Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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r3volved   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by r3volved » May 27 2015 2:35pm

Did you try another throttle?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teslanv » May 27 2015 2:51pm

teklektik wrote:
Please explain: 'worked intermittently' -- Throttle goes on and off during the same power-up state, throttle does not work at all occasionally after power-ups, etc?
The bike has worked previously with the same hardware/battery/throttle, etc. The only change has been the use of two different battery voltages. Preset #1 was configured to run on the lower voltage battery, and presets #2 & #3 for the higher voltage battery, with a higher LVC and higher current and wattage limits. The issue seems to present itself when switching batteries/presets. The current status is Preset #2 with the higher voltage battery.

Will post the Profile when I have access. Bike it not in my posession ATM
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » May 27 2015 3:39pm

Hi guys
My Ah reading seems to be way off.
Is this because of the Battery type or other settings that I could have incorrectly entered during set up? Thx

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r3volved   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by r3volved » May 27 2015 3:46pm

ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
My Ah reading seems to be way off.
Is this because of the Battery type or other settings that I could have incorrectly entered during set up? Thx
What type of battery do you actually have and what battery setting did you set your CA?
If you setup the wrong chemistry it would be off.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teslanv » May 27 2015 4:01pm

r3volved wrote:
ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
My Ah reading seems to be way off.
Is this because of the Battery type or other settings that I could have incorrectly entered during set up? Thx
What type of battery do you actually have and what battery setting did you set your CA?
If you setup the wrong chemistry it would be off.
You first need to determine the shunt resistance of your controller.



Then you need to program the CA according to the shunt resistance.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » May 27 2015 4:03pm

Yes I believe I entered the correct shunt value. Is there any other setting that I should verify??

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » May 27 2015 4:36pm

r3volved wrote:
ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
My Ah reading seems to be way off.
Is this because of the Battery type or other settings that I could have incorrectly entered during set up? Thx
What type of battery do you actually have and what battery setting did you set your CA?
If you setup the wrong chemistry it would be off.

Yeah Ill double check that asap thx

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 27 2015 5:45pm

ebike11 wrote:My Ah reading seems to be way off.
Is this because of the Battery type or other settings that I could have incorrectly entered during set up?
No. Ah reading is independent of the chemistry and Ah configuration which are used for the Gas Gauge feature.

Ah readings rely on three things:
  1. internal op amp gain settings made at the factory for your particular device
  2. the configured Cal->RShunt value
  3. the baseline Cal->ZeroAmps value
item (a) may be slightly incorrect if you have ever flashed firmware with a filename like "xxxx_Cal.hex" to fix EEPROM corruption. This overwrites the device-specific factory calibration with a 'generic' calibration -- typically only a few percent off.

Item (b) is always suspect. If you don't know the value, use a procedure from "Appendix A. Calibrating the Cycle Analyst RShunt Value" of the Guide. In particular, the procedure "A.4 Instrumented Calibration Using a Current Controlled Charger/Power Supply" is preferred over the technique in the video above since it eliminates DMM calibration questions and accommodates any op amp calibration issue in the CA itself (item a).

Item (c) is a step that many folks miss. See "4.5 Calibrate Current and Voltage Measurements (Make Device-Specific Settings)" subsection "2. Verify Zero Current Calibration" of the Guide.
Last edited by teklektik on May 28 2015 11:03am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » May 28 2015 3:06am

a short question about "battery internal resistance": how often is this display refreshed? i know how it's calculated (max voltage sag/max current), but it seems to be nailed to a value which doesn't change even a bit, even a thousand of a ohm.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teslanv » May 28 2015 9:32am

OK. More difficulties...

Bike was working last night.
Then this morning the throttle slider was flashing, and the bike was NOT working.
Flashing Throttle A.jpg
Flashing Throttle B.jpg
Could be a bad throttle connection?
flashes if there the input voltage exceeds the configured value of ThrI->FaultVolt, indicatinga throttle fault voltage – typically caused by a broken throttle Gnd connection,
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 28 2015 9:59am

teslanv wrote:Then this morning the throttle slider was flashing, and the bike was NOT working.
Guide wrote: flashes if there the input voltage exceeds the configured value of ThrI->FaultVolt, indicating a throttle fault voltage – typically caused by a broken throttle Gnd connection,
A new feature was added subsequent to 3.0p6 that blocks Throttle Output if Throttle Input is not ZEROed on power-up. This error state is cleared once the throttle goes to the configured ZERO voltage - allowing normal Throttle Out operation. This was the cause of my request above for details of the circumstances of your intermittent failures (the Guide is not up to the present 3.0p9 firmware and does not call out this behavior and failure indication).

What is happening is that your ThrI->MinInput voltage is too low and has less than the 0.1V margin recommended in the setup procedure so your throttle signal can never be ZEROed as determined by configuration. There is probably no margin at all but mechanical slop in the control is sometimes allowing the CA to start (wrenching the throttle hard to ZERO may clear the condition).

Raise ThrI->MinInput a bit and all should be well (0.05-0.10V above the ZERO Throttle IN voltage on the Diagnostic Screen).
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teslanv » May 28 2015 12:43pm

Tek,

I think you nailed it there. I think I set the Thrl->MinInput to the Actual Throttle Input Voltage of 08.3V :?

Will change to 1.03V and see if that solves it.

Thanks.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 28 2015 1:12pm

teslanv wrote:I think you nailed it there. I think I set the Thrl->MinInput to the Actual Throttle Input Voltage of 08.3V :?
Will change to 1.03V and see if that solves it.
Excellent news!

May be a typo, but if you aren't using autocruise or PAS (which are sensitive to this setting) you can cut it closer and should only need to set to 0.83V + 0.05V = 0.88V. That should give you a minimal ZERO dead zone. You can try closer depending on the quality of your throttle, etc to accommodate flex and other variations.

You may want to review the setup steps for the other three throttle settings.... just a thought...
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BoomerChomsi » May 30 2015 2:47pm

I would like to use regenerative braking, too bad my controller need 12V to work.
Switching to 12V is a valid value for e-brake.

How can solve this problem?
Just splicing 12V from controller and a resistor inline to make 5V for CA V3?
What value of resistor do I need?

Thank you!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » May 30 2015 3:08pm

Most of the controllers I've seen have options for low-input brake or high-input, though they're not always both wired out from the PCB inside the box. If yours doesn't have the option for low-input, you'll need to use a relay with a 5V coil to convert the CA's grounding signal to yoru controller's 12V high input.


You'd wire up the relay so it's coil runs from the 5V available from your throttle/etc., to the CA's brake output. That way the CA can turn it on whenever it needs to tell your controller to brake.


Then use the NO and Common pins for your controller's brake. The 12V output of your controller would go to one of those, and the controller's brake input would go to the other.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BoomerChomsi » May 31 2015 3:02am

Thanks for your reply!

So if I understand right, I need a 5V coil for switching 12V controller E-brake input?

Can I use 12V voltage from controller and add a resistor inline to make 5V for CAV3?
This way I have 12V for controller E-brake and 5V for CAV3 e-brake.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 31 2015 9:13am

BoomerChomsi wrote:I would like to use regenerative braking, too bad my controller need 12V to work.
....
You asked this same question on the previous page.

You got a response with a request for additional information:
teklektik wrote: It is unclear from your description what your controller expects for input (12V or Gnd to assert brakes?).

Please identify which controller you are using and supply a PDF or link to the documentation so we can understand the actual electrical requirements of your controller ebrake input.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BoomerChomsi » May 31 2015 9:21am

Thank you :D

Please see attachments 8) :D
Attachments
e-brake.jpg
e-brake.jpg (101.9 KiB) Viewed 976 times
e-brake1.jpg
e-brake1.jpg (145.37 KiB) Viewed 976 times
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 31 2015 10:37am

The manual is required to understand what brake input is required - analog/digital, asserted at Gnd/+12V, whether or not configurable.
I cannot locate a manual for the "kelly kls-s" controller as noted in the jpg you attached.

The same request - again:
  • Please identify the make and model of the controller.
  • Please provide the manual - either by link or attachment.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BoomerChomsi » May 31 2015 11:02am

Thank you very much for your help.
This controller is kinda new, not released yet... :oops:

Finally I have found the manual at my hard drive :oops:
Please see attachments...
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KellyKLS-SUserManualV1.2.pdf
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 31 2015 11:34am

Okay. That cleared things up.
  • The mode is switched (digital not analog).
  • Regen is asserted with +12V application to pin [1].
  • The sense is not configurable and so we cannot flip the sense via configuration so it is asserted via Gnd. This is too bad since that was the best situation requiring only a diode.
Two choices come to mind:
  1. The easy approach is to wire one ebrake switch (front) to the CA (sense and Gnd, normal CA connector) and wire the other ebrake switch (rear) to the controller (sense and +12V, pins [1] & [11]). If you put a little slop in your rear brake adjustment, this will let you ease on regen with a light pull and pull harder to affect real brakes. Here we assume you are always applying the front brake to some extent (which tells the CA you are braking).
  2. The second approach is build a small one transistor inverter that will apply 12V to your controller ebrake input when the inverter input is brought to Gnd (ebike 'standard' signal). The ebrakes would be tied together as normal with one wire to Gnd and the other to both the CA and the inverter. The inverter requires just a few parts, but is fabrication none the less.
So - I would really recommend option 1 as the requiring least effort and fewest parts. The option of braking without regen (front brake only) may be viewed as a 'feature'. If you really want to use the second approach a circuit can be afforded, but it's a bit of design time rather spent elsewhere unless you seriously are going to build it.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BoomerChomsi » May 31 2015 11:55am

Thank you very much! 8)

So switching pin 11 to pin 1 will activate e-brake?
Pin 1 is like ground? :oops:

Thanks for your ideas, I will use option 1 8)
Most of time I am suing front brakes... :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 31 2015 12:12pm

BoomerChomsi wrote:So switching pin 11 to pin 1 will activate e-brake?
Pin 1 is like ground? :oops:
No - Pin 1 is the sense input and must be configured using the software to be ebrake (regen) -- see section 4.4 of manual.
Pin 11 is +12V.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BoomerChomsi » May 31 2015 1:07pm

Thanks! 8) :D

You are CA/electronic expert 8)
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 04 2015 2:55pm

izeman wrote:a short question about "battery internal resistance": how often is this display refreshed? i know how it's calculated (max voltage sag/max current), but it seems to be nailed to a value which doesn't change even a bit, even a thousand of a ohm.
does someone have an answer of that? or maybe i found a bug? this value just doesn't change a single bit. so i have no idea if this value is valid at all.

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