A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Get real world experience and user feedback on the electric bicycle products.
User avatar
deepfraught
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Jul 09, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: pants, downunder
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by deepfraught » Jul 22, 2013 8:00 am

Yeah like Lyen I've always heard his name and aware of the presence but never delved deeper =D

12.5Ah is handy in that spot.
I initially wondered but wasn't sure about the chemistry's voltage, maybe it was different, but that is 50V nominal 57.4V charge, is getting towards 20% over the controller electronics 50V voltage rating.
I don't know what tolerance they have, I was hoping 12S would be OK from Ypedal's experience.

Are you intending 14S on an aftermarket controller?
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).

User avatar
Ypedal
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13879
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Moncton NB, Canada
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by Ypedal » Jul 22, 2013 8:22 am

I"m putting my A2B up for sale on the local kijiji very soon, if it does not sell for my asking price i'm opening the motor and going 20S ( 72v ) on a 40 amp 12fet controller.. :P

I have too many bikes and not enough garage space... so .. yeah.
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
http://www.ypedal.com

User avatar
deepfraught
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Jul 09, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: pants, downunder
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by deepfraught » Jul 22, 2013 8:26 am

I'd make it my 4th if you weren't so far away ;)
I just took a picture part way through a house tidy up fitting 10 bikes in a small corner... back on a heavy pedal bike my legs are busy convincing me to move them all to get the A2B back out for recovery duty =P

PS: granted your projects page has seemed to grow exponentially since I last saw it =P
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 11979
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by fechter » Jul 22, 2013 2:54 pm

What's the most voltage anybody has tried with the stock controller?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
The Stig
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1045
Joined: Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Boston

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by The Stig » Jul 22, 2013 3:39 pm

deepfraught wrote:
Are you intending 14S on an aftermarket controller?
Yes. I was thinking of going 17s 5p but 14s 6p fits slightly better

User avatar
deepfraught
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Jul 09, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: pants, downunder
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by deepfraught » Jul 22, 2013 5:09 pm

fechter wrote:What's the most voltage anybody has tried with the stock controller?
In this thread Ypedal tried a boost to stock just shy of 50V.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).

User avatar
Ypedal
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13879
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Moncton NB, Canada
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by Ypedal » Jul 22, 2013 7:13 pm

fechter wrote:What's the most voltage anybody has tried with the stock controller?

yeah... A2B sells a 48v version of the Metro with footpegs so the controller can handle it, but the soft start makes the whole thing a crapshoot...
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
http://www.ypedal.com

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 11979
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by fechter » Jul 22, 2013 7:20 pm

Before I remove mine and replace it with an external controller, I'm tempted to find the limit (destructively) :twisted:
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
Ypedal
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13879
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Moncton NB, Canada
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by Ypedal » Jul 22, 2013 7:51 pm

pretty sure I recall seeing 63v caps on that controller..... those go pop at what.. 65v or so ? :lol:


user Friedwires made an adult kick scoot from the motor with a lyen 12fet, pretty sure he's running 72v.... the motor is beefy enough to take a few kw easily .. the rpm/v is fairly high but 72v and 40 amps would be a reasonably reliable fun combo.
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
http://www.ypedal.com

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 11979
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by fechter » Jul 23, 2013 12:22 am

Ypedal wrote:pretty sure I recall seeing 63v caps on that controller..... those go pop at what.. 65v or so ? :lol:
Most of it seems buried in potting. Most likely 60V FETs. The relay coils for the A/B switch are 24v, so might need a resistor there. I have a 16s A123 pack that's about 59v hot off the charger.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
Ypedal
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13879
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 12:55 pm
Location: Moncton NB, Canada
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by Ypedal » Jul 23, 2013 7:06 am

I ran it with a 16S PSI pack ( lifepo4 ) and it survived a 20 minute ride.. top speed was good.. sloppy off the line..
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
http://www.ypedal.com

edamame
1 W
1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Mar 19, 2012 9:54 pm
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by edamame » Aug 04, 2013 9:31 am

This spring I put two 10S RC Lipo stick packs inside my A2B Metro's down tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l09qAkCI08E

I also put two sticks on top of the frame for 72V and a very centered mass. The bike goes 37mph (GPS verified) and handles great though I try not to park in front of any federal buildings since the external packs look a little suspect :shock:

I would say that my A2B Metro is one of my most favorite machines I've ever owned. Getting to ride it to work and back home twice a day is probably the best things about my work day. Riding a pedal bike is too dangerous for my commute and my office is too close for a car to warm up at all (120F coolant temp by the time I get to work). We have a Nissan Leaf but my partner drives it since she drives more than I do.

I paid $500 for the bike with a bad motor but two good battery packs. The motor wasn't bad but the wires had gotten wrapped around the axle when the PO ran over something in the road. I ripped out the controller and used an external Crystalite sensorless controller instead. I bought $500 worth of Zippy RC batts and then sold the two stock packs for $500. I did put some money in better, bigger BB7 brakes, a seat, racks, controller, mirrors, a good rear shock, lights, Cycle Analyst, etc. but it was money well spent. I can't imaging riding one stock. -Jim

User avatar
deepfraught
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Jul 09, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: pants, downunder
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by deepfraught » Sep 03, 2013 1:07 am

Has anyone sourced replacement chargers? I've got a single standard 4 amp model.
Anyone use similar powered ones that aren't fan cooled? Handy for quiet charging at work.
The fan on mine is dying, so I'll try to replace that.
I've had a 2nd charger in the back of my mind for a while, but was considering the Lipo upgrade so delayed it, but I have 3 sets of stock frame batteries now to justify continuing to use them, so I'm being pushed to act =D
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).

User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 11979
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by fechter » Sep 06, 2013 7:52 pm

This guy is selling one of the chargers:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =9&t=53177

Does anybody know if there is a larger front chainring that can be used? I'd like to be able to pedal when going faster than 20mph. Ghost pedaling is fun, but doesn't help the Whr/mi.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
newb
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 340
Joined: May 31, 2010 6:05 am
Location: SoCal

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by newb » Sep 07, 2013 7:14 am

fechter wrote:Does anybody know if there is a larger front chainring that can be used? I'd like to be able to pedal when going faster than 20mph. Ghost pedaling is fun, but doesn't help the Whr/mi.
Sorry, I don't recall the A2B chainring size or if they use a standard 104mm BCD crank. But if you measure it and it is, then yes, any 4 bolt 104mm chainring should bolt on.

I just ordered a custom chainring (52.9t which should basically be a 53t) for a different bike from this guy - Rennen Design Group. The reviews say they are a quality product and they are cheap too (comparatively).

wymjymn
1 W
1 W
Posts: 58
Joined: Feb 26, 2011 9:26 am

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by wymjymn » Sep 07, 2013 2:19 pm

this 50t allows for some effort @20~22mph
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=20991

Image
Image

I need to rebuild my frame pack.....if anyone has seen a deal on some appropriate 18650 cells I'd appreciate a heads up


wj

joepah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 122
Joined: Aug 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by joepah » Dec 13, 2013 8:48 pm

Have any of you folks had any luck sourcing a replacement battery back for the frame battery? My Metro is 5 years old and the battery is jsut about done.

I could pay 600 for a new frame pack.. But my second battery also needs to be replaced... Think anyone would want to build a reverse engineered packs for a few folks?

Joe

User avatar
deepfraught
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 317
Joined: Jul 09, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: pants, downunder
Contact:

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by deepfraught » Dec 13, 2013 9:03 pm

Check your frame from underside and thoroughly cleaned before dropping big $$$ into new batteries.

My frame with cracks from the drain and cable holes finally let go, spread to swingarm weld and snapped the banana swinger like... A banana. Locked rear wheel on rear battery pack was good because it didn't have leverage to snap clean through, so no damage to the wiring.

I spoke to seller on eBay with frame for sale, no swinger, as it snapped at the dropouts.

When I got this 3rd frame/bike it was cheap and I had a feeling the decent size guy had carried people on the back at times.

I continued riding it regardless dropping off curbs (the final shock that snapped the swingarm) but it wasn't the big cracks I was monitoring that got me.

There are some odd cast lines in the fork that made me nervous, but same across 3 bikes so I was comfortable it was not a crack.

It is all repairable, but I have a preference for steel for future ;) I have one dead controller motor and one dead frame so still serviceable fleet for a while.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).

User avatar
The Stig
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1045
Joined: Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Boston

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by The Stig » Dec 13, 2013 9:29 pm

Joepah, if your frame is good, I think we could get a cell man (www.em3ev.com) to make custom packs for us with his new high quallity 10C cells! He will be more willing to do it if hes going to make 2+ of these packs, and also because its winter(hes not too busy).


With some modifications to the design:
-Making it 14s 5p (instead of 6p)
-Making it in 5 sections. Like 5 blocks of 14 cells each, and having, short, flexible leads connecting the blocks. (If that makes sense in light of battery layout design...?)
Image

joepah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 122
Joined: Aug 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by joepah » Dec 14, 2013 1:31 pm

deepfraught wrote:Check your frame from underside and thoroughly cleaned before dropping big $$$ into new batteries.

My frame with cracks from the drain and cable holes finally let go, spread to swingarm weld and snapped the banana swinger like... A banana. Locked rear wheel on rear battery pack was good because it didn't have leverage to snap clean through, so no damage to the wiring.

I spoke to seller on eBay with frame for sale, no swinger, as it snapped at the dropouts.

When I got this 3rd frame/bike it was cheap and I had a feeling the decent size guy had carried people on the back at times.

I continued riding it regardless dropping off curbs (the final shock that snapped the swingarm) but it wasn't the big cracks I was monitoring that got me.

There are some odd cast lines in the fork that made me nervous, but same across 3 bikes so I was comfortable it was not a crack.

It is all repairable, but I have a preference for steel for future ;) I have one dead controller motor and one dead frame so still serviceable fleet for a while.
Thanks for the heads up, DeepFraught...I checked the drain hole and bulkhead fitting for the wiring and didn't notice any cracks... Unless the paint is removed you really can't tell unless its pretty bad :? My swingarm failed at the weld about 2 years ago, and it was replaced under warranty.. Since I probably have more miles on my Metro than most people, 8000 miles, I really don't know where the next failure will be... Been pretty good to me overall...

joepah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 122
Joined: Aug 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by joepah » Dec 14, 2013 1:38 pm

The Stig wrote:Joepah, if your frame is good, I think we could get a cell man (http://www.em3ev.com) to make custom packs for us with his new high quallity 10C cells! He will be more willing to do it if hes going to make 2+ of these packs, and also because its winter(hes not too busy).


With some modifications to the design:
-Making it 14s 5p (instead of 6p)
-Making it in 5 sections. Like 5 blocks of 14 cells each, and having, short, flexible leads connecting the blocks. (If that makes sense in light of battery layout design...?)
Image
Great Stig.. I sent him an e mail about it this morning.. I have two packs to be replaced.

My only concern about upgrading the Ah is actually fitting inside the plastic case that houses the battery pack.. I don't know if your sketch dimensions are the internal dimensions of the frame or the plastic case..... And I don't know what the physical differenes are between the stock 2c batteries vs a 10c... I would prefer a cell that lasted longer than high performance, because the stock controller is pretty lame anyways... Would like to see if we could do better than 42v off the charger though... :)

User avatar
The Stig
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1045
Joined: Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Boston

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by The Stig » Dec 14, 2013 1:56 pm

joepah wrote:
The Stig wrote:Joepah, if your frame is good, I think we could get a cell man (http://www.em3ev.com) to make custom packs for us with his new high quallity 10C cells! He will be more willing to do it if hes going to make 2+ of these packs, and also because its winter(hes not too busy).


With some modifications to the design:
-Making it 14s 5p (instead of 6p)
-Making it in 5 sections. Like 5 blocks of 14 cells each, and having, short, flexible leads connecting the blocks. (If that makes sense in light of battery layout design...?)
Image
Great Stig.. I sent him an e mail about it this morning.. I have two packs to be replaced.

My only concern about upgrading the Ah is actually fitting inside the plastic case that houses the battery pack.. I don't know if your sketch dimensions are the internal dimensions of the frame or the plastic case..... And I don't know what the physical differenes are between the stock 2c batteries vs a 10c... I would prefer a cell that lasted longer than high performance, because the stock controller is pretty lame anyways... Would like to see if we could do better than 42v off the charger though... :)
I took apart the plastic case and deemed not worth trying to reuse it. Don't remember why. 14s may be high for the stock controller, I might be up for 13s

joepah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 122
Joined: Aug 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by joepah » Dec 14, 2013 2:10 pm

[/quote]I took apart the plastic case and deemed not worth trying to reuse it. Don't remember why. 14s may be high for the stock controller, I might be up for 13s[/quote]

ARe you saying that the OEM case cannot be disassembled without destroying it? Guess the batteries could be assembled with the correct arc, enclosed in plastic, then mounted on a backbone like Edamame did.

User avatar
The Stig
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1045
Joined: Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Boston

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by The Stig » Dec 14, 2013 6:00 pm

No, as I said, I don't remember why. I think I didn't want to reuse it because I could fit a lot more cells in along side the new BMS. (Cell mans BMSs are great! so little battery drain.) The other reason was just to save alot of time and effort, cell man builds more-than-adequet protection onto his batteries. A strap around the end of the battery and running the entire length could be used to pull the battery out for future maintenance. This is good we should figure out all the details here before we send him more emails to save him time as well. I have a good bit of experience drawing up custom layouts for cell man to build... poor guy :P

Let me know when you figure out if the stock controller can take 14s Li-Ion. I think the answer is yes, and the information may be in this thread as I vaguely remember...

joepah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 122
Joined: Aug 28, 2011 8:02 pm

Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Post by joepah » Dec 14, 2013 6:47 pm

The Stig wrote:No, as I said, I don't remember why. I think I didn't want to reuse it because I could fit a lot more cells in along side the new BMS. (Cell mans BMSs are great! so little battery drain.) The other reason was just to save alot of time and effort, cell man builds more-than-adequet protection onto his batteries. A strap around the end of the battery and running the entire length could be used to pull the battery out for future maintenance. This is good we should figure out all the details here before we send him more emails to save him time as well. I have a good bit of experience drawing up custom layouts for cell man to build... poor guy :P

Let me know when you figure out if the stock controller can take 14s Li-Ion. I think the answer is yes, and the information may be in this thread as I vaguely remember...
ok.. You know the only electric part that has been deadly reliable has been that frame pack... Every other electrical part has been replaced, and the motor 3x, all under warranty first two years.

Not sure how you would shove the batteries in what should be a tight fit inside the tube frame, without some sort of structure to protect the battery tab welds.

Now I have read every bit of owner mods on the A2B and I believe that 48 volts off the charger should work with the factory controller... so 12s should work nicely... would end up with less Ah, but I can live with that.

Post Reply