A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:50 pm

Alternatively if you pull it from the wheel to put it into a bigger 26" you'll get higher top speed too.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Gregor » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:51 pm

I'm thinking 26 inch wheel (the stock oversize tire is 22 inch on a 20 rim) whould add 20% to the top speed. If you take perhaps 12s lipo (44v)-- about 20% more volts, and get a frame that is 20% lighter, it could add up to a decent, stelthy type of a project--does anyone happen to know if the rear dropout width is 135mm?
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:22 pm

It is 150mm dropout. I had a tape measure by the bike last night, forgot to post though.
Spacing of mechanical BB5 caliper looks like enough for hydraulics, versus my 9C with 135mm dropouts that needs brake rotor spacing out from the motor.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Ypedal » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:07 pm

Ran capacity test on the A battery yesterday.

AB-2012-capacity.JPG
AB-2012-capacity.JPG (44.36 KiB) Viewed 2807 times


And used it today to get a few battery packs from the post office !
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby joepah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:11 am

On newer A2B Metros the controller was moved from the motor hub to the bike frame, since that was a source of numerous motor replacements. My motor has been replaced 5x in 3 years for that very reason.

So someone could modify the controller to get the American 500W+ motor power or more with an on demand power button.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby joepah » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:14 am

Ypedal wrote:The whole soft start makes it not worth the hassle and potential over-heating of the internal controller at 48v imo.

Yes, it works.. but no it's not right.

This thing really needs to be opened up and gutted.. The motor has plenty of potential as a 3000~5000w rig, but needs a proper external controller.


How long have you own your Metro? Over heating was a HUGE PROBLEM for early Metros... My Metro hi temp t/c's would trip after 20 or so miles, and it would take a long time to cool After they started using higher temp t/c with a soft start, no OT trips!
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:27 pm

joepah do you have any of the old motors/controllers that were replaced? I'm looking for one to have in hand to compare against the Australian 15mph limited version I have here, in case it's a jumper position on the board. Failing that, a working USA one in hand would mean plan B swap while I have the motor open.
I upped my front sprocket from 42 to 48, and am now pedalling 22mph cruise with motor not doing as much (speed told to me by two road bikes drafting me on two separate occassions who wanted to know more about the bike ;)

I've loved it so much now I've commuted on it for 8 days in favour of my custom parts bin special flatbar road bike that I preferred over all others for fast convenient commuting.
First day with the 48 tooth sprocket on front, I had 2 road bikes drafting me run up my A2B Metro arse when I stopped at a break in cycle path to give way to a 2T SUV entering T-junction.
Being such a tank A2B Metro didn't budge while on the brakes near stationary as first guy hit, only harm was derailleur tweaked lost top gear til next stop when I slackened off the cable at shifter a bit.
It was small vindication for feeling bad a week earlier on my road bike giving piece of mind to an intersection bike queue jumping arse hugging drafter.

The worst thing that slows down the A2B Metro the most I've found is it's total opposite of "stealth", it's obvious under paint decals that give it away, attracting lots of friendly conversations from inquisitive people that I rarely got from my road bike. Even an Aunty of mine was stuck in traffic at an intersection I was waiting in median strip to cross and spotted me saying hi, looking good =D
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby joepah » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:06 pm

[quote="deepfraught"]joepah do you have any of the old motors/controllers that were replaced? I'm looking for one to have in hand to compare against the Australian 15mph limited version I have here, in case it's a jumper position on the board. Failing that, a working USA one in hand would mean plan B swap while I have the motor open.
I upped my front sprocket from 42 to 48, and am now pedalling 22mph cruise with motor not doing as much (speed told to me by two road bikes drafting me on two separate occassions who wanted to know more about the bike ;)

I've loved it so much now I've commuted on it for 8 days in favour of my custom parts bin special flatbar road bike that I preferred over all others for fast convenient commuting.


Sorry, but all the replacements were made under warranty so my local distributor took the failed motors with him. With the new soft start and high t/c temps, the motor seems more reliable... Have 5000 miles on it now and it doesn't cut out on high temp any more. I would like to figure out how to remove the 20 mph limit on my bike!
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Re:freewheel questi A2B Metro - ultramotor

Postby wymjymn » Thu May 17, 2012 11:12 am

Hi, while waiting for for Gaston to show me the way to better performance with the metro, I have a question.
My freewheel has started to make really bad sounds,
is the cshg30 (Shimano 7-Speed Cassette with 11-28 Teeth) an appropriate replacement?
if not, which one should I get?


btw....the 54t front crank I have on mine still seems to need a bit higher gearing for me.....on the level I'm spinning at 22mph...and would actually like to feel as if I'm doing something other than moving my legs around.

thanks


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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Ypedal » Thu May 17, 2012 11:30 am

the A2B ( like 99% of hub motors ) use freewheel.. not cassette.. smallest you can get on the rear is 16t ( I think the mega-range may go down to 14t... but those are getting rare )

--

small update, this week i dusted off the Metro, charged the on-board pack, removed the 3v booster pack and added a 6v booster in series with the A battery.. so i'm at 48v hot off the charger, cruising at 44v until 4ah where it dips to 42v..

so i'm going aprox 40 kph on the flats, slowing down to 35 kph near the mid-discharge area.. 8) .. not great.. but better than stock ! :wink:
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby wymjymn » Thu May 17, 2012 12:02 pm

the + 6V sounds like something I will do, thanks.

as to the rear, I counted the small cog....=11teeth
large = 28 teeth

is yours different?


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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Ypedal » Thu May 17, 2012 12:06 pm

I had to replace mine back some time ago, i'm currently using a shimano and my smallest rear is 16t, you are correct tho , the original one had a smaller gear ... will have to dig it up and double check..
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby joepah » Thu May 17, 2012 6:10 pm

That's an interesting thought Y... Adding a 6v in series with the A battery sounds like a good idea.

I went to a 46t chainwheel, but it didn't help much.. I can get to 21 mph with pedaling.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Ypedal » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:48 pm

Gotten quite a few emails about this so here are a few pictures ..

Using 10ah PSI cells, ( lifepo4 )
a2b-6v-2.JPG
a2b-6v-2.JPG (43.99 KiB) Viewed 2451 times


Wrapped in crazy-carpet ( thick flexible plastic ), 2 cells in series .. 3.2v each = 6.4v ~ 6.0v operating voltage at this discharge rate..

a2b-6v-1.JPG
a2b-6v-1.JPG (51.39 KiB) Viewed 2451 times


I charge the 2 cells seperately.. with single cell voltphreaks chargers and anderson connectors, the stock charge plug in the frame for the A pack works the same as usual for the internal 36v pack.

Normally, the A battery fully charges to 41.8v, drops to 38v under load almost right away and fades away to 35v at the end of a long ride..

With the extra 6v, it shows 48.x volts hot off the charger, drops to 45~44v giving aprox 38~40 kph.. and 42v at the end of a ride still going 32 kph.

I need a larger chainring to help with pedaling at top speed, with the shimano 16t rear i'm unable to pedal on level ground, spinning too fast.

This is on an older version of the bike, recent models may be different, but the power wires going into the motor at the swingarm connector, are past the BMS and throttle LED's.. the throttle led's are connected to the BMS of the A pack so are not affected by the extra voltage.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby matt20 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:12 pm

What is the highest voltage that this will take without something catching on fire? I have a 48 volt pack I'd like to connect up, if it could take it...
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Ypedal » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:54 pm

A while back ( not sure what page .. ) .. i ran 16 cell PSI for 53v hot off the charger and dropping to 50v operating voltage for about 10 minutes, nothing went bang...

The soft start controller made 48v sluggish off the line for a longer period it seemed but this is something i have to test again with the CA calibrated to report back accurately.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Gregor » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:41 pm

Going with a bigger chain-ring might be easier to install, but don't forget you may need to add a few links to your chain. If the rear wheel is easy to remove, then changing from a freewheel that is 16T smallest to 12 or 13 tooth would give you about 4mph more "pedalling added" assist. There are quite a few of these available on ebay, just make sure that you get a 6 speed (I think that is what was stock, tho I'm not sure) and that it has English threads. A shimano brand is probably the easiest to find a freewheel remover for, But again, that tool may have to be modified with a bigger center hole so that the axle will fit through it--I've had to grind the center out of one with a Dremel and it takes quite a while.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:15 am

I didn't change the standard chain because in standard form I was only using 1 (top) and 2 gears on my commute. Now from 42 stock to 48 on the front I'm also using 3rd, leaving the massive 4 gears of larger rear sprockets still unused.

I have found my Australian 200W claimed restricted controller is speed limited to 25kph with throttle only, but does still assist while pedalling up to near zero assistance by 35kph. I don't think taller gearing will help me go higher in speed without adding more voltage like Ypedal has shown. since the standard assist at 35kph is negligible.

I've been riding it for a couple months or more now with the gearing increase mandatory for happy commuting. It is a good speed and is real cycling effort, working (e-relatively) hard to the benchmark of fast road bike commuters who do that pace. Over 35kph would be passing them into the fewer riders who do 35-40kph solo, or pairs/groups drafting each other, and would risk just being drafted by them unless able to break away for a burst with 40kph and taller gearing.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Gregor » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:48 pm

Ah yes, it is a 7speed stock. A lot of it has to do with the maximum cadence that you are comfortable with--for some it is 50 rpm and for others it's 80 rpm. The higher revs are supposed to be easier on your knees.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby matt20 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:43 pm

Ypedal wrote:A while back ( not sure what page .. ) .. i ran 16 cell PSI for 53v hot off the charger and dropping to 50v operating voltage for about 10 minutes, nothing went bang...

The soft start controller made 48v sluggish off the line for a longer period it seemed but this is something i have to test again with the CA calibrated to report back accurately.


Thanks for the reply. I put a 48 volt ping pack on the back and ran the bike for about 10 miles today. It seems to be working very well. Top speed seems faster than before. All I did was cut the black wire that goes to the auxiliary pack and connected up the +/- with Anderson connectors. The third wire I left disconnected.
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:59 pm

Has anyone hit a wheel speed limit?

At top speed pedallling a short steep downhill, sustained pedalling shortly on the flat, no throttle use at all, the controller cuts power like a reset, battery lights on throttle flash, cut out altogether, then back on and resume normal operation.

Looking at GPS speed only.shows 34-35kph for this fast downhill/flat pedalling without any throttle.
However other flat section pedalling with motor I can get 36kph without any of this cutout.

I can imagine anyone with a mountain downhill pedalling faster than motor speed, they wouldn't want the motor to attempt to drive at RPM beyond its effective power output.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:52 am

The favourite commuter continues. 6 month milestone for cycling every day to work this year, half of that now on A2B Metro.
I noticed lower performance in low to 0°C temps... or maybe it was the legs that were sluggish =P
Image

I finally suffered the the loose rear mudguard rattle. Fixed it temporarily with some cable tie clippings jammed in the bracket gap.
Fixed it properly taking the axle nuts off, mud guard bracket bolts off, and using newspaper packing strap plastic cut down to bracket thickness in a U liner around the bracket in the swingarm to compress and eliminate all tolerance. Silent ever since.

I removed the top chain guide at one service, wife cleaned up the lounge-come-workshop, and haven't found it since. Chain would drop off to the guide going up to top gear on heavy shifts (always when passing someone on a climb, grrr!). So I have a few cable ties linked around the swingarm through an unused cable guide tab, providing vertical guide keeping the chain from bouncing off shifting to top gear.

Rear hard luggage case is cable tied solid to rack with four 7-8mm ties plus a couple spare for additional bungee cord points. I loop the cords around rear subframe and case to keep the layers of clothes as they come off warming up on the 20km trip to work.

An unused kitchen now storeroom/lockers at work where I now park it daily for charging, instead of the basement bike lockers. Without this spot, I would have a dilemma for charging the frame battery. I got a whole new Tornaro mid drive N360 drive bike featuring removable battery instead of the price of a new A2B rear battery. Bummer to carry 20Ah of battery just to be able to recharge 10Ah removable, when you only use 6Ah. A rear battery removing frame battery would give room for the 52V speed up that Ypedal has done.

Very happy with the A2B Metro, it is my favourite e-bike, and the quality in design and finish is apparent compared to cheaper options, and that counts with commuter routine and reliability.
My Norco A-Line with Hyena Hadron kit is faster but isn't as convenient a commuter bike (also isn't legal as the A2B is) and I'm only ~5min slower on journey (35min avg. to 40min avg.) but would spend more than that time saved with less convenient luggage, storage, and unique charging setup (A2B shares common charger with old chinese e-bike, and the Tornaro, so I have 3 chargers across work/home).
Thumbs up for the A2B Metro.
Last edited by deepfraught on Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby Ypedal » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:43 am

This week is a WET week, all day every day rain to the Metro is back in service.

ironic, the city bus service is now offline, the city locked out the bus drivers for demanding more money, bla bla bla.. everyone is pissed.. but i ride my Metro ! lol..

Ditch that seat, get a normal bike seat and you will find pedaling much more comfortable.. !! 8)
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby deepfraught » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:08 am

I just removed the last pic that was out of chronological order, it was actually first/second test ride but just a pic of the stock bike to illustrate the kitchen/store room I've taken over as my own.
I think it's obvious after the first decent ride you do on that seat it's in the "LEV" bias they mention, rather than electric bicycle.
I have put the stock A2B seat over to my Norco which had a downhill seat of torture at the other extreme, with a short single speed ratio "get home emergency" backup to electric, it's more an e-trail bike.
Someone mentioned Cloud9 seats on another build thread, and my Fat Sand Bike came with one standard, that dwarfs this "ass master' that I thought was huge on the A2B.
The Cloud9 seat lives up to the reputation the others had mentioned, but the one there on the A2B is fantastic also. I used to think people were soft and needed to toughen up... I guess I've gotten old and soft myself wanting a Cadillac rather than Nascar ride =P

I did wonder today, what if someone else gets the same idea with my storeroom and there's a fight for e-bike parking/charging space... all good things must come to an end, so I appreciate it now while it lasts =D
There is some nice luggage available in the factory option notebook pannier wings and hard side and top cases I've seen around, along with the optional rear battery, I did think I should get my bike insured in case anything ever happened theft/damaged, it is $4k to replace without any optional bits. Hard to justify out of pocket when I paid a fraction of that for it used.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

Postby wymjymn » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:16 pm

Some mechanical thoughts


Thought I’d share a couple UM tid bits.
I’m old (63yr) and use the UMMetro for daily ‘exercise’. 12 miles round trip, hilly terrain…..sometimes 18 miles, same terrain +/-.
I wanted to get more than leg movement from my rides so I replaced the front chainring with a larger one…it wasn’t enough…then larger…it wasn’t enough….finally found the Tempo 50/34 (arms+chainring) with the 34 t secondary sprocket removed. It made me feel as if I was doing a bit of work up to 20mph. The UM does 24mph (via gps) on the flat and at that speed (only when hot off of the charger) I’m basically ‘spinning’.
This larger front sprocket did not require a longer chain. I removed the tensioner and relocated the guides and the chain routing. I have never had any problems with the chain jumping the sprocket or it being too tight.
I have found that after 6,000 miles the rear freewheel was making a crunching sound when in high gear and pedaling hard. The problem was the inner portion of the freewheel was wearing.
I located a replacement freewheel….11t~28t, and installed it today. It is the same manufacturer (Epoch) and same gearing but the entire assembly is ever so slightly different. I needed to add a shim onto the axle so that the freewheel would….freewheel.
So, 6000 miles and so far, I have worn out one set of tires, one gel seat (on second one now), one freewheel.

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