Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Get real world experience and user feedback on the electric bicycle products.
User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 18 2018 2:04pm

that did help a lot. i desoldered the SP pad and it still shows 0.6-0.7V. the reed switch as such closes with a magnet moving by. i guess i'll need to contact justin. fortunately i have a spare v3 lying around - it's just that all wires are customized by me and i have to do a lot of soldering.

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jun 18 2018 3:17pm

So - no arrow flipping when you shorted the unsoldered pad?

This seems like an odd out-of-the-blue failure. When did this occur? What firmware were you running?

Yep - my first bike has a radically customized CA installation and I hate to touch it. The only plus side is that everything is connectorized so I can pull the CA and reattach all the short custom cables on the bench - I hate soldering and crimping in free air standing over the bike...
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 18 2018 3:33pm

i didn't test the arrow flipping thing as the pad showed such a low voltage.
it happened suddenly w/o warning, nothing special that i could think of. CA was running b9 for month w/o issues. now it's on b22 but problem remained the same of course.

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jun 18 2018 3:38pm

Hmm - okay. Justin is in France just now, but Robbie and the guys can address your issue. It does sound like it took a static hit and something went south. Maybe you could get Justin to stop by for a consult on his Sun Tour excursion...
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
methods   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Jun 20 2018 2:28pm

gronph wrote:
Jun 15 2018 5:47am
are there any news with the Bluetooth/Android thig?
I have no idea who is working on it or what it is.

I have an implementation of BlueTooth that I developed for a Google team (around an Arduino) that provides a framework for an Android Phone. It is implemented using MIT APP Inventor 2. Data is passed bi-directionally in ASCII between the Android Phone and the Target. There is a heartbeat. You can send commands from the Android and collect state data with verification (CRC).

Key is keeping the BlueTooth alive.... at least in my implementation... as I specified the $10 jank dongles you can buy on Amazon.

Happy to share it if I can - MIT App Inventor 2 is a purely graphical language like LabView and the compiler is free to use. Anything that runs on Android can be ported over to the CA by a professional in half a day.

Once the data is moving back and forth... users (the community) can move legos around to make the front end look however they like. There are tons of tools for buttons and displays.

It requires little to no programming experience... but then... without understanding of programming paradigms most folks wont get too far with it.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 20 2018 3:01pm

teklektik wrote:
Jun 18 2018 3:38pm
Hmm - okay. Justin is in France just now, but Robbie and the guys can address your issue. It does sound like it took a static hit and something went south. Maybe you could get Justin to stop by for a consult on his Sun Tour excursion...
justin and team are AWESOME! i still have to find a company that can beat grin's support! those guys (an you tek!) rock!

User avatar
solarEbike   10 W

10 W
Posts: 83
Joined: May 21 2018 3:38pm
Location: Oakland, California
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by solarEbike » Jun 20 2018 3:12pm

izeman wrote:
Jun 20 2018 3:01pm
justin and team are AWESOME!
Can confirm. Here's Justin making a house call at my workshop last month, hacking an analogger to work with the new solar firmware.
Justin hacking analogger.jpg
SWB recumbent, Grin all-axle hub (5T in 20" wheel), Phaserunner, 6x LiGo battery, 330 watt sun-tracking solar trailer with 3 Genasun MPPT boost controllers (in progress), CA3 (solar FW), GPS Analogger, Rohloff IGH. Solar ebike build, Website, Instagram, YouTube

User avatar
methods   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Jun 20 2018 3:37pm

Justin is Unreal...

He came to my house and split a cord of wood, then built a chicken coup from scratch. :shock:
The guy is 120% legit and so are the tools that he provides.

Whatever needs to be solved will be solved -
And...

I recommend the CA to Teachers who are looking to do any kind of classroom work in this ethos.
I try to spec the CA on any project I work on (and have... there are evil robots roaming around with CA's on them :mrgreen: )

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
Hyena   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5624
Joined: Aug 13 2008 9:10am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Hyena » Jun 20 2018 6:58pm

methods wrote:
Jun 20 2018 3:37pm
there are evil robots roaming around with CA's on them
CA-terminator.jpg
CA-terminator.jpg (114.6 KiB) Viewed 751 times
:mrgreen:
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...

User avatar
methods   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Jun 21 2018 11:20am

Close... but more like this:
.
.
.
IMG_0024.jpg
IMG_0024.jpg (209.6 KiB) Viewed 694 times
source: EM
.
.
.

Thats not the "evil one".
The Evil one was 4 hub motors on 10" custom machined omni-directional wheels running 60V autonomous/remote control
We chased Astro Teller out of the lab with it- literally.

The machine would move in the most creepy way... it could swing and pivot and had no preference forward, sideways.. :shock:
(Hard to describe in words - no longer have the videos)

Suffice to say... it was a terrifying implementation of what future security robotics could end up being.
No escape if one gets after you.

Justin was hesitant to support our project :mrgreen:
We gave him assurances that we would "kill it" if it got out of control.

(All the robots had a remote kill which required physical human boot-strapping to bring back up. Rule #1 to autonomous beings)

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 21 2018 2:53pm

Tek: one more question : i received the new CA. On powering up it shows. 3.02 CALI.
I don't know what to adjust here and not how to exit this menu. Do you have any ideas?
Thanks

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jun 21 2018 3:06pm

Hey izeman-
Looks like you got a CA that has the calibration firmware that is used by manufacturing to calibrate each device. This is supposed to get re-flashed with the current production release after calibration, but yours looks to have missed the last step (interrupted during lunch break?).

Just set up to flash your firmware of choice and power cycle the CA to get the download underway.
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

v3.11b3 Released!

Post by teklektik » Jun 21 2018 3:17pm

v3.11b3 Released

Thanks to Marc S. sleuthing out a display bug, we have 3.11b3 available via the CA Setup Utility. Press 'Get New Firmware' on the toolbar and select the 'Download beta firmware' checkbox.

This fixes a battery 'hot swap' display issue and improves the PAS start time a bit as well.

If you are still using 3.1, we strongly recommend that you upgrade to this release to address a couple of significant bugs in 3.1.

This 3.11b3 release is a Release Candidate for the 3.11 production release, so we would appreciate a good thrashing by beta testers. We would like to get 3.11 formally released at end of next week.

So, download away and give it a workout!
Last edited by teklektik on Jun 22 2018 11:14am, edited 1 time in total.
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
methods   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Jun 21 2018 4:12pm

Thank you for your service teklektik!

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jun 21 2018 6:43pm

Hey methods!
Good to see you back (or surfaced) again!

Honestly, it's way cool to be part of the Grin journey :)
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
methods   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4401
Joined: Aug 08 2008 12:08pm
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Jun 22 2018 6:08pm

Justin is a special and unique guy.
Every time he comes around I am inspired to create the positive change that I want to see in the world.

The CA is my favorite tool... and I have convinced our Accountant that we need THREE for our current builds :wink:
(plus one for my test bench, and one for each DCS Power supply, and... :mrgreen: )

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 23 2018 10:03am

i need to raise that topic once again. i still don't fully understand all this limiting gain stuff. quite impressive to still have lack of knowledge after using the stuff for over 5 years now.
i programmed the newly received CA from grin with 3.11b3, which by the way did not work under windows7. worked flawlessly with linux ubuntu though. some serial issues i guess.

but back to the limiting stuff. i got 3 setups. legal 600W-25km/h, 2000W, and 3500W.

i set my throttle to "pass-thru". when riding the W limiting flag comes up. the controller COULD deliver (slightly) more amps/watts then 3500W, set to 60A battery @62V hot from the charger.
the "power settings" are 99A and 3500W. what GAINS are relevant in that case? Amps gain AND Power gain? or just the power gain, as the AMPS are never reached? does one of them influence the other?
only thing relevant to me is POWER, as this is constant over depleting battery, and can stay constant from full to empty battery.

the tip to raise GAIN until surging happens, and lowering it afterwards by 30% is a very long process, and i'm never sure that i got the optimum setting.

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 23 2018 10:09am

next questions: while replacing the CA i wanted to use the "new" digital aux switch feature as well, which is not covered yet in the unofficial CA guide afaik.
i once bought these little switches as a direct replacement for the 3pos switch, and would like to use it, but i haven't found a schematic. read something about diodes and stuff, but am unsure how to wire it exactly.
maybe tek can help? :)

Screenshot from 2018-06-23 17-06-43.png
Screenshot from 2018-06-23 17-06-43.png (144.75 KiB) Viewed 591 times

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jun 23 2018 11:37am

Sure -
I pulled down the DigiAux HowTo document when we switched to Schottky diodes and haven't had the time to update the doc. But since this is the second request in a week or so, I'll get on this. Should be able to post up the stuff after the weekend.

Those switches look good and they should snap right into a standard 3-position-switch mount. :)
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
tomjasz   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3926
Joined: Mar 29 2014 1:45pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by tomjasz » Jun 23 2018 2:01pm

My Roxim X4 light is fed from my CA3. On it's first night use it wouldn't light up completely, as in my testing. Am I missing something with my CA3 settings? I changed nothing, just turned it on the night before last and it's really dim. The rear LED lights up completely form the same CA3 source. Sound like a light problem, but I find that odd....
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jun 23 2018 2:46pm

There's nothing in the CA between the power leads and the accessory power plug except an auto-reset PTC polyfuse rated at 1A.

Sounds like a light problem...
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 24 2018 5:21am

could it be that there are still (again?) issues with shunt values that are ignored by the CA setup (3.11b3)?
my shunt is 1.43mOhm. whenever i enter it it jums back to 0.9mOhm. no matter if i choose high/low current shunt.

tek, maybe you've overseen it, and you could make this gain stuff more clear. three posts above. it drives me crazy not to understand how this works :lol:

User avatar
teklektik   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4020
Joined: Mar 26 2011 1:15pm
Location: CT, USA

Repairing Corrupted Calibration

Post by teklektik » Jun 24 2018 10:01am

izeman wrote:
Jun 24 2018 5:21am
my shunt is 1.43mOhm. whenever i enter it it jums back to 0.9mOhm. no matter if i choose high/low current shunt.
I believe your issue is caused by bogus protected settings for Hi/Lo amplifier gain. I think that when you were manipulating the Calibration firmware on your new CA you may have inadvertently pushed the gain settings to some bad values.

We are talking about these settings that are enabled in Setup Utility with the Preferences menu:

CA3_protectedCalibrationSettings.png
CA3_protectedCalibrationSettings.png (49.79 KiB) Viewed 502 times

There are a couple of ways to do this, but since I know this is a new CA with no old settings files, let's go with the simple shotgun approach to get things working quick and easy: Reflash 3.11b3 but select both checkboxes on the pop-up window. This will clobber everything in your CA and restore it to generic factory defaults. If you wish, you can recalibrate your voltage as you did before.

CA3_calibrationReset.png
CA3_calibrationReset.png (24.78 KiB) Viewed 502 times

General Note to CA Users: The unique per-device factory calibration is read by Setup Utility whenever you do a 'Read CA' even if the protected settings aren't displayed. It is a good idea to read a new CA first thing and store away that file in case you ever get in this situation. The original file can be written to the CA to restore the unique calibration settings and then you can flash the currently interesting firmware over them.
Last edited by teklektik on Jun 24 2018 9:22pm, edited 4 times in total.
Visit Grin Technologies at www.ebikes.ca
Build Thread: 2WD Yuba Mundo V4

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jun 24 2018 10:48am

thanks tek. worked perfectly fine. reflashed, and then immediately after wrote the settings. all working great again! btw: flashing with linux works imho much better and more stable then under windows.

User avatar
izeman   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4792
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: vienna, austria
Contact:

Post by izeman » Jun 24 2018 11:33am

and i'm back again :)

though i already adjusted my throttle handling to my mid drive (always applying a little throttle to put strain on the chain and drive train), i must say it would be fine to have this applied all the time.
i can't remember how far we discussed this feature suggestion, but i could think of it that way: if speed > 0, apply a pre-defined amount of current. maybe raise this current related to speed?!
i think this is something to be implemented quite easily - sure i have no idea how much precious memory would be needed for it.

Post Reply