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48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Aug 18 2011 2:34pm
by dogman dan
This battery is about 18 months old, as of August 2011. I have counted 225 cycles on it so far.

The use has been primarly on commuter bikes, running 22 amp controllers and 2807 winding 9 continent motors. Some of the time though, it uses 2810 windings, which resulted in slower speed and coresponding lower c rates. Typical dod was 50% in the morning, 80% in the afternoon climbing back home uphill. Charging is in the hot or cold, whichever it is, including a garage that is often way above 100F all summer.

Today I did a discharge to lvc, to see if the lvc still works. It does, and tripped at about 23 miles. 14 ah used. The ride was entirely wot, so the test showed close to identical range as when the battery was new. It did do slightly better for the first month, then settled in where it is now. Typically, it holds 56v. So though it charges higher, it drops to 56v as soon as you start riding.

The lvc is at about 44.5v. The voltage slowly dropped to about 45v, then went off the cliff. Went from 44.9v to cutoff in about 200 feet.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Aug 18 2011 2:53pm
by neptronix
How about a test of the amp-hours it still has ... ? that would be an interesting metric.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Aug 18 2011 3:50pm
by Doctorbass
Thanks for sharing the test :wink:

What would be great is to have the comparaison done in the same condition between the very forst capacity test you did when you got it.. and the lastest.


48V 15Ah Ping battery are surprizingly good! many know i bought 7 of them and never regreted that.

All 7 are on setup with 48V 40A crystalyte controller and 9C 2807 motor and they all do 2600Watts no problem. I asked to get them on 10AWG wire instead of 12 for better performance.

Everything is perfect.. the only cons is that the BMS they have draw stanby current on the cell 1 2 3 and 4 to supply the BMS power.

that have a direct effect on teh balancing of the cells. you will see the 4 first LED take more time to blink than other for this reason.

But if you use and charge this battery on a regular base you'll probably not notice that.

It appear only if you leave it for month without any recharge.

About that, my advice is to disconnect the bms balance connector to insulate the BMS from the battery. By that way all the cells will stay balanced.

This is by far one of the best and simple to use battery i bought for friends projects.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Aug 19 2011 6:39am
by dogman dan
Sorry if I wasn't so clear about the capacity. 14 ah used, on a ride till the bms tripped. So at this discharge rate, capacity is 14ah. If you want to get fussy, 13.9 ah actually.

.5 ah less than a test done when it was new, where I rode 20 mph. I don't belive capacity has diminshed much, range in distance was exactly what I've come to expect from this size ping when ridden 25+ mph.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Aug 28 2011 10:46pm
by joepah
Glad to hear Ping's batteries are reliable and maintaining their capacity.. I was going to buy a system from him in 2009 but was talked out of it by ElectricRider, who didn't believe Ping's battery could reliably provide 40amps @48V for very long. It may have been before V2. His prices have increased sigificantly since then, so business must be good!

Dr, do you know if your motor draws that kind of load (40A)?

I went and bought an Ultramotor A2B Metro that has around 4000 miles so far, and has replaced my Saab for local errands. But now I'm ready for a fast DIY kit bike.

Does anyone have an opinion on ElectricRider? Spoken to them several times and they seem quite frank in their assessment of both their products and others. They recently started selling the PhoenixII motor and controller. And they're still in business after 3 years.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 01 2011 6:26am
by dogman dan
You would not want to run a48v 15 ah ping on a 40 amp controller, and especially not with a big watt hungry motor like the 5300 series clytes. So electric rider was right on with that advice. I run my pings on lame 22 amp controllers running smaller motors for boring commutes to work at 20-25 mph. Perfect for that application, an efficient as possible ride to work.

For racing or dirt riding I use much more powerfull controllers. On those bikes I use 30c lipo instead of 2c ping. They may be running anthing from 1500 watts to 4000. No way 2c lifepo4 is the battery for that kind of use. I don't worry about battery lifespan on those bikes, this is paid by the fun budget, not the cheap ride to work budget.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 01 2011 8:04am
by joepah
I agree 100 percent... So what you're saying is that you're getting reliable battery life with controller set at 22A? I could buy a 48V 30AH battery set, and that should handle a 40 amp load, or not?

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 01 2011 8:10am
by wineboyrider
Does anyone have an opinion on ElectricRider? Spoken to them several times and they seem quite frank in their assessment of both their products and others. They recently started selling the PhoenixII motor and controller. And they're still in business after 3 years.
I purchased a brushed sparrow motor from them several years ago and they are very honest, but a bit overpriced last I looked. You can get a crystalyte watt hog for sure, but how fast do you want to go?

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 01 2011 8:27am
by joepah
"I purchased a brushed sparrow motor from them several years ago and they are very honest, but a bit overpriced last I looked. You can get a crystalyte watt hog for sure, but how fast do you want to go?"

Their prices do seem high, but it's a kit and they make you pay. Also checked with SanDiegoElectricBike and it's pretty much the same.

Really all i would like is a bike that can peak in the low 30s, and maybe get 15 miles on a charge. motor in the rear wheel, battery in the triangle.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

$850

3540 Cruiser comparable motor recommended due to good Torque and Speed ; 30mph

Also recommend High Rate BMS on the ping battery, $50 extra)

- CONTROLLER (30-59v), Throttle, Thumb Throttle (Twist is not recommended)

- Wheel Build; 26in, 700c tire, Double Wall Aluminum Rim (Silver or Black) & Stainless Steel Spokr (Silver or Bkack)

- $745 PING LiFeP04 Battery 48v 15ah, and charger; Best Quality
Center Frame Battery Case $50
- $15 ON/OFF Battery Switch; Super Heavy Duty Triple Sealed 50A

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 01 2011 12:39pm
by wineboyrider
joepah wrote:"I purchased a brushed sparrow motor from them several years ago and they are very honest, but a bit overpriced last I looked. You can get a crystalyte watt hog for sure, but how fast do you want to go?"

Their prices do seem high, but it's a kit and they make you pay. Also checked with SanDiegoElectricBike and it's pretty much the same.

Really all i would like is a bike that can peak in the low 30s, and maybe get 15 miles on a charge. motor in the rear wheel, battery in the triangle.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

$850

3540 Cruiser comparable motor recommended due to good Torque and Speed ; 30mph

Also recommend High Rate BMS on the ping battery, $50 extra)

- CONTROLLER (30-59v), Throttle, Thumb Throttle (Twist is not recommended)

- Wheel Build; 26in, 700c tire, Double Wall Aluminum Rim (Silver or Black) & Stainless Steel Spokr (Silver or Bkack)

- $745 PING LiFeP04 Battery 48v 15ah, and charger; Best Quality
Center Frame Battery Case $50
- $15 ON/OFF Battery Switch; Super Heavy Duty Triple Sealed 50A
A BMC from ebikesf or a mac motor and controller from cellman (will take a little longer), But he has a good reputation from other members (neptronix for sure). My BMC via Lyen and 9fet controller and a 48v15ah ping would get you mid 35 ish mph for sure. I used Dogman's 48v 15ah battery on it and it had great performance. My 36v ping gives me solid 30mph and 32 mph peak. A geared BMC won't eat as many watts as crystalyte and give you decent speed. If you want a lot more speed than go with the crystalyte and dish the ping idea and for lipo and/or a123's.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 02 2011 6:16am
by dogman dan
An E-BikeKit direct drive motor goes 27mph when run on a 48v 15 ping. That's the stock 22 amp controller, etc. At 27 mph, the max range is about 19- 20 miles.

So what you want is not requiring a powerfull motor, just any mid power range kit run at 48v. The cellman high speed Mac motor would do you great too. I have ridden Wineboys, and it does have great speed at 48v. It will run fine on a 48v 15 ah ping.

The VERY LAST THING you need is to lug along 30 pounds of pingbattery to run a more powerfull motor. If you go higher power, forget the ping. Get something with 5c discharge rate minimum. Then you can carry just 15 ah of battery.

The pings are great for what they do best, providing about 10 amps to cruise at 25 mph on a typical ebike kit motor.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 02 2011 12:47pm
by joepah
Thanks to Wineboyrider and Dogman for your advice. Websites for the motors and controllers you mentioned are on this forum somewhere i'm sure.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 02 2011 4:23pm
by Starson
dogman wrote:You would not want to run a48v 15 ah ping on a 40 amp controller, and especially not with a big watt hungry motor like the 5300 series clytes. So electric rider was right on with that advice. I run my pings on lame 22 amp controllers running smaller motors for boring commutes to work at 20-25 mph. Perfect for that application, an efficient as possible ride to work.

For racing or dirt riding I use much more powerfull controllers. On those bikes I use 30c lipo instead of 2c ping. They may be running anthing from 1500 watts to 4000. No way 2c lifepo4 is the battery for that kind of use. I don't worry about battery lifespan on those bikes, this is paid by the fun budget, not the cheap ride to work budget.
Hey Dogman, if you notice in the post up above Doc is running 48v 15ah on 40 amp controller. In the following thread he elaborates on being able to run Ping at 3c with an addition of a small metal plate to enhance cooling of fets http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... te#p447681 It seems that he did this on all seven 48v 15ah pings for his family, and as he said "works like a charm" Seems to me that this is rather important info because it's been an ongoing issue of ping only being able to handle 2c. 3c would get ping up into the 40 amp arena at a lower weight on the bike. If I'm misinterpreting, please let me know.

Gary

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 04 2011 9:19am
by wineboyrider
I added a copper tube to my fets when I was running my cyclone setup at 35 amps with peak of around 50 amps 36v. It helps, but I still think it's hard on the cells. It probably does keep the BMS from tripping and maximizes the life of the cells. BTW Ping recommended I do this mod. after I sent pictures of my semi-cooked fets. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=26111 this link also discusses a fet mod.
I just soldered 1/16 copper tubes to mine and they still work great.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 04 2011 12:12pm
by dnmun
dr bass complained about how the BMS circuit current throws the first 3 cells out of balance if the pack is not regularly recharged.

there is a spot on the BMS made specifically to insert an on/off switch in the circuit current path so you can turn off the battery totally by putting a small switch remotely connected to the BMS through a wire up to the controller or dash board. it could be hidden also so even if the bike was charged, nobody could make it go with the pack turned off through the circuit current switch.

look for small white box surrounding two holes outlined on the BMS pcb next to the sense wire plug. the trace that goes between the two holes can be cut, and a switch bridge the two holes, with wire running out to the switch on the dash. also no need for contactor or even for a line switch for the controller either. the controller would be dead when the BMS circuit current is off.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 10 2011 6:30am
by dogman dan
I think it's safe enough to say that the best cycle life from any cell of any chemisty is obtained by conservative c rates and conservative depth of discharge.

A LOT depends on how those bikes are ridden. Bet the Doc's family rides less agressive than the Doc does. You can easily ride all day at 30 amps, 2c, or even less. Only pulling all 40 up a hill of about 15%.

In the Death Race two years ago, I ran this pingbattery hard as hell on 30 amp controller. 13 2c amp spikes per mile for 12 laps had that thing sagging like crazy, even though it was only half discharged. That night, it needed a huge amount of balancing time to fully charge. At the time the battery was nearly new, with about 20 cycles on it. It did not like those frequent 2c spikes. In normal street riding, you'd have a lot less of the 2c rate discharges, and more time for the battery to recover between them.

But when I recomend stuff to strangers, I make the assumption that you will ride agressive, and climb 15% grade hills 5 miles long.
I'm recomending ping to commuters, who want economy and long service life. You may notice I recomend A123's or lipo to hot rodders.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 10 2011 7:21am
by joepah
dogman wrote:I think it's safe enough to say that the best cycle life from any cell of any chemisty is obtained by conservative c rates and conservative depth of discharge.

A LOT depends on how those bikes are ridden. Bet the Doc's family rides less agressive than the Doc does. You can easily ride all day at 30 amps, 2c, or even less. Only pulling all 40 up a hill of about 15%.
I'm recomending ping to commuters, who want economy and long service life. You may notice I recomend A123's or lipo to hot rodders.


So if I have a 48V 20 ah Ping with a 35A or 40A controller, shouldn't see a lot of sagging or reduced cycle life? Then a 1.5 kW motor would work, right? :idea:

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: Sep 11 2011 10:45am
by dogman dan
Uhh no. It will sag and have a shorter life if you use it at the maximum specifications. I doubt that the docs relatives are riding them that agressively. So they may have good results despite the big controllers if they don't use full throttle. They may be limiting speed or amps with a CA perhaps? I don't know, I was suprised to see him choose such a big controller. Maybe just a decision that a shorter lifespan would be fine.

Cut the max specs in half for your discharge rate, and lifespan may be extended. Bear in mind, those cycle life tests are done at 1c for pings, OR LESS for some others that claim 2000 cycles.

Look hard, and you will see hundreds and hundreds of posts where I DO NOT recomend pings or similar batteries for controllers above 20 amps. Ping tells you himself, 48v 15 ah is for less than 1000w bikes.

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: May 23 2013 5:06pm
by _CY_
any further feedback on Ping batteries ... have never heard of anyone specifying 1C continuous discharge rates.
2C intermittent are lower than any LiFEPO4 battery cell mfg would spec...

are their amp hour ratings accurate?

Re: 48v 15 ah V2 pingbattery at 225 cycles.

Posted: May 26 2013 12:39am
by petedegan
I have four ping 48v 20ah batteries. I have used them all on 9c 2807 motors. Im using ebike.ca 40 amp conrollers. This seems to be the perfect setup for me, @ 28 mph, with pretty strong acceleration. I had a problem with one after a year, i sent it to sandiego electric bike, they to care of it with no drama. Ping fixed it under warranty. I was so happy i offered to pay out of gratitude. Ping is the best.

I have tried other batteries, and every time i regreted not buying a ping.

As for drawing 40 amps, its never been an issue for all the miles ive put on mine, but they are 20 ah. With the 20ah batteries, it comes as two bricks, (one bms) so have some flexibility to be mounted within the frame and between the pedals. The battery weighs somthing like 20 lbs, making the rear rack impractical for mounting. But having the battery down low, mounted in the center of the bike creates a reasuring heavy/steady feel to the bike, especially when mounted to a cromolly frame.

A side note, i asked for a picture of pings shop, but he politely declined citing privacy. Can we endless sphere folks do a group buy plane ticket to fly ping over to the states and see the man behind the curtain? Or fly ping in for the first annual endless sphere convention?