Too bad there is no ebike market for exceptional ebikes.Untill there is I still will have the only ebike worlds record hill climb to 10,005 feet in elevation.
If a hubmotor would do the same I would buy a fleet of them but IMO they are all a piece of crap unless you have spare controllers or spend $500 on a good one and only use lead acid batteries for short,flat city trips.

EbikeMaui said:

deecanio said:

lol,

randys posts just run and run.
thats where the logevity must be.

D

Click to expand...

.Too bad there is no ebike market for exceptional ebikes.Untill there is I still will have the only ebike worlds record hill climb to 10,005 feet in elevation.

Click to expand...

Well you have answered the question for us all with that Randy, there isnt a Market for exceptional bikes because exceptional bikes are only required in exceptional circumstances! Volcano climbing being this very rare and exceptional circumstance! :lol: :lol: I am glad you are finally seeing the Light now!

Knoxie

the weird thing is Randy's bike is actually quite impressive, but like you say there's not much call for such a system and it's so much easier to just bolt in a hub and go.
im keeping an eye on how your draper build goes, see what all the fuss is about



D

i don't see why randy is still moaning about how his bike is better... we've already shown that his motor at is slower and less efficient climbing a hill than an x5304 at 48V.

his claim that an X5304 motor will "burn up" is quite baseless... i've put my motor and controller through over 1700 miles of riding on some of the steepest hills of san francisco without a single motor or controller issue.

give it up randy... your antics are no longer amusing.

Hi D

It is quite hilarious people naysaying hub motors ability to climb, your videos are some of the best highest speed hill climbs I have ever seen on an e-bike period, you live in the hilliest city in the world with some ridiculous ascents.

You are right Randy wont ever give up on his quest to deride and naysay but we just have to put up with it, the shame of it is he has some good ideas and his concept is sound, its just not right to sell the idea to people in the way that he does it just gets peoples backs up, but at the end of the day I think he likes that!

Cheers

Knoxie

Wow, Randy picked up a nutswinger here...

Instant Karma said:

Lowell said:

I still have not seen you provide any proof about the supposed burnt up hub motors you always talk about. On the other hand, who could forget Ken T's smoking disc, aka "burned lump" :lol:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17279&sid=c63c22985809728e2e7a64ee8e5786fe

My X5 will burn your 5lb disc motor any day of the week. What was your 0-100ft time again? 0-40mph? Why don't your videos show any data on the screen like mine do?

Click to expand...

Randy built his motor, you bought yours. As for hub motors, look at the huge threads here trying to improve the controller, the controllers are like $200 fuses for the hub motor, they blow thus saving the motor, and also keeping the people who sell controllers very happy.

Click to expand...

What does built vs. bought have to do with which one is faster?

As for the controllers, I'd give much better odds to the Crystalyte controller box over a Randymotor. Don't 25% of Randy's motors blow up? :lol:

Instant Karma said:

Lowell said:

I still have not seen you provide any proof about the supposed burnt up hub motors you always talk about. On the other hand, who could forget Ken T's smoking disc, aka "burned lump" :lol:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=17279&sid=c63c22985809728e2e7a64ee8e5786fe

My X5 will burn your 5lb disc motor any day of the week. What was your 0-100ft time again? 0-40mph? Why don't your videos show any data on the screen like mine do?

Click to expand...

Randy built his motor, you bought yours. As for hub motors, look at the huge threads here trying to improve the controller, the controllers are like $200 fuses for the hub motor, they blow thus saving the motor, and also keeping the people who sell controllers very happy.

Click to expand...

Interesting post. So you're a Spin Doctor for A political candidate, right?

Truth is, the percentage of controllers that actualy fail is very small under normal use, and still statisticaly small when being abused the way most of us on thie forum abuse things. Why we have such a large amount of threads on working on the Xlyte controler is because, with a little work, the controller can be pushed way beyond what it was ever ment to do. Its also easy to work on, and easy to fix when some experimental idea goes way wrong.

I'm running mine at 50% over it's rated capacity, and the temp of the heatsink never gets higher than 15 degrees over ambiant. thats the sign of a good and efficent design.

You lose 2 karma points.