Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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kevinscargobike   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by kevinscargobike » Sep 19 2018 11:52am

teklektik wrote:
Sep 19 2018 9:47am
Yep - that's not an uncommon situation. It's been mentioned before that an outline of some common configurations or Use Cases might be useful so that settings could be seen in play to address typical applications. But, a work in progress.... :D
I wonder if you could decentralize that work a bit with a web tool that was just a catalog of CA configurations - anyone can upload a configuration and it just makes the values browsable/linkable/downloadable.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Scotty T » Sep 22 2018 4:08am

Much better with revised settings. Still seems to surge a little at low speeds. Will do some more testing tomorrow.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Oct 03 2018 9:13pm

teklektik wrote:
Sep 17 2018 9:24am
Dumsterdave wrote:
Sep 17 2018 7:03am
Is it possible to enable regen without an ebrake or button? Like maybe just rolling off the throttle?
No.
Assuming that you have a controller that can do regen in the 0.0-0.8V throttle region (like a Grinfineon or Phaserunner), then there are actually 2 ways of activating regen without an ebrake input to the CA3.

#1 Set your Min Throttle Output to a value in the regen region: This is more or less like a setup that has engine braking, once you let go of the gas the vehicle slows down faster than if it was just coasting. We've seen people with Phaserunner's set the min throttle output voltage to like 0.6 volts to achieve this effect. It's more popular for scooters than for bikes since most cyclist want to be able to relax the throttle and still coast, but for bikes that have a PAS sensor it works OK since then you only have the regen brake come into play when you stop pedaling too.

#2 Enable Regen Speed Limiting: This way whenever you are exceeding the speed limit the bike will do proportional regen to slow you down. If you combine that with either the aux potentiometer or digi-aux control set to vary your speed limit, then you can easily slow down right to a stop via regen without a separate button input. I've actually grown pretty fond of this method and have used it as the primary means of using regen in certain setups (like a rowbike) where it's less awkward than using the brakes and a throttle.

The number 3 option which has been prototyped but not yet incorporated into the main CA3 firmware is regen that activated by backwards pedaling when you have a PAS sensor attached. We hope to have this featured incorporated into a later release build since it's nice to have options that don't require extra brake sensors on the bike.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 05 2018 11:30am

justin_le wrote:
Oct 03 2018 9:13pm
teklektik wrote:
Sep 17 2018 9:24am
Dumsterdave wrote:
Sep 17 2018 7:03am
Is it possible to enable regen without an ebrake or button? Like maybe just rolling off the throttle?
No.
Assuming that you have a controller that can do regen in the 0.0-0.8V throttle region (like a Grinfineon or Phaserunner), then there are actually 2 ways of activating regen without an ebrake input to the CA3.
Well - as you can see, we don't always agree on everything.... :lol:

justin_le wrote:
Oct 03 2018 9:13pm
#1 Set your Min Throttle Output to a value in the regen region: This is more or less like a setup that has engine braking, once you let go of the gas the vehicle slows down faster than if it was just coasting. We've seen people with Phaserunner's set the min throttle output voltage to like 0.6 volts to achieve this effect. It's more popular for scooters than for bikes since most cyclist want to be able to relax the throttle and still coast, but for bikes that have a PAS sensor it works OK since then you only have the regen brake come into play when you stop pedaling too.
Although I haven't tried this personally, I didn't go to the PAS situation since having regen braking applied whenever you stop pedaling seems like it will be ungood unless it is so mild as to be essentially non-existent or will require throttle application to coast which sort of dims the PAS aura. In any case, PAS-only regen is non-variable on the fly.

The throttle strategy is certainly doable, but again I am put off by the lack of user interface integration. This will work, but in the absence of a dual rotation direction throttle sprung to idle at the 'coasting' midpoint or at least a detent to give tactile feedback of the 'coast' position, this works but seems like it would be tiring or at least annoying. That said, if you wish to use this strategy and have a Phaserunner, I might suggest adjusting the PR voltages somewhat to expand the 'dead zone' between braking and normal throttle minimum. This will give you a larger zone of 'coasting' rotation that will be easier to hit. Perhaps something like this:

RevisedPrThrottleMap.png
RevisedPrThrottleMap.png (20.58 KiB) Viewed 1142 times

justin_le wrote:
Oct 03 2018 9:13pm
#2 Enable Regen Speed Limiting: This way whenever you are exceeding the speed limit the bike will do proportional regen to slow you down. If you combine that with either the aux potentiometer or digi-aux control set to vary your speed limit, then you can easily slow down right to a stop via regen without a separate button input.
Well, perhaps more accurately without an additional button control - but it requires adjusting the Aux control to alter the regen which I understood to be what was undesirable about the normal ebrakes/button solution. So - maybe I misunderstood. Anyhow. this setup works great if you want a speed-controlled PAS (sort of like pedal-activated cruise control) or have long hills to descend.

justin_le wrote:
Oct 03 2018 9:13pm
The number 3 option ... is regen that activated by backwards pedaling when you have a PAS sensor attached.
This is the more intuitive and integrated solution that I think DD is looking for - no additional controls and a pretty inuitive use of the normal bike controls... Not here yet, but visible on the horizon.

Anyhow - there are some possibilities here that are technically doable and may be attractive. Different strokes... :D
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solarEbike   10 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by solarEbike » Oct 05 2018 4:21pm

justin_le wrote:
Oct 03 2018 9:13pm
#2 Enable Regen Speed Limiting: This way whenever you are exceeding the speed limit the bike will do proportional regen to slow you down. If you combine that with either the aux potentiometer or digi-aux control set to vary your speed limit, then you can easily slow down right to a stop via regen without a separate button input. I've actually grown pretty fond of this method and have used it as the primary means of using regen in certain setups (like a rowbike) where it's less awkward than using the brakes and a throttle.
I've also come to embrace proportional regen for speed limiting. In my case, it's in addition to a TripWire switch on the brake lever and throttle to modulate regen. I have it set at 45 kph and I don't have to touch the brakes at all on most downhills. I miss the rush of bombing down some of these hills at 70+ kph but for solar ebike touring the regen Wh are more valuable to me.

However, I occasionally find myself holding up traffic behind me on one of these downhills. It would be nice to temporarily release the speed limit so I can go faster than 45 kph. Any suggestions on how I might do that without taking my eyes off the road or my hands off the handlebars? Aux potentiometer input is measuring solar amps and digi-aux is set to 1-btn controlling PAS level. I suppose I could give up the PAS level control :( and set digi-aux to control speed.

Is there another way? I'm planning to wire the PR on/off switch to one of my handlebar switches. Could I use that to turn off the PR on the fly or would this have undesirable consequences?
SWB recumbent, Grin all-axle hub (5T in 20" wheel), Phaserunner, 6x LiGo battery, 330 watt sun-tracking solar trailer with 3 Genasun MPPT boost controllers (in progress), CA3 (SolarAnalyst firmware), GPS Analogger, Rohloff IGH. Solar ebike build, Website, Instagram, YouTube

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 05 2018 7:42pm

solarEbike wrote:
Oct 05 2018 4:21pm
It would be nice to temporarily release the speed limit so I can go faster than 45 kph. Any suggestions on how I might do that without taking my eyes off the road or my hands off the handlebars?
The PR has some internal resistors to cause the default throttle input to be around a volt so there is no throttle and no regen. To deactivate the regen you could install a normally closed button on the bars that when pressed would break the CA_DP cable ThO connection. With a regen setting at 0.8V or less, breaking the connection would allow the PR input to return to the default 1V and release the regen. This would keep all the wiring at the CA PCB on the bars so you don't need to route any new wiring.

The only minor issue is that it's difficult to find pre-assembled N.C. momentary buttons with a handlebar mount. One solution is to replace the switch in an off-the-shelf bar-mount switch with a momentary button (e.g. 'standard' controller three-way switch replaced with a momentary SPDT mini-rocker). This can also be wrangled with a more available momentary SPST button by adding a couple of resistors and diodes inside the CA case...

solarEbike wrote:
Oct 05 2018 4:21pm
I'm planning to wire the PR on/off switch to one of my handlebar switches. Could I use that to turn off the PR on the fly or would this have undesirable consequences?
Yep. This has no bad electrical or operational effects. The only hiccup here is that if the throttle is above the min throttle voltage when powered up, the PR will not apply power until it's ZEROed. However, this is a simple minimum voltage check and the more negative regen voltage looks okay to the PR, so just powering it up will allow the regen speed limiting to resume immediately.

The last option is to reconfigure your DigiAux for speed limiting as JLE described above but with a conventional non-regen throttle minimum throttle voltage. The CA tries to apply huge pedal assist at any pedal effort but the speed limiting restrains the output to the specified speed. You just adjust the control for the desired speed and the motor makes up whatever power difference is needed. Here the Aux control also limits the downhill speed as well - which would allow you to just dial up the speed on the fly to relieve traffic congestion...

The only minor glitch is that there is presently no hysteresis between the max assist speed and the speed when regen speed limiting kicks in. This can lead to the motor switching between power and regen when traveling around the max speed. There is an open ticket to get this speed hysteresis feature implemented because this PAS/speed limiting setup is not an uncommon solar configuration.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Oct 08 2018 12:53pm

reading all this lately discussion, but not really following what you want to acchieve: may it be possible to change throttle MIN voltage to some higher value on the fly?
i know that neither the CA nor my controller finishes boot process in case the throttle is not zeroed (or below thr min). but after that: would it be able to raise throttle a tiny bit?
tek: you may notice where this demand comes from (once again *ggg*)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by eem29 » Oct 09 2018 1:37am

Hi there, sorry if this is the wrong place for this question - please direct me elsewhere if that is the case.

I have updated my CA to V3.13 and am having problems installing a quadrature PAS sensor (12 poles) I bought from Grin tech. No matter what I do, the P arrow always follows the D arrow when pedalling forwards and not the other way around, and will not engage the motor. I have tried changing the Dir polarity and I have tried swapping and flipping the sensor and magnet ring itself but nothing will change it. Whether it is 5v=FWD or 5v=REV the arrows go in the same order, P following D. When I pedal forward the RPMs are going up and it stays on 0 when pedalling backwards. When I pedal backwards the arrows go in the right order (D follows P) but still does not engage the motor. I've followed all the videos about it on youtube and read both the official and unofficial manuals but can't get it right.

Any advice is greatly appreciated I've spent so much time trying to figure it out I'm open to any ideas.

Thanks in advance!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 09 2018 8:19am

eem29 wrote:
Oct 09 2018 1:37am
I have updated my CA to V3.13
3.13 has not been released to beta yet so I'm not sure what you are running. This PAS issue shouldn't be affected in any case, but just to get you on the latest stuff, please load up 3.12.

eem29 wrote:
Oct 09 2018 1:37am
No matter what I do, the P arrow always follows the D arrow when pedalling forwards and not the other way around, and will not engage the motor. I have tried changing the Dir polarity and I have tried swapping and flipping the sensor and magnet ring itself but nothing will change it. Whether it is 5v=FWD or 5v=REV the arrows go in the same order, P following D.
Here we have the difference between the physical signals and the logical interpretation of the sensor signals. The P & D arrows reflect the hardware signals and no setting can change the physical hardware. The purpose of PASD->Dir Plrty setting is to adjust the logical idea of 'Forward Pedaling' to be correct as appropriate whatever the hardware signal.

eem29 wrote:
Oct 09 2018 1:37am
When I pedal forward the RPMs are going up and it stays on 0 when pedalling backwards. When I pedal backwards the arrows go in the right order (D follows P) but still does not engage the motor.
The CA RPM display shows the 'forward pedaling' RPM. If you are getting non-zero values then the CA is seeing the pedaling correctly. To summarize for your particular sensor: the Pas Device setup is simply:
  • PASD->PAS Poles = 12
  • PASD->SignlType = 2-wire
  • PASD->Dir Plrty = as appropriate to get RPM readings when pedaling forward.
It sounds as if you accomplished this in one of your permutations, so the sensor was installed okay - you need to get back to those PASD settings.

With the sensor device properly installed and working as above, you need to set the configuration for the pedal assist and for any Aux input you have installed. These configurations are distinct from the hardware installation and so appear in two additional Setup categories - don't go back and fiddle the PASD (PAS Device) settings.

You didn't mention what Aux device you have, so start by leaving that disabled.

For the Pedal Assist configuration set:
  • PAS->PASMode = Basic(Pwr)
  • PAS->StrtLevel = 500W
  • PAS->ScaleFactr = 0 W/rpm
  • PAS->StrtThrsh = default
  • PAS->StopThrsh = default
If you are using more than one preset make sure you do this for the present preset or just do it for all presets.

That should get you a working baseline from which to start. Next you can configure your Aux control for PAS Limiting.
If the settings above don't work, post up a setup file.
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amberwolf   100 GW

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Power limit max 1kW in high range, 100W in low range?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 11 2018 7:10pm

I feel like I've tried to deal with this before, but I can't remember the results (and am perpetually wiped out these days making it harder to think about stuff), and I can't find any previous posts of mine that talk about it, which probably means I didn't actually ever post anything, so here goes:



In the CA v3.1, is there a reason that the Plim setting can only go to 100w in low range (shunt calibration range), and 1kW in high range?

And is there a way to change this, at my end, or does it require a change to the firmware?



I'm using CA v3.1, and am trying to setup unlimited power, unlimited amps, so that the system can have full power (around 4kW at present) at startup, but could be limited in speed to 20MPH, and can be controlled by TorquePAS.

I've gone over this page
http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/CA3-1_settings.html
with no helpful info found. I've used the UUG previously to do the setup of this unit, then using the above page for reference for anything that's different than the UUG covers.

I do have the Grin serial-USB cable, and a Windows10 PC with the setup utility on there, so I can upload/download/etc whatever's needed to troubleshoot and fix this, if it's possible to do at all.



The CA has to use the high range for the shunt, because to get enough current safely thru it (potentially over 120A presently for a few seconds max at startup) I've paralleled two Grin 1mOhm shunts, for 0.5mOhm shunt value. Can't enter that into the CA unless it's in High Range. Eventually I'll have to get an even bigger shunt, to use the higher currents Incememed's SFOC controller can pull, when I get to that phase in testing it. (presently I'm just using a couple of basic "generic" controllers).

But in High Range, I can only enter up to 1kW in the power limit setting. I can have up to 999A, but it won't take any more than 1.0 in the kW field. (In low range, I can only enter up to 100W!).


It'd be better if the CA would simply accept a Zero in a limit field as a "no limit" but it doesn't work like that. Since it doesn't, I need to be able to enter a power limit of of at least 4kW to get beyond the amount of power I can presently produce, so that the CA does not actually limit the power at all.

I've set Pgain and Again to their maxes, which increases the snappiness of response but of course doesn't change the actual limits.


Right now, regardless of throttle setup (pass thru, current, or watts), or what I have for other limiting settings, it limits me to less than 1kW, which means I cannot use the CA to control throttle at all, even just for speed limiting, cruise control, PAS, etc., so I have to directly connect the throttle to the controller, bypassing the CA entirely except for measurements.

There may be some other thing I'm missing, that's interacting and causing my problems, but I'm pretty sure it's just that watt limit setting.

I've been considering electronics that pass the actual hand throttle signal completely around the CA to the controllers, without feeding any of it back into the CA's output, and still letting the CA take that throttle signal to ensure it's speed limited if necessary (if I switch off the bypass), and to let the CA take the PAS input and still send throttle output to the controllers for that.

But it shouldn't require that to do this; the CA should be capable of higher numbers in the various fields. I can guess there are reasons it doesn't allow them, but I don't know what they are.


So right now, startups take far too long, with traffic being unhappy behind me at a light. Should take less than 4 seconds to get from 0-20MPH; presently with this issue it can take so long that I have to stop again before I even reach 20MPH, depending on conditions and load.





Another separate issue is that the max multiplier for PAS torque control is only 40, so if I'm only generating 50-60w human pedal power (it hurts to pedal very hard, which is the biggest reason I started using motors a decade ago, and it's much worse nowadays), I would only get a max of a couple kW motor power. Need to get at least twice that at startups, though I only need half that or less to cruise at 20MPH under most conditions. (there's other issues too, but those have been covered in previous posts, and I just have to someday build the electronics workarounds for those that can be worked around, and live with the other issues).

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Re: Power limit max 1kW in high range, 100W in low range?

Post by teklektik » Oct 12 2018 11:58am

amberwolf wrote:
Oct 11 2018 7:10pm
In the CA v3.1, is there a reason that the Plim setting can only go to 100w in low range (shunt calibration range), and 1kW in high range?
There is no such limit.
Here are the default values for 3.1 - your observed limit is not in play:

CA3-1_HiRangePowerLimit.png
CA3-1_HiRangePowerLimit.png (43.02 KiB) Viewed 932 times

amberwolf wrote:
Oct 11 2018 7:10pm
And is there a way to change this...?
The Absolute Power Limit and other limits are controlled in the OEM settings. I suspect that you have either altered these or your EEPROM has some corruption that is affecting these values.

CA3-1_OemAbsLimits.png
CA3-1_OemAbsLimits.png (42.3 KiB) Viewed 932 times

First, reflash your CA with 3.12 to get the newest 3.1 bug fixes.
Then examine and correct your Absolute Max settings. If that is ineffective then re-flash to defaults and manually rebuild your setup without using a pre-existing setup file.

amberwolf wrote:
Oct 11 2018 7:10pm
I've gone over this page
http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/CA3-1_settings.html
with no helpful info found.

Another separate issue is that the max multiplier for PAS torque control is only 40, so if I'm only generating 50-60w human pedal power ... I ... only get a max of a couple kW motor power. Need to get at least twice that at startups,...
The 40x multiplier was chosen to provide a reasonable maximum controllable power for PAS vehicles. Your infirmity that limits pedal torque and the exceptionally heavy vehicle fall somewhat outside those CA design parameters. That said:
  1. Since your primary issue appears to be with startup, you should first try the standard adjustment and increase the startup assist as described in the 3.1 ToolTips and Help, perhaps with a value of (-25HW) to (-50HW).

    CA3-1_StartLevelHelpInstructions.png
    CA3-1_StartLevelHelpInstructions.png (55.11 KiB) Viewed 930 times
    .
  2. You can go after the 40x assist scaling limit by increasing PASD->TrqScale to yield a higher apparent crank torque. This will have an effect similar to increasing the Assist Scale Factor but will distort the displayed HW. However, choosing an integral multiplier will make it easy to mentally divide the displayed HW while essentially expanding the Assist Scale Factor. For instance, doubling TrqScale will result in a displayed HW 2x actual while expanding the maximum assist to 2x40 = 80x HW.
Some combination of these two strategies should resolve your issue.
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Re: Power limit max 1kW in high range, 100W in low range?

Post by amberwolf » Oct 12 2018 9:59pm

teklektik wrote:
Oct 12 2018 11:58am
amberwolf wrote:
Oct 11 2018 7:10pm
In the CA v3.1, is there a reason that the Plim setting can only go to 100w in low range (shunt calibration range), and 1kW in high range?
There is no such limit.
Here are the default values for 3.1 - your observed limit is not in play:


CA3-1_HiRangePowerLimit.png
Hmm. Well, it seemed strange that there would be a limit like that...

So...interesting, and strange. When I look at the configuration file used to create the settings, it shows OEM limits different from what you show in the OEM settings pic, but all much higher than what I need. It says 600mi/hr max, instead of 500km/hr; 600kW instead of 50000.00W; 2000.0A instead of 99.99A. If I look at the defaults in a brand new file, it shows what you show. Shouldn't be the cause either way, though, right?


So there must be some sort of corruption in the CA itself, then. I wonder what caused it? (AFAICR I've had this issue ever since setting up this CA on the trike in place of the 2.x version). And I wonder if that is also what is causing the lower-than-actual current readings this one has always had (vs the 2.x version using the same shunt and shunt value).

I'll manually note down all the unit-specific calibration settings (which I've also previously saved in the setup program just in case),and perform the steps you give below, and see what happens, and report back here.
First, reflash your CA with 3.12 to get the newest 3.1 bug fixes.
Then examine and correct your Absolute Max settings. If that is ineffective then re-flash to defaults and manually rebuild your setup without using a pre-existing setup file.




Thank you very much for the below, too; I'll see if that helps enough. If not, I may just have to use throttle to startup sometimes, or an "override button" that just gives me full power until I let go. I still have to make a kind of bypass circuit that allows me to use throttles for "tank style" steering as an override for the system in turns, controlled by the rotation angle of the steering, since that makes a tremendous difference to the sharpness of turns at speed, so a button override would be easy compared to that. :)

Am just hoping I can make this all PAS controlled (other than the steering thing) eventually, cuz my hands get the sudden-numbness problem more and more often (regardless of what I'm doing), and when it happens I can't tell what my hands are actually doing vs what I'm telling them to do, unless I look at them. If I don't have to rely on them to control the throttles, that's one less thing to worry about. :)

The 40x multiplier was chosen to provide a reasonable maximum controllable power for PAS vehicles. Your infirmity that limits pedal torque and the exceptionally heavy vehicle fall somewhat outside those CA design parameters. That said:
  1. Since your primary issue appears to be with startup, you should first try the standard adjustment and increase the startup assist as described in the 3.1 ToolTips and Help, perhaps with a value of (-25HW) to (-50HW).


    CA3-1_StartLevelHelpInstructions.png
    .
  2. You can go after the 40x assist scaling limit by increasing PASD->TrqScale to yield a higher apparent crank torque. This will have an effect similar to increasing the Assist Scale Factor but will distort the displayed HW. However, choosing an integral multiplier will make it easy to mentally divide the displayed HW while essentially expanding the Assist Scale Factor. For instance, doubling TrqScale will result in a displayed HW 2x actual while expanding the maximum assist to 2x40 = 80x HW.
Some combination of these two strategies should resolve your issue.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by eem29 » Oct 13 2018 6:51pm

teklektik wrote:
Oct 09 2018 8:19am
eem29 wrote:
Oct 09 2018 1:37am
I have updated my CA to V3.13
3.13 has not been released to beta yet so I'm not sure what you are running. This PAS issue shouldn't be affected in any case, but just to get you on the latest stuff, please load up 3.12.

eem29 wrote:
Oct 09 2018 1:37am
No matter what I do, the P arrow always follows the D arrow when pedalling forwards and not the other way around, and will not engage the motor. I have tried changing the Dir polarity and I have tried swapping and flipping the sensor and magnet ring itself but nothing will change it. Whether it is 5v=FWD or 5v=REV the arrows go in the same order, P following D.
Here we have the difference between the physical signals and the logical interpretation of the sensor signals. The P & D arrows reflect the hardware signals and no setting can change the physical hardware. The purpose of PASD->Dir Plrty setting is to adjust the logical idea of 'Forward Pedaling' to be correct as appropriate whatever the hardware signal.

eem29 wrote:
Oct 09 2018 1:37am
When I pedal forward the RPMs are going up and it stays on 0 when pedalling backwards. When I pedal backwards the arrows go in the right order (D follows P) but still does not engage the motor.
The CA RPM display shows the 'forward pedaling' RPM. If you are getting non-zero values then the CA is seeing the pedaling correctly. To summarize for your particular sensor: the Pas Device setup is simply:
  • PASD->PAS Poles = 12
  • PASD->SignlType = 2-wire
  • PASD->Dir Plrty = as appropriate to get RPM readings when pedaling forward.
It sounds as if you accomplished this in one of your permutations, so the sensor was installed okay - you need to get back to those PASD settings.

With the sensor device properly installed and working as above, you need to set the configuration for the pedal assist and for any Aux input you have installed. These configurations are distinct from the hardware installation and so appear in two additional Setup categories - don't go back and fiddle the PASD (PAS Device) settings.

You didn't mention what Aux device you have, so start by leaving that disabled.

For the Pedal Assist configuration set:
  • PAS->PASMode = Basic(Pwr)
  • PAS->StrtLevel = 500W
  • PAS->ScaleFactr = 0 W/rpm
  • PAS->StrtThrsh = default
  • PAS->StopThrsh = default
If you are using more than one preset make sure you do this for the present preset or just do it for all presets.

That should get you a working baseline from which to start. Next you can configure your Aux control for PAS Limiting.
If the settings above don't work, post up a setup file.
Hi There and thanks so much !
Sorry if i haven't send You enough info.
The firmware is 3.12
The bike is Qulbix 76R ,72V 20 Amp hours .
I have Aux 3 botton + - and the off button .
I don't have torque sensor ,e brake , second aux ,and temp sensor .
I did set up exactly what You mention ,still no luck .
I have RPM working , aux been set PAS level working but nothing happens when im paddling . I have attached my set up , can You please have a look at ?
Regards Jeno
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 12.22.27.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 12.22.16.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 12.22.05.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 12.20.25.png

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 14 2018 10:18am

eem29 wrote:
Oct 13 2018 6:51pm
I have RPM working , aux been set PAS level working but nothing happens when im paddling
Well two things:
  1. You have a configuration issue:

    Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 12.20.25 annotated.png
    Screen Shot 2018-10-14 at 12.20.25 annotated.png (32.17 KiB) Viewed 852 times

    Set your throttle mode to PassThru and all will work fine. By setting throttle mode to Speed the throttle is suppressing all PAS output when the throttle is ZEROed as the CA tries to make the speed zero. If you had opened the throttle while pedaling, the PAS would have applied power. Post if you are trying to get speed-controlled PAS - that is usually done a different way.
    .
  2. More importantly - 3.12 seems to have a bug that prevents Basic(Pwr) mode from working in Hi Range.

    Darn.
    Torque mode works okay but bench testing seems to show that the (simpler) Basic (Pwr) mode is broken and there is never any assist. I guess this never got noticed because PAS isn't that popular for bikes powerful enough to need Hi Range... There are ways to get this working with 3.12 by tricking torque mode, but since this is a serious bug, we'll get it fixed straightaway. I will PM you with repaired firmware this week that will address this issue and we will fold the repair into the upcoming 3.13 release.
The bug in (#2) prevents the configuration fix in (#1) from working, but once you get the repaired firmware, you will still need to do (#1).

Thanks for posting up about this (not that I like to hear about bugs, but...)
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eem29   1 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by eem29 » Oct 14 2018 2:22pm

Thank you so much for all your help, I will change the setting to PAS through and wait for new firmware.

Thanks again I really appreciate it

Jeno

Dumsterdave   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » Oct 15 2018 2:29pm

Not sure what's up. I have a PR/CAv2 combo and everything worked great for the past few months. I haven't changed any settings, but now the used Ah on the display is waaaay off. I have a 52v battery that was charged to 56.5v and I used my battery down to 49.5v, but the CA says that I used 17.5Ah. I don't have regen enabled. At first I though that my speed and distance was also of, but I did a very short test with GPS and the speed seems pretty close, but I only tried for about 300 metres so it could be off. The setup calibration on the CA says "lo 1.00mΩ" us it a PR fault? Or CA fault? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 15 2018 4:10pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
Oct 15 2018 2:29pm
I have a 52v battery that was charged to 56.5v
So - I'm guessing this means a 14 cell battery that you partially charged to about 92%?
Dumsterdave wrote:
Oct 15 2018 2:29pm
the CA says that I used 17.5Ah.
Sort of meaningless without knowing the actual capacity in Ah.

Sorry, but you never actually described the issue. This value is too high? Too low?
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 16 2018 4:10pm

teklektik wrote:
Oct 14 2018 10:18am
eem29 wrote:
Oct 13 2018 6:51pm
...nothing happens when im paddling
I will PM you with repaired firmware this week that will address this issue and we will fold the repair into the upcoming 3.13 release.
hey eem29!
In case you're not getting PM notifications, I sent you an alpha version of 3.13 to try. This should fix the problem you uncovered and a bunch of other minor bugs. Post back with results. :)
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Dumsterdave   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » Oct 29 2018 9:09am

I turn on my cav3 and it just says "setup". Sometimes it'll ask if I want to reset defaults, but the buttons don't work... What's up? It's cold, but not wet out and it had been working fine. Even today, I put about 50kms on it before it started to act up. First it changed my display screen, then asked if I wanted to reset the trip odometer. Then it froze so i cycled the power and now it goes straight to the setup display

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 29 2018 11:18am

heyDD-
It sounds like a button or perhaps condensation problem that is causing phantom button pushes. In particular, holding the left button depressed on boot sends control directly to Setup - you primary symptom. Buttons not working is likely because one or more is stuck ON.
  1. Carefully unscrew the back and gently pull away the back - it'll be wired to the front display half.
  2. Follow the button cable down to the PCB and unplug it. This will be the same situation as the normal 'two-buttons-not-pressed' condition.
  3. Apply power and see if the CA boots normally.
  • If this works, then your buttons are likely dead. Email Grin for replacement part options.
  • If things don't work, then there may be moisture on the PCB. Leave the case open to dry and try again.
  • If that doesn't work, email Grin and they can give you more informed assistance and repair options.
buttonCable.jpg
buttonCable.jpg (90.02 KiB) Viewed 598 times
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Dumsterdave   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » Oct 29 2018 4:49pm

teklektik wrote:
Oct 29 2018 11:18am
heyDD-
It sounds like a button or perhaps condensation problem that is causing phantom button pushes. In particular, holding the left button depressed on boot sends control directly to Setup - you primary symptom. Buttons not working is likely because one or more is stuck ON.
  1. Carefully unscrew the back and gently pull away the back - it'll be wired to the front display half.
  2. Follow the button cable down to the PCB and unplug it. This will be the same situation as the normal 'two-buttons-not-pressed' condition.
  3. Apply power and see if the CA boots normally.
  • If this works, then your buttons are likely dead. Email Grin for replacement part options.
  • If things don't work, then there may be moisture on the PCB. Leave the case open to dry and try again.
  • If that doesn't work, email Grin and they can give you more informed assistance and repair options.

buttonCable.jpg
I unplugged the buttons and the CA works normally. So I guess it must be dead buttons like you say.
I guess I'll be getting some new parts :/.

Is there any harm in disconnecting the buttons and running the CA without them until I get a replacement?

Thanks for the quick help

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Tom on 101   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Tom on 101 » Oct 30 2018 6:40pm

Hello and thank you for the past responses!

Today I'm Having trouble with my PAS set up. I've been using the attached profile for the CA and it has worked well in the past for basic PAS but today I'm getting a capital S on the diagnostic screen once peddling is detected(which I haven't seen before), so the result is a bit of throttle and then the S flag and the throttle cuts out and then starts again and then cut out again. Same thing with just throttling with the throttle connected to the CA. If I plug my throttle directly into the controller I get normal throttle function. Could someone look at my settings at tell me where i might of gone wrong? I have peddle detection and the system was putting out steady power until recently. I included a plot of the throttle from PR suite too as just using the throttle with the CA produced the effect which I graphed.
Thank you for any help,
Attachments
Phaserunner Plot.txt
(4.16 KiB) Downloaded 42 times
setupPAS.ThO.AuxInput.hex.txt
use txt extension for file attachment
(1.33 KiB) Downloaded 49 times

Killer-B   1 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Killer-B » Oct 30 2018 8:55pm

Hi there
Just a guess but if your getting the S flag that should meant that your speed limiting is in play. Check your set speed settings and adjust accordingly.
everyday commuter is a khs with 1000w front hub 40amp grin controller 16s4p
trail bike is a Norco with qs 205 5t with 120 amp Kelly controller 20s5p
first build rear 1000w Giant with grin 40 amp and 14s8s
newest is custom frame qs205 5t in moto rim and shiko d/p with Kelly 120amp and 20p5s +20s5p

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Tom on 101   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Tom on 101 » Oct 31 2018 11:27am

Killer-B wrote:
Oct 30 2018 8:55pm
Hi there
Just a guess but if your getting the S flag that should meant that your speed limiting is in play. Check your set speed settings and adjust accordingly.
Yes your right the capital S indicates speed limiting but why? I have no speed limiting set on the profile so its strange to see that flag.

EDIT/UPDATE:

Improperly configured speedometer. The MG310 has an internal speedometer (which is the white wire from the Higo 9 pin) and that needed to be connected to the CA to read the speed correctly. The CA was reading the speedometer signal from the PR.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Nov 03 2018 12:31am

teklektik wrote:
Oct 16 2018 4:10pm
teklektik wrote:
Oct 14 2018 10:18am
eem29 wrote:
Oct 13 2018 6:51pm
...nothing happens when im paddling
I will PM you with repaired firmware this week that will address this issue and we will fold the repair into the upcoming 3.13 release.
hey eem29!
In case you're not getting PM notifications, I sent you an alpha version of 3.13 to try. This should fix the problem you uncovered and a bunch of other minor bugs. Post back with results. :)
Hi, could you shoot me the same fix? I have a very similar issue (Also trying to get PAS to work with a large shunt in high power calibration mode) as I mentioned in an earlier post on high power setup My Pas also did not respond if i set it via software cable, but it did seem to work if i set it to high calibration on the device. But instead i get a more complex bug where pas works fine if i go from not pedaling to peddling, but if i engage the break or change the power limit for pas via switch the rampup is super slow, like .1V/s. Changing the PAS throttle voltage rate has no effect on this. If i set PAS throttle to 10V/s when i start pedaling the bike tries to wheely and kill me. But if i apply break and then peddle the throttle out (i look at the throttle in out window to debug this) ramps up at .1V/s. Long story short I'm hoping its a related bug and perhaps your fix would apply to my issue as well. Here is my setting file https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmHyrxxOO3jpgYYFsoqTXa9HDUohXA
Thanks!

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