Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 26 2018 8:08am

ebike11 wrote:
Feb 25 2018 5:06pm
... Is there a setting to set the duration that the motor runs by itself? For example, if I pedal one rotation then the PAS will kick in for a second or two. Is it possible to extend this time? Thx again!
This behavior is generally considered undesirable and we try to minimize it.

That said, PAS->StopThrsh controls 'Stop Pedaling' detection. If you increase this value, the CA will take 5 or 6 seconds to notice that you are no longer pedaling - which frankly is a quite a long scary power overrun for most situations....
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 26 2018 9:13am

BVH wrote:
Feb 25 2018 8:19pm
Regarding Auto Cruise, ... it was acting a little strange.
...
First - autocruise in nothing more than a throttle lock - it is exactly the same as holding the throttle in a fixed position. This is shown on the screen as the little blinking ghost setting on the throttle bar graph.

What that does depends entirely on what kind of throttle you have configured.
  1. If you have PassThru throttle, the bike will behave pretty much as you describe - with a fixed throttle the bike will go faster down hill and slower uphill
  2. If you have Current or Power throttle, the applied current/power will be fixed and again the bike will accelerate downhill and slow going uphill as the CA tries to add a fixed amount of current/power to whatever the terrain is adding/subtracting.
  3. If you have speed throttle, the bike will stay at the same speed going up hill and the motor may cut out completely going down hill. If you have regen speed limiting enabled, the CA will try to slow the bike appropriately going down hill by applying regen.
In each case, it makes no difference if you are holding a fixed throttle position or autocruise is doing it.

The AuxA input is not just 'enabled' - it must be configured to scale one of several maximums (speed, current, power). Here the effect on the throttle is according to the 4 throttle modes and 3 limiting modes or 12 combinations. Here are some examples:
  1. You have PassThru throttle and Aux limits current. Zero to full throttle applies more power up until the limit of (MaxCurrent scaled by Aux) at which time no more current can be supplied. This is like a ceiling in throttle rotation after which further rotation does nothing (i.e. dead zone).
  2. You have Current throttle and Aux limits current. Zero to full throttle applies current from 0 to (MaxCurrent scaled by Aux). The scaled current extends 0-100% throttle rotation (e.g. you set MaxCurrent to 40A, Aux to 50%, and the throttle will set the current from 0-20A - no dead zone)
  3. You have Speed throttle and Aux limits current. Zero to full throttle sets the speed from 0 to MaxSpeed unless more current is required than is limited by (MaxCurrent scaled by Aux) at which point speed will cease to increase with additional throttle rotation because the current is limited (another dead zone situation).
  4. You have Speed throttle and Aux limits speed. Zero to full throttle sets the speed from 0 to (MaxSpeed scaled by Aux). The scaled speed extends 0-100% throttle rotation (e.g. you set MaxSpeed to 20mph, Aux to 50%, and the throttle will set the speed from 0-10mph - no dead zone).
So - the general idea is (usually) to set Aux to scale the same max setting as the type of throttle you have configured to get 0-100% scaling over the entire throttle range. Mixing throttle and Aux limiting types generally causes some sort of ceiling where the Aux setting provides a hard limit to the throttle operation that appears as an upper dead zone. This explained on page 39 of the Unofficial User Guide in the section "5.6 Auxiliary Pot".

For simplicity, I've left off discussion of Aux controlling ThO or PAS, but the general effect is identical.

Anyhow, without knowing what you are trying to achieve, it seems that your CA is working as expected for many of the possible configurations....

The CA does not intrinsically provide 'automobile' speed-based autocruise, but here are two possible strategies if you are trying to emulate that:
  1. Configure for speed throttle with Aux limiting Speed. You can set autocruise to any speed and Aux will allow you to reduce the speed setting from that value. Frankly, speed throttle is annoying for normal use, so you will probably want a separate preset with speed throttle just for autocruise.
  2. Configure for any throttle you like with Aux limiting Speed. With Aux set to max you drive at the desired target speed and dial down Aux until the speed starts to fall off. Then advance the throttle to max and set autocruise. Aux will now let you dial in whatever speed you want.
A more natural scheme is to outfit your bike with a basic PAS sensor, set the assist power to very big power, one Aux input to control PAS assist level, and the other Aux for speed. When you pedal, you dial the Assist up to killer power and use the Speed Aux to set the speed. You don't use autocruise at all and don't really have to apply any force when pedaling - the pedals will just turn the power on and off. Dial the PAS assist Aux down for normal riding. This actually works quite well if you're the sort who likes to pedal - even if it's faux pedaling.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by BVH » Feb 26 2018 1:24pm

Thank you very much for the very detailed response. I should have specified that I am using Passthru throttle mode and the Aux was set to Speed.

There is so much functionality in the CA3, it is hard to digest it all in a short period of time. I will play around with settings now that you have described it in easy to understand terms.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 26 2018 4:52pm

teklektik wrote:
Feb 26 2018 8:08am
ebike11 wrote:
Feb 25 2018 5:06pm
... Is there a setting to set the duration that the motor runs by itself? For example, if I pedal one rotation then the PAS will kick in for a second or two. Is it possible to extend this time? Thx again!
This behavior is generally considered undesirable and we try to minimize it.

That said, PAS->StopThrsh controls 'Stop Pedaling' detection. If you increase this value, the CA will take 5 or 6 seconds to notice that you are no longer pedaling - which frankly is a quite a long scary power overrun for most situations....
I see thx
Yes 5 or 6 seconds is quite long..i was hoping to just extend the time that the motor operates at to a second or 2 longer.
I tried it and I see what you mean. I think stock firmware settings were:
StartThrsh 10rpm
StopThrsh 37rpm BEFORE i changed them.
I could be wrong if I accidentally changed the values.
The settings go from 0 to 99rpm
Couldnt i just play around with those rpm numbers until i find the sweet spot..in my case 3 or 4 seconds?? Rather than 5 to 6.
Thx

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 01 2018 3:34pm

Just a heads-up:

The recent CA 3.1 production release supports a new 24 pole basic PAS wheel sensor and the new 2018 Sempu torque-sensing BB. JLE just posted up about these on the Grin Blog. Both of these look really good with many magnets for quick start/stop detection. The BB is priced really attractively - if I didn't already have a Thun, I'd be lining up for this one... (maybe will anyway to get the bump from 8 to 24 magnets) :)

Check 'em out here: http://www.ebikes.ca/news/additional-torque-PAS/
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Mar 02 2018 1:30pm

Is it possble to disconnect the "PAS sensor" wires from the BB sensor (THUN, TDCM, etc) and run just those to a 24-magnet-wheel & sensor on the cranks, but still use the BB sensor for torque sensing? And change the number of PAS poles to 24?

Would this work as desired? Or have some bad side-effect I havent' considered?



Also, is there a way I haven't found to force the CA to just use torque to startup from a stop, without pedal rotation? It'd be fine if it requires some minimum torque to start working--whatever it is would be less than that needed to get the trike moving with a few hundred pounds of cargo or dog on there. ;)

I know why it would be bad normally, but on my trike I need that in order to be able to startup from a stop with a heavy load, without a throttle.

I have an idea for some external electronics that would "fake" the rotation part at startup, but I'd rather have the CA do everything and not interfere with it. (and I don't know that it would work, either)

I'm in the process of configuring the first basic part (ensuring PAS and speed limiting works as needed) of my new setup for it over here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=92973
and have gotten the basics working here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1361845

Not a part of the issue/question here in this thread, but in case it's relevant: Eventually it will have independent throttles for the two rear wheels (because it's extremely useful for steering tighter corners to only use power on the outer wheel), that don't go thru the CAv3.1, but that are also controlled by a TDCM TorquePAS sensor so I am not using throttle at all except under specific conditions that require my override of normal operation. That will require a bit of external-to-the-CA wiring and electronics that I'm still working out, and isn't part of the CA operation itself (I already have a few ways I can bypass or disable the CA stuff as needed automatically).

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by kevinscargobike » Mar 02 2018 5:58pm

I just ordered a Sempu (I think I got the last of the initial shipment), along with a Phaserunner & CA3. (to be used with a Mac motor, maybe two eventually, on a cargo bike)

I think that I'd been hoping to combine torque sensing with the closed loop throttle mode for speed, with a potentiometer modifying the relationship between my human wattage and the speed that I'm going. That way I'd put in my 150 watts to go 15 mph on the flat, and as I begin to climb a hill, my 150 watts would continue to map to 15 mph, and the closed loop throttle mode would figure out the power necessary to keep that happening - I wouldn't need to touch any controls or shift gears, my big hill coming home just gets flattened. I'm guessing that's not an option? Maybe it would ruin the bionic leg feeling, because rather than proportional output, the bike would feel very unnatural as it put in huge wattage to reach 15 mph as soon as I put in 150 watts...?

Somehow or another, I like the idea of torque output being automatically scaled to make up for headwinds and hills by factoring a loss of speed relative to the total wattage being applied by the rider and motor. I certainly don't need it, but it sounds cool.

(Sort of related, while waiting for a replacement blue gear on my Tsdz2, I was commuting on unassisted road bike with nice light wheels, and as I accelerated up a slight rise, for just a second, I thought to myself "the assist on this bike is incredibly responsive!" )

Less specifically related, has it ever come up to make the CA software open source? It's not the kind of programming I do, so I'd be afraid of making an accidental death machine, but it certainly seems like the kind of project that would benefit from outside pull requests and such.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 04 2018 1:24am

kevinscargobike wrote:
Mar 02 2018 5:58pm
I think that I'd been hoping to combine torque sensing with the closed loop throttle mode for speed, with a potentiometer modifying the relationship between my human wattage and the speed that I'm going.
This is not a supported mode of operation.

However, you can use a pot to set your PAS human watts to motor watts scale factor and a digital Aux switch to scale MaxSpeed. This will allow you to dial up some different operating modes - in particular, you can set the PAS Assist scale factor pretty high and the dial down the speed limiter to your desired speed. When you pedal, the assist will work pretty much as normal for low effort/low rpm but will quickly ramp up to big power as you drop into your normal 'comfort' cadence. At that point there should be a surplus of assist but the speed control will hold the bike at the set speed (say 15mph). As you encounter hills, etc, the speed setting will hold the 15 mph assuming your assist is high enough to power the bike at that speed for the incline. So - you can pretty much work as hard as you want and the bike will hold the set speed. This can essentially be a PAS-activated cruise control where the set speed is adjustable.

So - not exactly what you are looking for, but similar in some respects...
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 04 2018 1:28am

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 02 2018 1:30pm
Is it possble to disconnect the "PAS sensor" wires from the BB sensor (THUN, TDCM, etc) and run just those to a 24-magnet-wheel & sensor on the cranks, but still use the BB sensor for torque sensing? And change the number of PAS poles to 24?
Yes. That will work fine and would be an inexpensive upgrade for those with older existing torque sensors.
amberwolf wrote:
Mar 02 2018 1:30pm
Also, is there a way I haven't found to force the CA to just use torque to startup from a stop, without pedal rotation?
Nope. The present implementation demands pedal rotation to obtain assist.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Mar 04 2018 3:44am

teklektik wrote:
Mar 04 2018 1:28am
amberwolf wrote:
Mar 02 2018 1:30pm
Also, is there a way I haven't found to force the CA to just use torque to startup from a stop, without pedal rotation?
Nope. The present implementation demands pedal rotation to obtain assist.
What are the chances of adding this as an option, with a minimum-torque level setting? Even if it's a hidden one that you ahve to know is there in the setup program on the PC, and not even avaialble thru the on-CA menus, to prevent poeple from accidentally using it and turning their regular bikes into "deathtraps". ;)

I'd guess pretty slim, given that my use-case is presently very rare, as there are very few heavy cargo bikes/trikes that have to do what I do how I do it, ridden by people that can't push the pedals hard enough to startup on their own without the assist.

(and yes, I could just manually use the throttle to do the startup, but not much point in using the PAS control if it can't do the whole control job, I can just use the throttle for the whole thing. ;) )


I'm sure I can build a relatively simple circuit that will translate the torque sensor's voltage range into a throttle range input, to feed into the CA's throttle input, that will only operate at a stop and just after motion begins. It'd just be much simpler and nicer if the CA could simply accept torque-only as an input for this portion.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by John in CR » Mar 05 2018 2:36am

I'm running 128V fresh off the charger and luckily I read the manual before connecting my Analogger to my CA3. I've got everything buttoned up and weather-proofed, so ideally I'd like to step the voltage down and use the pack voltage output from the CA to power my Analogger. What's the easiest way to accomplish this, or can the Analogger actually handle more than the 12-100V stated in the manual. I'm not using the torque sensor, so using the 10V supply on that plug on my CA3 would work for me as well.

Personally I see no value in having a pack voltage supply coming out of my CA. That's just another shock hazard on my handlebars.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 05 2018 6:43am

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 04 2018 3:44am
What are the chances of adding this as an option, with a minimum-torque level setting? Even if it's a hidden one that you ahve to know is there in the setup program on the PC, and not even avaialble thru the on-CA menus, to prevent poeple from accidentally using it and turning their regular bikes into "deathtraps". ;)
The answer to this is that we tried to get this feature in on the 3.1 release but found that there is more than meets the eye for it to be well behaved. Our plan was to provide PAS power from torque alone just for a certain time window. One that was long enough to allow the rider to get up to a speed where the crank RPM signal is coming in steady, and then it would switch to the normal torque+PAS signal operation. However, on as sensor like the THUN with just one side torque sensing, there's a huge period in the rotation where the torque is zero or even negative. This is handled well in our normal mode which does the average torque over the last full crank revolution, but when you just amplify torque alone you get no power during the right stroke. If you start pedaling with the left side, you'll get an initial boost that will then cut out once the right crank starts to take over.

IIRC we tried adding arbitrary time delays for the power to sustain through this but then if you start applying pedal force for a bit and change your mind there's a period where the motor wants to lurch you forwards. It's hard from the limited signals coming in to always properly infer what the rider is intending to do.

Anyways we have some other ideas that should help get more responsiveness from the low pole sensors like the THUN that I hope we we can roll into a 3.11 or 3.12 release.
(and yes, I could just manually use the throttle to do the startup, but not much point in using the PAS control if it can't do the whole control job, I can just use the throttle for the whole thing. ;) )
I can relate to being averse to throttle usage once you have PAS otherwise up and running, we get spoiled with a bike that seems to know what we want. The newer sensors like Sempu with their 24 pole cadence signal helps a lot, and your idea of tagging on one of the 24pole mini PAS sensors from King Meter to your 8 Pole Thun is certainly an interesting option too.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gronph » Mar 05 2018 7:01am

@justin_le

can you give us some more Info about this:
Next up on the CA3 front: Android app support
I am waiting for this since CA3 is out :D

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 05 2018 7:13am

John in CR wrote:
Mar 05 2018 2:36am
I'm running 128V fresh off the charger and luckily I read the manual before connecting my Analogger to my CA3.
Indeed it is!
I've got everything buttoned up and weather-proofed, so ideally I'd like to step the voltage down and use the pack voltage output from the CA to power my Analogger. What's the easiest way to accomplish this, or can the Analogger actually handle more than the 12-100V stated in the manual.
We're using an LM5009 which really is max at 100V and would definitely fry if hooked up directly to your pack . One easy way to accomplish your goal would be to wire up a 30V zener diode in series with the V+ output of the CA's power tap. Since the analogger is running a dc-dc converter on it's input the actual current draw at close to 100V is quite low, just a 4-5 mA. A 1/2 watt zener would be fine.

Another option with a 128V pack is just to run any cheapo 12V output switchmode wall adapter directly from your main battery bank. You readily can find one that already has a 5.5x2.1mm DC plug on it too to go right into the Analogger power port.
https://www.amazon.ca/PiBridge-Adapter- ... B01MPVZSKE
etc.
I'm not using the torque sensor, so using the 10V supply on that plug on my CA3 would work for me as well.
This won't work unfortunately, the voltage is a tad too low and the current draw from the analogger at this low of a voltage would be too high for the CA's 10V tap.
Personally I see no value in having a pack voltage supply coming out of my CA. That's just another shock hazard on my handlebars.
Agreed for sure. The cable harnessing on the CA is intended for ebike applications that are all in the 36-52V range and occasionally 72V. But for system >100V it would be smart to remove the DC jack completely by desoldering the leads at the PCB. It's really not a connector style that is meant for high voltage.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Mar 05 2018 8:00pm

justin_le wrote:
Mar 05 2018 6:43am
The answer to this is that we tried to get this feature in on the 3.1 release but found that there is more than meets the eye for it to be well behaved. Our plan was to provide PAS power from torque alone just for a certain time window. One that was long enough to allow the rider to get up to a speed where the crank RPM signal is coming in steady, and then it would switch to the normal torque+PAS signal operation. However, on as sensor like the THUN with just one side torque sensing, there's a huge period in the rotation where the torque is zero or even negative. This is handled well in our normal mode which does the average torque over the last full crank revolution, but when you just amplify torque alone you get no power during the right stroke. If you start pedaling with the left side, you'll get an initial boost that will then cut out once the right crank starts to take over.
Since I'm using a TDCM on the SB Cruiser trike, then it doesn't have the same issue as the THUN, as it senses both sides.

So I'd guess I wouldn't likely have a problem, before the rotation is sufficient to kick in and get the system running in dual-sensor mode.

Which beta versions (if any) have that feature? I'd be willing to try them out to see if they'll do what I need. :) Heck, I'd even use an alpha version to test it out, and if anything else is broken that I don't require, I'd be perfectly happy with that. ;)


The main issue I'd have other than that is that when I stop moving the cranks, the CA needs to stop outputting throttle instantly (as instantly as possible for however many poles the rotation sensor has). I have a few kW on tap and if I'm in a parking lot or in close slow-and-go traffic and something happens in front of me that doesn't require braking (and would be actively bad to brake cuz I'd get hit from behind) but does require cessation of power input. If it keeps outputting power for a half second, I'd probably hit whatever it was in front of me.

Pedalling backwards even a teensy fraction of a rotation does this powercut, but I might not have time to do that part--might only have time to stop pedalling.

I'm going to try the 24-pole external magnet ring and see what happens. It should be easy enough to make my own ring, I have plenty of magnets and at least a couple of generic PAS sensors from 5- and 6-magnet units that I can install in the plastic cover next to my cranks, and stick the magnets either directly to the granny gear or to a plastic sheet I can fasten to the granny gear.

IIRC we tried adding arbitrary time delays for the power to sustain through this but then if you start applying pedal force for a bit and change your mind there's a period where the motor wants to lurch you forwards. It's hard from the limited signals coming in to always properly infer what the rider is intending to do.
I definitely understand, and especially on a regular bike there are a lot of things the average person does that they have to unlearn for certain types of setups, or else figure out settings on teh CA (or add other external hardware) that will deal with the behaviors they don't want to change.

I wouldn't want any delays at all--I only want the assist exactly as I am applying torque, and as I back off teh torque it backs off the assist, as I strengthen the torque it increases teh assist.

(because for me, it's not assist--at startup the motor has to do all the work and has to do it *right now*, especially with a few hundred pounds of load and traffic waiting behind me as the light turns green).

Anyways we have some other ideas that should help get more responsiveness from the low pole sensors like the THUN that I hope we we can roll into a 3.11 or 3.12 release.
You can always add a note that goes something like this: "In order to get the proper responsiveness if using a THUN (or similar low-pole-count torque sensor), you have to add a 24-pole (or whatever) PAS magnet ring sensor in addition to the THUN, and disconnect wires X Y Z from teh PAS sensor cable on teh CA/THUN cable, and connect the CA side of those wires to the PAS magnet-wheel sensor output instead."

It's not exactly ideal in that it complicates setup and wiring, and adds the cost of the extra sensor, but if it enables functionality that can't be properly had otherwise, I'm not going to be the only one that would be willing to do that to get it. :)


I can relate to being averse to throttle usage once you have PAS otherwise up and running, we get spoiled with a bike that seems to know what we want.
It's not really being averse to it--I still actually will require the throttles to work, too, for using the rear side motors to help steer sharper around corners with, so they'll still be used.

See this thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1362521
for the details of how the system is going to have to work and what I've figured out so far for it, and the electronics modules I'll have to design and build to work around the CA's present limitations.


However, the PAS needs to also be able to stand alone and control the motors as a pair. Sometimes one or both of my hands go numb, randomly, and I can still do things but not feel what I'm doing, and this gets worse as I get older. It's safer if I can have a PAS control that operates the trike without my hands' input, should I have both hands go numb at the same time but be in traffic and needing to continue on.

It's also in case they ever do pass ebike law changes here in AZ, so that if they make a mode where no throttle is allowed for either some type of bikes or to be able to use certain paths, I can qualify for that, switching to that mode on the CA, and using just PAS, etc.

But it does have to work the same way the throttle does, from a complete stop without my own power input making the trike move, to be useful. At present I'm still strong enough and my joints work well enough to be able to push hard enough in the lowest gear to get the trike moving unloaded, without a lot of pain--but this isn't always true, and as I get older it's going to worsen, and eventually I expect to be unable to do it at all.

The newer sensors like Sempu with their 24 pole cadence signal helps a lot, and your idea of tagging on one of the 24pole mini PAS sensors from King Meter to your 8 Pole Thun is certainly an interesting option too.
It's actually the 12 pole TDCM now (my original CAv3 is still dead from the speedsensor/battery+ short at the molded shunt's wire exit), and the THUN is still on CrazyBike2); I traded Cvin work on her bikes & stuff for the TDCM/CAv3 we'd setup on her Cemoto she's now selling off, as she now has other PAS bikes like Radrover, Haibike, etc. that do what she wants without the complication/expense of the CA/etc. (though there are features the CA has those don't, she doesn't need them).

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by John in CR » Mar 05 2018 10:02pm

Thx Justin. The 30V Zener sounds perfect. I do already have a 12V switcher aboard for lighting, but all of my wiring is already sealed up and ready for rainy season. I'm trying to avoid opening up the wiring harness, since it would mean cutting off and redoing all of my weather protection efforts. Now to find one done here in Costa Rica.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Mar 10 2018 3:41am

Hi Teklektik..I had a brief question about the external speedo pick up.
I use it for detecting my speed rathan than connecting the speedo wire to the motor.
I have mine mounted on the front wheel.
Does the CA count the total mileage when the motor isnt moving but the bike is? Thx

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Mar 10 2018 4:57am

it counts the pulses from the sensor, wherever you have it mounted.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 10 2018 10:09am

ebike11 wrote:
Mar 10 2018 3:41am
...about the external speedo pick up...
Does the CA count the total mileage when the motor isnt moving but the bike is?
Exactly.
This is the primary reason for wheel sensor support -- to accommodate drives where there is a clutch or other mechanism between the motor and the wheel such that speed over ground derived from wheel rpm cannot be directly determined from motor rpm. This is most commonly the case with gear motors or mid-drives.

The CA uses the SPD input - either from the pickup or the motor - to calculate speed then derive distance and Wh/mi, etc. The speed determination is based on the configured wheel circumference and pole count (pulses per revolution), so the exact source of the SPD pulses is unimportant as long as they are synchronized with wheel rotation.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Mar 10 2018 11:00pm

teklektik wrote:
Mar 10 2018 10:09am
ebike11 wrote:
Mar 10 2018 3:41am
...about the external speedo pick up...
Does the CA count the total mileage when the motor isnt moving but the bike is?
Exactly.
This is the primary reason for wheel sensor support -- to accommodate drives where there is a clutch or other mechanism between the motor and the wheel such that speed over ground derived from wheel rpm cannot be directly determined from motor rpm. This is most commonly the case with gear motors or mid-drives.

The CA uses the SPD input - either from the pickup or the motor - to calculate speed then derive distance and Wh/mi, etc. The speed determination is based on the configured wheel circumference and pole count (pulses per revolution), so the exact source of the SPD pulses is unimportant as long as they are synchronized with wheel rotation.
So maybe I would need to use the CA and wire the CA directly to the motor to see exactly how many miles/kilometers I accumulated by MOTOR ONLY and then a regular speedometer with a wheel pick up sensor that would include both MOTOR and PEDALING. Then I could minus CA mileage total from the speedometer total to see my actual PEDALING mileage. Correct?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gronph » Mar 15 2018 4:53am

I have a new Sempu 3th generation non-contact torque sensor:

http://www.sempu.net/goods/detail/37.htm

The technical Data says: Voltage scale: 0.25V/10Kg.F

What do I have to input in CA3 in mV/N.M?

Technical Data pdf: http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Sempu_Se ... l_2018.pdf

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by kevinscargobike » Mar 16 2018 12:25am

gronph wrote:
Mar 15 2018 4:53am
The technical Data says: Voltage scale: 0.25V/10Kg.F

What do I have to input in CA3 in mV/N.M?
I'm curious about this too, I tried my Sempu for the first time last night, and the Hwt numbers seemed at least 50-75% too generous. (I'm assuming this is what I would tweak to improve Hwt accuracy).

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by nieles » Mar 20 2018 8:08am

gronph wrote:
Mar 15 2018 4:53am
I have a new Sempu 3th generation non-contact torque sensor:

http://www.sempu.net/goods/detail/37.htm

The technical Data says: Voltage scale: 0.25V/10Kg.F

What do I have to input in CA3 in mV/N.M?

Technical Data pdf: http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Sempu_Se ... l_2018.pdf
pretty simple. 1Kg.F is 9.80665N.M and 1V is 1000mV

step 1 -> 0.25V/98.0665N.M (subtituting NM for KgF)
step 2 ->250mV/98.0665N.M (substituting mV for V)
step 3 ->2.54929mV/N.M (divide both with 98.0665 to get mV per N.M)

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 20 2018 8:32am

Since the Sempu is a supported device that can be selected by menu via the 'Device Sensor Type', all other PAS device settings are made automatically in that category as described in the Help File and Tool Tips. Although you can change these in the CA, there is normally no need to do so.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gronph » Mar 20 2018 8:45am

nieles wrote:
Mar 20 2018 8:08am
gronph wrote:
Mar 15 2018 4:53am
I have a new Sempu 3th generation non-contact torque sensor:

http://www.sempu.net/goods/detail/37.htm

The technical Data says: Voltage scale: 0.25V/10Kg.F

What do I have to input in CA3 in mV/N.M?

Technical Data pdf: http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Sempu_Se ... l_2018.pdf
pretty simple. 1Kg.F is 9.80665N.M and 1V is 1000mV

step 1 -> 0.25V/98.0665N.M (subtituting NM for KgF)
step 2 ->250mV/98.0665N.M (substituting mV for V)
step 3 ->2.54929mV/N.M (divide both with 98.0665 to get mV per N.M)
Thank you very much!

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